Ran into some fights in a
So how do you fight incorporeal monsters? It seems to me if you did not know about them you would not buy ghost touch weapons which is the best way to fight them? Advice, ideas, and thoughts welcome.
Also one last thing, what is incorporeal special quality? When I looked up incorporeal subtype it says, "In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality." No idea what that is and can't seem to find it.
Thanks,
+J
If you ran into them without any sort of magic you were really behind from the start. I don't expect my players to ever pick up ghost touched weapons myself. Ghost rager barbarians can turn them into pudding though.
Also, some of the creatures with incorporeal are devastated by sunlight. If you can somehow manage to drop some sort of daylight on them they can be hurt pretty badly.
Magic missile, ghost touch weapons.
Wraiths in general are pretty nasty, and incorporeal can be a real pain. But don't forget that if you have magical weapons, they can do half damage to the creatures. Most of the incorporeal creatures that I've used as a DM in another AP seem to have a bit fewer HP than normal for CR to adjust for this.
Another thing I might recommend for your group (if you think you might run into more) is that the bard look into the Ghostbane Dirge spell from the APG. The bard in my current campaign took it, and it's helped the party a LOT when fighting the occasional ghost or shade.
if the alchemist has infusion to give other people the shield spell, that plus mage armor would add 8 AC versus their touch attacks. (wand of mage armor isnt too expensive and useful since it is 1 hour per charge)
also if you are high enough level bard (it's a 2nd level spell) there is ghostbane dirge
Holy water is cheap and is also useful against corporeal undead/evil outsiders as well. The alchemist even gets his splash weapon bonus damage. I always carry a few vials just in case.
Just hack away with magical weapons until they are destroyed.
Don't forget: an alchemist gets to add his Int bonus to damage when attacking with holy water. That's one thing we found useful in our Carrion Crown game.
Also magic still hits for half damage, so the bard could blast with something like Ear Piercing Scream.Ear Piercing Scream does precisely nothing to undead.
it will do half damage to incorporeal, and full damage to any other undead, just like any other evocation spell. that is a bit more than nothing.
Oil of bless weapon is only 50 gp. Good for all kinds of things.
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I am a big fan of a ghost touch net just to shut down any incorporeal anything you run it to... no strength score really stinks when you are stuck in a net
Thanks for all the great ideas guys. The problem was they killed a party member because we could not do enough damage fast enough. I like the ghost touch net idea a lot, along with wands of mage armor and shield. Not so sure about the holy water (how much damage does it do?). Also I wondered about strenght damage on your attacks, I know they take 50% damage but is that just 50% weapon then add your full strength or do you add in all your damage mods, +3magic weapon, +strength, etc. then half the damage?
Hopefully we do not run into any more incorporeal monsters.
Thanks,
+J
Or be a ghost rager barbarian, and do full damage with a stick off the ground. :)
Also when poured I don't think holy water acts as a splash weapon and therefore alchemists would not add their Intelligence modifier to damage. Holy water versus corporeal undead acts as a splash weapon.
Hm. My reading is that it works as a splash weapon against all undead and that direct hits against incorporeal undead are only possible by pouring it. But I can certainly see how it might read the other way.
Let your sorcerer have the cantrip disrupt undead.
It does exactly nothing versus all others, but sinde its positive energy you can hit all undead for 1d6 all day long.
The alchemist could just throw the holy water at the ground doing only splash damage instead of pouring it.
But this will not be a good option at higher levels any more. But by then you should have anti undead weapons/spells.
Edit: Typo
A party consisting of a ranger, bard and alchemist is going to have trouble against this kind of thing. Adventure paths normally expect at least four PCs, and you have no primary caster.
it will do half damage to incorporeal, and full damage to any other undead, just like any other evocation spell. that is a bit more than nothing.Also magic still hits for half damage, so the bard could blast with something like Ear Piercing Scream.Ear Piercing Scream does precisely nothing to undead.
Fall of Camelot is right on this one.
Ear-Piercing Scream requires a Fortitude Save, and can only target creatures.
Undead are immune to any effect that requires a fortitude save unless it can also target objects or is harmless.
There is always positive energy... cure light wounds wand for example. Not a great option, but no UMD required.
I think oil of magic weapon is probably the best option.
I'm playing in an alchemist, rogue, ranger party, and some things are going to be really tough for that kind of party.
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Arcane Strike feat for the bard. It's good from level 1 on up.
Too bad weapon blanches are only good for one hit and take one full round over an open fire to use. I feel like those could've been done better. Usable with arrows though, I had an a zen archer in a group who used that to bypass several types of DR at once.
One last question on this topic... or so I hope.
If I can use a cure critical wand (use magic device/on my spell list) can I use it to attack undead and incorporeal monsters? If so does it do full damage (4d8 per charge, don't think you get to add the +1 per caster level but not sure) or just half because I am not a divine caster?
+1 per caster level OF THE WAND. So your typical cure light wounds wand would be 1d8+1, cure moderate would be 2d8+3, cure serious 3d8+5.
You can UMD cure spells and use them to attack, just like anyone who can cast them. The type of caster you are wouldn't change the damage. A wand is usually made at the caster level its first learned, in this case 7 so 4d8+7.
it will do half damage to incorporeal, and full damage to any other undead, just like any other evocation spell. that is a bit more than nothing.Also magic still hits for half damage, so the bard could blast with something like Ear Piercing Scream.Ear Piercing Scream does precisely nothing to undead.Fall of Camelot is right on this one.
Ear-Piercing Scream requires a Fortitude Save, and can only target creatures.
Undead are immune to any effect that requires a fortitude save unless it can also target objects or is harmless.
oops, my bad. i didn't see the save
... If I can use a cure critical wand (use magic device/on my spell list) can I use it to attack undead and incorporeal monsters? If so does it do full damage (4d8 per charge, don't think you get to add the +1 per caster level but not sure) or just half because I am not a divine caster?
Cure critical from a normal wand would be 4d8+7. Because the minimum caster level to cast cure critical is 7th level and wands are normally made at minimum caster level. The undead have a will save for half damage. The will save DC = 16 (10 + spells level + minimum stat to cast the spell).
There is some disagreement on whether incorporeal undead take full or half damage from cure spells. Almost everyone that I have met or read about says it is positive energy and does full damage (save to only take half). A very small number of people say that only channeled positive energy is full so the cure spells are half (save to only take a fourth). Your group/GM must decide for your game.
NOTE: It is possible to make a wand at above the minimum caster level. So a high level caster could make a wand of cure critical at 14th caster level. The it would heal 4d8+14. But that is rarely done because it would cost twice as much for only 7 points mor of healing. So normally all you will buy or find are always at minimum caster level.
Magic Missile should do full damage correct?
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Magic Missile should do full damage correct?
Incorporeal: Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.
Magic missile has the [force] descriptor and states doing force damage. Incorporeal creatures takes full damage from magic missile unless they got stuff to defend against it.
I've always been cautious to rely on ghostbane dirge (a will save negates) against incorporeal. Anyone have positive experiences with it during gameplay?
Magic Missile should do full damage correct?Incorporeal: Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.
Magic missile has the [force] descriptor and states doing force damage. Incorporeal creatures takes full damage from magic missile unless they got stuff to defend against it.
This is good to know, I am fighting a greater shadow in a game right now.
This is good to know, I am fighting a greater shadow in a game right now.Magic Missile should do full damage correct?Incorporeal: Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.
Magic missile has the [force] descriptor and states doing force damage. Incorporeal creatures takes full damage from magic missile unless they got stuff to defend against it.
If you got it prepped, might wanna cast mage armor and/or shield spells. Incorporeal touch attacks don't ignore force effect armor bonuses to AC.
He is an 8th level wizard with his moon being in high sanction, so his spells are at 10th level. He cast mage armor at the beginning of every day.
I think that the guy from Archive was asking for help or something to help keep things updated.
Magic Missile should do full damage correct?Incorporeal: Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects.
Magic missile has the [force] descriptor and states doing force damage. Incorporeal creatures takes full damage from magic missile unless they got stuff to defend against it.
So, positive energy does half damage...?
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There seems to be a lot of confusion about incorporeals and positive energy. It seems to depend on how the positive energy is delivered. Channel Energy is a supernatural ability, so it seems as if an incorporeal should take half damage from that, but I have never seen anyone play that way.
EDIT: The incorporeal description specifies that incorporeal creatures take full damage from channeled energy. Unfortunately, the paladin's lay on hands ability and the CLW spell do only half damage.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about incorporeals and positive energy. It seems to depend on how the positive energy is delivered. Channel Energy is a supernatural ability, so it seems as if an incorporeal should take half damage from that, but I have never seen anyone play that way.
EDIT: The incorporeal description specifies that incorporeal creatures take full damage from channeled energy. Unfortunately, the paladin's lay on hands ability and the CLW spell do only half damage.
Thanks for spotting that.