Half Orc Scarred Witch Doctor?
Hell Yeah! makes more sense than a Human, Aasimaar or Half Elf Scarred Witch Doctor
Half Elf Treesinger? makes more sense than a human one
actually, i'd rather that the racial archetypes and racial feats be background restricted than race restricted
Glad to see it's official now, so I don't have to rely solely on houserules.
Okay, so who wants to talk about exotic race antipathy?
Nope, I love me some exotic races.
What's the opposite of antipathy? We need to make a thread about how awesome exotic races are.
Or we could make a thread about Core Race Antipathy. Misanthropy thread is optional but also very appreciated.
Misgnomopy?
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Misgnomopy?
that's a misgnomer. It would be Misgnomy.
Yeah, we need to make an "Exotic Race Empathy" thread and a "Core Race Antipathy" thread.
While we don't necessarily ban a lot of races, it is made clear that in certain campaigns you are asking for trouble playing what many might consider monsters (goblins, gnolls, bugbears, hobgoblins, full orcs, minotaur, lizard men, etc.)
Outside of cosmopolitan areas, like the frontiers where dungeons tend to be, the locals tend to react badly when such ride into town and are usually reaching for torches and pitchforks long before the party can sweet talk them into believing they are friendly.
That isn't to say that folks haven't played such in the past successfully, just that it makes things harder because we incorporate racism and a degree of realistic views into the game. Yes, the people in the tiny town that have been raided every day for months by orcs are not thrilled to see the party half-orc, let alone worse.
As far as outright banning, usually that falls for drow (every since early editions of AD&D) and the truly exotic things. Our players looked through the ARG and gave a "Um, probably not" to the Wayangs (deemed "weird") and some raised eyebrows at the Vanaras, Strix, Nagaji (though all three were given a "well, maybe in the right setting.."), and many of the made up creations in the back were outright said no to.
i'm fine with the following Races on my General Acceptance list for PCs
Humans
Half-Elves
Half-Orcs
Elves
Samsaran*
Aasimaar* (including variant heritages)
Tiefling* (including variant heritages)
Suli*
Fetchling*
Undine*
Sylph*
Ifrit*
Oread*
Changeling*
Dhampir*
Orcs
Nekomimi/Nekomata* (Reskinned catfolk)
Tengu (Renamed Karasu)
Kitsune*
Drow
Dwarves
Goblins
Hobgoblins
Kobolds
Nagaji
Halflings
Ratfolk
Merfolk
Strix
* = if able to pass as sufficiently human to be allowed in most settlements without too much a hassle
Wayangs, they look too much like creepy East Asian Dolls, and not the cute kind of creepy you see in the Ring, but the lifelike Circus Clown painting staring your eyes in the bathroom while you sit on the toilet Kind
Gnomes, there is no way anyone can take this race seriously, and no way they can be played seriously that i have witnessed, they are little more than a walking joke played by immature players who think they can be funny
Svirfneblin, creepy lawn ornament gnomes that stare you in the same way as a Wayang, ever had to deal with a lifelike painting of a Circus Clown in the bathroom, that looked like it was staring you down while you were sitting on the toilet? it's a horrifying experience, i dealt with it.
Halflings, not as bad as gnomes, but as a frequent player of young female characters, halflings are too youthful even for me, i don't play toddlers. when it comes to playing young characters, the youngest PC i will play, is around the age of 10 or so. which would be medium size barely. i might make an exception for certain races, such as elves that could pass for 8 or 9, if the setting allows elves to work and marry at that young an age, such as our own world's medieval history. which deemed 10 the legal age of marriage and labor, in a world where children grew up a lot faster
Goblins; walking looney toons, i swear they will break out the ACME gadgets at any point. like gnomes, they are a joke.
Goblin Samurai - he rides around on his pony and is constantly biting it. The pony puts up with it because he was a masochist transformed into a pony against his will via magic (basically, Bill Murray's character from Little Shop of Horrors).
No DM has allowed it so far!
The Exotic races, just as Prestige classes, are tools for the GM. As long as they are used that way, I've got no problem.
I must have missed the paragraph in the book where it says that prestige classes are NPC only.
I assume he is referencing that prestige classes are less desirable for PCs than just going straight 20 levels with a base class?
Although I don't think it says anything anywhere about exotic races being GM only. If we were playing in Golarion, than Wayang, Nagaji, Tengu, Samsaran, and Kitsune would be "core" while dwarves, gnomes, and halflings would be exotic.
i'm fine with the following Races on my General Acceptance list for PCs
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
Given your previous posts about people being allowed to play anything, I do think this reply is pretty ironic. Especially saying that gnomes are too silly to play...
When I run a game, pretty much any playable race is allowed.
Of course when I run games, I run 3.5 games not PF. So players might have to deal with racial HD and level adjustments, which ultimately makes almost all of those choices weaker. Oh, and you have to play in a group friendly fashion. So if you want to play a harpy, don't be surprised when you can't use your captivating song ability very often.
If a race has a silly stereotype, change the stereotype. My goblins are insane clown posses like the PF versions. Goblins don't have a wisdom or intelligence penalty, why would I have them act like they do?
Empathy
What's the opposite of antipathy?
No. Sympathy is the opposite of antipathy. Empathy is another concept.
Given your previous posts about people being allowed to play anything, I do think this reply is pretty ironic. Especially saying that gnomes are too silly to play...i'm fine with the following Races on my General Acceptance list for PCs
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **...
just because i have issues with the races doesn't mean i dissallow them.
i'll still play with them or run for them. i'll just need player permission to tweak the campaign setting accordingly.
1] Just because somebody wants to play an unusual race, it doesn't mean that they're "optimizing" or "meta-gaming". Most just do it because they're bored of the core races; elves, humans, dwarves, etc.
2] If people are defining themselves in terms of their race, that's just as bad as "playing your allignment" and are probably poor roleplayers. Of course, this issue could just as easily be due to your own missperceptions about the whole topic.
3] I really don't understand what the issue is. Go back and look at my response to the 1sst issue; playing an exotic race is (9 times our of then) about having fun. I really wouldnt worry too much about it. As long as the Race isnt too Over Powered, you should be fine. And Pathfinder offers a Race creation guide in the Advanced Races book or you can look it up online. I've already used to to create a few Races and plan to continue. I love playing exotic Races but it's nice to go back to the Half-Elf or Human every now and again for me, personally anyway.
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Amen brother, my players get to choose between human, elf, hafling, and dwarf and can only be a fighter, cleric, or magic user.
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Green warrior needs food badly.
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Recently had a problem pertaining to this thread.
I picked up a game after our DM had slaughtered any semblance of fun possible, and after a couple of weeks we decided that we needed a new game because this one is too far down the crapper to salvage.
My players have been excessively whiny about what I'm allowing and not allowing.
Apparently "any paizo race from the CRB, ARG, or the various Blood of x books" is not enough choices for them. I have a player who not only whined and whined to get me to allow Gunslingers, but now is asking me to let him play a Grippli werewolf, and let him have control of it. I have another player who is asking me how many race points he is allowed to have so he can invent his own race to maximize his character concept.
For real, does any other DM out there have to listen to a speech about "I bought this book, therefor I should be allowed to use anything in it" from their players?
Personally, I think my players are just spoiled, granted the "get off my lawn" players that I have are not causing this problem, it's the 'newbies' who have only experienced the game from one side of the table and only see the game from that side's perspective.
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Most of the time, its completely unnecessary to have multiple races in an RPG because player play them all EXACTLY THE SAME. Now, sure there are occasional times where playing a different race may come in handy, like a dwarf being able to be a liaison between the party and a dwarven clan, but that itself doesn't really make it worth it.
The fact is that most of the time players only choose a special race because they want the bonuses that come with it.
Here's why we should have a mechanic for giving each PC cultural diversity instead of racial diversity that all end up being exactly the same: http://stovebanana.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/only-one-race-in-fantasy-rpgs/
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Most of the time, its completely unnecessary to have multiple races in an RPG because player play them all EXACTLY THE SAME. Now, sure there are occasional times where playing a different race may come in handy, like a dwarf being able to be a liaison between the party and a dwarven clan, but that itself doesn't really make it worth it.
The fact is that most of the time players only choose a special race because they want the bonuses that come with it.
Here's why we should have a mechanic for giving each PC cultural diversity instead of racial diversity that all end up being exactly the same: http://stovebanana.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/only-one-race-in-fantasy-rpgs/
"Most of the time" isn't good enough for a "all of the time" solution.
For real, does any other DM out there have to listen to a speech about "I bought this book, therefor I should be allowed to use anything in it" from their players?
I always responded with "I don't own the book, and I won't allow you to have it unless I have to book. If you want it that bad, but me the book. No PDFs."
"Most of the time" isn't good enough for a "all of the time" solution.Most of the time, its completely unnecessary to have multiple races in an RPG because player play them all EXACTLY THE SAME. Now, sure there are occasional times where playing a different race may come in handy, like a dwarf being able to be a liaison between the party and a dwarven clan, but that itself doesn't really make it worth it.
The fact is that most of the time players only choose a special race because they want the bonuses that come with it.
Here's why we should have a mechanic for giving each PC cultural diversity instead of racial diversity that all end up being exactly the same: http://stovebanana.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/only-one-race-in-fantasy-rpgs/
Actually it is. When you design a product, you focus on the most common use case, whatever your customers will want to use 90% of the time. Maybe some of the other stuff is supported, but it's pushed to the back.
Actually it is. When you design a product, you focus on the most common use case, whatever your customers will want to use 90% of the time. Maybe some of the other stuff is supported, but it's pushed to the back."Most of the time" isn't good enough for a "all of the time" solution.Most of the time, its completely unnecessary to have multiple races in an RPG because player play them all EXACTLY THE SAME. Now, sure there are occasional times where playing a different race may come in handy, like a dwarf being able to be a liaison between the party and a dwarven clan, but that itself doesn't really make it worth it.
The fact is that most of the time players only choose a special race because they want the bonuses that come with it.
Here's why we should have a mechanic for giving each PC cultural diversity instead of racial diversity that all end up being exactly the same: http://stovebanana.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/only-one-race-in-fantasy-rpgs/
I very highly doubt that race makes 0 difference 90% of the time. I highly doubt it's 20% of the time. Maybe your groups just don't try to roleplay.
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Going back to a James Jacobs post in his long mega question thread to sum up for me ...
"It absolutely is. Part of what defines Golarion is the fantastic elements we put into the setting, such as magic, clockworks, aliens, and robots. Saxes are hardly fantastic. They're anachronistic, in my opinion, just as are pith helmets and sneakers and rubber tires. A setting where everything is in it isn't a setting at all. It's just an anything-goes mess.
**'Golarion, and any fantasy world, is defined as much by what's not in it as it is by what IS in it. **And there's no saxophones in it."
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Going back to a James Jacobs post in his long mega question thread to sum up for me ...
"It absolutely is. Part of what defines Golarion is the fantastic elements we put into the setting, such as magic, clockworks, aliens, and robots. Saxes are hardly fantastic. They're anachronistic, in my opinion, just as are pith helmets and sneakers and rubber tires. A setting where everything is in it isn't a setting at all. It's just an anything-goes mess.
**'Golarion, and any fantasy world, is defined as much by what's not in it as it is by what IS in it. **And there's no saxophones in it."
How does it even make sense to say saxophones are anachronistic? It's not like there's a "real" timeline it's deviating from. Saxophones in a game set in medieval France would be anachronistic. Saxophones in a game set in something besides the real world can't be anachronistic. Also, isn't it now Golarion canon that it's possible to travel between Golarion and earth? Saxophones were around during WWI, so it's possible that the design was carried back.
But anyway, this doesn't explain why saxophones are verboten but robots are okay...
I very highly doubt that race makes 0 difference 90% of the time. I highly doubt it's 20% of the time. Maybe your groups just don't try to roleplay.Actually it is. When you design a product, you focus on the most common use case, whatever your customers will want to use 90% of the time. Maybe some of the other stuff is supported, but it's pushed to the back."Most of the time" isn't good enough for a "all of the time" solution.Most of the time, its completely unnecessary to have multiple races in an RPG because player play them all EXACTLY THE SAME. Now, sure there are occasional times where playing a different race may come in handy, like a dwarf being able to be a liaison between the party and a dwarven clan, but that itself doesn't really make it worth it.
The fact is that most of the time players only choose a special race because they want the bonuses that come with it.
Here's why we should have a mechanic for giving each PC cultural diversity instead of racial diversity that all end up being exactly the same: http://stovebanana.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/only-one-race-in-fantasy-rpgs/
In my experience, race comes into play much less than 10% of the time. As in, we all forgot he played a dwarf until he used his dark vision that one time in a 4 hour session. And even that is an ability, not a difference in personality or customs.
That's from about 8 different groups I've played in, and a few I've heard on podcasts or youtube.
I very highly doubt that race makes 0 difference 90% of the time. I highly doubt it's 20% of the time. Maybe your groups just don't try to roleplay.Actually it is. When you design a product, you focus on the most common use case, whatever your customers will want to use 90% of the time. Maybe some of the other stuff is supported, but it's pushed to the back."Most of the time" isn't good enough for a "all of the time" solution.Most of the time, its completely unnecessary to have multiple races in an RPG because player play them all EXACTLY THE SAME. Now, sure there are occasional times where playing a different race may come in handy, like a dwarf being able to be a liaison between the party and a dwarven clan, but that itself doesn't really make it worth it.
The fact is that most of the time players only choose a special race because they want the bonuses that come with it.
Here's why we should have a mechanic for giving each PC cultural diversity instead of racial diversity that all end up being exactly the same: http://stovebanana.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/only-one-race-in-fantasy-rpgs/
In my experience, race comes into play much less than 10% of the time. As in, we all forgot he played a dwarf until he used his dark vision that one time in a 4 hour session. And even that is an ability, not a difference in personality or customs.
That's from about 8 different groups I've played in, and a few I've heard on podcasts or youtube.
You can't account for lack of roleplaying in a roleplaying game.
Going back to a James Jacobs post in his long mega question thread to sum up for me ...
"It absolutely is. Part of what defines Golarion is the fantastic elements we put into the setting, such as magic, clockworks, aliens, and robots. Saxes are hardly fantastic. They're anachronistic, in my opinion, just as are pith helmets and sneakers and rubber tires. A setting where everything is in it isn't a setting at all. It's just an anything-goes mess.
**'Golarion, and any fantasy world, is defined as much by what's not in it as it is by what IS in it. **And there's no saxophones in it."
How does it even make sense to say saxophones are anachronistic? It's not like there's a "real" timeline it's deviating from. Saxophones in a game set in medieval France would be anachronistic. Saxophones in a game set in something besides the real world can't be anachronistic. Also, isn't it now Golarion canon that it's possible to travel between Golarion and earth? Saxophones were around during WWI, so it's possible that the design was carried back.
But anyway, this doesn't explain why saxophones are verboten but robots are okay...
Its part of defining the world. Both what is in it and what is not in it are part of the definition. "But ... Dragons exist so EVERYTHING must also exist!" Is not an argument I'm particularly fond of. In other words, just because one unusual element exists doesn't mean that every single other element you can think of must also exist if you can say that it is less unusual than that aforementioned element.
Its part of defining the world. Both what is in it and what is not in it are part of the definition. "But ... Dragons exist so EVERYTHING must also exist!" Is not an argument I'm particularly fond of. In other words, just because one unusual element exists doesn't mean that every single other element you can think of must also exist if you can say that it is less unusual than that aforementioned element.
That doesn't explain why one would appeal to anachronism as a reason for forbidding something.
Its part of defining the world. Both what is in it and what is not in it are part of the definition. "But ... Dragons exist so EVERYTHING must also exist!" Is not an argument I'm particularly fond of. In other words, just because one unusual element exists doesn't mean that every single other element you can think of must also exist if you can say that it is less unusual than that aforementioned element.That doesn't explain why one would appeal to anachronism as a reason for forbidding something.
Quite obviously the intent is using anachronism as a substitute for "doesn't fit" - but regardless that is utterly besides the point on what the important part of that text is;
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Perhaps 'A saxaphone is anomalous' would be a better way to state it.
You can't account for lack of roleplaying in a roleplaying game.I very highly doubt that race makes 0 difference 90% of the time. I highly doubt it's 20% of the time. Maybe your groups just don't try to roleplay.Actually it is. When you design a product, you focus on the most common use case, whatever your customers will want to use 90% of the time. Maybe some of the other stuff is supported, but it's pushed to the back."Most of the time" isn't good enough for a "all of the time" solution.Most of the time, its completely unnecessary to have multiple races in an RPG because player play them all EXACTLY THE SAME. Now, sure there are occasional times where playing a different race may come in handy, like a dwarf being able to be a liaison between the party and a dwarven clan, but that itself doesn't really make it worth it.
The fact is that most of the time players only choose a special race because they want the bonuses that come with it.
Here's why we should have a mechanic for giving each PC cultural diversity instead of racial diversity that all end up being exactly the same: http://stovebanana.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/only-one-race-in-fantasy-rpgs/
In my experience, race comes into play much less than 10% of the time. As in, we all forgot he played a dwarf until he used his dark vision that one time in a 4 hour session. And even that is an ability, not a difference in personality or customs.
That's from about 8 different groups I've played in, and a few I've heard on podcasts or youtube.
The way an RPG is designed could affect how it's played and how much role-playing is encouraged and supported. Just look at the difference between Numenera and D&D 4.
The way an RPG is designed could affect how it's played and how much role-playing is encouraged and supported. Just look at the difference between Numenera and D&D 4.You can't account for lack of roleplaying in a roleplaying game.I very highly doubt that race makes 0 difference 90% of the time. I highly doubt it's 20% of the time. Maybe your groups just don't try to roleplay.Actually it is. When you design a product, you focus on the most common use case, whatever your customers will want to use 90% of the time. Maybe some of the other stuff is supported, but it's pushed to the back."Most of the time" isn't good enough for a "all of the time" solution.Most of the time, its completely unnecessary to have multiple races in an RPG because player play them all EXACTLY THE SAME. Now, sure there are occasional times where playing a different race may come in handy, like a dwarf being able to be a liaison between the party and a dwarven clan, but that itself doesn't really make it worth it.
The fact is that most of the time players only choose a special race because they want the bonuses that come with it.
Here's why we should have a mechanic for giving each PC cultural diversity instead of racial diversity that all end up being exactly the same: http://stovebanana.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/only-one-race-in-fantasy-rpgs/
In my experience, race comes into play much less than 10% of the time. As in, we all forgot he played a dwarf until he used his dark vision that one time in a 4 hour session. And even that is an ability, not a difference in personality or customs.
That's from about 8 different groups I've played in, and a few I've heard on podcasts or youtube.
And it's designed fairly well for roleplaying. People just saying "Pff, dwarves, elves, humans, fairies, gnolls, whatever they're all the same amirite?" are just bad roleplayers. Getting rid of all non-humans won't help that at all.
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Although Saxophones don't exist in Golarion (although you could grab one from Earth!),
Humans, Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, Halflings, Tieflings, Aasimar, Dhampir, Half-orcs, Half-elves, Changelings, Tengu, Samsarans, Nagaji, Kitsune, Svirneblin, Gillmen, Merfolk, Skinwalkers, Lashunta, Ghoram, Syrinx, Strix, Undines, Fetchlings, Suli, Ifrit, Oreads, Sylphs, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Vanara, Grippli, Wayangs, and Vishkanya. Plus mostly enemy races such as Kuru, Goblins, Monkey-Goblins, Hobgoblins, Orcs, Drow, Kobolds, and Duergar all do exist.
Which is to say that you can have a setting with lots of races which doesn't automatically break.
Although Saxophones don't exist in Golarion (although you could grab one from Earth!),
Humans, Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, Halflings, Tieflings, Aasimar, Dhampir, Half-orcs, Half-elves, Changelings, Tengu, Samsarans, Nagaji, Kitsune, Svirneblin, Gillmen, Merfolk, Skinwalkers, Lashunta, Ghoram, Syrinx, Strix, Undines, Fetchlings, Suli, Ifrit, Oreads, Sylphs, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Vanara, Grippli, Wayangs, and Vishkanya. Plus mostly enemy races such as Kuru, Goblins, Monkey-Goblins, Hobgoblins, Orcs, Drow, Kobolds, and Duergar all do exist.
Which is to say that you can have a setting with lots of races which doesn't automatically break.
Drow are anachronistic. They didn't exist in 10th century England :P
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Adventuring is a rather, dangerous occupation. It means you'll never have a warm bed guaranteed, and you're more likely to die early ripped apart by rabid owlbears than you are to retire with all your limbs, soul and sanity intact with savings built up from beating up rabid owlbears.
So, those on the outsides of society are more likely to be drawn to adventuring, since it would be more difficult for them to get normal jobs. In a humancentric world, where non-humans are frowned upon, wouldn't it be more likely for them to go adventure than humans?
I mean for a half-orc there are likely a few options in a place that doesn't care for greenskins.
1) Become a gladiator, intresting option. Maybe you'll get fame and fortune. Good option, if you're into killing people for the entertainment of others. But they just idolize you because you're famous.
2) Work in backbreaking labour- have nobody like you, likely not even your coworkers
3) Join the army as one of their shock-troops.
4) go on an adventure with fellow social outcasts and oddballs. These fellow outcasts, weather human or not get you, mostly and hopefully. Because hey, no matter what race you are, or alignment a party does end up being a family.
If I were a half-orc I would pick option four.
You don't need to workaround the fact that the part is made up of exotic races, or even non-human races. They're likely used to that, and picked up the life of an adventurer because getting a normal, and rather safe job back home was not exactly in the cards.
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Recently had a problem pertaining to this thread.
I picked up a game after our DM had slaughtered any semblance of fun possible, and after a couple of weeks we decided that we needed a new game because this one is too far down the crapper to salvage.My players have been excessively whiny about what I'm allowing and not allowing.
Apparently "any paizo race from the CRB, ARG, or the various Blood of x books" is not enough choices for them. I have a player who not only whined and whined to get me to allow Gunslingers, but now is asking me to let him play a Grippli werewolf, and let him have control of it. I have another player who is asking me how many race points he is allowed to have so he can invent his own race to maximize his character concept.
For real, does any other DM out there have to listen to a speech about "I bought this book, therefor I should be allowed to use anything in it" from their players?
Personally, I think my players are just spoiled, granted the "get off my lawn" players that I have are not causing this problem, it's the 'newbies' who have only experienced the game from one side of the table and only see the game from that side's perspective.
You make it sound like the DM was not the real problem here.....
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I always responded with "I don't own the book, and I won't allow you to have it unless I have to book. If you want it that bad, but me the book. No PDFs."
I think I would end up buying you a lot of books.
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I always responded with "I don't own the book, and I won't allow you to have it unless I have to book. If you want it that bad, but me the book. No PDFs."
"I bought this book, therefor I should be allowed to use anything in it"
Both of these positions are stupid, for sure. If a player goes through the trouble of getting a book, I will at least take a look at it and assess wether i find it balanced or not and make a decision based on that. Perhaps influenced by how the player is going to use the option, but I will neither disallow an entire book that is at my exposal, just because i don't own it, nor allow everthing in it just because a player bought it.
Although Saxophones don't exist in Golarion (although you could grab one from Earth!),
Humans, Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, Halflings, Tieflings, Aasimar, Dhampir, Half-orcs, Half-elves, Changelings, Tengu, Samsarans, Nagaji, Kitsune, Svirneblin, Gillmen, Merfolk, Skinwalkers, Lashunta, Ghoram, Syrinx, Strix, Undines, Fetchlings, Suli, Ifrit, Oreads, Sylphs, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Vanara, Grippli, Wayangs, and Vishkanya. Plus mostly enemy races such as Kuru, Goblins, Monkey-Goblins, Hobgoblins, Orcs, Drow, Kobolds, and Duergar all do exist.
Which is to say that you can have a setting with lots of races which doesn't automatically break.
'Lots' is not the same as 'all'.
Drow are anachronistic. They didn't exist in 10th century England :PAlthough Saxophones don't exist in Golarion (although you could grab one from Earth!),
Humans, Elves, Gnomes, Dwarves, Halflings, Tieflings, Aasimar, Dhampir, Half-orcs, Half-elves, Changelings, Tengu, Samsarans, Nagaji, Kitsune, Svirneblin, Gillmen, Merfolk, Skinwalkers, Lashunta, Ghoram, Syrinx, Strix, Undines, Fetchlings, Suli, Ifrit, Oreads, Sylphs, Catfolk, Ratfolk, Vanara, Grippli, Wayangs, and Vishkanya. Plus mostly enemy races such as Kuru, Goblins, Monkey-Goblins, Hobgoblins, Orcs, Drow, Kobolds, and Duergar all do exist.
Which is to say that you can have a setting with lots of races which doesn't automatically break.
You keep latching onto the irrelevant part of that post instead of the relevant one ...
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For real, does any other DM out there have to listen to a speech about "I bought this book, therefor I should be allowed to use anything in it" from their players? Personally, I think my players are just spoiled.
If you recruit players willy-nilly from the local middle school, this is what you get. For a home game, screen your players in advance and the problem disappears. (For a public game, PFS has all kinds of restrictions and stuff already in place.)
PF is a hobby that requires a lot of time. I don't voluntarily spend a lot of time with whiny b*+#!es whom I clearly dislike. I'm not clear on why you would insist on doing so, and then complain about it.
For real, does any other DM out there have to listen to a speech about "I bought this book, therefor I should be allowed to use anything in it" from their players? Personally, I think my players are just spoiled.If you recruit players willy-nilly from the local middle school, this is what you get. For a home game, screen your players in advance and the problem disappears. (For a public game, PFS has all kinds of restrictions and stuff already in place.)
PF is a hobby that requires a lot of time. I don't voluntarily spend a lot of time with whiny b$~$@es whom I clearly dislike. I'm not clear on why you would insist on doing so, and then complain about it.
It is a public game at my local game store, I decided to take over because the owner of the store who was our DM had a lot going on because he was.. well, running a store. On top of that the group had accumulated so much wealth that balancing encounters was nigh impossible and after a couple of encounters where it was deus ex machina by the DM or a TPK, I offered to take over. We voted that we didn't want PFS, but thanks for the advice.
Both of these positions are stupid, for sure. If a player goes through the trouble of getting a book, I will at least take a look at it and assess wether i find it balanced or not and make a decision based on that. Perhaps influenced by how the player is going to use the option, but I will neither disallow an entire book that is at my exposal, just because i don't own it, nor allow everthing in it just because a player bought it.
I didn't disallow any of the books, the players are asking me to convert monster templates from the bestiary into playable racial templates with level adjustment.
The bitter side of me wants to say it's because allowing all races from the official game content, and most of the races from Dreamscarred's Psionics, is just not enough for these people.
As for the player who wants to invent his race, yeah I am not okay with that, and I know very few DMs who would be, especially in a home brew game world that I have been developing for months. I suppose if someone were to use the race builder to introduce a variant of an already existing race that hasn't made it to pathfinder yet (e.g. wood elves; strongheart halflings) I would allow for that, because they already exist in the world culturally, just not mechanically.