Ways to lower saving throws


Advice


I'm thinking of making a support character for a somewhat caster heavy group, and was wondering what I should use for it. Lowering saving throws seemed like the most logical decision to go with, but I'm not really sure what sort of effective debuffs can be reliably applied.

Currently I know of:

Demoralise for -2
Sicken for -2 (via a cruel weapon eventually to be picked up)

are there any other large scale saving throw reducing effects or items?

Scarab Sages

A wizard of the Void Elemental school has the ability to loer saving throws by quite a lot as one of it's school powers:

"Reveal Weakness (Su)

When you activate this school power as a standard action, you select a foe within 30 feet. That creature takes a penalty to its AC and on saving throws equal to 1/2 your caster level (minimum –1) for 1 round. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence bonus."

Grand Lodge

The witch's evil eye does this, particularly combined with misfortune.

Sovereign Court

The witch is the queen of lowering saving throws. Evil Eye, Misfortune, and cackle can keep an opponent's throws in the gutter, with practically no way to avoid.

Of course, if your group is already heavy on casters, another half-BAB class might not be the best. In that case I'd say go for a Dazzling Display build - take your pick. The Inquisitor could be a good choice.


Thanks for the advice. Hexes seem really good. I never noticed that evil eye applied for a round even when it failed. It seems really nice. It would take a little longer, but would a reach weapon using hexcraft magus work?

The attack of opportunity with enforcer could apply shaken onto most melee targets that try to get in range to attack, while saving the standard action for using evil eye. Or on the following turn cackle + spellstrike as a standard action (which would also apply sickened if I had a cruel weapon by then).


Madness Domain.

Vision of Madness (Sp): You can give a creature a vision of madness as a melee touch attack. Choose one of the following: attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks. The target receives a bonus to the chosen rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1) and a penalty to the other two types of rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum –1). This effect fades after 3 rounds. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

Lasts for three rounds and applies to attack rolls as well as saving throws. Terribly, terribly mean.


A sword Saint Samurai with a +1 Cruel Katana will do wonders with a -4 to nearly everyone's saving throws.
Give 'em cornugon smash and shatter defenses and you're set.


Vision of Madness is excellent. Cleric also has the Prayer spell for a no-save -1 on all enemy rolls along with a +1 to allied rolls.

Enervation is also a great way to lower saves, along with lowering a lot of other things, and is spammable.


Chaos domain, Dual cursed Oracle; not penalties, but forced rerolls. Variant Channeling has some penalty-imposing abilities.


Prayer: every enemy gets a -1 luck penalty on every save.


Bards get Dirge of Doom at level 8, which makes enemies shaken without a save, lowering their saves by 2. Granted, that is a while to wait, but it is useful.


Elosandi wrote:

I'm thinking of making a support character for a somewhat caster heavy group, and was wondering what I should use for it. Lowering saving throws seemed like the most logical decision to go with, but I'm not really sure what sort of effective debuffs can be reliably applied.

Currently I know of:

Demoralise for -2
Sicken for -2 (via a cruel weapon eventually to be picked up)

are there any other large scale saving throw reducing effects or items?

Highly, highly recommend an Elven Void Mage with the favored class option.

No one will ever save again.


With the right build a rogue thug could sicken and demorilze in the same strike (via cornugon smash and an archetype ability).


Enforcer + Called Shot to the vitals = Sickened + Shaken in one hit.


I would like to reiterate what Damocles Guile said. A Void Mage has the following class ability:

Reveal Weakness (Su)
When you activate this school power as a standard action, you select a foe within 30 feet. That creature takes a penalty to its AC and on saving throws equal to 1/2 your caster level (minimum –1) for 1 round. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence bonus.

Elves can use their favored class bonus to gain additional uses of this ability each day which is awesome - we had a party go through Second Darkness made up of an Elven Void Mage and three partial casters (a Summoner, a Master Summoner and an Arcane Duelist) and the combination was incredibly potent. Aura of Prescience and Void Awareness are pretty strong too.

Void Mage


minoritarian wrote:

A wizard of the Void Elemental school has the ability to loer saving throws by quite a lot as one of it's school powers:

"Reveal Weakness (Su)

When you activate this school power as a standard action, you select a foe within 30 feet. That creature takes a penalty to its AC and on saving throws equal to 1/2 your caster level (minimum –1) for 1 round. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence bonus."

Heh...hehe....aahaha....AAAHHHAAAAAAAAAHHAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

I've been looking for a way to lower the saves for a quicked suffocate wizard. This is going to be fun. DC 37 Fortitude save on a quicked, persistent suffocate? RIP.


This is quite a necro.

But all that said, if this was necro'd I'll just mention something new that also lowers saves.

Mesmer's can lower saves a fair bit last I knew~
Wiz or Witch still do it stronger. I bet.

Grand Lodge

Well since it's necro'd anyway, I'll just point out that a cleric of Tsukiyo with the madness domain going into evangelist can target multiple creatures with Vision of Madness at range. Pretty nifty.

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