I'm sure there are quite a few ways to do it, but for some reason I'm drawing a blank. Probably because I've never played the class before. How would you role play a paladin differently than the annoying and overly strict ones I keep reading about?
I've seen threads where people have said that they don't have to be played that way, so I'm looking for examples on said paladins.
Just curious.
Don't overexert about things. Play it cool. Don't pick fights, and when someone wants to sneak around or break into fights, just say "Guys, I got this" and Diplomacy Check the hell out of them. When your compatriots or NPCs do stuff you don't like, rather than sentencing them to life in prison for one crime, or to death for two, politely (as to remain lawful) tell them that you disprove of their choices. My paladins have a tendency to say "that sh*t ain't cool man" a lot. You don't have to be forceful about your beliefs, but make sure they are known, and if you do enough for the party to where they feel they need you and don't wanna face the idea of adventuring without you then chances are they will shape up, and respect your beliefs. In the end, live by example, and don't hold prejudice or pretense. A little naivete from dumping your WIS stat would mean you have the ability to believe that everyone has good in them, and you are often willing to hand out second chances.
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I have not played a paladin since about 1982, AD&D. Partially this is a matter of still grieving for the death of my first, who I played pretty steadily for two years. But, I also think it's a class that tends to require the cooperation of the rest of the gaming group to play as intended.
I've toyed with trying again, and may at some point. But all of my PF gaming is PFS, and I really don't see how to play one in that environment without compromising something.
I recognize these are pretty strong statements, and maybe I'm just not being creative enough. I'm curious to see replies from others.
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Angry, hateful, and militant.
"But Alba!" you might say, "Paladins aren't supposed to be driven by hate and anger!"
Yeah, so what? Mortals have flaws. What a character strives to be or do is important as well. Do be the perfection of what a paladin is without effort is boring. Maybe even a Mary Sue. I play Paladin's as someone who is trying there hardest to be a good person, buy maybe they don't always do that well.
Look for some of the classic archetypes. They help a lot.
If you are a comic book fan think Capatain America.
If you are into sci-fi think Jedi.
If you like the classics think Lancelot (The class was pretty much based on him, Galahad and Roland anyway)
None of these are quite the same but they all have the flavor of what it means to be a Paladin. They are "special" different from those around them and don't quite fit in. They do their best to follow a code whether it be religious or personal. They are human and don't always follow the code. Because they are not perfect they have flaws and are constantly striving. The key is in the striving.
Soemthing else I always think about paladins...regular humans think about right and wrong but also easy and hard. A paladin only thinks about right and wrong. That does not mean that a paladin can not pick between easy and hard as long as both are "right" but this often makes it appear to others that Paladins only pick the hard way.
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Depends on which god you worship and the codes they set down for you. If using the Golarion setting, Faiths of Purity, page 26, has the Paladin codes for the most well known good gods. The codes are very different in how a Paladin would be played. For example:
The paladins of Iomedae are just and strong. Their
mission is to right wrongs and eliminate evil at its root.
They are crusaders and live for the joy of righteous battle.
They serve as examples to others, and their code demands
they protect the weak and innocent by eliminating sources
of oppression, rather than the symptoms. They may back
down or withdraw from a fight if they are overmatched,
but if their lives will buy time for others to escape, they
must give them. Their tenets include:
• I will learn the weight of my sword. Without my heart
to guide it, it is worthless—my strength is not in my
sword, but in my heart. If I lose my sword, I have lost a
tool. If I betray my heart, I have died.
• I will have faith in the Inheritor. I will channel her
strength through my body. I will shine in her legion,
and I will not tarnish her glory through base actions.
• I am the first into battle, and the last to leave it.
• I will not be taken prisoner by my free will. I will not
surrender those under my command.
• I will never abandon a companion, though I will honor
sacrifice freely given.
• I will guard the honor of my fellows, both in thought
and deed, and I will have faith in them.
• When in doubt, I may force my enemies to surrender,
but I am responsible for their lives.
• I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give
honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest.
• I will suffer death before dishonor.
• I will be temperate in my actions and moderate in my
behavior. I will strive to emulate Iomedae's perfection.
Now check the Paladin Code for Sarenrae:
The paladins of the Dawnflower are fierce warriors, like
their goddess. They provide hope to the weak and support
to the righteous. Their tenets include:
• I will protect my allies with my life. They are my light
and my strength, as I am their light and their strength.
We rise together.
• I will seek out and destroy the spawn of the Rough
Beast. If I cannot defeat them, I will give my life trying.
If my life would be wasted in the attempt, I will find
allies. If any fall because of my inaction, their deaths
lie upon my soul, and I will atone for each.
• I am fair to others. I expect nothing for myself but that
which I need to survive.
• The best battle is a battle I win. If I die, I can no longer
fight. I will fight fairly when the fight is fair, and I will
strike quickly and without mercy when it is not.
• I will redeem the ignorant with my words and my
actions. If they will not turn toward the light, I will
redeem them by the sword.
• I will not abide evil, and will combat it with steel when
words are not enough. I do not flinch from my faith,
and do not fear embarrassment. My soul cannot be
bought for all the stars in the sky.
• I will show the less fortunate the light of the
Dawnflower. I will live my life as her mortal blade,
shining with the light of truth.
• Each day is another step toward perfection. I
will not turn back into the dark.
Obviously, each had different ideals on how their Paladins would handle the same situation. This is a good starting point, use the codes as guidelines.
Personality wise I always run them very devoted to their cause, beliefs and hobbies, and somewhat extreme character nature when supporting these ideals.
For example if they believe protection of innocence is the greatest cause ever, then I make them really hateful of anyone who ever harms innocence, sometimes attacking a target when they are already down.
Or if they enjoy drinking, then they REALLY enjoy drinking and frequently challenge people to drinking contests.
This comes from the fact that paladins have to be lawful good, which is one of the 4 extreme alignments, thus their personality should be a little extreme
And on that note, would anyone here consider the trade off of a Paladins Medium and Heavy armor proficiency for the Monks "AC Bonus (Ex)" ability fair?
I had a lot of fun playing a Paladin as naive, gullible, and willing to forgive anyone who was really sorry for what they did and was willing to work to make amends for their past evil... or who made the appropriate bluff check.
Personally, to me the paladin code is essentially the LG alignment for dumm.. I mean, warriors :) . Compared to most people (the majority is often neutral), they are quite honorable, altruistic, reliable, and in the end of it all, they choose the proper path, but at the end of the day, they are human (or demihuman). There is still a wide variety of characters - grim or joking, naive or jaded, laid-back or intense.
I'd probably aim for something like Captain Carrot from the Discworld novels. This guy was prime paladin material - naive at first, usually forgiving, proper, and larger than life.
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Personally,
I would play a Paladin who was the classic quiet strong good guy. Not the pompous jerk type. The type of guy who doesn't start a fight, who doesn't preach, he just lives his life as an example. In towns, he volunteers to help the locals, if he sees a widow working a field, he'd stop and help if he could, and if not, he'd keep her in mind in case he runs into someone who can help her. He'd not wear the flashy armor, even if he had Mithral armor, he'd cover it up or paint it so it didn't look flashy. Good home spun wool is fine, and no need to go armored unless you're expecting trouble.
He'd be the type to hate fighting, but be willing to do it without hesitation to protect others or fight evil. He'd be the type to want to redeem, not obliterate. Doesn't mean he'd turn a blind eye to a party member stealing from innocent people. At best, he'd insist the guy steal from crooks and slavers instead. :)
Which is why I probably won't play a paladin any time soon. You have to be in a group you can trust to play sucha player. While it's not that I can't trust the group I play with, I just know a few of them well enough to know that they'd be trying to push the envelope to see how far they could go (IC that is).
I think the most important thing about playing a Paladin is to remember that you're better than everyone else!
Which is to say, don't hold others to your standards. Unless everyone else is also a Paladin then don't begrudge them for having weaknesses. Others have already said it but be an example. You should act in such a way that if everyone did what you do then the world would be a better place.
Like a militant tobacco chewing/spitting no nonsense step on the bad guys, straight ahead ain't got time to bleed bad ass!
is how I would roleplay a paladin.gruff. charitable but trying to act like he doesn't enjoy it. Crushing evil enemies of the faith and so forth.
Why not?
Question. Is it evil to enjoy killing evil?
I ask, because I sort of imagine a man who lives his days straining to be a good man, but the only time he truly enjoys himself, is when he is destroying evil in battle.
Oh not this again. Does it always come back to this?
I'll leave that internal debate for the Drow Ranger and stick to crushing demons thanks.
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Look, everybody, if you're "roleplaying" a paladin, you're doing it wrong. There's no playing at being a paladin, you either are or you aren't!
For a fine example of paladin-ing, look at myself as the epitome of what paladinhood has to offer. I've shared the ways of law and goodness here on these forums several times already; feel free to look at what I've said and sally forth to wreak justice on the world!
As for Third Mind's question...
Is it evil to enjoy killing evil?
This strikes me as one of those questions meant to trip we paladins up and make us fall, and as such, I'm detecting evil on you as we speak. Until I get a good read, though, I'll say this--if it's evil, it's a paladin's job to smite it. And smite it some more. And keep on smiting it, regardless of odds or survival, until it's so smitten that it's dead and gone on to whatever terrible evil fate awaits it! So, no, it isn't evil to kill evil, nor is it evil to enjoy doing so. You think I'd do this if I didn't like doing it?
*Sallies forth to spread the word of how to be a paladin*
How bout I ( the player) am loving every gory second of smashing skulls reaving limbs and crushing ribcages.
Yet I (The character) am simply doing my god given duty and take no pleasure other than that of serving my god to the letter.
Well that's good. I'm beginning to see more room for paladin roleplaying thanks to the comments / answers.
As for the enjoying killing evil question, just pretend I didn't post it and I'll enjoy killing evil.
Good stuff so far everyone! Heck, I may even make a back up character that's a paladin after I nail down his personality.
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It seems to me Paladins should be all about redemption. The evil act is forgiven in hopes of the actor being converted to the paladins religion.
The evil being is always given a chance to cry for mercy and salvation from the evil that motivates it. If none of this happens its the paladins job to eradicate the evil it encounters. He should have no tolerance for evil beyond that.
This only applies if the paladin is motivated by religious duty only. Some paladins also believe that they have a political rhetoric to live up to that somehow their religion has adopted.
It can get complicated. Just look at how politics and religion divide people in real life and you will know what I mean.
How would I make a paladin? Well to start I'd change my name to MrVirtue...
Kidding aside, I'm not big on the militant types or the types who tell you how to play or what to do. I prefer a more laid back approach. I want a nice guy who treats everyone, even the worst of man, with a smile and respect.
I should note different deities have different codes for paladins. Torag doesn't seem to like taking survivors. Saranrae is all about forgiveness though.
Talk to your DM about making a paladin. Different DMs have different expectations. I've met DMs who won't let you kill anything or you fall. I've met DMs who won't let you let your teammates do anything he deems evil or he threatens to make you fall. I've met DMs who make you fall for taking an infernal healing. I know plenty of DMs who set up moral situations just because your a paladin, and tends to forget about the rest of the party when he does it. I've rarely met a DM who just lets you play.
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It seems to me Paladins should be all about redemption. The evil act is forgiven in hopes of the actor being converted to the paladins religion.
The evil being is always given a chance to cry for mercy and salvation from the evil that motivates it. If none of this happens its the paladins job to eradicate the evil it encounters. He should have no tolerance for evil beyond that.
This only applies if the paladin is motivated by religious duty only. Some paladins also believe that they have a political rhetoric to live up to that somehow their religion has adopted.
It can get complicated. Just look at how politics and religion divide people in real life and you will know what I mean.
To give a better example:
Sir paladin knight hails from a kingdom that taxes people beyond what seems reasonable in everyone eyes. But being a lawful good guy from said kingdom sir paladin see's the peoples reluctance to pay the taxes as an evil act.
Although the people may be good they feel the taxes are not justified. But sir paladin see's it as people breaking the law of what is good and right and expects everyone to pay these unreasonable taxes because of his religions political affiliation with the kingdom.
Pretend that your paladin is Superman, and all the heavy lifting is done for you (and I'm talking about the REAL Superman, not this "new 52" crap).
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Question. Is it evil to enjoy killing evil?
I ask, because I sort of imagine a man who lives his days straining to be a good man, but the only time he truly enjoys himself, is when he is destroying evil in battle.
Check with your GM. There is a huge amount of table variation in the extent to which Paladins are expected to show mercy to evil creatures.
Always a good idea to talk with your GM about your character concept, especially when playing a paladin (or any other class with a fall condition - cleric, druid, inquisitor, monk, or barbarian - the paladin is just the most sensitive).
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MrSin's advice about talking this over with your DM first is an excellent plan. I feel like I have been quite fortunate in avoiding those DMs who might have made it difficult or impossible to play a paladin.
As for role-playing advice, I think it's helpful to give your paladin a little bit more focus than simply smite all evil, everywhere. This might come from the particular deity that you choose to revere, or it could be explained by part of your backstory.
- You might have a paladin of Torag who is all about honorable combat. Killing wouldn't bother such a paladin as long as it was done "right".
- You might have a paladin of Shelyn, who is all about protecting art and artists. Perhaps defacing a painting or statue is among the worst possible sins to this paladin, who might be willing to forgive acts that other paladins take more seriously.
- You might have a paladin who was born a common peasant, who is all about protecting the little guy from any sort of oppressive rulership.
- You might have a paladin who had a bit of a wild, playboy youth and now seeks to give everyone relationship advice.
There's lots of directions you could go, but try to give your paladin something more specific than a generic force for good. I find that when I play paladins, I tend to think of them like offensive linemen. They're there to stand in front, and take a beating, so that everyone else can do their job more effectively. They don't get on the highlight reel very often, but you miss them when they're not there.
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I always liked Sparhawk and the knights from that David Eddings series. They were, for all intents and purposes, paladins. They could even use magic in li tied ways due to their belief.
Best of all, they were badass, had real human weaknesses, acted like warriors including swearing etc, and had no qualms in punishing the pupertrayers of evil.
I like Paladins like that.
I also suggest reading the codes provided for each god in the faiths of purity. Paladins of Torag, for example, can do almost anything in defence of their people and in pursuing the destruction of their racial enemies. Torag doesn't see it as evil to put a whole tribe of goblins in a pit and set fire to them, babies or not. Some of the other lawful good gods would probably be upset by that though.
Cheers
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The 3 sword knights from the Dresden files are great examples.
I really want to play a secular humanist paladin like Sanya.
Deed of Paksennarrion has great paladin examples too.
Steal the best parts of Michael Carpenter (The Dresden Files, some Shiro too from that series), a dash of Keldorn (Baldur's Gate 2), and a little of Sturm Brightblade (dragonlance) and you should do ok if you adapt as needed for the exact deity. In other words my ideal Paladin is a humble servant not an arrogant blowhard, self-sacrificing (but not stupidly so), dedicated to an ideal, living an example not just preaching and nagging one, and above all human (or, y'know, elf, dwarf, whatever). My ideal paladin makes mistakes, s/he's human (again, elf, dwarf, maybe mortal/fallible would be a better word) after all, but the paladin I want to play isn't stuck between perfection and failing. My paladin is about striving for that perfection every day despite knowing you can't live up to it, rising above the failures and learning from each one so you don't make the same failure.
Anyways, that's the paladin I want to play, but it's definitely not the only way to play one.
Generally a paladin is expected to be somewhat more lawful and good than say, a lawful good fighter. If your LG fighter is say 75th percentile good and 75th percentile lawful on your campaign scales, your paladin should be a notch or two better, perhaps 80th or 85th, perhaps even 90th on one but not the other. A paladin will feel significantly more good or lawful than most of the people, particularly adventurers who are accustomed to have to make difficult choices or do dirty work that you run into.
This is actually a good example of why to talk to your GM. There are expectations in place before you even make one. Some GMs won't even think a LG fighter could be more lawful or good than a paladin. When someone talks like this, there's a decent chance they'll hold you to their morals and ideas, which may be radically different than your own. It makes being a paladin special. It can also mean its laden with land mines. Sometimes to a GM its more about his paladin, than about your character. No offence EWHM, I obviously have no idea how you operate.
How bout I ( the player) am loving every gory second of smashing skulls reaving limbs and crushing ribcages.
Yet I (The character) am simply doing my god given duty and take no pleasure other than that of serving my god to the letter.
If you like cracking evil skulls Chronicle of the Righteous offers you the empyreal lord Ragathiel.
Basically, in order to gain his divine boon, you must sacrifice an evil being who has committed an evil or unlawful deed. This doesn't need to be wholly brutal; there are some ways of approaching it that can make you a wrathful and awesome hero without making you a serial killer. I really like angles that others have been making in threads here and here; a LG paladin of Ragathiel wouldn't be killing every day - instead, she/he would only gain her/his boons when they needed it most.
It might be an interesting turn from the "redeemer" trope and push you into the "avenger" trope that you seem to be interested in pursuing.
And now I'M interested in playing a LG paladin of Ragthiel...leave it to Mikaze to convince me that being good could be fun :D
I basically played it like a LG fighter with extra abilities. There was no talk of 'Falling'. I guess we played the Paladin more like a Knight than the Paladin I read in these forums with the codes and such.
Step 1) Spill white out all over the Paladin code in the CRB. The CRB code is for the lawful neutral at best. Honor is the mortal sin of pride tidied up and gilt. Chivalry is for games. Only the evil consider war a game.
Step 2) Find a calling and a purpose that you and your GM agree is good and write a code that relates to that calling. If your paladin is called to serve justice your code needs to define your jurisdiction and what to do about corrupt authorities and what limits you place on yourself to prevent you from becoming an agent of injustice in appearance or fact. If your paladin is called to defend your society from external threats your code should tell you what the limits of your actions should be and how to identify an existential threat against which there should be no limits. You may choose to tack on decorative fripperies like chastity or not depending on how you view paladinhood, but they should never be things that can interfere with fulfilling your purpose the way the default honor code can.
I like this guy.
Naive, having lived a sheltered life if unrealistic ideals.
As he adventures, he learns that life isn't so simple.
No matter what, tho, he always tries his best and prays for guidance.
He's also a bit of a preacher, pushing his god in hopes of gaining conversions.
Strives to make friends in every town, out of fear that he might have to sacrifice his righteousness (and power) for a cause. He wants a place nearby to hide out, pray and regain his connection if that happens.
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I cut and pasted this from another post I just finished, where the discussion was about a new Bard character build. His party needed more beef and probably more healing, and I suggested this as an alternative to his idea of a melee Bard.
As far as moral quandries go, I believe the Paladin class is asking for this type of story line by it's very nature: The Paladin must not only defeat visible external Evil, but also the Evil within himself. If you don't want to go there, then don't play a Pally.
By the way, D'artagnon had a "special salve" for sword wounds that his mother gave him, and Athos was a priest before and after he spent time as a Musketeer, so the healing and clerical side of this concept is well-established.
Also, the word "Musketeer" is a bit of a misnomer, as they relied chiefly on their swords, the muskets only being carried in times of war.
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Eldon Guyre was a humble man who always expected more of himself than he did others...who gave of himself whenever possible. He was always willing to accept redemption, but fought evil at every turn...he wasn't much for the pompous 'Repent or DIE' sort of thing, preferring to be more soft-spoken...and he was accepting of chaos, just not from himself. He was dependable and forthright...but tactful, as well.
He was truly an ideal, though an imperfect one from time to time.
I've played a few paladins, and they've varied, but he was my favorite.
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As the old spice guy