I would think that the two spells would cancel each other out. And since the PCs found their way to that room, odds are they already have a light source.
Oh, don't make me track down the horrifically-convoluted discussion about light, darkness, and what it means to "cancel" another spell.
The general interpretation is that since Darkness explicitly says,
Nonmagical sources of light, such as torches and lanterns, do not increase the light level in an area of darkness. Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.
and neither Light nor Daylight have similar wording, "prevailing light" means, "What the area would look like with no carried light sources whatsoever."
Yeah, it was REALLY frustrating for me as the divine caster in Second Darkness to learn that the drow's Deeper Darkness trumped my Daylight so badly that we all had to get darkvision to survive...
Guess I'm coming at it from another angle.
PRD: Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness.
So greater darkness hits, then PCs cast daylight to remove it. So then their previous light source comes into play as there are no other spells in effect.
Mind you, I had the demon use shadow evocation (a 4th level spell) to create darkness so it automatically countered daylight... in my mind. And took a series of skill rolls and then will saves to figure out what was going on. Felt legit enough to me.
Guess I'm coming at it from another angle.
PRD: Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness.
So greater darkness hits, then PCs cast daylight to remove it. So then their previous light source comes into play as there are no other spells in effect.
Mind you, I had the demon use shadow evocation (a 4th level spell) to create darkness so it automatically countered daylight... in my mind. And took a series of skill rolls and then will saves to figure out what was going on. Felt legit enough to me.
Yeah, I'm in your camp. I'd prefer cancellation, but then next round bad guy casts Darkness (2nd level) and since Deeper Darkness and Daylight are canceling, we're in the dark again (at the cost of 1 extra action). Then people start arguing. It's all rather silly.
Guess I'm coming at it from another angle.
PRD: Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness.
So greater darkness hits, then PCs cast daylight to remove it. So then their previous light source comes into play as there are no other spells in effect.
Mind you, I had the demon use shadow evocation (a 4th level spell) to create darkness so it automatically countered daylight... in my mind. And took a series of skill rolls and then will saves to figure out what was going on. Felt legit enough to me.
Heighten a Continual Flame to 4th level. *Expletive Deleted* your darkness!
I always took that "PRD: Daylight counters or dispels any darkness spell of equal or lower level, such as darkness." to mean that Daylight can be used as a counterspell (i.e. cast at the same time as someone else casting a darkness spell to cancel both), and dispel to work as a dispel magic check (though I've never been sure if you could cast as an area dispel or if you had to touch the object with darkness to dispel it).
As for the what happens when Daylight and magical darkness meet, I'll leave that to the other thread I linked to. I don't want to derail this very useful resource anymore. =p
So after our 3rd session of Sword of Valor, I'm a bit stumped on how I can make things easier for my group. I'm not sure if they're a bit disheartened, but the Desecrated Chapel and vescavors were all very difficult encounters for them. Besides having everyone in the negatives (and the Barbarian even hit -21) at some point during this book, they now have to confront the aftermath of the vescavors.
Between them they completely lost, Cloak of Resistance +2, Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2, +1 Blinding Heavy Steel Shield, and a +1 Breastplate, MW Warhammer (of Torag).
Among the broken? Fullplate +1, +1 Evil Outsider Bane Longsword, +1 Cold Iron Longspear, Knight's Pennon (Battle), and a Wand of Magic Missile CL 5th.
I may have missed some other things. But not only that, one of the party members contracted Mania/Phobia, and another one contracted Multiple Personality Disorder (though the player of this is having a grand time).
That was just getting to Drezen. On top of that, they haven't figured out Aron yet. Every encounter since they faced Ilzek and Jaydis have all been over 5 rounds (with Nulkineth and the Vescavor Queen all lasting over 10). I'm just worried that things may be too tough for my group?
I've shared their composition in the past, but I'll post a refresher as a spoiler.
CG Half-Elf Barbarian (Champion) - He's built fairly well, though the lack of Darkvision is really hurting him. He had the Night Vision rage power, but retrained it away before leaving Kenebres. That's been hurting him quite a bit. Otherwise, fights usually go well as soon as he can start hitting things. I think the party relied on this to get through Worldwound Incursion. Now his poor Will save (was +4 but his cloak was devoured, so now its +2), lack of Darkvision, and poor utility at range, have caught up to the group.
NG Tiefling Rogue (Trickster) - The group leans rather heavily on his skill use. So much so, that he's had to go out of his way to get feats and items that augment his rolls. I think that's put a damper on his utility in combat. He excels at out of combat obstacles, and I know the player (and myself) would hesitate to give up that utility.
LG Dwarven Cleric (Guardian) - Had the group's best defense at AC 24, but the vescavor swarms put an end to that. Spends the vast majority of combat keeping the Barbarian's HP in the positives, but they've done all they can to stop the Barbarian from getting hurt. Has a number of abilities that aren't utilized, but I'm not sure how to suggest using them? One of my player's brought up giving each player an assistant to help out at game time?
NG Gnome Summoner (Archmage) - I think spell selection is the issue here. Haste, Slow, Glitterdust, Protection from Evil, and Grease. Haste is nice, but it really only helps the Barbarian. Protection from Evil overlaps too much with the Cleric. Glitterdust is normally nice, but so far has either been resisted, or moot due to Blindfight. From what I gather he's aiming to take Black Tentacles and Summon Monster IV at level 7.
So yeah, any tips on what I should do?
So after our 3rd session of Sword of Valor, I'm a bit stumped on how I can make things easier for my group. I'm not sure if they're a bit disheartened, but the Desecrated Chapel and vescavors were all very difficult encounters for them. Besides having everyone in the negatives (and the Barbarian even hit -21) at some point during this book, they now have to confront the aftermath of the vescavors.
Between them they completely lost, Cloak of Resistance +2, Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2, +1 Blinding Heavy Steel Shield, and a +1 Breastplate, MW Warhammer (of Torag).
Among the broken? Fullplate +1, +1 Evil Outsider Bane Longsword, +1 Cold Iron Longspear, Knight's Pennon (Battle), and a Wand of Magic Missile CL 5th.
I may have missed some other things. But not only that, one of the party members contracted Mania/Phobia, and another one contracted Multiple Personality Disorder (though the player of this is having a grand time).
That was just getting to Drezen. On top of that, they haven't figured out Aron yet. Every encounter since they faced Ilzek and Jaydis have all been over 5 rounds (with Nulkineth and the Vescavor Queen all lasting over 10). I'm just worried that things may be too tough for my group?
I've shared their composition in the past, but I'll post a refresher as a spoiler.
** spoiler omitted **...
My players also had a hard time with the desecrated chapel and the vescavor cave. My party champion was killed by the vescavor queen and all but the party sorcerer went down in the desecrated chapel, but the sorcerer managed to escape using feather fall and get help from the army and other npc's waiting at the bottom of the hill.
I've had a small group of merchants, craftsmen and other non-combat npc's follow the pc's and their army to help them with non-combat tasks like equipment maintenance, cooking, grooming etc. The merchants has also had some supplies for sale with them (which I have created depending upon my party's need, but limited to lesser items like potions, scrolls and wands). Aravashniel has also supplied the pc's with scrolls and wands for a reduced price (and sometimes even for free depending upon the demands of the pc's). I have also had some of the npc's join the players on occasion to help fill out any voids in the pc's skill set. You could f.ex have Aravashniel join to cast darkvision on the party or have him create a scroll or wand with that spell if you don't want him to join your pc's.
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For all +1 items let them cast make whole and repair them as the spell reads.
Or in future sessions don't destroy so much of their loot. I've heard PCs really hate that.
So after our 3rd session of Sword of Valor, I'm a bit stumped on how I can make things easier for my group. I'm not sure if they're a bit disheartened, but the Desecrated Chapel and vescavors were all very difficult encounters for them. Besides having everyone in the negatives (and the Barbarian even hit -21) at some point during this book, they now have to confront the aftermath of the vescavors.
Between them they completely lost, Cloak of Resistance +2, Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2, +1 Blinding Heavy Steel Shield, and a +1 Breastplate, MW Warhammer (of Torag).
Among the broken? Fullplate +1, +1 Evil Outsider Bane Longsword, +1 Cold Iron Longspear, Knight's Pennon (Battle), and a Wand of Magic Missile CL 5th.
I may have missed some other things. But not only that, one of the party members contracted Mania/Phobia, and another one contracted Multiple Personality Disorder (though the player of this is having a grand time).
That was just getting to Drezen. On top of that, they haven't figured out Aron yet. Every encounter since they faced Ilzek and Jaydis have all been over 5 rounds (with Nulkineth and the Vescavor Queen all lasting over 10). I'm just worried that things may be too tough for my group?
I've shared their composition in the past, but I'll post a refresher as a spoiler.
** spoiler omitted **...My players also had a hard time with the desecrated chapel and the vescavor cave. My party champion was killed by the vescavor queen and all but the party sorcerer went down in the desecrated chapel, but the sorcerer managed to escape using feather fall and get help from the army and other npc's waiting at the bottom of the hill.
I've had a small group of merchants, craftsmen and other non-combat npc's follow the pc's and their army to help them with non-combat tasks like equipment maintenance, cooking, grooming etc. The merchants has also had some supplies for sale with them (which I have created depending upon my party's need, but limited to lesser items like...
This is a great idea (the merchants and what not), I'll see what I can do about that.
They've toyed with the idea of bringing along the NPCs, but so far have been reluctant to. Perhaps, I'll have them show a lot more interest than they have been. Sadly Aravashniel and Horgus stayed in Kenebres. So I may have to be slightly more resourceful in that regard.
For all +1 items let them cast make whole and repair them as the spell reads.
Or in future sessions don't destroy so much of their loot. I've heard PCs really hate that.
We typically don't do things like this in our games. This is our first AP, and we decided to play the game with no house rules, and as close to entirely as it was intended (Meaning 15 point buy, Average XP, etc).
Part of that was an agreement on not pulling punches on my part. I've spoken with my players directly on that point, and they still want me to play things as the dice roll. I'll push that where I reasonably can, after all I want everyone to have a good time.
As for Make Whole, I think that was overlooked so thanks for the heads up there!
...So after our 3rd session of Sword of Valor, I'm a bit stumped on how I can make things easier for my group. I'm not sure if they're a bit disheartened, but the Desecrated Chapel and vescavors were all very difficult encounters for them. Besides having everyone in the negatives (and the Barbarian even hit -21) at some point during this book, they now have to confront the aftermath of the vescavors.
Between them they completely lost, Cloak of Resistance +2, Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2, +1 Blinding Heavy Steel Shield, and a +1 Breastplate, MW Warhammer (of Torag).
Among the broken? Fullplate +1, +1 Evil Outsider Bane Longsword, +1 Cold Iron Longspear, Knight's Pennon (Battle), and a Wand of Magic Missile CL 5th.
I may have missed some other things. But not only that, one of the party members contracted Mania/Phobia, and another one contracted Multiple Personality Disorder (though the player of this is having a grand time).
That was just getting to Drezen. On top of that, they haven't figured out Aron yet. Every encounter since they faced Ilzek and Jaydis have all been over 5 rounds (with Nulkineth and the Vescavor Queen all lasting over 10). I'm just worried that things may be too tough for my group?
I've shared their composition in the past, but I'll post a refresher as a spoiler.
** spoiler omitted **...My players also had a hard time with the desecrated chapel and the vescavor cave. My party champion was killed by the vescavor queen and all but the party sorcerer went down in the desecrated chapel, but the sorcerer managed to escape using feather fall and get help from the army and other npc's waiting at the bottom of the hill.
I've had a small group of merchants, craftsmen and other non-combat npc's follow the pc's and their army to help them with non-combat tasks like equipment maintenance, cooking, grooming etc. The merchants has also had some supplies for sale with them (which I have created depending upon my party's need, but
You could also have some npc's with item crafting feats follow the army or give Sosiel some item crafting feats (or have him retrain some feats) or encourage the pc's to take them (they could always retrain later), this will allow them to repair broken items if they meet the requirements and have the money.
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What I may do when I run WotR is craft an encounter of suitable difficulty for the party, composed of the creatures they fight (and maybe the opposing army's general). Then I describe the fight between the armies as akin to the actual fight between the PCs and their foes.
Though that might be difficult to pull off seeing that I'm not sure how to determine the CR of an Army, especially when it may have several advantages due to NPCs joining them. But I can always just wing it. ^^;;
Tangent, I would use the troop subtype found in
** spoiler omitted **
With this, you can take any lesser CR creature and turn them into a CR worthy of fighting for the group. The rules for it are pretty easy, so creating them is worth it. I did this for my group using hobgoblins when I introduced Red Hand of Doom into my Kingmaker AP. It works very well.
Just a thought.
I'm going to try this in my Wrath game that starts tonight. I'll post the stats for the paladin army and their opponents later, when I get them written up (I do have an entire book to get through before it comes up).
Citadel Drezen: Up and to the left of F9 is a room full of rubble and a breach in the wall....Is this breach supposed to be passable, giving the PCs an easy way in, or is it supposed to be collapsed?Collapsed.
If you're looking for alternative ways in (other than the front door), there's the ruined tower at F23 (which Soltengrebbe used as his lair) and the ruined parapet at F14 (which is still guarded by a host of brimoraks). You could also try to breach the doors at F9b or F11b. All of these locations would require a means for accessing the ramparts there (i.e., spider climb, levitate, fly, difficult Climb checks, etc.).
Not sure if this is mentioned somewhere else, but what is the height of these parapets?
Not sure if this is mentioned somewhere else, but what is the height of these parapets?Citadel Drezen: Up and to the left of F9 is a room full of rubble and a breach in the wall....Is this breach supposed to be passable, giving the PCs an easy way in, or is it supposed to be collapsed?Collapsed.
If you're looking for alternative ways in (other than the front door), there's the ruined tower at F23 (which Soltengrebbe used as his lair) and the ruined parapet at F14 (which is still guarded by a host of brimoraks). You could also try to breach the doors at F9b or F11b. All of these locations would require a means for accessing the ramparts there (i.e., spider climb, levitate, fly, difficult Climb checks, etc.).
Anyone have any info on this? From what I gather, there is the huge ramp that leads up to the Citadel. I'm not sure what the grade is, but it can't be steep enough to impede players as I'm sure that would be mentioned.
Then inside there are stairs leading up to the two southern parapets, I don't recall if there is for the others. So I'm guessing like 40'?
Also, does this mean that the dungeon isn't underground, but instead in the foundation?
I ran them as 50' tall and I don't think it is so much a ramp as a funnel entrance way, it may be raised 10' or so off the ground.
The "dungeon" is underground, in the AP it says it is about 40' or so below ground.
Cool, thanks!
Contributor
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Hmm... if the cleric prepares the right spells, she might be able to fry a few. You could also have someone - the Queen, the wizard, whomever - suggest purchasing one or more swarmbane clasps. If the party is low on money, the Crusade might even provide some, counting on the paladin's honor to ensure eventual repayment.
They were more of an encounter timer for my group. Clerics also have access to windwall that can keep swarms at bay. So I used extra swarms to build tension on my group.
I've also seen groups stealth in and go straight for the Queen, assuming they pass their knowledge checks or Aron is friendly enough to offer up that advice.
Outside of that vials of holy water will do the trick. And the chapel contains pounds upon pounds of powdered silver which just so happens to be the component of Bless Water.
Or was it the Grey Garrison that had the silver? I can't remember.
EDIT: And like Seannoss' experience my group cast haste and ran to the queen. They tried to kill her as fast as possible, but the swarms ate some gear and drove the Summoner mad (and he still is). I don't recommend this option for parties.
They don't really have the haste possibility, though I might let the blind elf cast it (if they ask for a scroll for him).
I am just not sure what they will do on their own to get through that area, it might be the toughest overall for them as 2 players are also pretty new to pathfinder.
Grey Garrison had a lot of silver, I think our gunslinger went as far as telling the others that he is not interested in carrying that much crap... or something along those lines.
Edit: just checked, Nulkineth has 710 silver in the cathedral.
Yeah, I remember I had an NPC drop a hint that the silver might be useful in making Holy Water (which Aron confirmed would work on the Vescavors). But I'd forgotten where that silver came from. I think I conflated the Onyx Gems Jestak had on her (which she used to reanimate that minotaur, fun times) and the silver Nulkineth had. So thanks for clearing that up!
Don't forget swarms take +50% extra damage from Holy Water so it's 3 - 12 damage per hit. And 710 gp worth of silver (or was it 710 sp worth of silver) creates 28 Holy Waters. Which should be plenty of stock to face the Vescavors with. Also, I think there was a scroll of windwall somewhere either at the end of Book 1?
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What I did in a similar situation, is I gave my party of five four swarmbane clasps from Aravashnial, because he foresaw the party's lack of swarm-fighting capability as a problem going up against Deskari's forces.
But then, Nurah found out about his plan and sneaked into his tent to replace two of them with fakes (using four castings of Magic Aura to remove the aura from the two real ones and place auras on the fakes).
Then, aside from the ninja, everyone was knocked out by Soltengrebbe and thrown in the dungeon, where Nurah took the other two clasps and cast magic aura on all four fakes.
They didn't find out until they convinced her to join them after killing Staunton (twice! because they didn't check his room for treasure), and they ran into a tick swarm when returning to the chapel, because it was only then that the paladin got the idea to restore it (I forgot they were compelled to). Nurah was with them, so she gave them a warning when ticks started to gather. They decided to stay anyway, and a few hours later the bard was dead from blood loss. She and the magus of Ragathiel didn't talk to her for a while after that.
I love the opportunity provided by Nurah. My players didn't suspect a thing until after she locked them in the false vault, when she fought them alongside Staunton.
<3 Nurah too, though she nearly broke my group's morale, but they're recovering. =D
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I've been betraying and deceiving the PCs relentlessly. They even fell for "Iomedae" in the Drezen chapel.
Basically, I want them to doubt Arueshalae like mad, rather than just go "Well, she's pretty, so we'll trust her."
Hahahahaha
EDIT: ACK! You responded on that thread and gave some great advice! Sorry it has been many months since I've ran that session and by extension read that section of that thread.
Yes, please do!
Well, after some longer break my group will play on saturday again, I plan on running the bridge encounter together with Soltengrebe and after that they will probably go for the fortress and here is the point where I start to ponder...
It seems like an extremely large dungeon crawl with relatively little roleplay opportunity in between (the exception being Stauntons brother and the succubus that disguises herself).
Did you all do the complete dungeon? Did you cut content uhm I mean combat from it?
I know that I want to do the Staunton encounter and the Shadowdemon encounter, but I am not 100% sure what other encounters should be there and what not, it just seems to overcrowded and would probably take several game sessions to get through just combat if I play it all or most of it.
For the time up to this point:
The paladine misbehaved during the meeting with the Queen and shamed the barbarian, first and only warning for him as it goes against the codex of Iomedae.
They were able to keep track of Nurah, though they always got discovered on their own, so there were no chances for the demon blood to come into play, but they also have no real evidence that she might be an enemy.
The fights at the destroyed chapel were not going in their favor as they split up and 2 nearly died (barbarian and monk), but the groups paladine and cleric got them out of the trouble.
The cavern went okay with a circle of protection from evil and they were able to blow the gate up before the vrock went through thanks to some black powder of the gunslinger.
They lost a lot of soldiers during the night attacks when they arrived at Drezen and it took them very long to take out the graveyard.
The upper level of Citadel Drezen with Staunton and all is loads of fun specifically because many of the creatures there are "eccentric" and provide some hilarious roleplaying opportunities before they fight, or even *if* they fight. (I personally love Kiranda.)
The dungeon looks like a grind, but as mentioned previously, the creatures are woefully under-CR'ed, so it's a chance for the party to feel like the "big powerful heroes" as they steamroll everything.
If combats run slowly for you, by all means remove a few of the more boring fights from the upper level (the graven guardians come to mind), but most of the upper-level fights have a sense of whimsy and humor that make them fun. (Through two run-throughs of Sword of Valor the mimic fight has been a favorite of both sets of players.)
On the other hand, both groups have found the dungeon out-and-out boring, especially such "vanilla" characters as Chorussina and the vampire (who was so memorable I STILL can't remember his name...)
snip
Did you all do the complete dungeon? Did you cut content uhm I mean combat from it?I know that I want to do the Staunton encounter and the Shadowdemon encounter, but I am not 100% sure what other encounters should be there and what not, it just seems to overcrowded and would probably take several game sessions to get through just combat if I play it all or most of it.
snip
The upper level of Citadel Drezen with Staunton and all is loads of fun specifically because many of the creatures there are "eccentric" and provide some hilarious roleplaying opportunities before they fight, or even *if* they fight. (I personally love Kiranda.)
The dungeon looks like a grind, but...
My party went the other way...they came in through the tower and hit the Vhane brothers very early (after the thoxel and minotaurs). They then went into dungeon and cleared it out. At that point, the upstairs was kind of pointless - so I had most of the named or intelligent folks run away rather than fight someone who could take out Staunton. I kept Barrid at the gate with the archers so that they could have closure on his account. I also kept the mimic and the graven guardians (where would they go?).
The vampire was memorable because of the negative levels he inflicted which made a difference when fighting Eustoryiax, resulting in the death of Aril, the party ninja.
Likewise, Chorussina was interesting because the wizard pulled out a perfectly timed dimension door to drop the paladin behind the wall of force, pretty much perfectly negating all of her tactics. The frustration on my face as I saw all her tactics evaporate was ample reward for everyone.
The vampire spawn and salamanders were not particularly useful except to drain some resources before Eustoryiax.
Every party is a bit different.
Considering that my party did things yet another way, the obvious advice is that your party will have their own style for this.
Although, I will agree that the bottom half is terribly boring without much challenge. Due to my party's method (and to speed things up) I had the vampire attack them at camp with some mythic shadows.
The also had an RP encounter with the barbarian, who they recruited, as they didn't find her until the very last of the citadel was cleared.
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I had the ghosts or specters or whatever the party med in the upper portion of the dungeon be like the Marley Brothers from a Muppets Christmas Carol. They just wanted their bodies back and taken out to be buried, I had them follow the party around and give advice and tell the party how they were going to die as well from behind.
The Group liked it, I had Chorussina put the wall of force at the door seperating the party, didn't end well for her since the party wiz put a Evards Black Tenticles down.
As for the Shadow Demon he just hid in the walls and just moved out when he needed too, the party retreated and used readied actions to combat him, took a while but they did down him, they didn't even get near the Sword of Valor until the end.
Just drop the encounter entirely, have the remaining armies abandon Staunton to his fate. That leaves the focus on the players and the style of play they prefer. You could always say they were called to the Southern border to help in the Demon's campaign against Mendev there.
Outside of that you could have Soltengrebbe swoop in and kill/scare (where applicable) off the remaining troops. If you haven't run that encounter yet it might intimidate the PCs a bit, as it well should!
Or have an NPC take charge of the army and determine the outcome of the battles before your next session. Then you could lead with a narrative on how that went down, and it would give you time to highlight Irabeth or other NPCs.
Other than those suggestions I've heard other groups have had some success with the troop rules? But I'm not familiar with those, and it sounds like the ship has sailed for learning a new rule set for the last time it'll ever matter in the AP.
Here's hoping that people are still watching this forum thread.
I am still a new GM and this is only my second time running a campaign. We are currently running through this path and the players are coming up on the fight in the courtyard of Drezen Citadel and I am stuck. After trying the Mass Combat rules our group decided to not use them because they did not work with our play style. I have been able to come up with individual fights and events for all the other mass combat situations and kept the actual army in the background but I am at a loss as to how to create an encounter for this particular fight.
While having a fight with dozens of tokens is interesting (I did that for the actual fall of Kenabres in front of the cathedral) it really slows down the pace of the game. I am hoping that someone may have had an idea for this or someone here has already done this.
Suggestions please?
I've also been avoiding the mass combat rules and instead just having the party fight the leaders of each enemy army while the rest of the battle happens in the background. For the courtyard (which is coming up in my campaign - they're currently in mid-siege), they'll be encountering Zenilakiri (the Drow Demonic Champion antipaladin from the Monster Codex) and Aspartin (her 9th level necromancer lover), plus a sprinkling of tieflings, dretches and cultists.
So, I don't know if people are still responding regularly in this thread, but I had a question about Mass Combat roles (since my players really enjoy the Army aspect). It's suggested that the players can pick either a PC or an NPC to be the commander of their army, but it doesn't mention anything about a General. I assume the reason for that is that the General is really just a figurehead without any mechanical benefit (almost a direct quote from Ultimate Campaign). My question is whether I should suggest that my Leadership-focused player be a commander of one Army, and then use NPCs for (I assume) future armies, or if I should suggest that he be the General more for flavor than actual mechanical benefit. I understand that this is mostly a matter of preference, more for the player than anything else, but I think being a General sounds cooler and more thematically appropriate for Mythic Heroes, and that's balanced against wanting to make sure he gets an actual mechanical benefit from Leadership, etc.
So, I don't know if people are still responding regularly in this thread, but I had a question...
I don't know that there's any right way or wrong way to go about it, Memento. I think you've got a couple of different choices you can make with it. Originally, I had envisioned each PC being in charge of their own battalion rather than a single army. That way, they could be the commander and influence them with their own mechanical benefits (if they had any). So, if you go that route, I'd suggest giving any ranged-combat PC an archer battalion, any mounted-combat PC a cavalry unit, any melee-oriented PC a footsoldier battalion, and so on. Even arcane-oriented or divine-oriented PCs could be in charge of a reserve force or special unit. Bottom line, your "general" would likely be in charge of at least one of those battalions so he can lead from the front lines and be an inspiration for everyone else (especially if he's a cavalier with the banner ability). But, if you want the general to stay behind the lines and primarily be the strategist sending messages to his battalion commanders, there's not a whole of lot mechanical underpinnings to that role (at least in terms of mass combat). At best, my suggestion would be to let him influence a given battalion's actions on the field with timely reinforcements, new strategies and observations communicated from afar, etc. Then, let that kind of impact translate to a free re-roll or other benefit in how a given battalion performs. I don't expect your general would get many opportunities to utilize that kind of power, though. Once the battle is joined, it's a lot harder to improvise or make a larger impact. That's why sound strategy before a battle is so important. And, really, that's where your general should shine...as well as the decision for when to sound the retreat, regroup, and assess new strategies for the next battle.
But that's just my two cents,
--Neil
Perfect, that's exactly what I was looking for. I really like the idea of giving each PC a specialized battalion.
Perfect, that's exactly what I was looking for. I really like the idea of giving each PC a specialized battalion.
I thought that would be a nice way to ensure that every player had a "PC" in the form of a battalion to run during the mass combat events. And, then, during the one-on-one battles, they'd revert to using their actual PC even as they continued to take actions for their army. It makes the mass combat a bit more complicated (as it's no longer one army versus another), but it also helps with survivability of the PCs' armies, because they gain more actions/synergy by ganging up on the enemy armies they encounter.
RE: Soltengrebbe -- you wrote:
HP reset to 2/3rds max
I'm just learning the Mythic Ruleset - is this something you added or something I missed? Cuz you mentioned not having enough points to do this trick again...
Thanks,