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MM well as long as they keep the Red Wedding out of it...
I still think that Dragonlance would be terrible. Even as a trilogy it would have to cut out HUGE important sections and just be disappointing. The cartoon they made was a perfect example. Excellent cast. Good animation... and ended up... meh. Disappointing is too kind.
MAYBE Dragonlance could work as a TV series... and wrap it up in 3-4 seasons... but lets be honest. Even the BOOKS cut out major important parts. Like when the party split up and suddenly Laurana had brokered a deal with the dwarves and retrieved the magic hammer. I kept flipping around thinking I'd missed a chapter, but NOPE... just wasn't there.
That would SUCK in a movie.
Now... maybe something like Legend of Huma? I seem to remember that was a standalone novel and would be fun worldbuilding... but the war of the lance?? Easy pass.
Regardless D&D is a somewhat toxic brand so betting everything on cliffhangers and a guaranteed trilogy is foolhardy. There's no guarantee that'll ever happen.
What I want is a band of adventurers running a unique story that is NOT based off a novel that I can point out every cut line in. I want it based in a world I recognize with landmarks, npcs and monsters that I've experienced in my games. I think that's the best way to go.
This is more or less my take on DragonLance.
I feel like for it to work as a story as-presented, you'd want it to begin running all sorts of setting elements involving gods and other elements right from the off (which could be extremely off-putting for a film) or just take such a light-handed and party-centric view that you end up with massive swathes of lore or elements simply lopped off (possibly leading to things feeling like a deus ex machina; ) and that can go bad places really quickly.
It is, on the other hand, very possible to rewrite elements to either include a broad-view or focus very precisely on a small view, but it requires a metric ton of reworking of things and I don't think most of the major properties will appreciate the changes - or maybe they will, but it will be in the way that Tolkien book lovers appreciated the LotR trilogy, or SoIaF fans appreciated (then hated) GoT - "yeah, they changed it, but it's also a good version." which negates a large amount of the reason for adapting the original in the first place.
Also, I'd personally prefer the kind of party Set was suggesting to a typical DL party.
EDIT: ... why "Seth?" Eh. I can't blame autocorrect for this one. XD
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...I'm still hoping for a D&D movie about a *party* of adventurers, working together, not one 'hero' and his plucky sidekicks. Even more equal balance between the 'core four' than an Expendables or Magnificent Seven, in which anyone who isn't Stallone or Statham/Pratt or Denzel is kind of forced into the background and gets maybe one cool establishing moment when introduced, and one later during the big fighty mcfight.
Plus a cleric of some sort. There's usually a rogue, warrior and / or wizard in these types of fantasy stories, but almost never a healer / priest, perhaps because of some hesitation over presenting some fake god or religion and inviting that tempest in a teapot controversy. More focus on the support role that keeps the action hero at the front of the party alive to keep fighting would be nice.
Traditional D&D monsters like mind flayers, owlbears, rust monsters or displacer beasts seem like a must. Go with that IP that nobody else uses. I like me some cryptids and critters from mythology like manticores and medusa, goblins and orcs and trolls (which I can see in a Tolkien movie or a Clash of the Titans remake), but, at the same time, for a D&D movie, I hope to see some uniquely D&D monsters. (Not a fan of beholders, but they are a perfect example.) Hopefully few of the oddballs like tojanida, though... Yikes. :)
While on the subject of Tolkien, we've had some great movies this generation with dwarves, elves and halflings/hobbits, so it might break some new ground and serve to differentiate a D&D movie by using some more D&D-ish fantasy races, like the tiefling, in the main group's makeup. I'd be fine with dwarves, elves and halflings in the background, or, a very-much-not-Tolkien-y one (such as one of the shorter-than-human more fey Greyhawk elves), but prefer that the 'core four' be mostly humans, with a single oddball like a tiefling. (A tiefling in the rogue role would be obvious, but putting one in the cleric or wizard or even fighter role could be more
(I wanted the same from the Dr. Strange movie, and was disappointed. No Crimson Bands of Cytorrak or Winds of Watoomb, lots of glowy shields and light-whip nonsense.)
To be fair, he DID use the Crimson Bands of Cytorrak on Thanos in Infinity War (He just didn't verbalize what they were, but director commentary called them that)
For more traditional races being non-Tolkienesque, a cynical, tricky halfling street rat would be a far cry from the innocent, agrarian hobbits. Or the group's "muscle" being a goodly half-orc. In established D&D settings (other than Dark Sun), elves and dwarves are fairly Tolkienesque in general, but with exceptions (Pikel Bouldershoulder, for example).
I think if they kept the party small and iconic (warrior-type, caster-type, priest-type, rogue-type party of four), they might be able to pull of a true ensemble cast, while also introducing the setting, plots, and villains, without it being too bogged down in exposition or too rushed. It'll still be a balancing act.
A Halfling in Sharn trying to balance having a healing mark family and mafioso ties to tribal barbarians would work well with "Not your Tolkien hobbits" if you wanted to go with that. He doesn't even have to have a mark - or if he does, it's not that big a deal since others in the setting have it, too.
Similarly, elves of that setting tend to be either jungle dwelling devotees of undeath deathlessness and the Undying Court of their ancestors, restless equestrian warriors wielding double-sided scimitars devoted to echoing their ancestral deeds, or extremely urbane entertainers/assassins ( but with specialized marks), further disassociating them from Tolkien.
While dwarves are somewhat more Tolkienesque with the use of mining, ancient kings, and banking stuff, they're also just as adapt at being, say, an artificer (in fact the iconic Eberron artificer is a dwarf). A dwarf crafting and flinging about magical devices is certainly something that would feel alien to Tolkien, yet can fit the style of dwarf-i-ness in its own way. Having a magical mark may or may not be another interesting trait.
Of course half-orcs and gnomes each have their own things going on, too.
And humans.
Then you've got the changelings, kalashtar, shifters, and warforged.
And flying ships and other elemental vehicles...
Basically, if you want a high-fantasy but not-Dune/MadMax that keeps out of Tolkientown, Eberron is a solid choice for a setting.
... but I don't think that would be a great initial movie, honestly. I think it could be, absolutely, but I don't think it would be. The simple fact is that Eberron is on the far side of what you can really get away with: audiences will have certain expectations and Eberron would stray too far from those.
But things like Dragon Lance would either not stray far enough, or stray so far as to actively offend people who might otherwise like it. "Don't go with too much good - they'll nuke your city!" is not really something you want to lean into as a setting element on your first go-round. Nor, I think, do you want to make divinity and divine intervention all that big a deal. Sure, that sounds weird, but for a D&D feel you want people walking around using divine powers in a party of adventurers, but you also don't want to make it a whole thing out of it - instigating religious wars by suddenly proving you have a god on your side after many years of silence is probably not going to track well with most modern audiences.
That's one reason I don't think DL would make for a good film - at least not out of the gate.
I had more stuff, but it's already super late and I'm ready to go to bed and that requires the whole thing or none of it, so I'll just chop it and save it for a later post, maybe.
In any event, I'm hoping the D&D film is good! XD
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Building off of what others have noted, I feel like D&D should probably be both a brand of films as well as (at first) a series of them. Well, okay, cart before the horse, but what I mean is this:
(1) First film should be a solid film on its own merits; it really should be ensemble, and it needs D&D-centric magical flare and conceits to function as a brand. It needs this to work at all, much less as D&D.
(2) This first film, if successful, then builds towards a series that iterates and increases scope and such (increasing with the "level" of the characters).
(3) Within that series, as escalation increases, you can have characters that are introduced (even as part of the core or principle cast) leave or head off and wander into their own aspects of existence and franchises.
So, yes, basically, "Do what Marvel did, but with D&Disms."
Despite the fact that Man of Steel was broadly panned, I think it was a solid enough film for what it was trying to be - it just felt extremely "off-brand" for Superman (and, personally, Pa Kent did a dumb as a character in more than one way in that film, albeit Costner turned in solid acting).
Looking at Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, and Man of Steel could be really instructive, though you can't simply make those movies but with D&D classes - for several reasons, not the least of which is relative power level.
Similarly, Fellowship of the Ring, X-Men (especially the soft reboot series), Much Ado About Nothing, The Untouchables, Clue, and Ghost Buster each have possible insights for an ensemble film.
The main difficulty, I feel, will be striking a balance with the scope of a first film and progressing from there.
Taking a look at the Potter films for the slow ramping of both magical forces and stakes would likely work better than looking at most super-hero or even fantasy films, though obviously that's a vague hand-waivey sort of way, instead of specifics.
Ultimately, though, I think that'll be the biggest challenge - creating a believable and engaging without feeling forced is a difficult balance to walk when you have built-in power creep as part of the experience. Marvel mostly accomplished this, but it's a fine line to walk, and muuuuuuch easier to say than to do.
I'm honestly not even sure if we should start with an origin story or whatever, or simply have the lot of them (much like in Marc's beloved DragonLance!) already be something of an associated group.
I mostly just want a good, solid film.
Things like Dark Sun and Dragon Lance and Eberron (and, yes, even Sigil and the Great Wheel) could be good, but I think you kind of have to prime the audience - almost create the audience - to generate an interest in and demand for some of the heavier mythic storylines of DL or the kind of eldritch manapunk of Eberron.
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I still maintain that DragonLance, done well, would be an AMAZING movie trilogy or streaming series.
Part of me will be terribly disappointed if DragonLance isn’t what they end up doing, though as long as it’s done well, I’ll be satisfied with whatever direction they go with ...
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How about Guillermo del Toro doing a Ravenloft movie?
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Basically we're in agreement
Potter had English quirk to bail it out of some of the really dumb plot elements - Aragog or Gilderoy Lockhart (e.g.) - for a D&D film I think you want typical for the genre verisimilitude.
Yeah, this is one of the reasons that I suggested looking at it as a scale rather than specifics! Vague and hand-waivey!
asdfadf
I would start the film in a more vanilla setting and introduce other possibilities (like the warforged idea) and see what kind of buzz they get. Pandering to the uber fans won't make bank, except when it does, hence starting in the middle ground and testing the waters of Dark Sun, or Eberron, or ??? to see what you can make bank off of.
This is basically what I was saying, yeah.
Marvel was rather excellent and surprising because it created the audience for its own films. They laid the ground work for films with higher stakes and more craziness.
That's kind of what the D&D films need to do, really.
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Just kind of going with this:
- Birthright : divine powers make for a conceit few film audiences would attach to unless primed
- Blackmore : the blend of really obscure conceits is a difficult sell, though more likely than some
- Council of Wyrms : dragon heroes are a bit too high concept
- Dark Sun : a little too Mad Max for fantasy audiences at present
- Dragon Fist : I actually didn't know about this one
- Dragonlance : heavy-handed mythical divine guidance likely would turn off many audiences
- Eberron : extremely crazy mana-tech and I love it but a little on the far end
- Exandria : actually it might work pretty well (though tying it with Critical Role might be a hassle)
- Forgotten Realms : probably a very solid setting for various adventuring; though gods are present, the way they are present tends to be minor enough that it wouldn't sink the film
- - Al-Qadim might work, but the Horde, Kara-Tur, Malatra, and Maztica are all a bit on the niche side, and likely wouldn't make ideal outings for first films, but could help lay the basics of groundwork for what one can expect on non-planar adventures within D&D setting in future supplements
- Ghost Walk : relatively obscure and over-emphatic on ghosts and the dead
- Greyhawk : fairly niche, but pretty decent over all, so long as they keep away from Zagyg and endless dungeons
- Jakandor : again a bit to niche for most film folks to accept
- Kingdoms of Kalamar : might once have been pretty decent, but it's definitely out of the question, now
- Lankhmar : again, might have once have been good, but that ship has sailed
- Magic: the Gathering planes : nope
- - Ravnica, Theros
- Mahasarpa : actually could be really solid... for non-US films! Which might not be a bad initial policy, actually
- Mystara : it's pretty high-concept and its sub-settings are rather specific, but it could actually work ooooookay
- - Hollow World, Savage Coast (could work, but likely problematic), Thunder Rift
- Nentir Vale : this could actually be pretty solid as a setting
- Pelinor : this is again part of the settings that can't really be done easily
- Planescape : this is just outright insane; awesome, yes, but difficult to sell in films for now
- Ravenloft : this could be a great film, but the problem is it pushes D&D into an extremely specific genre niche, which it would be incredibly difficult to break out of
- - Masque of the Red Death : again, extremely niche
- Rokugan : super-definitely not! It'd be great, but it's so specific to L5R that it won't function as part of any series other than L5R
- Spelljammer : one of my favorite settings that is exactly as far-out as Planescape
- Warcraft : that ship has long sailed
- Wilderlands of High Fantasy : I didn't really know anything about this setting, but from its small blurb, it seems decently possible as a setting (though this may not be available)
Of those, that suggests Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Mystara, Nentir Vale, and maybe Wilderlands of High Fantasy
FR, GH and NV are the most likely to actually succeed for various reasons.
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I still maintain that DragonLance, done well, would be an AMAZING movie trilogy or streaming series.
Part of me will be terribly disappointed if DragonLance isn’t what they end up doing, though as long as it’s done well, I’ll be satisfied with whatever direction they go with ...
I'd prepare for disappointment because its going to be Forgettable Realms.
How about Guillermo del Toro doing a Ravenloft movie?
This is the type of thing that would come after a successful launch of the D&D brand.
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What we know so far is the film is being written by the Horrible Bosses, Game Night, some Spiderman movie(part of a large team here) guys. Also, Chris Pine is going to be in it. Rumors say they want a Guardians of the Galaxy feel to it. So likely a rag tag group of misfits coming together to save the world type of film.
I imagine its going to be a fine line they have to tread. On one hand, if its good it will have mass appeal. On the other hand, if its too goofy it might not catch on becoming another "alleged comedy".
I know folks are salivating at the concept of multi-verse films set in the many campaign settings D&D has to offer, but first they have to make a good flick that can even justify a sequel.
I imagine its going to be a fine line they have to tread. On one hand, if its good it will have mass appeal. On the other hand, if its too goofy it might not catch on becoming another "alleged comedy".
I know folks are salivating at the concept of multi-verse films set in the many campaign settings D&D has to offer, but first they have to make a good flick that can even justify a sequel.
I think this is what we're all thinking, yeah.
Anything else has to come after a solid stand-alone first film.
One of the problems studios have always had with the whole series sort of thing is said studios kind of want to rush to the end without the groundwork that has to be established to get there. And, I mean, I get that - in it's own way, it's like far too many D&D campaigns. But while you have to know where you're going, you also have to be flexible and make each individual product solid on its own merits.
One good thing about the Homecoming film is that while the events felt world-shaking, they honestly weren't: they were fairly city-shaking, but that's about the limit of the scope of damage, and, frankly, that's pretty great for a first outing. "The <city/town/valley> is in peril" rather than "the whole world is at stake" (though it could certainly seem like the whole world is at stake). That, at least, hopefully gives them a sense of scale to start with. Having never seen Horrible Bosses or Game Night, I can't comment on those.
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O Having never seen Horrible Bosses or Game Night, I can't comment on those.
Not great movies by any stretch, but they were good ensemble flicks. So I think they have the party sense of the film down. Though, thats 1 of a dozen or more things that they need to consider launching a D&D film.
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People are forgetting the writing team also wrote SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING, which I think is probably more the tone they're going to be aiming for. If they've done their homework, they'll know one of the (several*) reasons the 2000 movie was a failure was because they couldn't settle on a tone and went from a comedy to a serious tone every few minutes and will probably settle on something a bit more serious.
My main concern about the project is they treat it like HORRIBLE BOSSES or GAME NIGHT and go for that tone with a cast of comedians rather than serious actors (having said that, Rachel McAdams was one of the leads in GAME NIGHT and is great at both). I'm hoping they're smart enough not to do that.
Also worth noting that all previous stuff from the story about it being set in Waterdeep in the FORGOTTEN REALMS was before the script was completely rewritten last year. At this juncture, it is wholly unknown if it is still set in the Realms.
(* Alongside not having enough money, only affording Jeremy Irons for a few days so they had to give all the actual on-foot villainy stuff to a much cheaper (and weaker) dude, not doing enough R&D on the beholder CGI and dropping them even though they'd already appeared in several scenes, the writer-director not being experienced at either writing or directing, and half the cast clearly not knowing what the hell was going on at any given moment.)
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I have to imagine that if it's a D&D-brand movie, they'll want to set it in a major setting that they're *currently* publishing.
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Alternatively, they could say who cares about setting? What we really need to figure out is how to G.I. Joe and Transformers into the same movie.
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- Blackmore : the blend of really obscure conceits is a difficult sell, though more likely than some- Dragon Fist : I actually didn't know about this one
- Exandria : actually it might work pretty well (though tying it with Critical Role might be a hassle)
- Kingdoms of Kalamar : might once have been pretty decent, but it's definitely out of the question, now
- Lankhmar : again, might have once have been good, but that ship has sailed
- Rokugan : super-definitely not! It'd be great, but it's so specific to L5R that it won't function as part of any series other than L5R
- Warcraft : that ship has long sailed
- Wilderlands of High Fantasy : I didn't really know anything about this setting, but from its small blurb, it seems decently possible as a setting (though this may not be available)
The IP rights to those belong to other entities, I think; WOTC couldn't even touch 'em at all without licensing troubles. ;)
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Just kind of going with this:
- Lankhmar : again, might have once have been good, but that ship has sailed
Don't think Lankhmar has sailed at all. I'd pay good money to see Lankhmar done well, but not as a D&D setting. It would also work a lot better as a TV series I think, but could be awesome!
Also, in your list of settings which D&D had adaptations for, you missed Conan, but that's also in the group which they only licensed and couldn't do themselves.
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Don't think Lankhmar has sailed at all. I'd pay good money to see Lankhmar done well, but not as a D&D setting.
You're actually verbalizing my reasoning about why the ship has sailed, in particular.
We're discussing the D&D film, not the Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser film. XD
EDIT:
Also, in your list of settings which D&D had adaptations for, you missed Conan, but that's also in the group which they only licensed and couldn't do themselves.
I most certainly did not! That setting isn't in the list I linked! XD
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The IP rights to those belong to other entities, I think; WOTC couldn't even touch 'em at all without licensing troubles. ;)
- Blackmore : the blend of really obscure conceits is a difficult sell, though more likely than some- Dragon Fist : I actually didn't know about this one
- Exandria : actually it might work pretty well (though tying it with Critical Role might be a hassle)
- Kingdoms of Kalamar : might once have been pretty decent, but it's definitely out of the question, now
- Lankhmar : again, might have once have been good, but that ship has sailed
- Rokugan : super-definitely not! It'd be great, but it's so specific to L5R that it won't function as part of any series other than L5R
- Warcraft : that ship has long sailed
- Wilderlands of High Fantasy : I didn't really know anything about this setting, but from its small blurb, it seems decently possible as a setting (though this may not be available)
Exactly! That's why I listed these mostly as "nope" - the IP rights are either entirely out of WotC's hands or have so far gone that it really seems exceptionally unlikely that anyone'd ever pay the money to make those into a D&D film in particular.
The only one I really wasn't certain of was the Wilderlands of High Fantasy as I'd never head of it as a setting, and honestly don't know who holds the rights to any of it as a film. The others, though, it was clear were right out.
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Also, just to reiterate my conclusion (modified only by the idea that WoHF isn't available):
Of those, that suggests Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Mystara, Nentir Vale,and maybe Wilderlands of High FantasyFR, GH and NV are the most likely to actually succeed for various reasons.
If you want to start low and then get into epic high level nonsense with lots of cameos from relatively famous folks and book references, probably Forgotten Realms.
If you want extremely quirky highly D&D-esque nonsense/glory with lots of cameos from famous folks that are less famous than FR, probably Greyhawk.
If you want a generic but exceptionally solid fantasy setting that's relatively streamlined and could actually be the basis for a fantasy anime as well, probably Nentir Vale/Points of Light.
And, in many ways, as others have said, to some extent the setting is immaterial. But, functionally, if you're trying to strike a particular tone, and trying to tie it to Dungeons & Dragons in particular, thinking about the setting and establishing the film within it is actually something of an ideal way to handle that sort of thing: each setting has its own feel and elements that can be adapted or used for film in different ways.
Similarly, while I agree with almost everything else about Set's post,
It doesn't even have to be strictly D&D stuff. If the wizard locks someone's gaze and paralyzes them both (locking them into a staring contest) with a 'serpent's stare' spell, then they are at least doing something more controller-y and less blast-y.
... this is a fine line to walk. I absolutely agree with the non-blasty magic, but I really do feel that, even though you absolutely shouldn't be using the rules to run the film, you absolutely should make a film that the rules could replicate (more-or-less) with little to no effort or tweaking.
The reason for this is specifically to help generate a larger interest in the game and not foster a hard backlash.
I can imagine if people are inspired by the film, go to sit at a table and are told, "No, you can't do that, it's stupid and bad." it'll leave a pretty bitter taste in the mouth of those who were previously inspired. I would hope not, but it really could lead to a turn away from the hobby by incident.
(Though I have no doubt that D&D will publish some sort of tie-in product, possibly even outlining, "How could I do this?" as either player or GM; if they don't, I... well, I'd be surprised, to put it mildly.)
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The only one I really wasn't certain of was the Wilderlands of High Fantasy as I'd never head of it as a setting, and honestly don't know who holds the rights to any of it as a film. The others, though, it was clear were right out.
I think that Judges Guild holds all the rights to that; from what all info about the Wilderlands of High Fantasy says, they started out as part of the world that featured their past adventures/sourcebooks- not unlike how Mystara/The Known World started out as.
And speaking of Mystara...
Somewhere on reddit there was a hope for Red Steel. First I'd heard of that. #### ####### there were a #### ######## of options published for 2e.
The Savage Coast-Red Steel/Wrath of the Immortals/Mystara/Hollow Earth/Voyage of the Princess-Ark parts might make for some weird fantastical visual-effects but they might also be too niche for a stand-alone movie. :)
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The only one I really wasn't certain of was the Wilderlands of High Fantasy as I'd never head of it as a setting, and honestly don't know who holds the rights to any of it as a film. The others, though, it was clear were right out.I think that Judges Guild holds all the rights to that; from what all info about the Wilderlands of High Fantasy says, they started out as part of the world that featured their past adventures/sourcebooks- not unlike how Mystara/The Known World started out as.
And speaking of Mystara...
Somewhere on reddit there was a hope for Red Steel. First I'd heard of that. #### ####### there were a #### ######## of options published for 2e.The Savage Coast-Red Steel/Wrath of the Immortals/Mystara/Hollow Earth/Voyage of the Princess-Ark parts might make for some weird fantastical visual-effects but they might also be too niche for a stand-alone movie. :)
Thanks!
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Which is fine, but I'd like to know some basic things about the movie before I judge the casting.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Word is they have a script they are working with, but they are keeping those cards close to the chest.
I certainly hope they have a script they're working with if they're casting. Generally they have actors read pages from the script for their auditions! :)
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They start shooting in the next few weeks, they're using the Titanic Studios in Belfast, Northern Ireland and they already have a release date, 27 May next year.
The writer-directors are John Francis Daley and Jonathan Goldstein (who wrote SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING and both wrote and directed GAME NIGHT).
Apparently they threw out a lot of the earlier work that was being done, which we know was set in Waterdeep and used the Yawning Portal so presumably involved Undermountain, and we have no idea on where the new script is set. It might still have those elements, it might be completely new, it might be set in a recognisable world like the Forgotten Realms or it might be set in the directors' homebrew campaign they have mistakenly believed the entire world desperately wants to see (again).
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Same.
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It's not pessimism to want to see what the script is so I can make a judgment on whether or not I want to see this movie.
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How often do you see a script before seeing movies?
Just like the books, I only liked Fellowship. Who can sit thru that s#%t?
I felt that way about Game of Thrones....then I reread it.
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Nice try, but im done with Bored of the Rings.
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One thing will get me to see this day one:
Vin Diesel as Minsc. Make it happen.
Who are you kiddin? You'd see it day one if they brought Marlon Wayans back as the thief.
Just like the books, I only liked Fellowship. Who can sit thru that s#%t?
I found The Two Towers to be better, otherwise I agree with you.
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I'm not sure you can ever replace/replicate the great Jim Cummings...
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Who are you kiddin? You'd see it day one if they brought Marlon Wayans back as the thief.One thing will get me to see this day one:
Vin Diesel as Minsc. Make it happen.
LOL Marlon Wayans dud an excellent job. If someone new to the game wanted to play a rogue, I'd show him that movie and say " Do the opposite of Him."
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Exactly. I'd tell people playing rogues, Watch D&D movie, see Marlon Wayans and do the opposite of that for rogues.
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I thought this short video about the D&D movie was amusing.