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Humans are mechanically better than many of the "exotic" races, and if you look at optimized character builds, they often use humans because no negatives and the bonus feat.
I was in a game where the DM wanted us to make custom races using the Advanced Races Guide and 20 race points. We came up with some very interesting things. I had a race loosely based off the tengu, it's a race of vultures that were given humanoid bodies and intelligence by Pharasma for the purpose of hunting undead. I called it the Tuiju. For my wife's character, I made an enhanced race of Grippli called "Bull Grippli". Uses swim speed, climb speed, camouflage, natural poison, and it's amphibious. Neither races are particularly game-breaking, and I'm fairly proud of both.
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'Lots' is not the same as 'all'.Although Saxophones don't exist in Golarion (although you could grab one from Earth!),
Humans, Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, Halflings, Tieflings, Aasimar, Dhampir, Half-orcs, Half-elves, Changelings, Tengu, Samsarans, Nagaji, Kitsune, Svirneblin, Gillmen, Merfolk, Skinwalkers, Lashunta, Ghoram, Syrinx, Strix, Undines, Fetchlings, Suli, Ifrit, Oreads, Sylphs, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Vanara, Grippli, Wayangs, and Vishkanya. Plus mostly enemy races such as Kuru, Goblins, Monkey-Goblins, Hobgoblins, Orcs, Drow, Kobolds, and Duergar all do exist.
Which is to say that you can have a setting with lots of races which doesn't automatically break.
Nope, but it's obvious that Golarion can maintain consistency with the diversity above. My guess is that most home-brewed settings can as well. That's not saying that all campaigns are good fits for all races, or that some races might require more explanation than others. But you can certainly game in worlds that have more than core and enemy races.
Humans are mechanically better than many of the "exotic" races, and if you look at optimized character builds, they often use humans because no negatives and the bonus feat.
I was in a game where the DM wanted us to make custom races using the Advanced Races Guide and 20 race points. We came up with some very interesting things. I had a race loosely based off the tengu, it's a race of vultures that were given humanoid bodies and intelligence by Pharasma for the purpose of hunting undead. I called it the Tuiju. For my wife's character, I made an enhanced race of Grippli called "Bull Grippli". Uses swim speed, climb speed, camouflage, natural poison, and it's amphibious. Neither races are particularly game-breaking, and I'm fairly proud of both.
first of all, that is a TERRIBLE font to write a continuous text in. It looks nice on its own, and surely makes pretty headlines, but it's too hard to read and discourages reading in a longer piece of writing.
Second, i completely agree with you, and i think that race is really cool.
It is a public game at my local game store, I decided to take over because the owner of the store who was our DM had a lot going on because he was.. well, running a store. On top of that the group had accumulated so much wealth that balancing encounters was nigh impossible and after a couple of encounters where it was deus ex machina by the DM or a TPK, I offered to take over. We voted that we didn't want PFS, but thanks for the advice.
You know, I think in that context, you're probably better off saying "You bought it? OK, let me review the content you want to use and we'll use it." After all, your game is there to support the store's operations and you should probably support that by validating the utility of the purchases as soon as you can.
That said, there's nothing wrong with holding a go-slow, incremental policy on the new content. If he's got the Ultimate Race Guide, hold him to races already given full stats until you are comfortable with doing the custom build yourself. That's a compromise - he gets to benefit from his new book but in a relatively contained way that shouldn't drive you too nuts.
With the new Reaper Kickstarter, anyone else thinking about in a year to have a mouseling or a bugbear and gnoll campaign?
It is a public game at my local game store, I decided to take over because the owner of the store who was our DM had a lot going on because he was.. well, running a store. On top of that the group had accumulated so much wealth that balancing encounters was nigh impossible and after a couple of encounters where it was deus ex machina by the DM or a TPK, I offered to take over. We voted that we didn't want PFS, but thanks for the advice.You know, I think in that context, you're probably better off saying "You bought it? OK, let me review the content you want to use and we'll use it." After all, your game is there to support the store's operations and you should probably support that by validating the utility of the purchases as soon as you can.
That said, there's nothing wrong with holding a go-slow, incremental policy on the new content. If he's got the Ultimate Race Guide, hold him to races already given full stats until you are comfortable with doing the custom build yourself. That's a compromise - he gets to benefit from his new book but in a relatively contained way that shouldn't drive you too nuts.
For the most part, I'll allow anything that comes from the player's materials.
But template races from the Bestiary or the monster section of the CRB, and the race builder I feel are DM tools, and not player tools, but I have players fighting with me about this, they feel they are entitled to anything out of any book they can find.|
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I have played the token evil character in the Second Darkness AP. It was a LE monk, the type that is angry at the world for the way his lot in life had ended up, exiled from his homeland, and ending up in Riddleport practically pennyless.
There was no problem ever in the group other than some banter back and forth about how my choices seemed harsh, but all the pc's knew that I was loyal and had their back. so they let my brutality slide a few times. Of course, they all knew that my entire character arc was to finally accept myself and my fate, forgive those that had wronged me, and change from LE to LN.
It worked out great and is the most memorable of the AP's I have played to date.
(of course, I am a very experienced player, I know how to RP, and like I said, the players knew that they were not going to experience the evil of character wealth being stolen or being stabbed in the back.)
There was this battle in the underdark where we fought this duelist type drow noble. I dropped him down a pit (possibly bottomles) after knocking him unconcious.
I will always remember one of the players screaming out at the table... "Oh my GOD!!! His Loot!"
in character I simply said, "and you think I am nasty greedy bastard...?"
Makes me laugh everytime I think of it.
For the most part, I'll allow anything that comes from the player's materials.
But template races from the Bestiary or the monster section of the CRB, and the race builder I feel are DM tools, and not player tools, but I have players fighting with me about this, they feel they are entitled to anything out of any book they can find.
HAHAH! What a troll!
In fact, you should do that. Let him play a troll. Or just give him trollish regeneration.
Then run an entire adventure with Red, Green, and Black Ancient Dragons coming after the guy. See, these dragons have customized gear and loot, and they specialize in controlling oozes (you know: the acidic kind) and fire elementals with those magic items that don't work for any creature except dragons of their kind with their name, alignment, and goals.
Oh, and disintegrate and various other save-or-suck effects. They have those at will due to the afore-mentioned magic items.
Oh! They have mythic tiers and mythic templates.
And! And! And! They have templates! Lots of them!
Plus a constant Haste effect, and Time Stop at will (the mythic version, naturally, giving them twenty-four hours per round per day).
Or, you know, just a host of Solars, Balors, or Pit Fiends (choose any one) who all hate his character for <insert reason here>.
Or, heck, if you want something more in character, just choose Aeons. All of them. They've decided that he has to cease to exist for some reason. You don't even need to give it, or if you do, it doesn't need to make sense or sound sane. "The balance requires" is all you ever need to give. Also, spend all of their wealth on overly-specialized equipment that only works for Aeons and curses anything other than an Aeon (or maybe just whatever kind of creature he ends up with) that tries to pick up, touch, or use it into a harmless lawful good 1 HD puppy forever with no save and no way to revert back to his previous existence outside of direct divine intervention. Which won't happen, because, "Divine Reasons".
Now, that said, if your whole table wants a really high powered game, I'd say just give it a go. Let them go crazy, choose some monsters (or whatever you collectively agree on) and run the single one-shot adventure. It probably won't last long, but it'll likely be memorable and may even be fun.
Alternatively, you can simply say, "Alright, guys, let's build a one-shot adventure together: what do each of you want, and what do you want from it? I want to know what reasonable limits we all agree to, and what we want to play together." Put the onus on your players to help you out. Get them to come to something of a consensus. If you can't use what they want to create together, explain that you can't do it. After you get some feedback, tweak it with them. Then begin running. Running what? It doesn't matter. Just run it and have fun with it.
Leave the one-shot open to becoming a campaign, if everyone likes it (and you're not sick of it). Or have revolving GMs. Perhaps even for the same campaign world.
Really, what it sounds like, above all, is a failure to have a cohesive social contract. Make one, get organized with yourselves, and arbitrate just a bit.
That, I think, should help most of your problems.
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I have no idea if I insulted anyone, (I didn't see the deleted posts) but let me be clear: I, as a GM, am all about empowering my players.
I give templates.
I let them pick classes from most books most of the time.
I let them craft custom items.
In exchange, they generally (at least usually) go along with whatever plot. We all have fun and most everyone wins.
If people start breaking the social contract, however, we start to have interventions and talks.
I have "booted" only one person out of my table, ever. And it was less "I booted", and more "the entire group without really talking about it before hand, escorted him out of the table and back into the store beyond" because he was actively interfering with everyone else's fun.
I'm not against giving players fun things, big things, or monsters to play with.
What I am against is a player pushing the GM into giving stuff.
Similarly, I'm against a GM (in most cases) actively harming a player.
In truth, when a conflict arises, I talk to people excessively first, or at least I try. My previous post, above the "ooc" text, was mostly in jest.
However, if a player insists on breaking the social contract (and I've had more than one) it tends to balance things out. And Pathfinder specifically empowers GMs by citing that master_marshmallow is right about templates and things, as I recall. I don't like the way it was put, but it's pretty much what's written there.
Due to that, I'm against a player using the, "I found it here, thus I should be allowed to use it." kind of badgering and entitlement.
I'm also against general GM entitlement and abuse of power.
Let's just say I'm against entitlement and for fun for all. And fun for all generally comes when you have a good social contract you all agree to. In many cases, it forms without the need to clarify or speak it. In some cases, however, as mm's seems to be, it needs more clarification.
we have so many races for minmaxing casters
to make a martial minmax race with the Race Builder, draws so much negative attention from the people on these boards, but we allow it all the time with Casters.
Grugach (Wood Elves}
+2 Strength +2 Dexterity -2 Charisma, Wood Elves are Stronger and Hardier than most Elves due to the harsh lifestyle of the intense heat of the Southern Rainforests. learning to toughen their bodies to adapt. the harshness of the desert leaves many Wood Elves with a Gruff and Harsh Attitude and Crude Disposition
Darkvision; due to the darkness of the jungles, provided by intense foilage that blocks the sun, Wood Elves have adapted a greater level of Photosensitivity than most elves. granting them darkvision out to 60 feet, however a wood elf is dazzled in bright light
Woodsman's Weapon Familiarity; Wood Elves, like any other race, depend on firewood for warmth at night, and to cook their food, and wood to construct their shelters, they use the bow for silent and stealthy hunting. a Wood Elf Recieves Proficiency with the Handaxe, Machete (Treat as scimitar) Shortbow (including composite shortbow) and longbow (including composite longbow) in addition, a Wood Elf treats all Weapons with "Elven" in their name as a martial weapon
Silent Hunter; a Wood Elf Reduces the penalty for moving at her full speed while using the stealth skill by 5. allowing her to move at her full speed while using stealth without penalty and run while using the stealth skill at a -20 penalty. (already factoring this reduction)
Child of the Moon; a Wood Elf Recieves a +2 Racial Bonus on Will Saving Throws and an Perception Checks.
Normal Speed; a Wood Elf has a base land speed of 30 feet
Medium Size; a Wood Elf takes no special bonuses or penalties due to her size
Elven Blood; a Wood Elf counts as an Elf for all effects and prerequisites pertaining to race.
Languages; See the Elf.
this Race, was Inspired by the 3.5 Wood Elves and the Pathfinder Night Elves; Hence +2 Strength +2 Dexterity -2 Charisma, and both are known for being nocturnal, revering the Moon, and Revering Jaguars. it was toned down from it's original incarnation.
lotsa people are like, "Don't Wood Elves as a Tree for it's Wood Politely and the Tree Happily Obliges?" My answer, like the ones for Druids, is that for a Wood Elf or Druid to do that with reliability, they have to be pretty high level, most low level Wood Elves, just like low level druids, have to cut their trees and underbrush, and kill their hunted game the old fashioned human way. in fact, to them, it's more about moderation, and the requirement of using what they can of what they kill, or trading what they can't use, to someone who can use it for something they can.
kill too big a bison to eat on your own? trade the excess from the bison for something useful of similar value, such as a similar value's worth of alchemical medicines, or some extra ammunition, minor favors or even discounted repairs.
I am curious house a tropical rainforest leads to elves being toughened by the desert.
Edit : Also, having chopped wood in a semi-tropical environment (Louisiana swamp) I can tell you right now, you are not chopping trees up or down with a hand axe. You can swing all day and all you'll have are torn up muscles. Too much water in the wood, makes it springy. You need something heavy and very sharp to really bite into the wood (battle axe big and sharp).
I remember seeing a documentary one time where the natives burned a tree at the base to dry it out and weaken it (kill it) and then came back later to cut it down, then let it dry out for a long time before cutting it up.
I am curious house a tropical rainforest leads to elves being toughened by the desert.
Edit : Also, having chopped wood in a semi-tropical environment (Louisiana swamp) I can tell you right now, you are not chopping trees up or down with a hand axe. You can swing all day and all you'll have are torn up muscles. Too much water in the wood, makes it springy. You need something heavy and very sharp to really bite into the wood (battle axe big and sharp).
I remember seeing a documentary one time where the natives burned a tree at the base to dry it out and weaken it (kill it) and then came back later to cut it down, then let it dry out for a long time before cutting it up.
Desert is a typo. Sorry, meant to Say Rainforest.
Is it sad I locked onto this whole spiel because I was looking to see if Saxophones were legitimate wind instruments?
It wasn't even for a bard. It was for my Aasimar Paladin of Milani. Just... you know. Cause the concept of a Pali-Sax-Solo sounded like it would be a lot of fun. Or maybe I've been listening to way too much big band music lately. :C
[Edit] I am going to go with bagpipes instead I guess. :p
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So, people will remember that, personally-speaking, I'm a very human-centric guy. As a player, my favorite campaigns have been all-human. I don't like dwarves and half-orcs, much less kitsune -- but again, I understand my preferences aren't universal. So in my soon-to-restart PBP game, 5 players, we have a goblin, two dwarves, a hobgoblin, a halfling, and one player joining in... as a lizardfolk. Punishment for my earlier comments! But guess what? It'll still work, and I still intend to make a great game out of it -- for me as well as for the players. I'd much rather people play what they want than cry over "realism" or "setting purity" or whatever.
If the race isn't overpowered, and it fits in with the campaign setting, then I'd allow it ... so the campaign setting is the main limiting factor.
Holy necro, also.... Oh no!!!!
Graaaaaaaaaaaaar!!!1
Add the pseudonatural and the ghoul templates to the ex-wife, and you're getting closer.
It has returned form the dead to take over the worl- oh, holy craaaaaap! *its head rolls off the side of the screen*
Did we really have to necro the thread where people think humans are so weak that they need yet another feat at first level? :(