Creative Director
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Hi,
I am a first time poster and long time GM, I have run through 3 of the Pathfinder adventure paths, Rise of the Rune lords where I was a PC paladin Oracle of battle and DM'd Kingmaker and now currently on chapter 5 with my party on reign of winter. We will be running Wrath of the righteous very soon and I had a question for James Jacobs. My understanding is that this is a mythic adventure, so much so that Iomeade will take notice as she provides boons along with maybe contact later from desna and any of the other good gods. I also know that other deities may have a stake in this AP even Asmodeus as he would not want cheliax to be over run with demons. So my question is what is to stop the player characters from plane shifting to their god's plane of existence where they will be outfitted to the teeth in holy/ divine gear.
It seems to me that no god wants a demonlord wrecking things for his followers, and this is on a global scale. If there are mythic characters running around who have the attention of various gods what is to stop them from getting crazy loot if they directly visit their god?
Also what are the rules for bringing tendrelev back from the dead, im sure a raise dead spell can do that quite quickly. I only ask because I assume that these are the first things my PC's may try to do when they reach this level of power within the short time span of these AP's and as a DM I want to know if this will be breaking the game.
What's to prevent the PCs from plane shifting to the gods palace and getting them to give them stuff is that the gods reward those who deserve it. A god isn't going to just give you stuff because you think you deserve it, and it's not going to give you stuff just because there's enemies on your border. It's YOUR JOB to handle that. The gods are handling god stuff, and part of that is that they're already helping mortals out by granting their clerics spells and stuff.
Furthermore... the gods work in mysterious ways, and there are rules and boundaries and things they can't do. For example... if all the gods of good simply outfitted the PCs with the best weapons and armor and magic... then why wouldn't the gods of evil do the exact same thing for THEIR followers. It would turn into an arms race, and the net result would be that both sides would more or less be as equally matched as they were without the help... OR the net result would be, taken to the extreme, that the minions would be as powerful as the gods.
So yeah... the gods wouldn't just give their followers whatever they could becasue that's simply not how they do things. Even a good deity is going to not want to help someone who's arrogant to walk into their realm and ask for handouts.
Furthermore... while to the PCs and the churches even something like the Worldwound is a big deal... to the gods themselves... it's only one of countless infinitely equally big deals. They have worshipers on many worlds, after all, and those worlds have problems as well.
As for Terendelev... first off, wait till you see the whole adventure. Second, raise dead won't work if a body is mutilated, as is the case here. On top of that, the Storm King dragged her body away and into the Worldwound, so since raise dead requires the body, that spell won't work anyway. True resurrection doesn't require body parts, and resurrection will work with, say, just her scales... but if the PCs try to resurrect her... it won't work. Why not?
There really is something to be said for waiting for an AP to be fully released to run it.
I wish I could have waited. Too fun though and the players were looking forward to it. We'll deal. :)
I suspect by the time the PCs are high enough level to use that level of magic, they won't even remember Terendelev.
Seriously. I have a hard enough time getting players to remember little things like the fact they have an Ice Fey trapped in a bird cage in Skyrim - er, I mean Reign of Winter. Some silver dragon that died at the very start of the adventure? They'll forget about her in three games, tops. ;)
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Mine won't because they elected to ask for a drawback of being attached to the scales and keep notes about that stuff. I tread very carefully about what my players can and cannot do in a game. Though likely whatever it is in the 6th adventure they will push to pull something off for the fallen silver.
There really is something to be said for waiting for an AP to be fully released to run it.
This feels like a punishment for people that are excited to play a product that they have already purchased. There has to be a better way to explain plot hooks that come to revelation in later books within each of the earlier books, so GMs don't break the adventure early on and have to do a lot of unnecessary backtracking.
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Creative Director
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There really is something to be said for waiting for an AP to be fully released to run it.This feels like a punishment for people that are excited to play a product that they have already purchased. There has to be a better way to explain plot hooks that come to revelation in later books within each of the earlier books, so GMs don't break the adventure early on and have to do a lot of unnecessary backtracking.
It might be a punishment, but it's absolutely not intentional.
Building an Adventure Path takes a year, and we aren't far enough ahead of things to be at a place where we're able to release all the things at once. Furthermore, by splitting the cost of an Adventure Path up over 6 installments, we not only make it affordable enough for gamers to buy... but also affordable enough for us to create.
We try to give all the information you'll need to run the AP if you do so as it comes out... but the simple matter is we can't anticipate EVERYTHING that you might need for your particular interpretations and preferences. Nor can we anticipate EVERYTHING that will develop as the adventure path is created. It's an organic process... and often some of the best ideas come about after we've already shipped the earlier volumes to the printer.
And furthermore... it's important to keep folks excited and anticipating the next part. For the same reason there are cliffhangers at the end of TV episodes or novel chapters, we try to create a sense of excitement for the GM who's reading the AP as well in order to get them invested and eager to pick up the next volume. As an AP plays out, that sense of anticipation naturally occurs for the players, but the GM should get a taste of it too.
All of that means that the serialized nature of the product is a necessary evil.
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Creative Director
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Ah well thats to bad I really liked tendrelev.Will her gold dragon mentor Halaseliax be making an appearance as he is mentioned in Dragons revisited. James I was also wondering I read up on Iomeade's top 3 servants, the flaming wheel, the angel and the gold dragon who is supposedly he son with Apsu. Would they be appearing in the AP. I was thinking if in chapter 3 if my divine character finds out he is the son of Iomeade, maybe he would like his celestial gold dragon brother to fight with him. Maybe even create special rules for a dragon mount for mythic characters maybe.
""""We try to give all the information you'll need to run the AP if you do so as it comes out... but the simple matter is we can't anticipate EVERYTHING that you might need for your particular interpretations and preferences. Nor can we anticipate EVERYTHING that will develop as the adventure path is created. It's an organic process... and often some of the best ideas come about after we've already shipped the earlier volumes to the printer."""
That is understandable players evolve the game and it is up to the DM to adjust the encounter or the story. I remember in the era of 3.5 I ran my party through the Bastion of broken souls module where the party faced the dread half demon-red dragon ashardalon after meeting a fallen god and a bunch of other things and all because a crazy bi polar demon lord was out to get his other half. But anyway in the module the party finds books that are worth 200,000 gp. I as the DM had no explanation so i said it was a book of Godly Binding (kind of like planar binding but on an epic scale) My party was responsible for protecting this book every crazy wizard, lich and dragon from all across the planes. Eventually it was stolen by a half fiend leshay who bound an over deity and was in a city of portals that connected to every plane in existence. The kicker was that the Over deity's power was to make other deities mortal and his power was seeping across the planes. So my two man party of level 26 characters ( who leveled all the way from 18) had to traverse this city falling into different planes along the way for a climactic battle, where not only they defeated the final villain but also partially redeemed him and he became a great NPC/ Cohort for their next adventure. This lasted two years, but players will surprise you.
My worst surprise came when a we discovered a level 11 summoner and a level 11 paladin together can destroy a a 10 cr 16 monsters simply by mass summoning lantern Archons and using the paladins Aura of Justice to allow them to smite evil, or the toilet paper roll with 100 explosive runes and a low level dispel magic item.
About Halaseliax and Iomedae's other minions:
Darn treacherous demi-humans
That particular kind of demi-human is always treacherous. As a player I assume they're always CE, and just wait for the opportunity to hold them accountable for their villany. They rarely disappoint. I tell you, they make the Demons look good by comparison.
With one exception, my players feel the same way. PC #5 will insist they can do no wrong, as they play one normally. PC's 1-4 will have to struggle mightily OOC not to automatically expect treachery. Draw what conclusions you will.
Frankly, I don't expect it to last more than 3 days before being put down like a rabid dog, particularly since per the AP it will live down to their lowest expectations.
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I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.
My AP says that Staunton Vhane has 2 uses of Mythic Power per day. It probably should be changed to 7...
I have only read the NPC bios, but it seems like finding the traitor could be made more interesting by using the NPC who is meant to be a red herring.
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After reading the volume from cover to cover, I have to say this adventure is awesome, with cool characters and a good mix of exploration, combat and mass combat. However, the combats seem easy for an experienced group of players (as mine are) and only three enemies are mythic.
While reading I found some possible errors, maybe the designers can confirm these.
- Pg. 9 Who are you sending with us?
The names Aron Kir and Sosiel Vaenic seem to be incorrectly placed on the text, according to the description.
Staunton Vhane
- He seems to be missing two ability score raises (Lvl 4 and 8) or the 2nd Tier +2, according to my calculations
Base stats with 25 point buy (racial modifiers already applied):
Str 16 Dex 10 Con 18 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 12
Now we add the magic modifiers and one +2 to an ability score:
Str 20 (+4 bull's strength) Dex 10 Con 24 (+2 ability score, +4 belt) Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 14 (+2 headband)
I will probably put those points into Charisma.
- As The Rot Grub already commented, he should have mythic power 7/day (3+tier x2), as he has tiers not ranks.
This is not errata, but for an easier reading of the mythic statblocks, It would probably be a good idea to list the first path ability as follows: "champion's strike (sudden attack)"
Soltengrebbe
- The text says he has spell resistance, but it doesn't appear in the statblock.
While the monster is cool, I think it needs a bit more defense. I will get rid of Coordinated Bites (his weakest mythic ability) and give him something similar to the mythic ettin Two Brains ability.
Kiranda
- Her AC is wrong. She is listed as wearing leather armor, but only has a +1 armor bonus (should be +2). Even with this armor, her AC doesn't get to 29, only to 27. Canny defense should be categorized as a dodge bonus in the AC breakdown.
- She is also missing her two claw attacks, in case she is disarmed.
- Her initiative modifier should be +7, not +9 (+5 Dex, +2 improved reactions)
Joran
- He has a spell storing weapon, but the statblock doesn't say what spell it holds.
- Area G13 is affected by a deeper shadow spell. I assume it was cast by Eustoyriax, and the CL is 10th. Is this correct?
Eustoyriax
- His SR is 21+. What does the "+" mean?. I assume it is a typo.
- He is missing 1 ability score increase from reaching 8 Hit Dice:
Shadow demon base stats
Str - Dex 18 Con 17 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 19
With advanced template (+4 to each score)
Str - Dex 22 Con 21 Int 18 Wis 18 Cha 23
With the two +2 increases from mythic rank 4 (Con and Cha)
Str - Dex 22 Con 23 Int 18 Wis 18 Cha 25
I will raise his Charisma score.
So I've read The Worldwound Incursion and the Sword of Valor cover to cover. In the player's guide, it stated that arcane casters with a talent for summoning will have moments to shine in the AP. I don't see a real place where they could really stand out as of yet. Will it be in the next volumes that these talents really come to the forefront?
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Creative Director
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So I've read The Worldwound Incursion and the Sword of Valor cover to cover. In the player's guide, it stated that arcane casters with a talent for summoning will have moments to shine in the AP. I don't see a real place where they could really stand out as of yet. Will it be in the next volumes that these talents really come to the forefront?
There's nothing really in Wrath of the Righteous that makes summoning characters a super excellent choice as written, other than the fact that some creatures are really good against demons when you summon them.
It's more of a thematic thing, I guess... summoning characters will fit the themes of the AP well, since there's a lot of outsider stuff going on.
Sorry for the confusion. This is, I suppose, a good thing for us to work on... shoring up the player's guides to be more and more accurate representations of our Adventure Paths.
Summon Good Monster seems to be an excellent feat choice for this AP, if you want to do summoning.
So I've read The Worldwound Incursion and the Sword of Valor cover to cover. In the player's guide, it stated that arcane casters with a talent for summoning will have moments to shine in the AP. I don't see a real place where they could really stand out as of yet. Will it be in the next volumes that these talents really come to the forefront?There's nothing really in Wrath of the Righteous that makes summoning characters a super excellent choice as written, other than the fact that some creatures are really good against demons when you summon them.
It's more of a thematic thing, I guess... summoning characters will fit the themes of the AP well, since there's a lot of outsider stuff going on.
Sorry for the confusion. This is, I suppose, a good thing for us to work on... shoring up the player's guides to be more and more accurate representations of our Adventure Paths.
It's ok Mr Jacobs. I'm just partial to playing sorcerers and I wanted to know what would REALLY work well. Direct damage is sketchy with all the demonic resistances, but maybe a Celestial Bloodlined caster would do well. Thanks for the clarification.
Quick question (I hope). Early on in the second book, it mentions Galfrey hands out medals for their previous accomplishments. Some of these are definitely not able to be earned yet (looking at the redeem and mind control ones specifically).
Which medals should the characters be earning at this point? The only one that I'm seeing is the one for getting a killing blow on a demon above their CR (which all the characters did earn in the babau fight). Should there be more than that possibly?
Also at what point should the other medals be handed out? Whenever they see Galfrey next? Immediately after they fulfill the requirements (if yes, by who)?
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Creative Director
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Quick question (I hope). Early on in the second book, it mentions Galfrey hands out medals for their previous accomplishments. Some of these are definitely not able to be earned yet (looking at the redeem and mind control ones specifically).
Which medals should the characters be earning at this point? The only one that I'm seeing is the one for getting a killing blow on a demon above their CR (which all the characters did earn in the babau fight). Should there be more than that possibly?
Also at what point should the other medals be handed out? Whenever they see Galfrey next? Immediately after they fulfill the requirements (if yes, by who)?
It's not set in stone which medals the PCs should earn. They can earn them throughout the AP. They can even find out what they need to do and then specifically go out and try to earn them on purpose.
As for when they are awarded them and by whom... that can vary. Galfrey certainly can do the honors, but she doesn't have to. The best way to handle it is to have the PCs get a chance to meet with army officials at the end of each adventure and get new badges at that point.
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Also at what point should the other medals be handed out? Whenever they see Galfrey next? Immediately after they fulfill the requirements (if yes, by who)?
I believe it mentions the medals being handed out between adventures - which for Sword of Valor would be the next time they are able to meet with the Queen or one of her field commanders.
EDIT: Darn sneaky tyrannosauruses! I thought I'd left you behind in Ungoro Crater!
Helpful!
I do recall one other I wasn't sure on. One of the medals is for bringing information to the war effort that can be used against the Worldwound. I seem to recall in the gray garrison on the 2nd floor they can find a bunch of files with the cultist movements and names of cultists. Does this count toward that medal (or should it)? Or should it wait until the 2nd book where in that one chapel it specifically calls out files that count for that medal?
Sorry for missing detail but I don't have my book or pdfs handy to remember exact details.
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Creative Director
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Helpful!
I do recall one other I wasn't sure on. One of the medals is for bringing information to the war effort that can be used against the Worldwound. I seem to recall in the gray garrison on the 2nd floor they can find a bunch of files with the cultist movements and names of cultists. Does this count toward that medal (or should it)? Or should it wait until the 2nd book where in that one chapel it specifically calls out files that count for that medal?
Sorry for missing detail but I don't have my book or pdfs handy to remember exact details.
The files in the Gray Garrison count if the PCs found them and got them to the right people.
Okay, first of all, I LOVE this adventure and am so excited to see how the rest of the AP will go. But, as I read through mine, the pages started detaching from the binding. I've only been subscribing since Rasputin Must Die, so I don't have a lot of background on product quality (in the physical integrity sense) for Paizo softcovers. Is this an anomaly or something to be expected in future AP releases?
An anomaly. It hasn't happened with a single book for me with 38 modules by now.
Anomaly - Has not happened to me and I have *all* the APs.
it actually happens to me quite often, always either in the front or back, happens mostly on my campaign setting books tho.
I recommend three-ring binders. Have them hole-punched and put the whole group into the binder. I've heard some people do this for all the APs. (I've not had this happen yet, but I've also not had the opportunity for the softbound versions to get far into them.)
Thanks for the three-ring binder tip! That's a great idea for keeping them together and stopping all sorts of long-term wear and tear.
Really appreciate the answers, James! Extremely helpful.
Should the NPCs that "costar" in the AP gain levels as well? If Irabeth helps the party at the end, she's going to be REALLY out of her league.
For level ups, I generally tend to level NPC's who follow the character closely, but always keep them 1-2-3 levels behind. Irabeth, if she follows the group, could be level 6 or 7 at the end from her involvements.
And with the barbarian girl that's level 10, if they manage to redeem her, I could see her change of conscience and adapting as hindering her level up. Or if the characters leadership her and want her stat sheet, re-scale her down to appropriate levels.
I haven't started this AP yet, but seeing as the players only fight 2 or 3 mythic monsters in the AP, wouldn't the rest of the regular monsters be easy and no challenge to them, even when they only have 1 or 2 tiers?
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Creative Director
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Are they really sending the PCs out on a siege of Drezen with only 100 people? Even if they're all paladins, you run into encounters of 200+ enemy on the road, and the city itself has hundreds more. Even with 'we need a relatively small force to avoid notice' and 'having to move at speed', you think they'd give you some more mounted infantry at least.
Yup. They really are.
The reasoning being that if they send much more than that, the sheer size of the army becomes so large that the enemy can't help but notice and shift resources to stop the PCs. At about 100, the army's big enough to let the PCs taste the thrill of commanding an army and to help them deal with the large numbers of low level foes they'll find in Drezen, but small enough so that they won't bring down the entire wrath of the Worldwound's armies on their head, leaving those armies to stay focused on the southern cities so the PCs can do their surgical strike without much interruption.
More to the point and from an adventure design stand... the actual amount of soldiers given is pretty irrelevant, since we would have built the encounter to match however many soldiers we sent. 100 is a good baseline, and so that's what we went with.
Don't forget also. This isn't the modern era. An army of 100 knights is a powerful force! You're talking a heavy cavalry charge, with soldiers who can heal themselves and are more resistant to magic and the like (due to being mostly Paladins). I mean, they can't exactly lay siege to Drezen but they're small enough that the enemy could very well try to send its own army out to crush them... and then get curbstomped by mythic characters (and Paladins and the like).
Are the paladins mounted?
Yes.
Resources: improved armor, improved weapons (mwk cold iron), mounts, ranged weapons (longbows)
-- david
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Are they really sending the PCs out on a siege of Drezen with only 100 people? Even if they're all paladins, you run into encounters of 200+ enemy on the road, and the city itself has hundreds more. Even with 'we need a relatively small force to avoid notice' and 'having to move at speed', you think they'd give you some more mounted infantry at least.Yup. They really are.
The reasoning being that if they send much more than that, the sheer size of the army becomes so large that the enemy can't help but notice and shift resources to stop the PCs. At about 100, the army's big enough to let the PCs taste the thrill of commanding an army and to help them deal with the large numbers of low level foes they'll find in Drezen, but small enough so that they won't bring down the entire wrath of the Worldwound's armies on their head, leaving those armies to stay focused on the southern cities so the PCs can do their surgical strike without much interruption.
More to the point and from an adventure design stand... the actual amount of soldiers given is pretty irrelevant, since we would have built the encounter to match however many soldiers we sent. 100 is a good baseline, and so that's what we went with.
But isn't 100 a number way too small to actually lay siege to a fortress? after all you need to get the place surrounded, which spreads even a large force into a thin line. 100 soldiers seem like too little. Will tripling their number change anything critical in the AP story?
See what I said above. 100 men for an army means it's a skirmishing force against Drezen until finally the defenders go out en-masse to end this growing threat.
I haven't started this AP yet, but seeing as the players only fight 2 or 3 mythic monsters in the AP, wouldn't the rest of the regular monsters be easy and no challenge to them, even when they only have 1 or 2 tiers?
The main baseline for measuring encounter difficulty remains CR, and it seems at first glance that this AP is following the guidelines laid out in Mythic Adventures: one-third of the encounters presume a party of APL, one-third of the encounters presume a party of APL-adjusted-by-mythic-tiers, and the remainder presume a party in the middle.
I'm about halfway through reading this AP, and I've noticed CR 8 and CR 9 encounters for a 6th level party with 1 mythic tier, which is pretty challenging.
I haven't started this AP yet, but seeing as the players only fight 2 or 3 mythic monsters in the AP, wouldn't the rest of the regular monsters be easy and no challenge to them, even when they only have 1 or 2 tiers?
That will depend on the monster's CR and the encounter setup. For this adventure, I see too many encounters where creatures are individually 3 or more CR points below the PCs level. That is much more important mechanically than the supposed Area EL. For my gaming group, this means "easy encounter", so some of them will be eliminated and the xp used to upgrade encounters in other areas. In particular, the Citadel has too many encounters.
Also, don't forget that the party can recruit some of the NPCs to help them clear Drezen. Even if they are not mythic, it makes combats easier.
Two examples of easy encounters (there are more):
- Area G3. CR 4 creatures against 9th lvl/ 2nd Tier characters. That is basically free xp (EL 9).
- Skirmish 2 Ahari Bridge. This encounter only has one real threat IMHO: Barrid (and he is not that great either). The awesome man-eating aurochs and the cultists have no real way of damaging the characters at this level, save for the occasional crit. I'll get rid of the cultists, advance the aurochs, and let them move freely (EL 8).
As for the mythic enemies, I will try to add one or two. A good candidate for this mythic upgrade is Kiranda. Since she has a special relationship with Aponavicius, you can eliminate the red dragon pet and assume she was given one of the elixirs. If she escapes from Drezen, she can become a good recurring villain.
I hope the next adventure has harder encounters, and uses more mythic opponents.
But isn't 100 a number way too small to actually lay siege to a fortress? after all you need to get the place surrounded, which spreads even a large force into a thin line. 100 soldiers seem like too little. Will tripling their number change anything critical in the AP story?
You would have to also increase the strength of all the opponents. Also this is an army of 100 level 4 paladins (CR3 each). That's the equivalent of an army of 400 lvl 1 Fighters or 5-600 level 1 Commoners (much more common). Add in the fact that 1) they're mounted and 2) they possess significant advantages against deamons and other evil creatures; and you get an army that is more like an army of 1000 pikemen (i.e. farmers with pikes). Also remember once you get to the final seige you should have added an army of 200 fighters by winning battles 2 and 3.
I haven't started this AP yet, but seeing as the players only fight 2 or 3 mythic monsters in the AP, wouldn't the rest of the regular monsters be easy and no challenge to them, even when they only have 1 or 2 tiers?That will depend on the monster's CR and the encounter setup. For this adventure, I see too many encounters where creatures are individually 3 or more CR points below the PCs level. That is much more important mechanically than the supposed Area EL. For my gaming group, this means "easy encounter", so some of them will be eliminated and the xp used to upgrade encounters in other areas. In particular, the Citadel has too many encounters.
Also, don't forget that the party can recruit some of the NPCs to help them clear Drezen. Even if they are not mythic, it makes combats easier.
Two examples of easy encounters (there are more):
- Area G3. CR 4 creatures against 9th lvl/ 2nd Tier characters. That is basically free xp (EL 9).
- Skirmish 2 Ahari Bridge. This encounter only has one real threat IMHO: Barrid (and he is not that great either). The awesome man-eating aurochs and the cultists have no real way of damaging the characters at this level, save for the occasional crit. I'll get rid of the cultists, advance the aurochs, and let them move freely (EL 8).
As for the mythic enemies, I will try to add one or two. A good candidate for this mythic upgrade is Kiranda. Since she has a special relationship with Aponavicius, you can eliminate the red dragon pet and assume she was given one of the elixirs. If she escapes from Drezen, she can become a good recurring villain.
I hope the next adventure has harder encounters, and uses more mythic opponents.
The way I look at it is that the "easy encounters" are there b/c going through a castler is a slog and it's much more about depleating resources than actually challenging PCs.
it actually happens to me quite often, always either in the front or back, happens mostly on my campaign setting books tho.
That's a shame, really. And my Sword of Valor just had pages 23-26 detach from the spine. :( Mind you, I usually read everything I have with care, and I've kept it in the original thick Paizo shipping cardboard ever since I got it.
I already do the 3-bing-binder method for my black-and-white printouts that I prepare for campaign sessions, and I'd been hoping that my color volumes would survive as collectibles that I could bring down from the shelf for reading purposes.
The way I look at it is that the "easy encounters" are there b/c going through a castler is a slog and it's much more about depleating resources than actually challenging PCs.
Well for me having to go through a lot of easy encounters (no only those inside the citadel) is a waste of time. I prefer to have less encounters, but more challenging.
As for depleting resources, if the PCs have been doing things well, they should have enough siege points to be able to clear the city of enemies and then defeat the armies at the citadel without much pressure. Of course if Nurah is still in the army and the DM rolls 4 after 4 on the die, things will start to look ugly pretty soon. After you kill Staunton, the PCs can take their time to clear the dungeon. One or two rests should be enough. That pretty much takes the resource depletion out of the equation.
During the journey to Drezen is even worse, as they only have a few encounters a day. I don't see them resting because they ran out of spells or mythic power.
In my experience, if the encounters are easy, melee PCs can kill the enemies nearly by themselves, and the casters will only spend one or two spells to support them. They will probably hold onto their mythic power until the boss fights, wich will mean they won't last long before dying.
Of course all this comments are based on my group's capabilites.