MUDs also have their own strengths and weaknesses. The specifics of that are not in dispute, but one of the key advantages of TTRPGs is that a human can judge the action, therefore any player can attempt any action he can imagine, and the DM can judge it. Games limited by computer programs can only allow the actions programmed into it.
Until we can program a judge, of course. ;-)
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...I hate that. Do not abuse to PC glow to screw over the party.An NPC that adventures with the party should not know all the command words to avoid the traps. If they do, the other adventurers should rightly assume that they are a plant put there by the enemy.Agreed.
And then there are those times when a Player's PC IS a plant put there by the enemy.
Can you rephrase that?
Just to clarify on my end, I'm talking about when a normal player is a working for the enemy without the knowledge of anyone except himself and the GM.
PCs tend to get a lot of leeway that isn't extended to NPCs. You meet them randomly and bring them along on the quest. A lot of their quirks get overlooked because you all know out of character that if Bob's going to play in the game, Bob's character needs to come along with the party.
It's a party based game. It's metagaming, but it's necessary to a point.Having a PC be a secret bad guy is abusing that trust.
Now, if it's an open PvP game, where it's acknowledged ahead of time that all the PCs are going to have their own, probably conflicting agendas and it's perfectly fine to reject PCs or to have them go off and do their own thing, that's a different story, but that's not the usual PF game. In Amber, for example, it's perfectly normal - though it's more likely the enemy will be working for one of you than vice versa.
What do you mean by 'open PvP'? PvP in general certainly isn't something I would encourage in a group, but I view characters independent people with their own goals and motivations and such.
If a character happens to be working for the other side [say for example when I once played the Sith Apprentice masking his nature in a Starwars Saga game during the era of the Rule of Two, who manipulated the party into helping me kill off my master so as to become the new Sith Lord, or when I
What is this contact?
Where is this contact?
I didn't sign it.
Lawfuls again trying to make everyone play the same, and according to their rules on behaviour, tsk tsk tsk.
What it leads to, IME, if applied enough, is players not being willing to accept new characters into the group. Why should they? Part of the tacit contract is "this character is a PC, he's not going to just screw us over". Without that, it's much harder to justify bringing the next randomly encountered appropriately levelled stranger along with you.
And I'm curious how you work "PC working for the bad guy" with "no PvP". What happens if they figure it out? Or when you finally betray them?
This is why I asked what you meant by 'Open PvP.'
While PvP between the party is something I'd never actively encourage, if it happens then it happens. We do our best to resolve it fairly and deal with the consequences and aftermath thereafter.
As for 'this character is a PC, he's not going to just screw us over,' that's NEVER been an assumption of any of my characters. Why the hell should I just hand over my trust to someone I don't know? Unless I have a shared backstory with said person the relationship between our characters will develop organically over time, going from distrust, to neutrality, to trust. If said person doesn't deserve my trust, then they are either going to prove it in a timely manner or successfully deceive me based on their roleplay.
As to adding a new member to the party, the level of distrust depends upon the circumstances in which we meet. I'm certainly not going to mean 'You seem trustworthy' to someone I'm meeting just outside the enemy's stronghold, though I might say it.
...And I'm curious how you work "PC working for the bad guy" with "no PvP". What happens if they figure it out? Or when you finally betray them?The PCs can have conflicting goals while still having little or no reason to actually attack each other.There's a long distance between "PCs have conflicting goals" and "a Player's PC IS a plant put there by the enemy."
It's really hard to see how that's not going to lead
I allow pvp, but I think pvp-on games will get you shunned by some. There is some great opportunities within them though, and they inspire a lot of feeling and later retelling - and it doesn't have to lead to friendship break-ups or real arguments.
One of the most memorable gaming scenes involved the party splitting, one going evil unifier and the other standing for what was right to defend the innocent. It was in apocalyptic Isger, the heavy snow of winter was coming in. A player, his dmpc and a few near-innocents they were trying to protect stood against a player and his large band of soldiers now following his lawful evil ways. It was a great battle, so many died in the snow. Evil was defeated, but spared. Both players survived but the evil pc lost his power base and ended up dying chasing bandits later.
Everyone knew pvp was on, and they roleplayed their characters. One went the path of evil, ready to kill people for political gain, and the other stood up to him.
Pvp can be on, but make it meaningful.
I have never used Point Buy to build a character and never will.
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I like D&D 5e.
Isn't it crazy, that across the gaming community, that people are expect to either hate 5e, or pathfinder- Why not love them both??
I personally, liked FAR MORE about the 5e PHB, than I didn't. Don't want to get into an "additions war", but yeah, there was some good stuff there. Also for me personally, my issue is with what came after. A lackluster DMG, and MM- and then, nothing substantial.
What will always put me in the Paizo camp, while still looking forward for more from 5e, is the overwhelming creativity of Pazio- a game made by very talented fans, for fans.
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I personally, liked FAR MORE about the 5e PHB, than I didn't. Don't want to get into an "additions war", but yeah, there was some good stuff there. Also for me personally, my issue is with what came after. A lackluster DMG, and MM- and then, nothing substantial.
Lackluster MM for 5e? Man, that thing's refreshing my inspiration for quite a few monsters in ways that no other WotC-era MM has. I'm really liking that book.
Lackluster MM for 5e? Man, that thing's refreshing my inspiration for quite a few monsters in ways that no other WotC-era MM has. I'm really liking that book.
I personally, liked FAR MORE about the 5e PHB, than I didn't. Don't want to get into an "additions war", but yeah, there was some good stuff there. Also for me personally, my issue is with what came after. A lackluster DMG, and MM- and then, nothing substantial.
It's awesome you're enjoying it. :)
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I loathe the idea of GMPCs.I don't know if that will get you shunned - based on the current thread, it's looking about 50/50. ^_^It'll get her shunned by one half of the group.
Check the title of the thread, it's shunned by "members of the community" not the "majority of the community". I'm sure every post I make generates another person who puts me on their shun list.
I did. It's "Confessions That Will Get You Shunned By The Members Of The Paizo Community".
The phrasing does imply a majority of the community (at least to my reading). ^_^
I like 4e. I am not saying that it is the best edition, just that I do enjoy it.
To be honest, it does not take much to receive a crap-storm of "shunned" on these forums. I couldn't even guess at a proper ratio. The loudest, always seemed to get counted twice.
I like 4e. I am not saying that it is the best edition, just that I do enjoy it.
"OH NO HE DIDN'T..."
One thing I'll give 4th, it was the first time anyone thought of rituals- that was cool. Since I don't have much stomach for "shunning" fellow gamers for liking something, I'll not comment on the rest of my opinions on 4e. :)
I have not read through the whole thread, so this may be a repeat of someone else, but I refuse to play Evil characters or play in a group where there are Evil PCs.
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I like 4e. I am not saying that it is the best edition, just that I do enjoy it."OH NO HE DIDN'T..."
One thing I'll give 4th, it was the first time anyone thought of rituals- that was cool. Since I don't have much stomach for "shunning" fellow gamers for liking something, I'll not comment on the rest of my opinions on 4e. :)
I started pushing the idea of "ritual magic" for Pathfinder in my experimental Serpent's Skull campaign, since I wanted a way to encourage player creativity and allow things that there wasn't a precise rules element for.
For example, one of the PCs, a Calistrian native of the Expanse, is in a relationship with one of the NPCs. She's afflicted with semi-controlled wereleopard lycanthropy. I hinted at a ritual they could perform that would "change her spirit animal", causing her to become a werewasp.
I hate when players stop mid game or hold up a game because Star Trek is on...We used to do this constantly.
I probably would have pulled my hair out but that's okay, I know there a lot of fans out there that would probably pull their hair out because I am not a trekkie or trekker.
Another confession; I have a severe dislike of all things mmorpg. Button clicking and uber optimizing stats to be the ultimate cross class xy and z has zero appeal to me. I prefer the social aspect of rpg's with pencil, paper, dice rolls........ has to yell at some kids to get off my lawn.
I like 4e. I am not saying that it is the best edition, just that I do enjoy it.
I am a huge fan of the dynamic movement of 4e, even if i think its a dud. The ability to push, pull, slide or shunt opponents or yourself while doing damage or other good moves (not just a waste of an action like reposition or push or pull in pf) is really interesting. So 4es got that at least.
Another confession; I have a severe dislike of all things mmorpg. Button clicking and uber optimizing stats to be the ultimate cross class xy and z has zero appeal to me. I prefer the social aspect of rpg's with pencil, paper, dice rolls........ has to yell at some kids to get off my lawn.
When I used to play MMORPGs, I never optimized. In Ragnarok online (where I first used this name), I put stat points into each stat when everybody else said Strength and Stamina only. In vanilla WoW, I used a hybrid talent approach on my Paladin ("hardcore" players would rant about how bad that was).
I spent alot of time socializing and helping new players.
I guess what I'm saying is, it's not the MMORPG, it's the choice of the players.
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MMO communities are usually pretty terrible though.
This is fresh in my mind right now as, after having not tried an MMO for about 5 years, I downloaded Tera.
A game with a community so full of griefers I find it impossible to level past 9th because there appears to be a dedicated cabal of high level characters who repeatedly kill a quest boss under a second after it spawns.
Shame too. Game is pretty fun.
But you can't really choose not to be around that sort.
New confession: sometimes I try not to come off as an insufferable douche when replying to posts I don't agree with.
Confession: I try so hard not to be an insufferable douche that I rarely post on these boards. The URGE is TOO GREAT !
Another confession; I have a severe dislike of all things mmorpg. Button clicking and uber optimizing stats to be the ultimate cross class xy and z has zero appeal to me. I prefer the social aspect of rpg's with pencil, paper, dice rolls........ has to yell at some kids to get off my lawn.When I used to play MMORPGs, I never optimized. In Ragnarok online (where I first used this name), I put stat points into each stat when everybody else said Strength and Stamina only. In vanilla WoW, I used a hybrid talent approach on my Paladin ("hardcore" players would rant about how bad that was).
I spent alot of time socializing and helping new players.
I guess what I'm saying is, it's not the MMORPG, it's the choice of the players.
That's refreshing to know that there is someone out there that doesn't do the uber optimization
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I alter APs before they even start, completely invalidating some of the things that my PCs try to metagame when they start a book!
I will call out metagamers quite viciously!
I actually thought Second Darkness was not THAT BAD of an AP!
I had no problem with Synthesist Summoners!
I prefer gestalt games to regular ones!
I'm a Lovecraft fanboy! Go ahead, break out the "Like, oh my god, that's so aeons ago!", I am not ashamed!
I still use D&D monsters, such as the Mind Flayer, Beholder, ect. in my Pathfinder games!
I play morally complex characters!
I punish rules lawyers, because I'M THE GM, MY SAY IS FINAL! Take your technicalities off my lawn, youngster! Back in AD&D days, GMs did what they wanted!
I REALLY like using exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EDIT: I'm 25, but I have been playing TTRPG's long enough to out-Grognard the older Grognards! TASTE THE HALFLING CHAINSAW NINJA AND THE ELF CLASS!!!
I REALLY like using exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure sign of a diseased mind."
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!EXCLAMATI ON MARKS ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EDIT: :P
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I play morally complex characters!
I punish rules lawyers, because I'M THE GM, MY SAY IS FINAL! Take your technicalities off my lawn, youngster! Back in AD&D days, GMs did what they wanted!
I REALLY like using exclamation marks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*Hugs the red bearded halfling*
"I will never shun you pal!"
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EDIT: I'm 25, but I have been playing TTRPG's long enough to out-Grognard the older Grognards! TASTE THE HALFLING CHAINSAW NINJA AND THE ELF CLASS!!!
That was a deliberate provocation on your part !
I've been a Dungeon Master longer than you have lived !
Get off my lawn, beautifully tended as it is by the various deities of Greyhawk that I have enslaved so many years ago with my original bard class player character :-).
Shun me ! Shun I say !
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Please, I'll tear your OG Bard apart, limb by limb, organ by organ with my pathfinder Halfling Druid :-)
I started playing RPGs 31 years ago but I'm not afraid to say it's way better now, and if it was still like " the good ole days" I would not be playing, I also refuse to play with my sister because she insists on using Mind Flayers and Beholders, I've had enough characters disintegrated or mind raped thank you:-D
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Also the only thing that's kept the Elves from extinction is Dwarves have better things to do, they'll get around to it :-)
Mind Flayers, Beholders and Seugathi are what I refer to as " A&+@!*+ Monsters" by that I mean the GM is an a~~%$*+ if he uses these more then once or includes 3 or more in one encounter :-)
Your mileage may vary :-)
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!EXCLAMATI ON MARKS ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EDIT: :P
I read that in Mr Torgue's voice.
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EDIT: I'm 25, but I have been playing TTRPG's long enough to out-Grognard the older Grognards! TASTE THE HALFLING CHAINSAW NINJA AND THE ELF CLASS!!!
That was a deliberate provocation on your part !
I've been a Dungeon Master longer than you have lived !
Get off my lawn, beautifully tended as it is by the various deities of Greyhawk that I have enslaved so many years ago with my original bard class player character :-).
Shun me ! Shun I say !
No, I will not shun. But I will sit down and reminisce with you.
I have made the arduous pilgrimage to the shrine of Lake Geneva (OK, it wasn't so arduous. I lived in Madison at the time.).
I heaved a sigh and shed a tear when names were removed from spells. May Bigby and Snilloc and especially Tasha (I think Tasha was really a copper dragon in disguise) remain long in our memories.
In my book, Hideous Laughter will always be Tasha's Uncontrollable Hideous Laughter.
Mind Flayers: Tentacle Rape and Mind Rape all in one convenient package.Mind Flayers, Beholders and Seugathi are what I refer to as " A#####* Monsters" by that I mean the GM is an a++$%~$ if he uses these more then once or includes 3 or more in one encounter :-)
Your mileage may vary :-)
Throw in umber hulks, nishruus and rust lords and the painful gauntlet is set.
I unrepently mix genres. There are wormholes/gates between universes, and it is possible to have Jedi Guardians running about Absalom.
I put Iggwilv not only in Reign of Winter, but Wrath of the Righteous as well. She's a grade A classy evil b**** and should be a major NPC in any campaign that can even tangentially include her. Kind of like a hot version of Flemeth from Dragon Age (Also one of my favorite characters!).
I like 4e. I am not saying that it is the best edition, just that I do enjoy it.
Heh, I do think that 4e is the best edition.
I punish rules lawyers, because I'M THE GM, MY SAY IS FINAL! Take your technicalities off my lawn, youngster! Back in AD&D days, GMs did what they wanted!
EDIT: I'm 25, but I have been playing TTRPG's long enough to out-Grognard the older Grognards! TASTE THE HALFLING CHAINSAW NINJA AND THE ELF CLASS!!!
I've been playing D&D longer than you've been alive (by a number of years, in fact)! So YOU get off MY lawn, boy!
