Who is the homosexual Iconic?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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I like seeing the different characters. It annoys the hell out of me when people go, 'you can't have that colour/sexual orientation/other type of person in a story with a medieval style era!' It shows a distinct lack of actual historical knowledge for one, and is usually an excuse secondly. If you can have dragons and elves you can manage the odd gay person or someone with darker skin.

I must remember to go grab the comics at some point - they sound interesting.


JonGarrett wrote:

I like seeing the different characters. It annoys the hell out of me when people go, 'you can't have that colour/sexual orientation/other type of person in a story with a medieval style era!' It shows a distinct lack of actual historical knowledge for one, and is usually an excuse secondly. If you can have dragons and elves you can manage the odd gay person or someone with darker skin.

I must remember to go grab the comics at some point - they sound interesting.

They are really good! I would suggest that you do. Apparently there is a hardcover compendium coming out soon for the first story arc. A great way for you to jump in if you would like. Also, I must sneak in a suggestion for you to also check out Skullkickers, as well as the 4th Ed DnD comic, which was actually pretty decent.

...Also not fantasy at all, but look at Atomic Robo too. Because that is an awesome comic.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Toadkiller Dog wrote:
Quote:
Am I the only person who thinks...who cares?
It seems to me that too much emphasis being given to political corectness. There's the same number of male and female iconics, so it makes sense they'd push the idea of enforcing it in other areas, whether it's skin color, sexual orientation or whatnot.

There can't be the same number of male and female Iconics; there are twenty-one Iconics altogether.

Eleven for the Core classes.
Six for the APG base classes.
One for the Magus.
One for the Gunslinger.
Two for the Ninja and Samurai alternate classes (and none for the Antipaladin alternate class).


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Gorbacz wrote:

We've have had positive LGBTI NPCs in Pathfinder material and negative ones. It's not PC unless you're trying to portray some group as flawless in order to deflect any accusations of being critical of them.

In fact, it's much harder to avoid being PC in regard to things like, say, Lawful Good alignment.

If somebody ever comes and says "Paizo hates lesbians because there's an evil les couple in an AP, Lisa Stevens is a Tea Party gun totin' fascist" we're going to shoot that down too, so no worry.

Oh yeah, especially after Reign of Winter.

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
Set wrote:


Transgendered iconic - Sajan (whose 'quest to find his kidnapped sister' is a metaphorical quest to return to his birth gender, after having been transformed into a man)

I'm not gonna say who the transgender iconic is, but I will say this—it's not a curse, and said iconic is not trying to "return to his/her birth gender."

Tell me it's not Seelah, please.

Finally having a powerful black FEMALE character (a Paladin no less) is a huge achievement. Striping her of her gender would be a step backward. Seelah is beautiful and strong - a great role model for black female gamers. Please don't complicate her identity.

I think black women might rightly be offended if Seelah were transgendered. Black beauty is rarely celebrated in pop culture. To make Seelah transgendered would be a slight to female femininity - something western culture already delights in. If you doubt this, please do a google search for "beautiful black woman" and you'll see light-skinned, straight-haired, narrow-nosed "black" women. Enough double standards and beauty-slights against black women please.
Keep Seelah female.
Keep Seelah female.


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Silverhand wrote:


Tell me it's not Seelah, please.

Finally having a powerful black FEMALE character (a Paladin no less) is a huge achievement. Striping her of her gender would be a step backward. Seelah is beautiful and strong - a great role model for black female gamers. Please don't complicate her identity.

I think black women might rightly be offended if Seelah were transgendered. Black beauty is rarely celebrated in pop culture. To make Seelah transgendered would be a slight to female femininity - something western culture already delights in. If you doubt this, please do a google search for "beautiful black woman" and you'll see light-skinned, straight-haired, narrow-nosed "black" women. Enough double standards and beauty-slights against black women please.
Keep Seelah female.
Keep Seelah female.

I absolutely cannot agree. Even if Seelah were transgender, she would be female because that's what transgender MEANS. She would also look exactly the same. "Stripping her of her gender"? Please.

That said, I think she's supposed to be cisgendered and I agree that she's very cool.

Liberty's Edge

Mortuum wrote:
Silverhand wrote:


Tell me it's not Seelah, please.

Finally having a powerful black FEMALE character (a Paladin no less) is a huge achievement. Striping her of her gender would be a step backward. Seelah is beautiful and strong - a great role model for black female gamers. Please don't complicate her identity.

I think black women might rightly be offended if Seelah were transgendered. Black beauty is rarely celebrated in pop culture. To make Seelah transgendered would be a slight to female femininity - something western culture already delights in. If you doubt this, please do a google search for "beautiful black woman" and you'll see light-skinned, straight-haired, narrow-nosed "black" women. Enough double standards and beauty-slights against black women please.
Keep Seelah female.
Keep Seelah female.

I absolutely cannot agree. Even if Seelah were transgender, she would be female because that's what transgender MEANS. She would also look exactly the same. "Stripping her of her gender"? Please.

That said, I think she's supposed to be cisgendered and I agree that she's very cool.

With respect, I am aware of what transgender means. The fact that her appearance wouldn't change (that is, being physically female and therefore looking physically female) isn't the issue.

I must inform you that femininity and beauty issues are extremely political in the black community. Black women who look black (that is: don't have light skin, thin noses or chemically straightened hair) are not portrayed as beautiful or feminine in mainstream media.

My point: do not further marginalize an already beleaguered group just to help another marginalized group. Authentically progressive movements would NOT do that. Further - why is it that a minority would be made transgender? In 30 Rock parlance Seelah would become a "twofor" that is "Hey, we've got a black woman AND a transgendered character!" Making Seelah a twofor (that is, two for one token minority) is insulting to any person aware of black politics.

In short: the politics surrounding black beauty is something I'd wager most paizo posters are less aware of than transgenered LGBT issues. Please proceed with care - and look into my point before dismissing it. That would be insensitive. ;)


You really don't need to inform me of that. I'm well aware of it. I wasn't saying those issues aren't real or important, I was just saying that being trans is compatible with having feminine beauty.

I know what a twofor is too. Obviously if they were to use her to tick as many boxes as possible that would be tasteless, but that shouldn't mean it's not ok to write m-f black characters.

I'm not trying to dismiss you, it's just the language you were using made it sound like you were equating "transgender" with "man pretending to be a woman".

Liberty's Edge

Mortuum wrote:

You really don't need to inform me of that. I'm well aware of it. I wasn't saying those issues aren't real or important, I was just saying that being trans is compatible with having feminine beauty.

I know what a twofor is too. Obviously if they were to use her to tick as many boxes as possible that would be tasteless, but that shouldn't mean it's not ok to write m-f black characters.

I'm not trying to dismiss you, it's just the language you were using made it sound like you were equating "transgender" with "man pretending to be a woman".

Fair points.

I simply find the idea of Seelah being a twofor utterly distasteful and frankly against the spirit of progress that Paizo usually aspires to. Ticking as many boxes as possible sums it up well.

I'm sure you can see the complexity that emerges from this issue. I'm merely pointing out that there is a real risk of unintentionally doing more harm than good by choosing Seelah to be transgendered as it pertains to black femininity and beauty.

As an aside, Seelah came up this weekend when a white chap was explaining Pathfinder's cultural breadth to a black woman in a comic store. She was intrigued. This stuff really happens.

Lastly, as for writing m-f black characters: I have no problem with it - so long as it doesn't become yet another twofor situation where as man boxes as possible are being checked is the character in question was a secondary (minority) character. In this case it would be rather insidious if it were just another token offering: looking progressive while not wishing to offend a majority of white readership. Let's say no.

I'll close here. Thank you for your insight and patience.


To be honest, I never liked the "This character isn't black/brown enough" argument. I can't even explain why. I understand where it's coming from, but it just feels like there shouldn't be this regulation on how dark someone's skin has to be to be considered black enough or brown enough. It doesn't sit well with me, and this is coming from a Hispanic male.

Liberty's Edge

Odraude wrote:
To be honest, I never liked the "This character isn't black/brown enough" argument. I can't even explain why. I understand where it's coming from, but it just feels like there shouldn't be this regulation on how dark someone's skin has to be to be considered black enough or brown enough. It doesn't sit well with me, and this is coming from a Hispanic male.

It isn't really about skin tone. It's about trying to look less "black" in order to be considered beautiful.

From a role-playing perspective, imagine you're creating a black, female character and you want her to have dark skin, traditional black hair and a broad nose. You go to do a google search for "beautiful black woman". You'll find that most results are straight-haired, narrow-nosed, lighter-skinned women. Or try this experiment: simply think of a famous black woman and then think about her hair type. Arguably the only woman who pulls off traditional (non chemically treated, non weave) hair in the main stream is Lauryn Hill.

Lastly: if you want to see if hair is political, simply ask a black woman about her hair.

Please see Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie's BBC interview 'Hair is political'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ck2o34DS64&feature=player_embedded
about 4 minutes in.

Or the documentary "Good Hair" by Chris Rock.

As for the issue of being "black enough": that's beyond the scope of my post so I'll leave it to someone else. :)


Odraude wrote:
To be honest, I never liked the "This character isn't black/brown enough" argument. I can't even explain why. I understand where it's coming from, but it just feels like there shouldn't be this regulation on how dark someone's skin has to be to be considered black enough or brown enough. It doesn't sit well with me, and this is coming from a Hispanic male.

You've actually found the point, you just haven't realised it yet. The problem isn't that they should look "more black", the problem is that there is a widely held attitude that they should look "less black". The whole point is there's no such thing as black enough or white enough.

Silverhand, sure, I see the complexity and you're right, I think we understand each other, so we're done here.


JonGarrett wrote:

I like seeing the different characters. It annoys the hell out of me when people go, 'you can't have that colour/sexual orientation/other type of person in a story with a medieval style era!' It shows a distinct lack of actual historical knowledge for one, and is usually an excuse secondly. If you can have dragons and elves you can manage the odd gay person or someone with darker skin.

I must remember to go grab the comics at some point - they sound interesting.

Also Shakespeare is full of sex (especiallythe comedies), gender politics, potential LGBT sub-text (the golden youth sonnets) and race (Othello and the 'dark lady' sonnets).


Shakespeare is hundreds of years after that period, but you're right. It's not like gay people stopped existing with the rise of Christianity and suddenly reappeared with the trial of Oscar Wilde.

Liberty's Edge

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What really is "the period"? Golarion isn't Earth, and has things throughout it borrowed from all over history. While the cultural D&D groundwork is medieval, Golarion has clear analogues to revolutionary France and USA (which is two hundred years post-Shakespeare), to the "golden age" of piracy (which starts around a time similar to or a bit before Shakespeare and extends a century or two past that), and, as has been pointed out, is in a lot of ways more socially advanced than even today's world (in terms of women being able to be in leadership positions). (And, of course, in places it's further behind, as evidenced by the widespread public social acceptance of slavery in many places.)

Plus, there are elves who took a vacation on another planet, orcs and dwarves who came from deep below the earth, open and widespread magic, undead lords who have ruled countries, a country that quite literally made a deal with devils to maintain order, and a number of other things that Earth didn't really have during its medieval period.

It's a fictional world that draws inspiration (and, sometimes, literal mythology, in the case of Baba Yaga) from all over human history, literature, and culture. Insisting that something doesn't fit in Golarion because it wasn't in European medieval history (even if you're correct in that insistance) doesn't make sense. It's its own fictional world.

Silver Crusade

rknop wrote:

What really is "the period"? Golarion isn't Earth, and has things throughout it borrowed from all over history. While the cultural D&D groundwork is medieval, Golarion has clear analogues to revolutionary France and USA (which is two hundred years post-Shakespeare), to the "golden age" of piracy (which starts around a time similar to or a bit before Shakespeare and extends a century or two past that), and, as has been pointed out, is in a lot of ways more socially advanced than even today's world (in terms of women being able to be in leadership positions). (And, of course, in places it's further behind, as evidenced by the widespread public social acceptance of slavery in many places.)

Plus, there are elves who took a vacation on another planet, orcs and dwarves who came from deep below the earth, open and widespread magic, undead lords who have ruled countries, a country that quite literally made a deal with devils to maintain order, and a number of other things that Earth didn't really have during its medieval period.

It's a fictional world that draws inspiration (and, sometimes, literal mythology, in the case of Baba Yaga) from all over human history, literature, and culture. Insisting that something doesn't fit in Golarion because it wasn't in European medieval history (even if you're correct in that insistance) doesn't make sense. It's its own fictional world.

All of which, of course, leads to the all important question that I asked in another thread months ago, but nobody ever had a definite answer for: Are there shoelaces in Golarion? My prankster bard really wants to know!

Paizo Employee Developer

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Seelah's not transgendered. There's art in Dark Markets of her as a little girl.


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Fromper wrote:
All of which, of course, leads to the all important question that I asked in another thread months ago, but nobody ever had a definite answer for: Are there shoelaces in Golarion? My prankster bard really wants to know!

Shoelaces, bootlaces, lacing for pants, skirts, shirts, dresses, laces for lacing up corsets, laces for lashing on codpieces, laces for fastening on swords, shields and daggers, utilitarian laces, fancy decorative laces... I think your prankster bard will be quite happy.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Odraude wrote:
The comics revealed that it was Kyra, the iconic Cleric.

What comic was this in?

Silver Crusade

Feiya wrote:
Fromper wrote:
All of which, of course, leads to the all important question that I asked in another thread months ago, but nobody ever had a definite answer for: Are there shoelaces in Golarion? My prankster bard really wants to know!
Shoelaces, bootlaces, lacing for pants, skirts, shirts, dresses, laces for lacing up corsets, laces for lashing on codpieces, laces for fastening on swords, shields and daggers, utilitarian laces, fancy decorative laces... I think your prankster bard will be quite happy.

So which would Drandle Dreng wear? The gnome prankster bard really wants to stealth under his desk during a mission briefing and tie them together...


Fromper wrote:
Feiya wrote:
Fromper wrote:
All of which, of course, leads to the all important question that I asked in another thread months ago, but nobody ever had a definite answer for: Are there shoelaces in Golarion? My prankster bard really wants to know!
Shoelaces, bootlaces, lacing for pants, skirts, shirts, dresses, laces for lacing up corsets, laces for lashing on codpieces, laces for fastening on swords, shields and daggers, utilitarian laces, fancy decorative laces... I think your prankster bard will be quite happy.
So which would Drandle Dreng wear? The gnome prankster bard really wants to stealth under his desk during a mission briefing and tie them together...

Their heart, on their sleeve.


i know who is the Iconic homosexual!!

... it is Harsk the Ranger Dwarf!!

Why?
its quite simple:

He is the only dwarf in the whole campaign who doesn´t fit in any duty of a common dwarf

-no smithing, no stone working, no crafting, no jewells apraiser, he likes the open spaces and landscapes besides being inside a mountain... he actualy is a ranger, don´t fight with hammers or axes, he actualy uses crosbows at all, he doesn´t like the alcohol...
so, if Harsk isn´t, i dont know who may be then!!

Here´s his story:
"Harsk is, in many ways, not your standard dwarf. He prefers the wide skies of the open plains, disdains the taste of alcohol, and prefers to handle his battles at range rather than in melee. Yet few dare to mock
him for his choices, for if there’s anywhere that Harsk is dwarven, it is in his gruff and ofputting attitude. Much of his anger stems from the death of his brother’s warband. Slain to a man by giants, Harsk came upon the slaughter moments too late to save his brother. Harsk’s hatred of giants has fueled him and shapes his life.
He prefers strong tea over alcohol (to keep his senses sharp), the wildlands of the surface world (where giants can be found), and the crossbow over the axe (which allows him to start fights faster).
His companions value his skill at combat even if they’re somewhat afraid of him."

Question: there is a "must be" homosexual in the iconic characters?


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is it me?

Grand Lodge

Only you can answer that TCG.

Put me in the I don't particulary care column but I'd laugh if it were Varleros and he was just over compensating.


Helaman wrote:
Only you can answer that TCG.

Well, I'm gay and I'm iconic. So... Yes. I'm the Gay Iconic.

Paizo staff, please make a note. Thank you.


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Harsk isn't gay, he's tsundere.

Then again, all dwarves are tsundere.


James Jacobs wrote:
Shalafi2412 wrote:
I thought that there was an iconic anti-paladin.
Not really. There's a picture of an antipaladin that gets used a couple times, but we're not treating him as an iconic character.

You should, everyone remembers Venger from the D&D Comics...You need an iconic big bad...and Anti-paladins are Big and BAD....


SImRobert2001 wrote:
Odraude wrote:
The comics revealed that it was Kyra, the iconic Cleric.
What comic was this in?

4th or 5th one. idk


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I for one respect the iconics privacey.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Odraude wrote:
SImRobert2001 wrote:
Odraude wrote:
The comics revealed that it was Kyra, the iconic Cleric.
What comic was this in?
4th or 5th one. idk

Oh, okay, I found it now. Its when she's having the hallucination, and remembering her past.


Set wrote:
Rankovich wrote:

There are thousands of her in Golarion. Mitosis is the only explanation.

(mystery of the tattoos solved)

Indeed, the tattoos, which are different depending on which generation of Seoni you are encountering, are the only way to tell them apart!

Beware imitation Seonis, which can be recognized by unauthenticated tattoos or yellow-blonde hair, as these are mere simulacra of the genuine Seonis created here at Seoni-Fresh Farms, Ltd.

So won't the real Seoni please stand up, please stand up, please stand up, please stand up...


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Feiya wrote:
Fromper wrote:
All of which, of course, leads to the all important question that I asked in another thread months ago, but nobody ever had a definite answer for: Are there shoelaces in Golarion? My prankster bard really wants to know!
Shoelaces, bootlaces, lacing for pants, skirts, shirts, dresses, laces for lacing up corsets, laces for lashing on codpieces, laces for fastening on swords, shields and daggers, utilitarian laces, fancy decorative laces... I think your prankster bard will be quite happy.

This made me think of Dr Seuss and it delighted me.


My guess for the transgendered iconic is Lini. Shapeshifting druid, can wear the skin that suits her etc.

Silver Crusade

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I've been avoiding saying this because I felt it would be taken as over-sensitive or over-PC but...

Transgender and transsexual are not the same thing, because gender and sex are not the same thing. Sex is your biological male or femaleness--whether you have man parts or lady parts. Gender is more mental--do you personally identify as male or female, regardless of sex or sexuality. People who are transsexual have taken steps to change their sex. People who are transgender simply identify as the opposite gender as their sex (so a transsexual is also considered transgendered, but not the other way around), although the term is also used as a general blanket term for non-"standard" gender/sex roles. In a very liberal interpretation of the term, tomboys are transgender because they don't fit the "standard" sex role for females, though most psychologists would not consider them as such because females in "traditionally" male jobs/hobbies/etc are generally accepted as normal in today's society.

With that out of the way, from what I've read here my vote is for the alchemist as transgender, either as also transsexual or attempting to make the change. Harsk is possible, since he already breaks so many traditional roles for his people, but I wouldn't throw my vote all the way for him. This whole discussion makes me want to read the comics...they sound like a fun read!

Liberty's Edge

Harsk is transspecies... a biological dwarf who acts more like an elf.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
rknop wrote:
Harsk is transspecies... a biological dwarf who acts more like an elf.

::Immediately finds nearest hard cover.::

"Pst, Dude! Wars have been started over lesser slurs."

Dark Archive

James Martin wrote:
I don't think the iconic is actually trans-gendered, they're trans-racial! Oh yes, Merisiel is not really an elf at all, but merely a gnome with pretension!

In a game with reincarnation, transracialism would be a pretty normal situation to crop up.

The 1st edition Rogues Gallery dealt with humans who had been reincarnated as centaurs and lizardmen, which, for the time, was pretty radical.

Damiel would be an interesting choice for a 'trans-racial' individual, who abandoned a human (or other, perhaps Halfling?) past to remake himself as an elf.

Dark Archive

I thought I remembered reading in an early supplement or book that Valeros was gay. But in another book or supplement I remembered reading he wasn't. Does anyone know if he is or isn't?

Scarab Sages

Dazz I was just heading on to this thread to say pretty much the same thing and that I hope, really hope, Paizo handle this issue well.

We don't know what the characters status is, transgender, transexual or otherwise so trans*/trans- would be the usual description. Of course once we know who it is they should be called "male" or "female" depending on their preference.


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Evil Genius Prime wrote:
I thought I remembered reading in an early supplement or book that Valeros was gay. But in another book or supplement I remembered reading he wasn't. Does anyone know if he is or isn't?

I think the default assumption of the Paizo staff is that unless specifically stated otherwise, the iconics should be considered bisexual.

I don't think Valeros is specifically gay, though. Too much of his backstory involves skirt-chasing, and including that just to make it seem like hes overcompensating or in the closet when there's no real indication that homophobia is a major problem in Golarion (outside of a few regional areas maybe) would be reaching a bit.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TheWarriorPoet519 wrote:
I think the default assumption of the Paizo staff is that unless specifically stated otherwise, the iconics should be considered bisexual.

According to James Jacobs, there's one gay male Iconic, one gay female Iconic, one transsexual Iconic, and one bisexual Iconic (and that there could "well be more"). That implies that the remaining Iconics, notwithstanding those "more," are heterosexual.

Dark Archive

Alzrius wrote:
TheWarriorPoet519 wrote:
I think the default assumption of the Paizo staff is that unless specifically stated otherwise, the iconics should be considered bisexual.
According to James Jacobs, there's one gay male Iconic, one gay female Iconic, one transsexual Iconic, and one bisexual Iconic (and that there could "well be more"). That implies that the remaining Iconics, notwithstanding those "more," are heterosexual.

Will we ever find out officially which one is which? I'm excited to know. I'm very glad that the Paizo crew decided to include characters who aren't heterosexual. It's very progressive. :D


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'Paizout' claims that Amiri is a BINO (Barbarian in Name Only). She's got cafe curtains and track lighting in her yurt and knows the use of every fork in a placesetting.


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My question is... why? What possible reason do the developers have for including transgender or sexual orientation in the back story? Considering pure statistics - out of 21 (or whatever) iconics it's most likely that at most only 1 (assuming golarion society reflects USA) are gay and none of them are transgender.

From another thread, it's pretty clear the consensus of gamers do not protray sex in their games (it's a fade to black moment even if it does occur).

James - I would love a real explanantion of why you would throw this out there? The majority of your gamers clearly don't need this for their games, and the rest smacks of PC running stupid.

Silver Crusade

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One of many reasons is that gay and transgendered players exist. It sucks to always be treated like an outsider. Just ask non-white players of early editions. Inclusiveness (and treating people like people) is not political correctness.

And the presence of orientations and gender identities in no way requires sex to be portrayed either. People that don't touch on sex in there games don't stop including heterosexual married couples. Same would apply elsewhere.

Also, Golarion society isn't constrained to a reflection of US society. It explores cultures. Oth entirely fantastic and those derived from many other RL cultures(which have very different views regarding sexuality and gender identity).

Finally, LGBT folk aren't that rare.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Broken Arrow wrote:

My question is... why? What possible reason do the developers have for including transgender or sexual orientation in the back story? Considering pure statistics - out of 21 (or whatever) iconics it's most likely that at most only 1 (assuming golarion society reflects USA) are gay and none of them are transgender.

From another thread, it's pretty clear the consensus of gamers do not protray sex in their games (it's a fade to black moment even if it does occur).

James - I would love a real explanantion of why you would throw this out there? The majority of your gamers clearly don't need this for their games, and the rest smacks of PC running stupid.

Maybe because there's more to the world than just American rednecks and their narrow-minded view on things, perhaps.


My assumption used the USA because they represent the most reliable statistics - not that they were the best representation of demographics. SE Asia apparently represents the highest proportion of transgender surgery but the data is unreliable. However, even in SE Asia, the transgender population is under 1%.

Gorbacz, I read many of these threads but contribute to very few. I have respected your opinions but your belicose cry of redneck and narrow-mindedness was perhaps your poorest post I've seen from you. You completely failed to address my question in favour of a passive aggressive attack. I am neither of these things let alone an American.

Mikaze, my point is why say anything at all about their sexual orientation? How is remaining silent on the iconics preferences be construed to mean the game treats LGBT as outsiders? And yes, they are "that rare". Loosely, less than 1 in 20 for sexual preference, less than 0.01% for transgender.

My points remain;
1. statistically, it would be an anomaly for the 21 iconics to have so much representation of these minority groups
2. The description of LGBT attributes in their backgrounds smacks of PC BS.
3. These particular descriptors are unnessary in PF

I want it to be very clear - I am not pushing anti-LGBT sentiment, I am pushing the sentiment that it is an un-necessary to describe the iconics sexual natures.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Wohooo touchy touchy. Well, if you're calling the description of their LGBT attributes as "PC BS" that kind of constitutes your "coming out" as to what you really are despite all these refined words you're using.


Broken Arrow wrote:

My points remain;

1. statistically, it would be an anomaly for the 21 iconics to have so much representation of these minority groups
2. The description of LGBT attributes in their backgrounds smacks of PC BS.
3. These particular descriptors are unnessary in PF

1. Real world statistics can not reflect a fantasy world population with dozens of races, cultures and, perhaps most significantly, religions.

2. PC BS ?
3. Sexuality is a part of everybody's character. Everyone has it (even if it's asexuality), and it adds color and flavor to a character's background.

So while I do see your point and agree that not everybody wants to hear about this stuff, I welcome paizo's decision on that matter. It's positively progressive.

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