Help me break my DM (He wants it!)

[bobthe2nd]

So my DM issued a challenge to me and my friends this week, he is play testing a scenario that a mutual friend made up. Its called the Ragnarok engine basically its a 240 -240 block of death and destruction designed to go up against 5-6 Level 20 pc's.
He wants us to make a group of the most broken characters possible and go against this thing. we have heroic point buy stats, 880 000g and anything from any official pathfinder source (Other than the leadership feat). So what are some of your favorite min/maxed builds / item lists. Were going to be doing this at least 3 times and each time we need a different character build. Any suggestions?

[Michael Serra]

I've never understood this. If the GM wants you dead due to his machinations, you're dead. It would take a master of the rules to perfectly balance encounters when there are so many variables involved at that point, and so much magic would have to be restricted or changed.

[bobthe2nd]

He would like us to try an break it, which is why I am asking for suggestions. Not doing this to be mean, or to break a balanced game, or to harrass my GM. He is trying to create something and wants to play test it against the broken type characters first.

[fictionfan]

O.K. then polymorth other to turn two of your friends into a genies for a bit then they can give you a +5 a score keep doing this untill everyone in the party has a +5 inherent bonus to every score. Not the most broken thing, but it's a good start.

[Psion-Psycho]

To make this work to its fullest u will need to become an undead. Best way, other than having the party wizard bring u back as one then releasing u, is to become a Lich which is very possible. The true benefit to this is using ur Cha for ur Health also the +2 all mental stats does not hurt either. That was my original plan for this character when i mad it but it ended up going with a living character since the DM did not want undead in his game on the side of those that are supposedly the Heroes.

-Race / Class-
Half - Elf / Summoner (Synthesist), Antipaladin 2, Monk 1

-Stats with out Eidolon (25 point buy)-
STR 07 (+6 item)(-6 age) = 07
DEX 07 (+6 item)(-6 age) = 07
CON 10 (-6 age) = 04
INT 13 (+3 age) = 16
WIS 17 (+6 item)(+3 age) = 26
CHA 18 (+2 racial)(+3 age)(+5 leveling)(+6 item) = 34

-Saves with out Eidolon-
Fort = 28
Reflex = 25
Will = 40

AC = 36
Touch = 23
Flat - Foot = 28

-Stats with Eidolon-
STR 29
DEX 28
CON 13
INT 16
WIS 26
CHA 34

-Saves with Eidolon-
Fort = 32
Reflex = 37
Will = 44

AC = 72 (76 with combat expertise)
Touch = 31
Flat - Foot = 58

-Eidolon Abilities-
Base - Darkvision, Evasion, Improved Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack
Form - Biped - claws, limbs (arms), limbs (legs)
Claws (x2)
limbs (arms) (x2)
Immunity (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic)
Spell Resistance (28)
Flight Su (30ft)
Improved Natural Armor (8)
Improved Damage (claws)

-Class / Feat Progression-
M 01 Dodge, Skill Focus Perception, Toughness
P O2
P 03 Combat Expertise
S 04
S 05 Extra Evolution
S 06
S 07 Combat Reflexes
S 08
S 09 Extra Evolution
S 10
S 11 Vigilant Eidolon
S 12
S 13 Extra Evolution
S 14
S 15 (insert feat here)
S 16
S 17 (insert feat here)
S 18
S 19 Extra Evolution
S 20

-Gear-
Bracers of Armor
Ring of Protection
Ring of Forcefangs
Cloak of Resistance
Amulet of Natural Armor
Headband of Mental Prowess (wis and cha)
Belt of Physical Might (str and dex)

High saves, immunities to all spell damage but positive / negative and force, and spell resistance.

[Cymric]

I see... you should make a monk, multiclass with rogue

[kmal2t]

What he's talking about is a cheese grinder. Its not that uncommon for people to do this.

[Hakka Tsadok]

Hrm...well, it depends on what the machine will throw at you. With that said, I present my options:

9 Monk/11 Inquisitor. Enjoy ignoring his save vs. Effects and having a high AC.

Anti-Paladin of the Sepulcher.

I think you will find the most success with those two.

[Darkflame]

make sure you get 2 melee with stuff like anagonize!

a wizard or maybe 2 and a witch! maybe even a paladin

[sowhereaminow]

Paladin archer. Assuming fighting evil stuff.

[Proley]

We did an Arena fight, I made a Paladin, first Feat is Fey Foundling, so you're Lay on Hands heal an extra 1/dice, you get +2 on saves v. death effects too.

By boosting your use of Lay on Hands you can provide yourself substantially more health than everyone else and your jacked charisma transmits into saves. Not the most broken combination, but it would be fairly survivable methinks.

[GM Arkwright]

Oracle of Heavens- colour spray nearly everything to death.
Zen Archer Monk- ultimate archer.
Pistola Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger- dual-wielding pistol shooter with a bazillion attacks targeting touch AC.

[Hendelbolaf]

fictionfan wrote:

O.K. then polymorth other to turn two of your friends into a genies for a bit then they can give you a +5 a score keep doing this untill everyone in the party has a +5 inherent bonus to every score. Not the most broken thing, but it's a good start.

I haven't seen Polymorph Other since AD&D, besides, I don't think any of the Polymorph spells work like that in Pathfinder. I could be wrong, but I don;t think I am.

[WrathW1zard]

It does not, your thinking the 3.5 polymorph which gave you the abilities of whatever you turned into. in pathfinder it gives you immunities based on what you turn into and ability bonuses.

d20pfsrd wrote:

Polymorph

If you use this spell to cause the target to take on the form of an animal or magical beast, the spell functions as beast shape II. If the form is that of an elemental, the spell functions as elemental body I. If the form is that of a humanoid, the spell functions as alter self. The subject may choose to resume its normal form as a full-round action; doing so ends the spell for that subject.

d20pfsrd wrote:

Elemental body

•Air elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small air elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor bonus. You also gain fly 60 feet (perfect), darkvision 60 feet, and the ability to create a whirlwind.
•Earth elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small earth elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain darkvision 60 feet and the ability to earth glide.
•Fire elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small fire elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor bonus. You gain darkvision 60 feet, resist fire 20, vulnerability to cold, and the burn ability.
•Water elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small water elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Constitution and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, the ability to create a vortex, and the ability to breathe water

[fictionfan]

I mean Polymorph Any Object.

[Jester Bobbity]

WOOHOO A CHEESE GRATER!!!

As a strategist power gamer it's one of my favorite things to do. Haven't played one in a while. I'm so excited for you!

QUE THE TWILIGHT ZONE MUSIC!!!

(deep voice) Submitted for your approval dodododododododododo

Quil(Human Vampire) Level 16/2/1/1 Monk(Sacred mountain & Flowing)/Anti-paladin/Cavalier(order of the seal)/Fighter
22,23,-,9,20,19 (With magic items)28,34,-,15,32,30
HP: 16D8+4D10+200
AC: (10 +6Nat +12Dex +11Wis)

Vampires gain Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, and Toughness as bonus feats. Monks Gain Improved Unarmed Strike
Feats: 10Levels+1Race+7Bonus(4Monk, 1Fighter, 1Cav)
Ki Diversity: When you trip spend 1 point from your ki pool as a swift action to deal damage to your opponent as if you had hit them with an unarmed strike.
Seize the Moment OR Outflank Depending on whether you have a crit machine in the party
Improved Grapple
Improved Trip
Greater Improved Trip
Vicious Stomp
Snake Style
Snake Sidewind
Snake Fang
Weapon Finesse
Agile Manuvers
Combat Expertise
Weapon Focus
Feral Combat Training
Elusive Redirection
Butterfly’s Sting
Mobility
Improved Sidestep
Sidestep
Crippling Critical

Skills (Minimums)
Sense Motive 20 Ranks to negate a hit
Acrobatics (6 ranks)

Vows (18 extra Ki points):
Celibacy, Chains, Cleanliness, Fasting, Silence, Truth

Magic Items:
Belt (+6 Str & Dex)
Book (+5 Dex & Cha)
Book (+1 Int)
Titanic Brawling Bracers of Armor +3
+4 Keen Short Sword of Ki Intensifying Speed
Gauntlets of Manuvers
Monk's Belt
Sash of Flowing Water
Wayfinder, Ebon Dusty Rose Prism
Guided Speed Amulet of mighty fists + 1

Strategy:
Roll Init. and hold action until right before the fighter (or highest melee damage dealer) Drop into snake style as a swift action, declare smite, and get to a flanking position. Trip the enemy (Free attack btw. Flowing Monk) I haven't looked at it closely, and yet I know it's The CMB for trip is high 40's, The highest CMD I've found is 64 on metterak-the-dragon-prince. If all goes perfect Quil should get 13 attacks on a flurry of blows + Ki + speed on the weapon + 3 from feats. With the monk Belt that's 26D10 With his lowest attack bonus still high enough to hit a Balor on a 1. Add his Wisdom to each attack (guided weapon) and you get 26D10+286 per round! Avg. 429 +2 neg. levels. Not to mention when the enemy gets up, attacks, or misses you get an Aoo. With the sash of water and snake style you can negate two attacks a round (which you shouldn't get because you have sidestep to move around) Each time you negate an attack it's an Aoo. Since an Aoo is a "single melee attack" and "You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack" If the enemy gets up at anytime you can trip them again. Since an Aoo is resolved BEFORE the event that triggers it you can't trip them right away, but as soon as they get up (Aoo) and swing at you (Aoo trip), you can. Anyone who can fly, should've gotten pwned by crippling critical (use the shortsword on them.) If they're still alive that is.

Rinse and repeat. Even metterak-the-dragon-prince could only take this for abuse for one round.

Also, I wrote up a Level 20 barbarian based on HERE

[Turin the Mad]

EDIT: highest "Book" CMD I recall is in the high 50s - 60 range (60 vs. trip for a mere CR 17 behemoth golem).

Given that this squad of PCs is going into a blender, I would expect CMDs that are nigh-unbeatable (70+).

[Jester Bobbity]

Oh and we have been toying with an idea in my group.

Gobin have a +4 racial to hide +4 for being small etc. Make an entire party of goblins with teamwork feats, or one 20th level Cavelier, there is one that gives the highest hide check in the party to everyone. You can use someone else's reflex save etc.

If the entire party gets together and makes their characters compliment each other (Not sure if this is possible in your game) then you can make the most uber set of goblins known to man!

[Turin the Mad]

bobthe2nd wrote:

So my DM issued a challenge to me and my friends this week, he is play testing a scenario that a mutual friend made up. Its called the Ragnarok engine basically its a 240 -240 block of death and destruction designed to go up against 5-6 Level 20 pc's.

He wants us to make a group of the most broken characters possible and go against this thing. we have heroic point buy stats, 880 000g and anything from any official pathfinder source (Other than the leadership feat). So what are some of your favorite min/maxed builds / item lists. Were going to be doing this at least 3 times and each time we need a different character build. Any suggestions?

More constructively, take Jester Bobbity's idea and run with it. Get together with your fellow players and create 3 adventuring parties. Each party should be distinctly different from each other. Have each player pick a class that they're always wanted to play at 20th.

Be sure to expect the worst. disjunctions, CR 23-25 "boss" critters, mobs of 12 "lower" CR critters. The biggest nastiest golems, and especially an enemy adventuring party. You name it, expect it, try to be well prepared for it.

[soupturtle]

You could have a look through this thread. That has a couple of level 20 characters designed to kill the 7 toughest monsters in the bestiary single-handedly. I'd recommend you to skip through most of the first page, the proper builds start somewhere around the bottom of the first page, before then it's mostly complaints about the OPs build.

In general, I'd say you want at least one save-or-suck specialist who specializes in insane DCs and incredible initiative and a couple of melee or ranged specialists with unhittable AC and saves and insane damage. A perception specialist might be worthwhile as well.

[Crosswind]

soupturtle wrote:

You could have a look through this thread. That has a couple of level 20 characters designed to kill the 7 toughest monsters in the bestiary single-handedly. I'd recommend you to skip through most of the first page, the proper builds start somewhere around the bottom of the first page, before then it's mostly complaints about the OPs build.

In general, I'd say you want at least one save-or-suck specialist who specializes in insane DCs and incredible initiative and a couple of melee or ranged specialists with unhittable AC and saves and insane damage. A perception specialist might be worthwhile as well.

Agree with Soup. The synthesist I have in there should more or less be able to solo the entire thing. For bonus points pick up a scroll of Spellbane and cast it on yourself to make yourself immune to AMF.

-Cross

[DrDew]

Just make every party member a wizard with the Time Stop spell. A group of level 20 wizards ought to be able to handle pretty much anything. Against anything that's highly resistant to magic there are summoning spells. If healing is needed, there are magic items for that.

[Artanthos]

DrDew wrote:

Just make every party member a wizard with the Time Stop spell. A group of level 20 wizards ought to be able to handle pretty much anything. Against anything that's highly resistant to magic there are summoning spells. If healing is needed, there are magic items for that.

Unless it can radiate an anti-magic field.

There is also

Ulthor the Cursed:

Ulthor the Cursed
Male Half Elf Synthesist/Paladin/Oracle 17/2/1
Lawful Good Medium Humanoid
Height: 5'3" / 6'3"; Weight: 125 / 220 Age: 125
Init: +6; Senses: Perception +37
Deity Nethys
Favored Classes Summoner, Paladin

DEFENSE
AC 68 Touch 27, Flat Footed 55 (+29 natural, +4 shield, +12 Cha, +1 dodge, +8 AC, +5 deflection, +1 insight, -2 size )

HP 389 / 253 (106+3+280) / (71+182)
base(10 + 18*5 + 6)+favored(3)+con(280)
temp(13*5.5)+con(182)
Fort +45 (8 +14 con + 12 cha +5 enh +4 circ)
Ref +38 (5 +12 cha +12 cha +5 enh +4 circ)
Will +43 (15 +7 wis +12 cha +5 enh +4 circ)

Quadraped: +4 CMD vs trip

OFFENSE
Spd 40 ft.
------------------------------------
Baseline
------------------------------------
. . Claw (x4) +38 (2d6+25/20/x2/10')
. . Bite +38 (2d6+25/20/x2/10')
. . Sting +38 (1d8+25/20/x2/10')
. . Bardiche +38 (3d8+35/19-20/x2/20')
------------------------------------
Power Attack + Arcane Strike
------------------------------------
. . Claw (x4) +34 (2d6+38/20/x2/10')
. . Bite +34 (2d6+28/20/x2/10')
. . Sting +34 (1d8+38/20/x2/10')
. . Bardiche +34 (3d8+52/19-20/x2/20')

FUSED STATISTICS

Str 50, Dex 17, Con38, Int 16, Wis 25, Cha 34
BAB +15; CMB +35; CMD 53

UNFUSED STATISTICS

Str 20, Dex 10, Con 24, Int 16, Wis 25, Cha 34
BAB +14; CMB 19; CMD 29

ABILITIES
. fused eidolon
. improved evasion
. greater shielded meld
. maker's jump
. darkvision
. devotion
. Smite Evil
. Divine Grace
. Lay on Hands
. sidestep secret
. curse: deaf
. . all spells silent
. . +3 perception
. . no initiative penalty

EVOLUTIONS

. legs x2
. bite
. improved natural armor x4
. arms
. claws
. pounce
. improved damage
. tail
. sting
. tremorsense
. huge
. burrow

FEATS

. Arcane Strike(1)
. Skill Focus: Perception(HE)
. Dodge (3)
. Power Attack(5)
. Blind Fight(7)
. Improved Natural Attack(9)
. Multiattack (9)
. Mobility(11)
. Spring Attack(13)
. Improved Blind Fight(15)
. Combat Reflexes (17)
. Greater Blind Fight(19)

TRAITS

. Magical Knack
. Reactionary

SKILLS

. Acrobatics(20) +25
. Spellcraft(20) +26
. Perception(20) +37
. Sense Motive(2) +11
. Stealth(10)+13
. Fly(10)+16
. UMD(20)+35

LANGUAGES

Common, Elven, Dwarf, Orc

 

COMBAT GEAR

. Bracers of Armor +8 (64,000)
. Ring of Protection +5 (50,000)
. Cloak of Resistance +5 (25,000)
. Amulet of Might Fists +5 (125,000)
. Belt of Physical Might: Str/Con +6 (90,000)
. Headband of Mental Prowess: Wis/Cha +6 (90,000)
. Ioun Stones (all embedded)
. . dusty rose prism: +1 AC (5000)
. . cracked dusty rose: +1 init (500)
. . lavender & green: absorb spells <= 8 (40,000)
. . iridescent: no air 18,000
. . nacreous gray sphere: protect vs aging (10,000)
. . orange prism: +1 CL (10,000)
. Tome of Leadership +4 (110,000)
. Manuel of Bodily Health +4 (110,000)
. Manuel of Gainful Exercise +4 (110,000)
. Demon Senses: +8 racial perception (10,000)
. Demon Talon x2 (20,000)
. Huge Admantine Bardice +5 (53,013)
. Scrolls
. . Contingency x4 (6,600)
. . Summon Eidolon x4 (800)
. . Mage's Disjunction x4 (15,300)
. . Freedom of Movement x2 (1,400)
. . Foresight x2 (7,250)
. . Greater Heroism x4 (5,000)
. . Mind Blank x4 (12,000)
. . See Through Stone x4 (2,800)
. . Transmorgify x2 (1,400)
. . Divine Power x2 (1,400)
. . Solid Fog x4 (1,400)
. Mithral Dagger x4 (1,000)
. Wand of True Strike
. . . total = 999,613

OTHER GEAR

spell component pouch x3, Scroll Case, Vial of Quicksilver x2

 

SUMMONER SPELLS

Cantrips (DC 22)
. Acid Splash
. Detect Magic
. Guidance
. Open/Close
. Mending
. Read Magic
1st Level (DC 23) 8/day
. Enlarge Person
. Expeditious Retreat
. Grease
. Corrisive Touch
. Protection vs. Law
. Restore Eidolon, lesser
2nd Level (DC 24) 8/day (6)
. Barkskin
. Blur
. Glitterdust
. Haste
. Summon Eidolon
. Wind Wall
3rd Level (DC 25) 8/day (7)
. Black Tentacles
. Dimension Door
. Displacement
. Evolution Surge
. Fly
. Greater Invisibility
4th Level (DC 26) 8/day (6)
. Acid Pit
. Evolution Surge, Greater
. Purified Calling
. Hold Monster
. Virtriolic Mist
5th Level (DC 27) 6/day
. Ethereal jaunt
. Rejuvinate Eidolon, Greater
. True Seeing
. Wreath of Blades
6th Level (DC 28) 4/day
. Dominate Monster
. Protection from Spells
. Walk Through Space

ORACLE SPELLS

Orisons (DC 22)
. Create Water
. Mending
. Stabalize
. Virtue
1st Level (DC 23) 7/day
. Moment of Greatness
. Obscuring Mist

As written he won't work for your scenario, but he's useful for ideas.

[Lab_Rat]

If the goal is survival with a side of evil ass kicking, then go Paladin. Nothing lives through hell like a Paladin.

Grab Oath of Vengence, be a Tiefling (Favored class bonus into LoH), have a high Charisma that you bump (Str will be a secondary stat). Feats to grab: Fey Foundling, Extra Lay on hands, the mercy line of feats that ends with you getting raise dead for 10 LoH.
At 20th level you will be doing 11d6+31 (Average = 70) hp of healing as a swift action. You can also substitute 2 of your many many LOH for a personal smite evil or 4 LOH for a communal smite evil.

Go forth a piss off your GM by being the cockroach of the party.

[Shfish]

Out of curiosity...in the transition to PF, Polymorph any Object seems to have lost the HD req for changing...just get you an ally and poly them into the Terasque...you win.

[Turin the Mad]

Shfish wrote:

Out of curiosity...in the transition to PF, Polymorph any Object seems to have lost the HD req for changing...just get you an ally and poly them into the Terasque...you win.

I'm pretty sure there is a "no unique creatures" clause you are overlooking. ;)