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I'll further go on record to say that at LEAST one of our iconics is homosexual. Not that we've explicitly revealed who it is yet, since that doesn't really matter at all for the purposes of Pre-Gen PCs.
First off I would like to say that I am glad there is at least one homosexual character with a strong role in the pathfinder universe.
That being said I have found it quite interesting thinking about whom it may be.At this point I would place money on it being Harsk, or Lem.
Harsk is displayed by all Dwarfish standards as both effeminate, and distant. Both of which are very clean-cut stereotypes associated with gays. Dwarves are staunchly traditional and for some reason I've never been able to imagine them being comfortable with homosexuality but maybe that's me.
I don't have much evidence of Lem other than a sweeping suspicion his character design was based off of Jericho from the New Teen Titans, a bisexual superhero originally planned to be homosexual.
Merisiel is a Callistran. Pretty sure she's bi. Wouldn't be suprised if Seoni is her lover, either.
==Aelryinth
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The comics revealed that it was Kyra, the iconic Cleric.
Really? Heh. Good enough for me.
==Aelryinth
The comics revealed that it was Kyra, the iconic Cleric.
You know, odraude, every time I see your avatar I think of Kit Fisto from Star Wars, the aquatic jedi master guy.
==Aelryinth
Creative Director
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And now I am going to the comic store because there may be some decent character development in the books.
A big part of the reason we waned to do the iconics' story in the comic book was precisely this—character development.
The fact that the iconics are so visual means that comics are the best place to do this.
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I would have said his horse, but there you have it.
==Aelryinth
I love everyone (except the monsters, and Thrunies, and Alain, and Lini's tiger - I'm not a mouse)!
The comics revealed that it was Kyra, the iconic Cleric.You know, odraude, every time I see your avatar I think of Kit Fisto from Star Wars, the aquatic jedi master guy.
==Aelryinth
I don't watch/read a lot of Star Wars (though I think I know who you're talking about), but Kit Fisto sounds like the best name ever.
I would have said his horse, but there you have it.==Aelryinth
I'd say Mikaze has it. From his write up he's way too self centered for it to be anybody but himself.
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Isn't one transgender, as well? If so, my bet is on Ezren. The idea of him in drag is delightful.
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My theory of the day, subject to change now-ish;
Gay male iconic - Ezren
Gay female iconic - Kyra
Bisexual iconic - Merisiel
Transgendered iconic - Sajan (whose 'quest to find his kidnapped sister' is a metaphorical quest to return to his birth gender, after having been transformed into a man)
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Transgendered iconic - Sajan (whose 'quest to find his kidnapped sister' is a metaphorical quest to return to his birth gender, after having been transformed into a man)
I'm not gonna say who the transgender iconic is, but I will say this—it's not a curse, and said iconic is not trying to "return to his/her birth gender."
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As long as the transgender character isn't Seoni, Lini, or Merisiel, I will be fine. But I do hope the transgender character is the Alchemist iconic(don't remember his name).
I think Alain would be too in love with himself to care about men or woman in that way.
Kyra being gay for some reason doesn't surprise me maybe because of that one picture of her in the bath with....
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I think the ninja is transgendered, merisiel and seltyiel bi, alain and kyra gay
Expressly, Alain at the very least has a ton of heterosexual sex, although it's unknown whether he actually pursues it from a romantic standpoint or as a form of self-validation.
Huh. There's an iconic ninja? I thought there weren't iconic ninjas, samurai, or antipaladins since those classes are technically just alternate base and core classes.
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Considering the number of images of Seoni everywhere and her appearance in a sizable number of the adventures, I believe she is asexual, reproducing via binary fission.
There are thousands of her in Golarion. Mitosis is the only explanation.
(mystery of the tattoos solved)
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There are thousands of her in Golarion. Mitosis is the only explanation.
(mystery of the tattoos solved)
Indeed, the tattoos, which are different depending on which generation of Seoni you are encountering, are the only way to tell them apart!
Beware imitation Seonis, which can be recognized by unauthenticated tattoos or yellow-blonde hair, as these are mere simulacra of the genuine Seonis created here at Seoni-Fresh Farms, Ltd.
Transgendered iconic - Sajan (whose 'quest to find his kidnapped sister' is a metaphorical quest to return to his birth gender, after having been transformed into a man)
While not canonical, this is a really great story idea.
I thought that there was an iconic anti-paladin.
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In all honesty I hope Alain is bisexual, in the Grecian ideal. His sex life would be more composed of self-indulgence through both genders. His love life with women romantic with chivalry (and a lot of sex) like the Western Idealization and the male on male relations as a mean of bonding among close friends.
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I'm not gonna say who the transgender iconic is, but I will say this—it's not a curse, and said iconic is not trying to "return to his/her birth gender."
My money is on Ezren for the transgender iconic. Just look at the art for the Girdle of Opposite Gender. It's only a "cursed item" if you didn't want the change.
Huh. That's an interesting idea for a character development quest...
-Aaron
so by the time all of this is sorted out which will be the token straight character?
No one, thus far. I believe that the official word on the iconics was that they were all to be considered bisexual unless proven otherwise.
so by the time all of this is sorted out which will be the token straight character?
In Shyamalan's screenplay, the last straight iconic is... Elminster.
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Damiel has been a popular choice as the transgendered iconic for a while I think.
I have to admit, I'm kinda sold on the idea. And not just because two of his recent artwork appearances have painted him as Tilda Swinton and David Bowie respectively.
Not just because of that, that is.
No problem with Kyra being gay, but having seen the comic, I think trying to get it on in full armour (including helmet) is a bit hardcore.
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Am I the only person who thinks...who cares? A character's sexuality is pretty low on the list of things that concern or entertain me. Kyra is not interesting because of her orientation, but rather struggling to balance serving her goddess and her personal aims of serving herself,in finding love. The internal conflict and struggle to relate to others that provokes with those who cannot possibly understand the deepness of her faith in a world where I imagine many people habitually worship multiple gods and see no problem with casual love. (See: A certain roguish elf) Which would pretty much be just the same as if she were straight.
That is why I like the way it is handled so much in the comics. It feels organic to the character and the setting and not for a cheap shock or controversy type thing as it often dealt with in...other certain comics and media. I would urge pumping the brakes a bit before just bringing in all sorts of different characters and their sexuality as meaningful parts of the story of those characters.
For instance, the OP brought up the possibility of Harsk being gay. Which is interesting, but only if handled in the right manner. For example, Harsk dealing with Dwarven society as a clear allegory for the modern gay-rights struggle for social recognition would be at best ham handed and at worst downright horrible. However, we take that same situation and instead make Harsk's rejection from Dwarven society not because he is homosexual, but because he breaks with sacred Dwarven Tradition of doing what must be done to carry on the clan, and not just because he is homosexual, but rather that it upsets the clearly defined roles of Dwarven society? Now that is super interesting.
The Dwarves see their traditions as what keeps them Dwarvish, the family and clan and race and anybody that breaks those traditions for whatever reason are threats that must be exiled, less they start unraveling the fabric of dwarvish society. That I would be fascinated to read about, that conflict and how it is dealt with.
I hope that this long winded bit gets my point across clearly enough. A little bit is a good thing. Too much and it all gets bland and muddled. Hence the pumping the brakes bit above. I want Kyra's arc somewhat resolved first before we plunge headlong into another one. Also because I'm somewhat selfish and want these reveals to be done in comics/books and not just as an announcement. Too many interesting story possibilities and moments would be missed, IMO.
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Am I the only person who thinks...who cares?
It seems to me that too much emphasis being given to political corectness. There's the same number of male and female iconics, so it makes sense they'd push the idea of enforcing it in other areas, whether it's skin color, sexual orientation or whatnot.
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Am I the only person who thinks...who cares?It seems to me that too much emphasis being given to political corectness. There's the same number of male and female iconics, so it makes sense they'd push the idea of enforcing it in other areas, whether it's skin color, sexual orientation or whatnot.
Quick! Go out and do something about the fact that the numbers of women and men are about equal! YOU CAN STOP THIS MADNESS!
Am I the only person who thinks...who cares?It seems to me that too much emphasis being given to political corectness. There's the same number of male and female iconics, so it makes sense they'd push the idea of enforcing it in other areas, whether it's skin color, sexual orientation or whatnot.
I would disagree, Toadkiller. I think it is a good thing if it is handled right. Political Correctness to me is doing it simply to be "correct" rather than telling an interesting story. I have not seen that yet.
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Valeros and Alain, sitting in a tree...
I don't see the diversity of the iconics as political correctness. I think it's more about having a little something for everybody. Most fantasy stories hinge on the ability to relate to the characters. This is just another way people can relate to certain iconics.
I think political correctness would be being overly careful to portray each of the LGBT iconics as boring and flawless, so it doesn't seem like Paizo is picking on people of that sexuality. But every iconic story is interesting, complete with flaws and mishaps (or downright evil actions). And I suspect that depending on the region where the iconic grew up, they could have faced similar hardships to those who share their sexuality in the real world. I don't think that's political correctness; it's just trying to be real.
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We've have had positive LGBTI NPCs in Pathfinder material and negative ones. It's not PC unless you're trying to portray some group as flawless in order to deflect any accusations of being critical of them.
In fact, it's much harder to avoid being PC in regard to things like, say, Lawful Good alignment.
If somebody ever comes and says "Paizo hates lesbians because there's an evil les couple in an AP, Lisa Stevens is a Tea Party gun totin' fascist" we're going to shoot that down too, so no worry.