Confessions That Will Get You Shunned By The Members Of The Paizo Community


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ElterAgo wrote:
thejeff wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:

I love it all, combat, RP, building characters, political intrigue, skill challenges...

Except mazes and puzzles. F*** that mess. Let me roll an int check and move on, my 23 int wizard should be able to solve that if I'm too dumb for it.

That much I agree with.

Oh Lordy yes! I am not that great at puzzles most of the time. I really can't understand the point of them either. Yes, I know they are a staple of certain types of fiction. I never understood their inclusion there either. It always seemed like poor storytelling to me.

"Gosh I can't figure out a reason why everyone else didn't kill the monster before this guy showed up. Guess I'll throw another puzzle in there, that's always good to make people miss the hole in the plot."

Riddles are a staple of myths in the real world going back a very, very, VERY long time.


RDM42 wrote:
ElterAgo wrote:
thejeff wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:

I love it all, combat, RP, building characters, political intrigue, skill challenges...

Except mazes and puzzles. F*** that mess. Let me roll an int check and move on, my 23 int wizard should be able to solve that if I'm too dumb for it.

That much I agree with.

Oh Lordy yes! I am not that great at puzzles most of the time. I really can't understand the point of them either. Yes, I know they are a staple of certain types of fiction. I never understood their inclusion there either. It always seemed like poor storytelling to me.

"Gosh I can't figure out a reason why everyone else didn't kill the monster before this guy showed up. Guess I'll throw another puzzle in there, that's always good to make people miss the hole in the plot."

Riddles are a staple of myths in the real world going back a very, very, VERY long time.

That's what I said. I know they are a staple in certain types of fiction. But it almost always seems like a very poor plot device in all those old ones as well. Even more so when you assume magic is available.

Why would the evil mastermind put a puzzle, maze, or riddle controlling his secret escape route? That would just slow him down trying to escape. Especially when you consider he could just use magic that identifies and only opens for him. No puzzle necessary.

Ok, your secret escape tunnel has a set of levers to pull in the correct order or 'dead,' so why would you put a set of levers on the outside coming in? You can walk into your fortress through the front door. If you want to make a stealthy entrance, again there is magic you can use without weakening your security.

Ok, so you have a set of levers on the outside coming in. Why make there be any logical order? It is the key to your whole security. Maybe it would be smarter to make it random and just memorize it.

Ok, you've got the levers and there is a logical order. If someone uses the wrong order, why have it shoot a dart that just might inconvenience someone's great grandmother? It wouldn't even stop a cookie selling girl scout (some of them are damn tenacious).

Yes, occasionally there is an actual reasoning behind them. Like the Egyptian pyramids conglomeration of traps. Their religion has them being buried with riches, can't let others steal them, but they also don't want to be trapped in there forever. AND they don't have magic to take care of it.

And occasionally you could have some sort of DR Evil that likes to watch the helpless scurry through the death maze. But that particular brand of insanity should be pretty rare (rather than every other bad guy).

Yes, they are a staple. That doesn't mean it makes any sense.


Making a player solve a puzzle can be fun (if the player likes puzzles), but I just have to say that actually making a player solve a puzzle makes about as much sense as actually making a player kick open a real door...

Now, I confess that I likes me some in game puzzles, but I usually make them the sort of puzzles that require the player to have his or her character go around the game world collecting clues to the solution.


If you use "making sense" in the narrative sense as a standard do you realize how many standard fantasy tropes go away?


Nah, I think all the standard tropes "make sense"

...I just have my own idea about what "makes sense"...


RDM42 wrote:

If you use "making sense" in the narrative sense as a standard do you realize how many standard fantasy tropes go away?

It doesn't have to make sense from our non magical world's perspective. Just internal logic would be nice.


I dislike, and have not before, nor will again use the word "homebrew".

It's game/system ideas, not beer.


I get really annoyed over the excessive use of abbreviations instead of typing out the whole word/phrase. Is it that difficult to type it out? I can understand if you're hand writing it, but...

Sovereign Court

ElterAgo wrote:

Yes, occasionally there is an actual reasoning behind them. Like the Egyptian pyramids conglomeration of traps. Their religion has them being buried with riches, can't let others steal them, but they also don't want to be trapped in there forever. AND they don't have magic to take care of it.

And occasionally you could have some sort of DR Evil that likes to watch the helpless scurry through the death maze. But that particular brand of insanity should be pretty rare (rather than every other bad guy).

Yes, they are a staple. That doesn't mean it makes any sense.

I just go with the classic 'tests to prove your worth' thing. Often BBEGs can't be bothered to create their own labyrinth and just set up shop in on of said 'tests to prove your worth' labyrinths.

Shadow Lodge

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

One of the dungeons I made confronted the adventurers with two doors. Behind one was a deathtrap. Behind the other was the tower treasury. The players came across a fairly simple riddle that indicated that the door on the right was the correct one to open.

The door to the right led to the deathtrap -- because the BBEG was not an idiot.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I have it all worked out on how to turn Carrion Crown into Ghostbusters, now I just need the time...


Randarak wrote:
I get really annoyed over the excessive use of abbreviations instead of typing out the whole word/phrase. Is it that difficult to type it out? I can understand if you're hand writing it, but...

Whrn my PCs are all SAD, I'll GMPC a MAD, and MAD makes it not OP for good party balance. Especially when they're up against a strong BBEG or in one of the APs. I cant do this well. Especially not compared to RW:

for ol' times sake:
Seeing as how the V.P. is such a V.I.P., shouldn't we keep the P.C. on the Q.T.? 'Cause if it leaks to the V.C. he could end up M.I.A., and then we'd all be put out in K.P.


Randarak wrote:
I get really annoyed over the excessive use of abbreviations instead of typing out the whole word/phrase. Is it that difficult to type it out? I can understand if you're hand writing it, but...

Anymore I post about 98% of the time from my phone. Abbreviations are a must.


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It just gets to me when I spend more of my time trying to figure out what the Hell the acronyms and abbreviations mean than I do reading the post.


Randarak wrote:
I get really annoyed over the excessive use of abbreviations instead of typing out the whole word/phrase. Is it that difficult to type it out? I can understand if you're hand writing it, but...

If you're going to make a point about people using abbreviations and end it with "is it that difficult to type it out?" you should take care not to undermine your point by using contractions like "you're" (instead of you are) and "word/phrase" (instead of word or phrase).

You really answered your own question there.


I don't see that was the same thing, seeing as the contractions are accepted use of the English language, and I don't have to do research every time they are used to figure out what they mean.

Shadow Lodge

But is it that difficult to type it all out? :P


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So shun me, hence the point of the thread...


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The research is the bigger part of the problem; not everyone frequents the boards (or other boards) enough to know what all the abbreviations and terms are. If so, we wouldn't have the story of how the mighty Stormwind Fallacy got its name.

Some terms have migrated from online games, for example. It took a while before I understood what people were babbling about when they talked about aggro as I don't frequent those sorts of boards.


Randarak wrote:
I don't see that was the same thing, seeing as the contractions are accepted use of the English language, and I don't have to do research every time they are used to figure out what they mean.

Abbreviations (or more accurately, acronyms) are an accepted part of ANY language.

Do you say:

"I'm calling the Federal Bureau of Investigation!"

or

"I'm calling the FBI!"

Same with ATM, PIN, etc.

Even more so with the advent of the internet. I understand being annoyed at the more esoteric ones, but extremely common ones like IMO should be instantly translated by most people, and at worst all it takes is looking it up once. At which point it speeds up the typing process considerably, especially for people who are slow typers, are typing long messages, or who are posting from a phone (or any combination of the above).

Shadow Lodge

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knightnday wrote:
The research is the bigger part of the problem; not everyone frequents the boards (or other boards) enough to know what all the abbreviations and terms are.

I spend a fair amount of time on the boards, and I occasionally run into abbreviations that I have to assume the poster pulled out of the ass-end of nowhere, because I don't have a clue what they mean.


ElterAgo wrote:
RDM42 wrote:
ElterAgo wrote:
thejeff wrote:
thegreenteagamer wrote:

I love it all, combat, RP, building characters, political intrigue, skill challenges...

Except mazes and puzzles. F*** that mess. Let me roll an int check and move on, my 23 int wizard should be able to solve that if I'm too dumb for it.

That much I agree with.

Oh Lordy yes! I am not that great at puzzles most of the time. I really can't understand the point of them either. Yes, I know they are a staple of certain types of fiction. I never understood their inclusion there either. It always seemed like poor storytelling to me.

"Gosh I can't figure out a reason why everyone else didn't kill the monster before this guy showed up. Guess I'll throw another puzzle in there, that's always good to make people miss the hole in the plot."

Riddles are a staple of myths in the real world going back a very, very, VERY long time.

That's what I said. I know they are a staple in certain types of fiction. But it almost always seems like a very poor plot device in all those old ones as well. Even more so when you assume magic is available.

Why would the evil mastermind put a puzzle, maze, or riddle controlling his secret escape route? That would just slow him down trying to escape. Especially when you consider he could just use magic that identifies and only opens for him. No puzzle necessary.

Ok, your secret escape tunnel has a set of levers to pull in the correct order or 'dead,' so why would you put a set of levers on the outside coming in? You can walk into your fortress through the front door. If you want to make a stealthy entrance, again there is magic you can use without weakening your security.

Ok, so you have a set of levers on the outside coming in. Why make there be any logical order? It is the key to your whole security. Maybe it would be smarter to make it random and just memorize it.

Ok, you've got the levers and there is a logical order. If someone uses the wrong order,...

Consider LOTR, the riddle above the door to Moria. It was intended to allow allies a way into Moria without requiring the dwarves to share the password with each individual. It was also made in light pf the elves culture and abilities. It even stumped Gandalf.

There are occassional puzzles that make sense, and the bbeg isn't always the one who made it.


If the GM(Game Master) is going to RP(Role Play) a Sphinx, keep in mind that they love riddles.

When I GM, a Sphinx can answer any question, but only in the form of a riddle. They don't know the answer till they get someone to solve it.
Likewise, Djinn can't grant their own wishes.
Otherwise, they would have power beyond their CR(Challenge Rating).


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This is starting to sound like "dang puzzles gettin in da way of mah killin stuff".


Simon Legrande wrote:
This is starting to sound like "dang puzzles gettin in da way of mah killin stuff".

Only if you insist on reading it that way.

Not everybody finds puzzles fun. I sure don't. I like a good riddle (a GOOD riddle mind you, none of those obtuse b+%+~~&* riddles you can literally only guess if you already know the answer like what's in the Hobbit) every now and then, but I've never been a big fan of purely mental puzzles.


I love puzzles in real life. However, I find that puzzles in RPGs bring me out of character, because it is me solving the puzzle, independent of my character solving it. The 4e DMG makes this observation explicitly in its introduction to using puzzles in a campaign:

4e DMG, pg 81 wrote:
Puzzles in a D&D game present a unique form of challenge, one that tests the capabilities of the players at the table instead of their characters. Combat is a tactical challenge for the players, and many traps and skill challenges present puzzlelike elements, but they also involve plenty of die rolling to represent the characters’ abilities. A puzzle, generally speaking, does not.

Riddles, on the other hand, seem out of place in a world with accurate divination magic. In Greek myths, the only form of divination came from prophecies which were themselves riddles (or were delivered by a prophetess who was cursed to never be believed). Occasionally a god would explain events in hindsight (such as Artemis in Euripides' Hippolytus.) Or, a god might make a non-prophetic prediction based on their knowledge (e.g., Athena reassuring Odysseus that he can defeat the suitors with her help, even though she does really know how the story will end until after the suitors are dead, when Zeus 'suggests' that she resolve in a particular fashion).

But in general, divination in classical mythology was as misleading as it was helpful. When the sphinx asks a riddle, it takes a clever Oedipus to answer. In Sophocles' Oedipus Rex, however, Oedipus angrily complains that Tiresias is prophesying in riddles (to which Tiresias scoffs "When it comes to riddles, are you not the best there is?")

If the sphinx attacked in a D&D game, it would end much faster and with little drama. Someone would just cast a few divination spells and get the answer to the riddle before Oedipus even arrived in Thebes.


Simon Legrande wrote:
This is starting to sound like "dang puzzles gettin in da way of mah killin stuff".

There's always the "The Riddle of Steel" for that.


I once started trying to design a dungeon for Pony finder.

First encounter: A Sphinx living at the fork in the road.
"To reach the dungeon you must follow the right path."
The right path leads to the dungeon entrance. The left path leads back to town.

Community Manager

Locking thread. This has gotten far too mean-spirited and against the intention of these forums—please revisit the Community Guidelines.

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