I actually greatly prefer the Dazing Assault feat. It's a weaker effect, but unlike stunning there's nearly NOTHING immune to it and you can get it 4 levels earlier. Not sure I'd ever even get Stunning Assault; it feels redundant w/ Dazing Assault and no way would I give up the trick that works on everything.This. Daze affects everything.
Perhaps one reason Stunning Assault is placed higher than Dazing Assault is the fact that a stunned opponent can be taken advantage of. They essentially do the same thing by negating your opponent's next turn (which we're all in favor of), but being dazed does just that. Having your opponent stunned, however, will let other folks come in and high-five you for setting them up for a good attack. (I'm looking at you, Rogues and Medusa's Wrath)
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I believe the answer is, of course, 'since schroedigner's wizard can do X at level Y, then all concerns about things martials can do are irrelevant and you should feel dumb for even thinking about it.'
Clearly.
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I don't see issue with this feat. Sure it's good but you can't take it till level 16 as you need 16 BAB. So the save DC 26 at that level and most CR appropriate encounters will have 18+ on their fortitude save which could be even higher if they have specifics bonuses or immunities, like construct, oozes, plants, undead, and elementals for example. For the lower saves those encounters are considered to be easy so this feat should be very effective on CR 16 encounter. It will be less effect for CR 19.
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Here is why I think it isn't broken.
1. You are 16th level.
2. -5 is fairly substantial. And remember you also have a -5 if you power attack, meaning if you combine this with power attack you have a -10, and if you don't you lose a substantial amount of damage.
3. The save DC expectations for CR 16 creatures are High +19 and low +14.
It's good. But at 16th level it is supposed to be good. It is a good pick up combined with furious focus for a move and attack thing, particularly on a charge as you get +2 back on the attack, but not so great in a full attack situation where you either take -10 to all your attack or lose potentially 15 damage an attack and still have the -5.
I don't think it's broken.
My Nodachi Weapon master (we played a Tian game) was really able to bring some serious pain with the Dazing assault (which I prefer to stunning assault) and Combat Reflexes, Lunge, and Stunning Critical. He'd line them up while the Katana wielding tengu Swordmaster rogue with Slaying Sprint would wipe them out.
Overall, a nasty combo. But the Assault feats are definitely not broken. It's a great way for a character with a low critical chance (through a x3 or x4 weapon) to really lay on some status effects. A weaponmaster with a Tetsubo can lay the pain, but not much by way of status simply because of the infrequency of the criticals.
I think it's a great way of balancing things out.
umm dazing assault and stunning assault, have nothing to do with criticals. If you get the attack, the enemy gets a fort save. if they fail, the enemy is dazed/stunned. i'm not seeing how a high critical, or low critical weapon has anything to do with that.
Stunned does more but Daze affects everything. Casters with No SR spells can Daze Golems for example.
I fixed that in my game by making anything immune to stuns immune to being dazed as well.
Well someone asked for a thread necro a year down the road...
I can't believe nobody saw it but, obviously, these feats don't work on undead or constructs. Does dazing assault daze objects on a failed fortitude save? Is it harmless? No? Then it doesn't apply to undead or constructs (even if you implant them with living hearts and this is including inevitables and robots with the one exception of androids).
These are the only things affected by daze but not by stun:
Elementals, Oozes, Plants. I'm not so excited by those that I'd give up on Touch AC -2 plus weapon drop.
Just because something else may be broken doesn't mean this feat isn't...
Crane wing nerf ho!
Well someone asked for a thread necro a year down the road...
Hey, I still have until May 26th! A lot can still happen between now and then. :p
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Perhaps one reason Stunning Assault is placed higher than Dazing Assault is the fact that a stunned opponent can be taken advantage of. They essentially do the same thing by negating your opponent's next turn (which we're all in favor of), but being dazed does just that. Having your opponent stunned, however, will let other folks come in and high-five you for setting them up for a good attack. (I'm looking at you, Rogues and Medusa's Wrath)
Just an fyi, dazing an opponent makes them vulnerable to Medusa's Wrath.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/medusa-s-wrath-combat---final
Whenever you use the full-attack action and make at least one unarmed strike, you can make two additional unarmed strikes at your highest base attack bonus. These bonus attacks must be made against a dazed, flat-footed, paralyzed, staggered, stunned, or unconscious foe
So Dazing Assault is a great choice for a Monk that can spare the attack bonus, like a Sohei using a Blade of the Sword-Saint.
Things that are broken:
Dazing Spell
old Crane Wing
Persistent Spell
Dazing Assault
Stunning Assault
So for a minimum qualifying user that means a DC 26 Fort save every time an opponent gets hit.Then look at the effects of being stunned. No actions for 1 round and drop everything in your hands. So even if you save next round you're weaponless and have to rearm.
Ok, but do you know what a level 16 warrior is expected to face?
Here's an example of CR16 foes:
Ancient Black Dragon: Fort +20, AC 38
can fly, teleport, blind, blur, turn invisible, black tentacles, create walls of force, darkness
Perception +34, stealth +23
As you can see, if the black dragon doesn't want to be hit by a dude in melee, it has many many many ways to avoid being struck by a melee guy who may not even have pounce.
Planetar Angel: Fort +19, AC 32
Can fly, power word STUN (no save against foes under 151hp), turn invisible, plane shift, create barriers of blades and wind, etc.
As you can see, if the Planetar doesn't want to be hit by a dude in melee, it has many ways to avoid them.
Horned Devil: Fort +18, AC 35
Can fly, teleport at will, create persistant illusions, and has a spiked chain that STUNS WITH EVERY HIT
Stun (Su) Whenever a horned devil hits with a spiked chain attack, the opponent must succeed on a DC 27 Fortitude save or be stunned for 1d4 rounds. This ability is a function of the horned devil, not of the spiked chain. The save DC is Strength-based.
As you can see the horned devil has a completely superior version of "stun with a melee attack"
When a PC is level 16, they are basically a CR16 threat. As you can see "take a PENALTY to hit for a chance to stun at DC26" is actually weaker than what some CR16 monsters can do at-will, all time every day.
So what is the nerf on crane wing? I've seen the feat in ultimate combat, the copy I have is 2 years old and currently an hour away at my home on a shelf. Any scholarly folks here that wouldn't mind drawing up the comparison of pre nerf vs. now?
Not to nit pick but I'm pretty sure a level 16 character is actually a cr 15...just sayin'.
Things that are broken:
Dazing Spell
old Crane Wing
Persistent Spell
Dazing Assault
Stunning Assault
Old Crane Wing and Dazing/Stunning Assault are not broken, and nowhere close to the same league as Dazing and Persistent Spell.
Where is Conjuration (Teleportation) Wizard and Spell Perfection on your broken list?
When a PC is level 16, they are basically a CR16 threat. As you can see "take a PENALTY to hit for a chance to stun at DC26" is actually weaker than what some CR16 monsters can do at-will, all time every day.
Not to nit pick but I'm pretty sure a level 16 character is actually a cr 15...just sayin'.
While classed NPCs have a base CR equal to level-1, a level 16 PC wealth character increases by one to CR 16 (exactly where he should be for the CR system's internal math to work out).
A classed NPC encountered with no gear should have his CR reduced by 1 (provided that loss of gear actually hampers the NPC), while a classed NPC that instead has gear equivalent to that of a PC (as listed on Table: Character Wealth by Level) has a CR of 1 higher than his actual CR.