I'm always a fan of Barbarian/Druid.
Beast Totem combined with wild Shape. ah the joys of 5 natural attacks with utterly enormous strength, great con, some DR, natural armor and spell casting power. Oh and pounce. can't forget pounce.
Nothing like a 30 foot tall hunk of stone leaping out of the ground and tearing an enemy apart with claws and teeth.
How do you get 5 Natural Attack?
BarbarianX//Ninja(scout)4/Alchemist(vivisectionist,ragechemist)X-4
RageMutagenSneakAttackPounce, anyone? Also, loads of skills and some extracts. For extra awesome use TitanSlayer archetype, the Halfgiant race from Psionics and TWF feats, so you can dualwield Large greatwords, like a baws.
If you're allowed to take PrCs that mix two classe like Mystic Theurge or Eldritch Knight, you can go full cheese. Start with wizard 3 in one side and Psion 3 on the other then 10 levels of cerebremancer and cleric, top it off with 7 levels of psion and mystic theurge. Full Arcane casting, full maniffesting, divine casting at level -3. All of the spells? All of the spells. You can also shift the formula to get full divine and psionics - 3, but I like he first version better, since clerics get all their spells known at once at 17th level but the psion would only get 1 power known.
Bite, Claw, Claw, Slam, Slam?
That's if you're counting each attack as a separate NA.
Otherwise all I can think of is Bite, Claw, Slam, Gore which is still only 4.
But I don't think you can get a Gore and a Bite as a Barbarian since they're from different Totems.
We have a Barbarian/Fighter in our game. He tears things up. And down. And all around.
Will saves make him their b@+%* though. It's pretty funny how often he's been mindf#@#ed TBH.
@Mortuum: Can't the Urban Barbarian cast while raging?
Why hasn't he grabbed the Superstition rage power and Iron Will? He has the feats to afford them.
As tempting as it is to super-specialize when gestalting, it really begs for shoring up weaknesses a bit, too.
Superstition he hasn't snagged because he'd still like to get buffed by our Bard/Summoner. Iron Will he hasn't because iunno. He's not particularly good at building characters and he never lets me see his sheet until he's picked everything and is set on it.
Also, I also enjoy my GMPC, the Alchemist (Grenadier)/Cleric of Pharasma. Little stat synergy, sure, but it's really fun being the guy who tosses a bomb at everything in sight and if he misses (and deal splash damage to allies) he can just say 'Hey come over here, you look a bit scorched. *Channel*".
He's essentially a Healbot/Carpet Bomber Gestalt.
he's part fighter he will be awesome before raging, just wait get buffed and then start gaging. a fighter/barbarian has no excuse to have bad will saves, with all those feats (iron will, improved iron will, (dual minded if half elf) and the superstition power.
This thread was the last thing I read before driving home, so I've pretty much spent 45 minutes thinking about this. My conclusion is:
Druid on one side, and Monk/Fighter on the other. Everytime the 3/4 BAB would add a 0, take a level of Fighter. Otherwise, stick with Monk.
It's the 3.5 Druid focused and reborn. You're a full casting class pouncing shapeshifted into battle with a full BAB, awesome unarmed skills, and your tiger companion at your side. Plus, you have summons to fall back on at any time, 3 good save rolls, decent to good HP, and decent to good AC.
Plus, if you can swing an Empyreal Sorcerer/Zen Archer Monk teammate, you'll be jumping into battle hasted with Great AC and a full round archery barrage as fire support.
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I'm always a fan of Barbarian/Druid.
Beast Totem combined with wild Shape. ah the joys of 5 natural attacks with utterly enormous strength, great con, some DR, natural armor and spell casting power. Oh and pounce. can't forget pounce.
Nothing like a 30 foot tall hunk of stone leaping out of the ground and tearing an enemy apart with claws and teeth.
Barbarian//Druid/Dinosaur Cultist, with the dragon totem rage powers.
Turn into a gargantuan theropod. Activate rage.
AM DRAGON
This thread was the last thing I read before driving home, so I've pretty much spent 45 minutes thinking about this. My conclusion is:
Druid on one side, and Monk/Fighter on the other. Everytime the 3/4 BAB would add a 0, take a level of Fighter. Otherwise, stick with Monk.
That is not how BAB works. When you get the fighter level you'll get +1 BAB but when you go back to monk you'll get the +0 BAB, you don't get to skip it.
Mercenario- no the best use of that is with sap master, dual weilding bright energy saps, and the dazzle/enforcer/shatter defenses build.
your doing over 900 pts of non-leathal per round
I'd pretty much say Alchemist Rogue is the absolute most gesalt build.
Mebbe, but I'm not sure you have enough feats for all of that without going full one trick pony. Also, I don't care for nonlethal. Flavor reasons, mostly.
Alchemist rogue is the most...? What? The most what? Don't leave me curious.I think you mean worst, and it probably is. It can be a good multiclass or dip, like I used, but as the two sides of a gestalt it's pretty bad.
This thread was the last thing I read before driving home, so I've pretty much spent 45 minutes thinking about this. My conclusion is:
Druid on one side, and Monk/Fighter on the other. Everytime the 3/4 BAB would add a 0, take a level of Fighter. Otherwise, stick with Monk.
That is not how BAB works. When you get the fighter level you'll get +1 BAB but when you go back to monk you'll get the +0 BAB, you don't get to skip it.
For gestalt you take whichever class gives you the best BAB; if he takes Fighter at levels where the Druid doesn't get a BAB increase like 0 or 5 he can get it anyway from the fighter and then go Monk for the levels where the Druid would naturally get a BAB bonus. The Monk's BAB progression wouldn't matter and he could still have a full BAB.
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Did someone already say ranger/wizard? Full BAB, all good saves, lots of skills and skill points, solid combat, an animal companion, some divine spells, and amazing cosmic powers.
For gestalt you take whichever class gives you the best BAB; if he takes Fighter at levels where the Druid doesn't get a BAB increase like 0 or 5 he can get it anyway from the fighter and then go Monk for the levels where the Druid would naturally get a BAB bonus. The Monk's BAB progression wouldn't matter and he could still have a full BAB.This thread was the last thing I read before driving home, so I've pretty much spent 45 minutes thinking about this. My conclusion is:
Druid on one side, and Monk/Fighter on the other. Everytime the 3/4 BAB would add a 0, take a level of Fighter. Otherwise, stick with Monk.
That is not how BAB works. When you get the fighter level you'll get +1 BAB but when you go back to monk you'll get the +0 BAB, you don't get to skip it.
chaoseffect is right.
Alchemist/Rogue is capable to handle nearly everything.
For gestalt you take whichever class gives you the best BAB; if he takes Fighter at levels where the Druid doesn't get a BAB increase like 0 or 5 he can get it anyway from the fighter and then go Monk for the levels where the Druid would naturally get a BAB bonus. The Monk's BAB progression wouldn't matter and he could still have a full BAB.This thread was the last thing I read before driving home, so I've pretty much spent 45 minutes thinking about this. My conclusion is:
Druid on one side, and Monk/Fighter on the other. Everytime the 3/4 BAB would add a 0, take a level of Fighter. Otherwise, stick with Monk.
That is not how BAB works. When you get the fighter level you'll get +1 BAB but when you go back to monk you'll get the +0 BAB, you don't get to skip it.
No. You get the better progression between the two classes. One is the druid, the other the monk with fighter dip. You don't get to do some weird sincopation, where you get a bab from the druid this level and one from the monk on the next. Might be a common houserule, but don't confuse it wth RAW or RAI.
At 20 level druid would give BAB +15, Fighter/Monk would give a BAB of 16 or 17 depending on how many fighter levels you took. Better then the druid and it would go to twenty on a flurry, but not full bab.
Hrm...I would say the best would be dependent on Alignment. If your GM allowed an Evil Gestalt, go Sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline)/Anti-Paladin (Knight of the Sepulcher). Laugh when you hit level 20.
As a counterpoint, you could go with Ranger/Inquisitor. All favored Saves, Full BAB, and the deliciousness of Ranger and Inquisitor Spells and abilities. Use the Ranger Bonus feats for Archery and normal feats for two-handed weapons and you would have a true switch hitter, equally adept at Range and Melee.
Oh, did I mention the Ranger/Inquisitor gestalt gives you Evasion and Stalwart? Yeah, saving throws make you giggle.
@VM mercenario: It depends on the Interpretation. All the examples are setup expecting Single Classing on both sides. Some would say you go based on the increases not the actual B.A.B. Numbers others are the opposite.
Paladin/ Ninja... The penultimate tank/ skill monkey/ unkillable sob of righteous sneaky doom! Go shadow dancer if you want pure ridiculousness.
Vanish, then smite with sneak attack, then clean chunks of the BBEG out of your chain mail.
What if you encounter a BFB not a BBEG?
first thought was paladin/oracle--lots of casting goodness, lots of immunities, incredibly SAD, especially with stuff like sidestep secret and noble scion(scion of war), awesome physical damage output when pressed, great self/teamhealing
only drawback that really comes to mind is that you'd have to be really careful with your choices of feats. falling isn't too much of an issue since antipaladin is a thing.
zen archer/(conversion/infiltrator)inquisitor would be pretty terrifying too with its huge focus on wis and amazing ranged combat.
Then you can still get your sneak attack off while being an unparalleled tank.
True. But most of the BFB's are creatures that can't be gotten with Vanish.
Dex. Magus/rogue
Then pull out you ninja talent flanking buddy... If all else fails, you have the tanking ability to win a battle of attrition while you (admittedly less) awesome gestalt buddies take care of your light work.
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Sorcerer/Oracle 4 then go Paladin/Mystic Theurge. Now that's SAD. Or better yet go Antipaladin and then become a lich or other higher form of undead.
Sorcerer/Oracle 4 then go Paladin/Mystic Theurge. Now that's SAD. Or better yet go Antipaladin and then become a lich or other higher form of undead.
if youre aiming for the cha to hp instead of con for an antipaladin, take a one-level dip in agent of the grave if your DM wont let you become a lich... in a gestalt game
Sorcerer/Oracle 4 then go Paladin/Mystic Theurge. Now that's SAD. Or better yet go Antipaladin and then become a lich or other higher form of undead.
Excellent...
I can't belive noone has mentioned the ole grammaton cleric aka gunslinger/monk. I've used it with downright nasty results. the stacking bonus' to ac, wis to ac, built in backup weapon in case of destroyed firearm, and so much grit and ki it hurt.
edit: and all you need is dex and wis
Oh that's NASTY indeed.Sorcerer/Oracle 4 then go Paladin/Mystic Theurge. Now that's SAD. Or better yet go Antipaladin and then become a lich or other higher form of undead.Excellent...
Have the sorcerer be draconic bloodline and be paladin/dragon disciple after the MT levels run out.
I wonder if some of the people posting Barbarian//caster builds realize the whole no casting while raging thing. It works fine w/ Scarred Witch Doctor since hexes still function, but some of the others...
As someone said, Ranger//Wiz is surprisngly good for the saves, BAB, HD, skills, and spell selection you end up with.
Paladin // Sorc has good cha-synergy, full BAB, d10 HD, 2 good saves and cha to all of them, just falls a bit short on skills...
Beastmorph Viv. Alchemist // (Invulnerable Rager?) Barbarian would be devastating in melee.
Master Summoner // Bard to provide your own army to buff.
(pick your archetype) Fighter // Dawnflower Dervish Bard has all good saves, full BAB, d10 HD, high skills, casting, and can self-buff quite well and rely on dex for most combat rolls.
Wizard // Mindchemist Viv. Alchemist is basically an uber Arcane Trickster w/o having to wait for level 7.
Lore Warden Fighter // Synth Summoner would have insanely high CMB and could grab size, extra reach, and special attacks to chain off normal hits for tripping, pulling, pushing, and/or grabbing.
The 'best' depends on the role you would like to fill. In this thread i see a lot of caster or melee builds that are solid. But support classes can be quite powerfull as gestalt. Sometimes this are the more solid builds in big party setups:
Healer
______
Race: Tiefling(Demon-Spawn)
Classes: Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) + Oracle (Life)
Importent Feat: Fey Foundling
This build can without support heal even 4+ partys without wasting much resources. Life Link to transfer the huge amount of healing form lay on hands (Fav Class Bonus + Fey Foundling = LoH dice + 2x char level) to his allies. The Fey Foundling feat works with abilties from both classes (Channel + LoH).
Support (Buffer)
_________________
Classes: Bard(Arcane Duelist) X + Alchemist X/Pladin X
Important Feats: Flagbearer
Important Discoveries: Vestigial Arm (Ex)
Important Item: Banner of the Ancient Kings
I like bard buffer with Flagbearer + Banner of the Ancient Kings but without the gestalt part the character can only fill the pure buffer role. The Alchemist part will give the character extra arms to hold the flag and free his normal arms to be a melee/archer/whatever secondary damage dealer itself. At 7th level this bard can activate his Bardic Performance as a move action to give every party member +5 to Hit/+5 Damage and cast hast in the first round of combat. In the secound round he might grap his bow (the extra arms hold the flag) and do a smite full attack hasted and with an extra +5/+5.
Breiti
I have been looking into it, and I have really wanted to make a ranger/barbarian switch hitter. Obviously the ranger would take the archery combat style, but the barbarian choices would be focused on natural attacks and beast totem. Since you would not need to draw any weapon, it would be relatively simple to switch from archery to melee, and rangers have spells that would help facilitate the use of natural attacks.
While the claws from lesser beast totem would be a bit hard to rely on at first due to rather limited rage rounds, archery would soften targets up enough to make it a relatively simple process. Picking a race with a bite attack (tiefling?) would allow you to stay competitive with little cost or feats well into mid levels. Getting a 4th natural attack through a magical item would carry you through to end game.
Having an animal companion as a flank buddy just makes it even better. Another thread on animal companions going on right now makes me want to try just a plain old wolf since it seems like it would take less resources to outfit (a magical bow and amulet of mighty fists would strain anyone's wallet already, so just using your own long duration buff spells is preferable) and tripping is always nice.
Ok I have done some Math and it seems the DruidX:Fighter1/MonkX might only end up with a B.A.B. 19.
Only if you look at it as a Full Progression. But you don't. It is Level By Level.
A Druid1:Fighter1 will Have B.A.B. 1 thanks to Fighter. A Druid2:Fighter1/Monk1 would have the B.A.B. 1 from Fighter and B.A.B. 1 from the Druid.
Basically it is looked at as:
1: Druid1:Fighter1
2: Druid2:Monk1
Each combo is a separate "Class" with anything overlapping progressing. So since Druid:Fighter & Druid:Monk both have Druid the Druid Abilities progress but not the Fighter or Monk.
Fort & Will would be full Good Saves while the Reflex Save would be down to that of a 19 Level Monk.
Or would you rather it be re-figured Each Level?
Your Sorcerer:Fighter/Wizard would end up being B.A.B. 11.
There is a reason why Gestalt Builds are odd to deal with.
A Cleric:Monk is one of the most effective Support units in the Game. And fairly S.A.D. Only needing DEX & WIS if you go Sarenrae and going Guided Hand.
A good example of the point I made about in the spoiler is the Templar Class from a CRPG. It would be a Gestalt of either a Fighter:Cleric(Crusader) or Paladin:Cleric(Crusader) based on which path you took. A F:C would be a Low Templar while the P:C would be a High Templar.
This is why I STRONGLY suggest if not demand that any DM using gestalt has BAB and base saves go off a "running tally" where you add up each side as you level and take the higher. The druid/fighter//monk isn't even the most ridiculous example of what happens if you don't do this.
Fighter 1 / Sorc 19 // Wiz 20 has full BAB if you only look at BAB for each level as its own individual thing!
I realize gestalt was not as thoroughly written as it could have been, but abuses (yes, abuses) like this I think are clearly against its intent. And it's a shame because I love gestalt, but people trot out ridiculous crap like this, which is so easy to avoid with proper rules interpretation / brief houserule, and people start screaming gestalt is insane and overpowered and the devil.
(In case you're wondering, skill points and hit points are fine being on a per level basis, it's only BAB and base saves that get stupid.)
I don't remember if it was mentioned, but a magus/wiz would be fun to play, even if it's not perfect. Cast a few "god" spells to get the fight going your way, then jump in with the frontliners for the mop-up with your spell strike, or toss a couple blasts if you don't want to get close.
You'd certainly be able to find something to do every round.
Could a Magus//Wiz use wizard spells with his magus class features? That could be really devastating... Most Magi have to wait till high levels and jump through hoops to get Calcific Touch on their spell lists and deliverable through their swords (which means the 1d4 dex damage per round....more if empowered... crits on a 15-20). Among other possibly very god wiz spells to channel through the keen rapier/scimitar.
If they take the arcana to do so - yes, they could. But if you're playing gestalt there are better combinations than Magus/Wiz...
And No they wouldn't have full B.A.B.
They would only have a +1 over the Sorcerers B.A.B.
Now a running Tally would be the easier way to track if it wasn't for the fact that how would you handle saves?
There are 3 Option with standard Unearthed Arcana Gestalt:
1) Running Tally. (What you are suggesting)
2) Increase Tracking. (What Chaoseffect is suggesting)
3) "Class" Method. (What I suggested)
I should note that I was wrong. The Druid20: Fighter1/Monk19 would be B.A.B. 16 using the Level by level set up.
My groups tend to choose 2 Classes at the start and that is it. Though they do get some perks from it.
So an "Einherjar" might be a Fighter/Magus Gestalt and get very little of a boost. Where as a Cleric/Wizard "Mystic Theurge" can use their spell slots as a total not separate but they also must choose one as their primary. So a Cleric/Wizard with a Arcane Focus must cast any spell that is on both lists as the Wizard Version.
A "Black Mage/Archmage" would be a Wizard/Sorcerer and would have a single total for their Spell Slots. They would prepare their spells but would also have a list of Spells they can cast Spontaneously if they have any open slots. Same with a "White Mage/High Priest" being a Cleric/Oracle.
A "Red/Blue Mage" would be a Magus/Inquisitor depending on the Focus they choose.
"Now a running Tally would be the easier way to track if it wasn't for the fact that how would you handle saves?"
As I said, BAB and base saves should both be running tally. You sum each side's BAB, fort, ref, and will base saves, and take the higher side for each, and switch if one side overtakes the other later on.
That is an easy way to handle it. Wasn't sure how you wanted the running Tally to work.
Fighter + whatever other full BAB class. Take your barb, cav, whatever, and give him a feat per level and all that training. You won't cover all 3 saves, but when you hit people, they'll feel it.
Fighter + whatever other full BAB class. Take your barb, cav, whatever, and give him a feat per level and all that training. You won't cover all 3 saves, but when you hit people, they'll feel it.
Fighter combines about the same with any melee combatist, not just full BAB characters. I feel it's even better with the 3/4 attack bonus chars like rogue, monk, inquisitor as they tend to have abilities that make up for the lower attack bonus. That means when they have the make up ability +5 BAB they get a bit extra power rather than just the extra damage from fighter trainings.
For example monk would get an extra attack on flurry of blows and +5 attack on top of that.
Fighter + whatever other full BAB class. Take your barb, cav, whatever, and give him a feat per level and all that training. You won't cover all 3 saves, but when you hit people, they'll feel it.
Fighter combines about the same with any melee combatist, not just full BAB characters. I feel it's even better with the 3/4 attack bonus chars like rogue, monk, inquisitor as they tend to have abilities that make up for the lower attack bonus. That means when they have the make up ability +5 BAB they get a bit extra power rather than just the extra damage from fighter trainings.
For example monk would get an extra attack on flurry of blows and +5 attack on top of that.
No argument here, but if you just want to be the meatshield, you can do it in spades.
Fighter/Barb only has one good save, but between feats and barb rage powers, you can fight like a freak, with d12 hp.
Can you flurry and rage at the same time? Because wow. :)