Smallest group of 20's to fell the Tarrasque?


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I was messing around in Hero Lab and built a decent Weapon Master Fighter archetype and got to wondering, If this guy can dish out more than 40 points of damage regularly, what back up would he need to beat the tarrasque? And then I thought what would the smallest team be that could tank the tarrasque? I know it isn't quite like Final Fantasy VII (as in not everyone can caste Haste, Wall>All and Final Attack>Revive combos) But I think there is a possibility for a 2 or 3 man team to do it.

So I propose a challenge. Create a level 20 character, 25 point buy, with 20th WBL gold (880,000gp)and post the results here. Or create your team and post them as well. I actually have a group of friends willing to run this with me so if you have a strategy as far as the characters general tactics and prepared spells etc, it would be helpful. Please cite any feats, traits, etc that are from chronicle books or other splats. Prefer not to use a terrible amount of 3rd party material, as I'm sure this Fighter could benefit from Vampiric strike feat (Who wouldn't benefit from healing 1/5th of the damage they deal?)


Dot


Tommy Vaceck wrote:

I was messing around in Hero Lab and built a decent Weapon Master Fighter archetype and got to wondering, If this guy can dish out more than 40 points of damage regularly, what back up would he need to beat the tarrasque? And then I thought what would the smallest team be that could tank the tarrasque? I know it isn't quite like Final Fantasy VII (as in not everyone can caste Haste, Wall>All and Final Attack>Revive combos) But I think there is a possibility for a 2 or 3 man team to do it.

So I propose a challenge. Create a level 20 character, 25 point buy, with 20th WBL gold (880,000gp)and post the results here. Or create your team and post them as well. I actually have a group of friends willing to run this with me so if you have a strategy as far as the characters general tactics and prepared spells etc, it would be helpful. Please cite any feats, traits, etc that are from chronicle books or other splats. Prefer not to use a terrible amount of 3rd party material, as I'm sure this Fighter could benefit from Vampiric strike feat (Who wouldn't benefit from healing 1/5th of the damage they deal?)

My bet is that a single cleric armed with Create Greater Undead could do it.

A wraith is incorporeal and makes touch attacks that do 1d6 Con drain. The tarrasque is immune to ability damage, but not to drain. Its touch AC of 5 is trivial to hit. On average 10 hits will reduce its Con to 0, at which point it dies.


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Speaking as the Tarrasque, I am looking forward to this test. I'm famished. Actually, I hope you dig deep into the Ultimate Race Guide and bring lots of large races; don't bother with halflings or gnomes or other pipsqueaks, it takes way too many of those to fill me up.

Hey, will any of your snacks, er, I mean heroes, take the time to marinade themselves before the fight? I would really appreciate it.

Thanks a bunch!


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Make a wizard/summoner who's all about summoning monsters, and teleporting them around.

And then, do nothing but teleport gelatinous cubes into the mouth and stomach of the beast. Just keep doing it, don't ever stop.


One 18th level Witch could do it, with Forced Reincarnation. The tarrasque's +12 Will save is quite easy to defeat.


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If you need only reduce the Tarrasque to 0 hp, then I contend that many optimized single characters could do it with the right set of items for such a task.

Having an AC of 56 at level 20 isn't unreasonable, such that the terrasque could only hit on 20. A ring of freedom of movement to prevent grappling and swallow hole. Probably want some form of backup healing, so some UMD and wands or scrolls. Then you just need a big weapon to get around his DR, and hopefully inflict at least 80 damage per round so he's only regenerating half the damage you cause. I've seen optimized two-handed weapon users with +40 (or more) static damage per attack at level 20. At that point its pretty lopsided in favor of the player and not the terrasque. The terrasque isn't a powerful combatant, he just can't be "killed".

The terrasque is critical thinking problem, nothing more.


With its pathetic touch AC, a single decently prepared gunslinger could put a Tarrasque down in one round. With a double-barreled gun, four iteratives, haste, and rapid shot the gunslinger will have twelve attacks. That means she needs to average 45 damage per attack to fell the creature.

Assuming pistolero:
4.5 average base pistol damage + 8 dex damage + 3 pistol training + 5 weapon enhancement + 12 deadly aim + 17.5 average Up Close and Deadly = 50 damage per attack

Only trouble is getting within range, but if you're considering a fighter going toe-to-toe, I guess we're not worried about that.


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Orfamay Quest wrote:

My bet is that a single cleric armed with Create Greater Undead could do it.

A wraith is incorporeal and makes touch attacks that do 1d6 Con drain. The tarrasque is immune to ability damage, but not to drain. Its touch AC of 5 is trivial to hit. On average 10 hits will reduce its Con to 0, at which point it dies.

Nope. James Jacobs clarified that I'm immune to that though the historians who have written about me seem to have forgotten to include that.

Thanks for the yummy cleric, keep 'em coming!


Quote:
On average 10 hits will reduce its Con to 0, at which point it dies.

No, it don't.

PRD paizo wrote:
Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.

Liberty's Edge

Claxon wrote:

If you need only reduce the Tarrasque to 0 hp, then I contend that many optimized single characters could do it with the right set of items for such a task.

Having an AC of 56 at level 20 isn't unreasonable, such that the terrasque could only hit on 20. A ring of freedom of movement to prevent grappling and swallow hole. Probably want some form of backup healing, so some UMD and wands or scrolls. Then you just need a big weapon to get around his DR, and hopefully inflict at least 80 damage per round so he's only regenerating half the damage you cause. I've seen optimized two-handed weapon users with +40 (or more) static damage per attack at level 20. At that point its pretty lopsided in favor of the player and not the terrasque. The terrasque isn't a powerful combatant, he just can't be "killed".

The terrasque is critical thinking problem, nothing more.

+40 static damage in a 2-hander is pretty easy, actually. Any full martial can have a 30+ Str, even if they start under 18. Power attack ramps up to -6/+18 for a 2-hander...that's +33 or more with Str and one feat. If you don't have a +3 or +4 weapon by then...why not?

That's not even optimized. :)


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Vamptastic wrote:

Make a wizard/summoner who's all about summoning monsters, and teleporting them around.

And then, do nothing but teleport gelatinous cubes into the mouth and stomach of the beast. Just keep doing it, don't ever stop.

Mmmm, Jello! I like Jello!

But, sooner or later, I'm gonna eat that summoner too. Gotta get some protein in with the Jello...


@Tvarog That's an interesting proposal, but you can't let the GM roll that 100 on the %. I fear a GM choice might result in the Tarrasque just coming back.


The Tarrasque really does not live up to it's hype. It is very possible for single level 13 charaters to defeat it if they go about it smart (I think there was a guide to that somewhere). After it's brought down to 0 all you have to do is keep carving it up and start selling Tarrasque burgers. I think someone made a home brew world where a cities' entire economy was based on the Tarrasque selling it's meat, scale claws and blood.


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Tvarog wrote:
One 18th level Witch could do it, with Forced Reincarnation. The tarrasque's +12 Will save is quite easy to defeat.

Hmmm, nice try.

You might slay me temporarily with that, but it's not like reincarnation removes my body, so 3 rounds later my slain body will just regenerate back to health and then I'll eat that witch - she can't do it twice, but I can regenerate all day long.

Not sure how my soul gets back from its new body when my old one comes back alive, but I'm sure the universe will work that out for me.

Thanks for the tasty witch!


EldonG wrote:

+40 static damage in a 2-hander is pretty easy, actually. Any full martial can have a 30+ Str, even if they start under 18. Power attack ramps up to -6/+18 for a 2-hander...that's +33 or more with Str and one feat. If you don't have a +3 or +4 weapon by then...why not?

That's not even optimized. :)

I agree whole heartedly. A barbarian build with raging brutality could be churning out +60 in static damage per attack, plus Come and Get Me when the Tarrasque attacks (assuming within range). Who cares if he blows through all his rounds of rage taking down the Tarrasque.


Avh wrote:
Quote:
On average 10 hits will reduce its Con to 0, at which point it dies.

No, it don't.

PRD paizo wrote:
Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.

Yes, it do. <evil smiley>

PRD Paizo wrote:

Regeneration (Ex) A creature with this ability is difficult to kill. Creatures with regeneration heal damage at a fixed rate, as with fast healing, but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning (although creatures with regeneration still fall unconscious when their hit points are below 0). Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature's regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature's descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning.

Attack forms that don't deal hit point damage are not healed by regeneration. Regeneration also does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation. Regenerating creatures can regrow lost portions of their bodies and can reattach severed limbs or body parts if they are brought together within 1 hour of severing. Severed parts that are not reattached wither and die normally.

and

PRD Paizo wrote:

Ability Score Damage, Penalty, and Drain

If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die.

It can regenerate as much as it likes, but the regeneration will not fix Con drain.


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To get rid of the tarrasque, FEED IT TO ME.

"Creatures drawn within are consumed in 1 round. The bag destroys the victim's body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse. There is a 50% chance that a wish, miracle, or true resurrection spell can restore a devoured victim to life. Check once for each destroyed creature. If the check fails, the creature cannot be brought back to life by mortal magic."


Orfamay Quest wrote:
It can regenerate as much as it likes, but the regeneration will not fix Con drain.

Except you missed the part where James Jacobs clarified that the Tarrasque is also immune to ability drain as well as ability damage mentioned in the normal PRD entry.

I am interested in seeing how a GM would adjudicate a charcter allowing themselves to be swallowed hole and then putting a portable hole into a bag of holding while inside the Tarrasques stomach? Does he turn inside out and land in the Astral plane?


I would have to concur with the Tarrasque on the ability drain. Isn't the drain considered a form of "Permanent Wounds" that can be cured by the Restoration spell. And if it would qualify as "Permanent Wounds" as such the Tarrasque is stated as being immune. I don't know what exactly James Jacobs stated as the reason the Tarrasque was immune but it seems to make sense.

MacGurgles said wrote:

With its pathetic touch AC, a single decently prepared gunslinger could put a Tarrasque down in one round. With a double-barreled gun, four iteratives, haste, and rapid shot the gunslinger will have twelve attacks. That means she needs to average 45 damage per attack to fell the creature.

Assuming pistolero:
4.5 average base pistol damage + 8 dex damage + 3 pistol training + 5 weapon enhancement + 12 deadly aim + 17.5 average Up Close and Deadly = 50 damage per attack

Only trouble is getting within range, but if you're considering a fighter going toe-to-toe, I guess we're not worried about that.

I don't see how that drops the Tarrasque in one round? Then again I'm not keen on the Double-Barreled Gun's interaction with Haste and Rapid Shot.

I'm assuming that you would feat/ Class Feature to reload both barrels as a free action, and they fire both barrels at once? So 6 touch attacks (with both barrels?) would be 50 * 12 shots or 600 damage? dropping the Tarrasque to -75, putting it down for 2-3 rounds, (that is making an assumption you have overcome the DR 15/Epic)

This is why I had asked for a build post, kinda like taking a math test. (They like it when you show your work.)

Great ideas, please keep them coming guys.

Liberty's Edge

Hungry, Hungry Bag wrote:

To get rid of the tarrasque, FEED IT TO ME.

"Creatures drawn within are consumed in 1 round. The bag destroys the victim's body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse. There is a 50% chance that a wish, miracle, or true resurrection spell can restore a devoured victim to life. Check once for each destroyed creature. If the check fails, the creature cannot be brought back to life by mortal magic."

The feeding part is harder than it sounds, if it's still wigglin'.


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MacGurcules wrote:

With its pathetic touch AC, a single decently prepared gunslinger could put a Tarrasque down in one round. With a double-barreled gun, four iteratives, haste, and rapid shot the gunslinger will have twelve attacks. That means she needs to average 45 damage per attack to fell the creature.

Assuming pistolero:
4.5 average base pistol damage + 8 dex damage + 3 pistol training + 5 weapon enhancement + 12 deadly aim + 17.5 average Up Close and Deadly = 50 damage per attack

Only trouble is getting within range, but if you're considering a fighter going toe-to-toe, I guess we're not worried about that.

Pathetic, HAH!

I don't know much about gunslingers, I think guns were invented while I was sleeping. Is that accurate? 12 attacks? Are you sure double-barrel lets you fire both barrels every time you fire rather than only once? I dunno, guns are weird.

Did you take into account my massively armored hide, subtracting 15 damage from each attack? That's only 35 damage per attack. I'll survive that.

I have ranged attacks too, will your gunslinger survive mine? And don't forget if you're that close, I might just CHOMP him instead.

Even so, if he survives the first round he might take me down in round two, which gives him three rounds to run away before I get back up, madder and hungrier than before, and he probably can't outrun me. He could do his 12-shot trick over and over, keep knocking me down, but I bet I have more regeneration than he has bullets.

Are gunslingers yummy? I am about to find out...


Claxon said wrote:
I agree whole heartedly. A barbarian build with raging brutality could be churning out +60 in static damage per attack, plus Come and Get Me when the Tarrasque attacks (assuming within range). Who cares if he blows through all his rounds of rage taking down the Tarrasque.

You see this is why you make him a Half-Orc. (or a human with the Half-Orc heritage feat) It opens up Gore Fiend (prereqs = Orc or Half-Orc, Rage) which gets you back a round of rage every time that you Crit or are Crit. It won't quite make up for the Raging Brutality's extra 3 rounds. But the chances of critting with a 15-20 Falchion are what?


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Claxon wrote:
EldonG wrote:

+40 static damage in a 2-hander is pretty easy, actually. Any full martial can have a 30+ Str, even if they start under 18. Power attack ramps up to -6/+18 for a 2-hander...that's +33 or more with Str and one feat. If you don't have a +3 or +4 weapon by then...why not?

That's not even optimized. :)

I agree whole heartedly. A barbarian build with raging brutality could be churning out +60 in static damage per attack, plus Come and Get Me when the Tarrasque attacks (assuming within range). Who cares if he blows through all his rounds of rage taking down the Tarrasque.

And then I get up and eat him.

I bet I have more regeneration than he has rage.

Barbarians are yummy - lots of muscly meat on them bones.


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Someone should make an Ultra Man construct. Like, a giant celestial clockwork thing that fights the Tarrasque and other giant monsters.


Quote:
It can regenerate as much as it likes, but the regeneration will not fix Con drain.

Let me bold the important sentence :

Quote:
Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.

It does not function as usual regeneration, it is Tarasque regeneration, that allow it to regenerate even things that are not damage.


Tommy Vaceck wrote:

I don't see how that drops the Tarrasque in one round? Then again I'm not keen on the Double-Barreled Gun's interaction with Haste and Rapid Shot.

I'm assuming that you would feat/ Class Feature to reload both barrels as a free action, and they fire both barrels at once? So 6 touch attacks (with both barrels?) would be 50 * 12 shots or 600 damage? dropping the Tarrasque to -75, putting it down for 2-3 rounds, (that is making an assumption you have overcome the DR 15/Epic)

This is why I had asked for a build post, kinda like taking a math test. (They like it when you show your work.)

Great ideas, please keep them coming guys.

DM_Blake wrote:

I don't know much about gunslingers, I think guns were invented while I was sleeping. Is that accurate? 12 attacks? Are you sure double-barrel lets you fire both barrels every time you fire rather than only once? I dunno, guns are weird.

Did you take into account my massively armored hide, subtracting 15 damage from each attack? That's only 35 damage per attack. I'll survive that.

I'm assuming we're just working on bringing the monster down to 0 HP. Of course it'll eventually regenerate. The Tarrasque is a plot device. You're not supposed to be able to actually kill it.

As for showing work, Rapid Reload with alchemical cartridges allow reloading a one-handed firearm as a free action. Clustered Shots lets you group all attacks in a round against DR.

I agree, I'm not super crazy about double-barreled guns, but it seems like that's the way they're supposed to work. If you use single-barreled pistols and two-weapon fighting instead, you could do the same if you can squeeze out another ten damage per shot. I'm sure the optimization gurus around here could make that happen.


DM_Blake wrote:

And then I get up and eat him.

I bet I have more regeneration than he has rage.

Barbarians are yummy - lots of muscly meat on them bones.

You literally can't with a Ring of Freedom of Movement. You autofail on the grapple check and he never stays in your mouth.

Ultimately, since there are no official ways to kill the Tarrasque, you ultimately win no matter what because eventually you return. It could be a day, a year, a century, a millenium, a eon. But you will return.


Hungry, Hungry Bag wrote:

To get rid of the tarrasque, FEED IT TO ME.

"Creatures drawn within are consumed in 1 round. The bag destroys the victim's body and prevents any form of raising or resurrection that requires part of the corpse. There is a 50% chance that a wish, miracle, or true resurrection spell can restore a devoured victim to life. Check once for each destroyed creature. If the check fails, the creature cannot be brought back to life by mortal magic."

I do not know what you are, but your "mouth" seems too small for the task, as does your "belly" if that's what you have.

I will CHOMP you to bits and swallow those bits and no doubt, still be famished.


Claxon wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:

And then I get up and eat him.

I bet I have more regeneration than he has rage.

Barbarians are yummy - lots of muscly meat on them bones.

You literally can't with a Ring of Freedom of Movement. You autofail on the grapple check and he never stays in your mouth.

Ultimately, since there are no official ways to kill the Tarrasque, you ultimately win no matter what because eventually you return. It could be a day, a year, a century, a millenium, a eon.

One or two good CHOMPs and he's too dead to escape my armored teeth. Although, I admit, I do like my food with more fight in it, but I'll take my snack any way I can get it.

Grand Lodge

Just look at the beastmass thread, the Tarrasque is one of the encounters. Most solutions have either used starvation or suffocation (two kinds of damage that cannot be regenerated).


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Do you really want to get that thing hungry, though?


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Fluttershy the druid build

STR: 7 DEX: 12 CON: 14 INT: 12 WIS: 14 CHA: 18 (20 point buy)

Human- Toughness
1st Vermin Hearted
3rd Skill focus diplomacy
5th- Fast empathy
7th: greater empathy

Silver Tongued Human are often adept at subtle manipulation and putting even sworn foes at ease. Humans with this trait gain a +2 bonus on Diplomacy and Bluff checks. In addition, when they use Diplomacy to shift a creature's attitude, they can shift up to three steps up rather than just two. This racial trait replaces skilled. (may or may not work with wild empathy but meh, why not)

Standard Action wild empathy check:

+10 Druid Add a +1/2 bonus on Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to change a creature's attitude X 10 levels
+20 druid levels
+3 circlet of persuision
+2 greater empathy
+10 charisma
-4 for magical beast

=+41 standard action diplomacy check.

Awwww.. whosa good tarasque? Who wants belly rubs.. awww.. thats my good little engine of destruction.. how about we go see a magical place called cheliax? You can eat the big ones but put the small ones back ok?

edit: and the helm of opposite alignment is a great idea. Here, try this party hat mr tarrasque...


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Kiinyan wrote:
Just look at the beastmass thread, the Tarrasque is one of the encounters. Most solutions have either used starvation or suffocation (two kinds of damage that cannot be regenerated).

Suffocation takes quite a while, and starvation takes even longer. After it kills me, I regenerate back up in just 18 seconds and now your effects have to start all over. During that time I can move around, find air, find food. If I die again, I regenerate again and keep looking for air and food. If I die a million times, I regenerate a million times and, eventually, I'll find that air and food.

I admit, though, that I don't look forward to such a prospect; I'm already famished and it's no fun. Come to think of it, I'm always famished. Anybody got a snack?

I don't wanna spend ages regenerating from starvation. What a horrible thought. Maybe you and I should be friends... *toothy grin*


Not sure if my post went through:

Why don't we just put this sucker in space? Or better yet, put him in the sun?


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I'm a good tarrasque. Really I am!

You're gonna feed me a whole country? Sweet! That should hold me for a few weeks.

Forget that other guy (I was lying anyway) - I want you to be my friend. I mean it. Really. You got the best snacks EVER!!!!

Oh, and please disregard the fact that your Wild Empathy totally didn't work on me because I'm immune to mind-affecting tricks. You can still be my friend. I promise not to eat you as long as you keep feeding me such wonderful snacks. I promise.


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Vamptastic wrote:

Not sure if my post went through:

Why don't we just put this sucker in space? Or better yet, put him in the sun?

I like the sun. A bit bright, but it's a nice place to visit for a while. Space isn't nearly as much fun. It's cold, it's hard to breathe there, and dangit, there's nothing to EAT!

Sooner or later gravity will pull me somewhere and then I'll find a snack. And heck, since I'm a plot device, I'm fairly certain gravity will pull me somewhere interesting with lots of snacks.


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Killing Big T as a construct of forum debate isn't terribly difficult.
You usually have terrain advantage and have the greatest advantage of all.
The ability to create characters who's sole build, purpose, and WBL is to kill him.

The real challenge in killing Big T is in taking a group of characters who are actual characters (not forum constructs) who've been "organically grown" through a campaign from first level to last and then give them say.. 18 hours notice, ingame, that they'll be fighting Big T.

Therein lies the real issue. Big T is easy to kill here on the forums but is he so easy to kill with a group of characters who were just characters in a campaign with feats, spells, and magical items that they acquired (or made) for the general purpose of adventuring rather than the specific task of killing him?

I don't think so.

-S


@Bignorsewolf : Diplomacy only works against creature that are not hostile, sorry :)

@Selgard : actually, it's impossible to kill. You can make it unconscious, but not kill it.

Grand Lodge

DM_Blake wrote:
Kiinyan wrote:
Just look at the beastmass thread, the Tarrasque is one of the encounters. Most solutions have either used starvation or suffocation (two kinds of damage that cannot be regenerated).

Suffocation takes quite a while, and starvation takes even longer. After it kills me, I regenerate back up in just 18 seconds and now your effects have to start all over. During that time I can move around, find air, find food. If I die again, I regenerate again and keep looking for air and food. If I die a million times, I regenerate a million times and, eventually, I'll find that air and food.

I admit, though, that I don't look forward to such a prospect; I'm already famished and it's no fun. Come to think of it, I'm always famished. Anybody got a snack?

I don't wanna spend ages regenerating from starvation. What a horrible thought. Maybe you and I should be friends... *toothy grin*

Tarrasque Regeneration:
Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque’s regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly[/], it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.

starvation:
A character can go without food for 3 days, in growing discomfort. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each day (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage. Characters that take an amount of nonlethal damage equal to their total hit points begin to take lethal damage instead.

Characters who have taken nonlethal damage from lack of food or water are fatigued. [b]Nonlethal damage from thirst or starvation cannot be recovered until the character gets food or water, as needed—not even magic that restores hit points heals this damage.

Suffocation:
A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. If a character takes a standard or full-round action, the remaining duration that the character can hold her breath is reduced by 1 round. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check in order to continue holding her breath. The check must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success.

When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates.

I can see the argument of the Tarrasque coming back from suffocation, since it is a save, but not starvation. Starvation is not a form of attack, and it cannot be healed until food is consumed. As long as the Tarrasque is kept away from food (I believe they cut it up and moved it into a small demiplane) it will eventually die simply because starvation damage cannot be healed and even Tarrasque Regeneration only specifies attacks or instant death saves, which starvation is neither.


Avh wrote:

@Bignorsewolf : Diplomacy only works against creature that are not hostile, sorry :)

Its "generally ineffective" because it takes a minute to do. Fast empathy makes it a standard action, and there is a place on the diplomacy chart specifically for affecting hostile creatures.

I can also do an intimidate check "sit boy" which may or may not work.

The druid can also show up with a herd of cattle and an obscene "profession: BBQ cook" as needed.


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Selgard wrote:
Killing Big T as a construct of forum debate isn't terribly difficult.

Oh no you didn't!

I don't see me dying here yet. Couple cowards suggest sending me away and making me really hungry. That's all you got?

Calling me "Big T" is pretty cool, however, so I'll let this one slide...

Selgard wrote:
Big T is easy

Only with regards to Mrs. T.

Oh, and FYI, she DEFINITELY doesn't like it when you call her "Big T".

I will NEVER make that mistake again...

*shudders*


Polar Midnight would do it as well. Suffocate it (or whatever), and then drop PM in the area while the 3 rounds are going on. Body turns to solid ice, which does not regenerate. PM isn't a polymorph effect.

Shadow Lodge

Here are 5 different ways to get the Tarrasque down, and 6 different ways of keeping him down.

From this blog post: Killing the Tarraque

Getting Him Down:

1 - Pummel Away: Of course, you can just whup him good. Go toe to toe and come out swininging. Difficult, but perhaps the most rewarding. The Zen Archer One is a good example of a build that can destroy the Tarrasque through legitimate means. He can get the Tarrasque down to approximately negative 16,000 without the Tarrasque lifting a finger, then have about 40 minutes to figure out what to do while the Tarrasque heals back up.

2 - Magic Jar: Classic, timeless, the Magic Jar. It's only a sorcerer/wizard level 5 spell, but it will do the trick. You target the Tarrasque's worst save, and get to possess it! Then, you can either stay a Tarrasque, or suicide with him, moving the Tarrasque and the jar out of range of each other. This method will keep him down too.

3 - Ability Drain: While the Tarrasque is immune to ability damage, he is not immune to ability drain. There is some debate as to whether this is intentional or an oversight, but it is RAW (rules as written). One way to inflict some ability drain is to create some Wraiths or Shadows, through the Oracle's Juju mystery or some other means. Wraiths will deal him d6 con damage, though only if he rolls a one on his fortitude save. Still, the Tarrasque can't do anything about the Wraith hanging around, so it's a good long term strategy. Also, because the Tarrasque won't regain con, he will stop at 0 con and be dead.

4 - Suffocation: The Rules for Regeneration clearly state "Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation." This means that you can take him out through the spell Suffocation or Mass Suffocation. The bad news? The spell targets his +31 fort save. None the less, it is possible to get him down through these means. The Vacuum is a great example of a build that can pull it off.

5 - Divine Intervention: Divine intervention can seem like a cop out, but it is what a lot of GMs are looking for. Get on the good side with a god, and have him deal with the beast.

Keeping Him Down:

1 - Constant Damage: Constant Damage is the simplest way to keep the Tarrasque down. There are, of course, a multitude of was to do this. Dumping the Tarrasque in a volcano will do the trick, as will hiring a small army to constantly pummel him. Alternatively, you could open "Joes Tarrasque Burgers" selling 41 hit points worth of juicy burger every 6 seconds.

2 - Planar Relocation: One method of getting the Tarrasque out of your hair is to take him somewhere far, far away. Plane Shift will do the trick, for a very daring spellcaster. Best of all, the Tarrasque doesn't even need to be dead. Just run up to the baddie, cast Plane Shift (and beat his pitiful +12 Will) and he is outta there! For more fun, take him to the astral plane where he can do no damage. Or take him to a plane where time moves excessively slowly. Or maroon him out in the "Plane-Where-There-is-Nothing-Oh-I-Guess-There-Is-a-Tarrasque-Here-When-Did -That-Happen."

3 - Suffocation or Starvation: The Rules for Regeneration clearly state "Regeneration does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation." Thusly, placing the Tarrasque at the bottom of the sea, encased in rock, or in a plane with no food would be enough to get rid of him forever.

4 - Into the Sun: This is really a combination of several strategies, but worth mentioning anyway. At the center of the sun the Tarrasque will take massive damage, be unable to breath or eat, and be squished down to the size of blood cell. After all, the sun is right there.

5 - Harpooned by Immovable Rods: Let's say you build a cage out of immovable rods, or simply use them to harpoon the Tarrasque into the ground. Each immovable rod can hold 8,000 pounds of force. With a strength of 41, the Tarrasque can push at most about 36,000 pounds (max carrying capacity times 5). This means that 5 immovable rods can contain him. To play it safe, grab a couple dozen rods (they are only 5,000 gp a piece) to skewer and restrain him. Technically, immovable rods can be moved with a strength 30 check, meaning the Tarrasque has to roll a 15 or better. However, it is perfectly reasonable (at least in my mind) to assume that being harpooned into the ground and restrained incurs at least a -6 penalty to strength checks, making the roll impossible.

6 - Helm of Opposite Alignment: This method is a bit risky, but can potentially be a huge boon for realm of Good. As the Tarrasque is regenerating (or when he is up, if you can figure out how), plop a Helm of Opposite Alignment onto his head. This will have a 50% chance of making him either Lawful Good or Chaotic Good, and with an intelligence of 3 and wisdom of 15, he should hopefully realize that wanton destruction is wrong and join your party. Worst case scenario, he becomes chaotic or lawful evil, and easier for your friendly neighborhood paladin to smite. Keep in mind that he's only got a 15% chance to fail this will save, so it may take a few tries, but hopefully you are attempting this method when he's already out for the count.

EDIT: I did have not seen Polar Midnight before! Very nice, and added to the blog post.


Kiinyan wrote:
I can see the argument of the Tarrasque coming back from suffocation, since it is a save, but not starvation. Starvation is not a form of attack, and it cannot be healed until food is consumed. As long as the Tarrasque is kept away from food (I believe they cut it up and moved it into a small demiplane) it will eventually die simply because starvation damage cannot be healed and even Tarrasque Regeneration only specifies attacks or instant death saves, which starvation is neither.

My regeneration states that I regenerate "even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect".

Surely you're not reading that to mean "ONLY if disintegrated or slain by a death effect"?

The key here is that I regenerate. Period. Full stop. Then some more is added to cover things that often defeat regeneration to say that "even" those things cannot stop the regeneration.

Starvation causes non-lethal (and eventually lethal) damage. I regenerate from all damage. Starvation can cause things to die if they fail enough saves, I regenerate from dying because of failed saves.

Or to take it further, you might be looking at the "rock vs. hard place" scenario, where starvation says not even magic that restores HP can heal starvation damage vs. my regeneration saying that nothing can kill me and I can regenerate even from magical deaths.

Bah, starvation is just natural stuff, but I am the Greatest of ALL Magical Beasts, my hard place trumps starvation's rock all day long!

That's all you need to know.


Uldain the Slayer
Human Fighter (Weapon Master) 20 CR 19

Init +8; Senses Perception +22

DEFENSE:

AC 40, touch 23, flat-footed 33 (+8 armor, +6 Dex, +5 deflection, +1 Insight, +7 Shield, +1 Dodge, +2 Defiant Magical Beasts)
hp 244 (20d10+120)
Fort +23, Ref+ 18, Will+ 13; +5 vs. effects targeting a Greatsword held.
Defensive Abilities Weapon Guard (Greatsword) +5, Mirror Move, Immunity to bleed; DR 2/-, Damage Resistance Electricity (2)

OFFENSE:

Speed 30 ft., 40 ft. (boots)
Melee Tarrasque Fang;+4 Bane (Magical Beasts) Impact, Speed Adamantine Greatsword +40/+40/+35/+30/+25 (3d6+26/17-20/x3 plus 2d6 vs. Magical Beasts)
Power Attack Tarrasque Fang +40/+40/+29/+24/+19 (3d6+44/17-20/ x3 plus 2d6 vs. Magical Beasts)
Special Attacks weapon mastery (Greatsword), weapon training (Greatsword +5), Reliable Strike (4/day), Deadly Critical (3/day), Unstoppable Strike

STATISTICS:

Str 28, Dex 22, Con 20, lnt 14, Wis 12, Cha 10
Base Atk +20; CMB +31; CMD 52, (57 vs Disarm, Sunder)
Feats Combat Reflexes, Crippling Critical, Critical Focus,
Critical Mastery, Critical Versatility - Exhausting
Critical, Devastating Strike, Dodge, Furious Focus, Greater Penetrating
Strike, Greater Vital Strike, Greater Weapon
Focus (Greatsword), Greater Weapon Specialization (Greatsword), Improved
Critical (Greatsword), Improved Vital Strike, Mobility, Penetrating Strike, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Stunning Assault, Tiring Critical, Vital Strike, Weapon Focus (Greatsword),
Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)
Skills Acrobatics +27 (+36 Jump), Climb +10, Knowledge Arcana +23, Knowledge Dungeoneering +21,
Knowledge Local +7, Knowledge Nature +8, Knowledge Planar +8, Knowledge Religion +8, Linguistics +3,
Perception +22, Survival +10 (+14 Underground), Swim +10
Languages Common, Giant, Ulphen, Aklo
SQ Log Roller (Forest), Reactionary
Combat Gear Stone Horse (Destrier);
Other Gear + 5 Defiant (Magical Beasts), Fortification (Moderate), Stanching Eel Hide Studded Leather,
+ 5 Animated, Arrow Catching, Arrow Deflection Paueliel Heavy Wooden Shield,
belt of physical perfection +6, Boots of Striding and Springing, Boots of the Cat (not equipped),
cloak of resistance +5, Darklands Goggles, Deliquescent Gloves, Hand of Glory, Handy Haversack,
Headband of Unshakeable Resolve (3/Day), Ioun Stone (Dusty Rose Prism), Ioun Stone ( pale green prism),
Manual of War (1/Day), Ring of Freedom of Movement, Ring of Protection +5, Ring of Regeneration,
4,718 gp

Alright basic here is to power attack him into submission, while the rest of the team would finish whatever means it is to keep him down. The +4 Bane sword should bypass his DR 15/Epic as it functions as a +6 weapon. GM is being a pain then you still reduce his DR by 10 by Greater Penetrating strike.

When you go to close, (possibly riding the Stone Horse in and leaping off with an impressive Acrobatics check) using Spring Attack to get up close with him, Greater Vital Strike W/PA should deal the following
3d6+52/17-20/x3(or4) plus 2d6 Bane and 9d6 extra damage. That would be a minimum of 55 (x4 crit) plus 11, or 231 damage in one blow (again assuming that you crit) just short of causing a terrible DC 15 Massive Damage save.

Then you continue to rain blows down on his poor little head, at 3d6+46/17-20/x3(4) plus 2d6. When you connect with a full round of attacks the bare minimum adds up. 49 damage *(5 attacks + crit multipliers) + 10 or 255 damage a round with no crits.

Every Critical you should apply the Crippling Critical effect (even if the GM defends it only lasting 1 round that is still a round where it has half speed. Exhausting Critical is also great as there is no save involved. You have a DC 34 effect on criticals involving a save, so even the Tarrasque fails on a 2.


I would disagree that starvation wouldn't kill the Tarrasque. His giant lumbering self would just wander off to another region with food, and or return to the core of the planet to hibernate before he starved and just come back later on hungry again. So might it kill him? i suppose it might, but good luck detaining him to the point that he actually starves to death instead of hibernating for another 1000 years.


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DM_Blake wrote:
I do not know what you are, but your "mouth" seems too small for the task,

Yep, it looks small. But there's nothing that says I have any limit on the size of creature I can swallow in one gulp. And you regenerate . . . where? You don't have any body left, not anything, not even the bit of stuff left after after a disintegrate. You're just gone. Even effects that don't need a body only have a 50% chance of allowing recovery from me.


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I would suggest gnomes have the best chance of defeating the tarrasque, and only if we run out of them should other beings be tried.


Here is an interesting thought, What would happen if you beat down the Tarrasque and then summoned and bound a Memitim Psychopomp to the area where it was at?

The Memitim has an interesting ability going for it, Terminal Aura (Su) which submits any creature within 50 feet at -1 hp to a Bleed spell if it fails a DC 23 Will save.
The ability states that any creature with fast healing or regeneration must succeed on a DC 23 will save or that ability is suppressed for 1 round.

The Tarrasque states Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque’s regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect.

So my question here is whether the Memitims Terminal Aura counts as an attack? I understand that it won't 'kill' the creature because the moment the Memitim is removed the regeneration would resume, but would it not stand to reason that it would keep the beast down for as long as it was subjected.

I'm just wondering which of these RAW supercedes the others you know? Such as other specific rules allowing Keen or Improved Critical to be augmented by class effects, (Tome of Secrets broken Swashbuckler I'm looking at you) unfortunately I'm not positive what other effects happen like this, so I would appreciate some insight.

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