Okay, so here's what has happened. Its my first time playing pathfinder, and last week we met with the DM and rolled for stats for the upcoming campaign, and then hung out and played board games. Except I rolled a ridiculous 18 in Dexterity, Intelligence, and Wisdom. My other stats are 14 Strength, 10 Constitution, and 11 Charisma. I can't switch what I rolled for one stat to another, but I still have to pick a race and class.
The group has a ninja, psychic warrior, witch, bard, monk, and an NPC fighter (played by the DM). Also, its an evil or at least morally dubious campaign.
I'd like to help round out the group and fill a role the group needs, but I'm not sure what class might benefit with very high Dex, Int, and Wis. What would you guys play as with this roll?
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Monk that is heading in to duelist
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Second the vote for Inquisitor. You can go Weapon Finesse or Archery, as you prefer, but you'll definitely be the divine caster and the skill monkey. You'll also have absurd initiative.
With a ninja and a bard, your group will probably be all set for skills anyway, but inquisitors are FUN and your group needs a competent healer. Besides, with 18 Int you'll be a skill-user no matter what you play as. I recommend talking to the bard and ninja when you assign your skill points, so you know you've got everything covered and aren't overlapping too much.
What pray tell is a "psychic warrior"?
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Well, honestly, I'd probably roll again.
But if the GM convinced me to go ahead and play such a superhero, I'd play any dang thing I wanted. But probably one of the weakest classes just to compensate.
So probably rogue.
Nah... gotta go with fighter. Put one of those 18s in INT and build a skillmonkey fighter supreme.
The stereotypical Bladebound/Kensai Dervish Dancer, of course.
You've got your casting stat (Int), you've got high Dex, which'll do you for to-hit, damage, AND AC (Kensai adds some Int to AC), and you've got a solid Will save.
Ima go out and say bow-weilding Mystic Theurge here.
Monk would be cool, but we have a monk already and I really don't want to step on his toes. We also have a ninja, so maybe I shouldn't play an assassin. But Inquisitor sounds really neat-- I've never read anything on it, so I'll check them out.
Cleric of Sarenrae seems neat too, and I'm not all that familiar with clerics in pathfinder, but I think the good aligned god would make things really difficult. Really like alchemist!
The DM likes guns, and we're playing in a setting where advanced firearms are available if we wanted it as an option. Do you think a firearm wielding alchemist who focuses on touch-ac things like bombs and rifles in addition to his spellcasting-like abilities be good? Any way I could use the high wisdom?
I'm going to look into Inquisitors. I don't know much about them. What is a reincarnated druid?
Dwarven monk zen archer. You will start with dex as your to hit stat, 20 wis, and compensate for con with racial stat bonus. Your wisdom will be used for to hit at lvl 3, and when you get guided, also for damage. Your lvl 1 ac will be 19 naked. Your saves will be incredible...
Holy crap, reincarnated druid is a pretty awesome concept.
Kensai Magus/Master of Many Styles Monk. Only two levels of Monk really needed, then the rest Magus. Go for a race like Elf with a bonus to Dex and Int, to really make your damage and spell DC's shine, as well as your AC with each level of Magus. Add in Dervish Dance and you're golden.
Would a witch, bard, and alchemist be enough to cover the role of divine and arcane casters?
Kensai Magus/Master of Many Styles Monk. Only two levels of Monk really needed, then the rest Magus. Go for a race like Elf with a bonus to Dex and Int, to really make your damage and spell DC's shine, as well as your AC with each level of Magus. Add in Dervish Dance and you're golden.
I like this. A lot. I'm going to go look it up.
Would you start as a Magus or Monk for that?
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You don't get a big benefit for starting either way. If you want to start with magic and a weapon, go magus. If you want more defensive start with monk. Keep in mind what feats you want to take because your monk bonus feats may satisfy prerequisites that would allow you to take a particular feat for your level 1 feat (like requiring improved unarmed strike).
Good point. Magus would be a really cool option (I'm new to pathfinder, so its a new class and I like that) but I don't want to steal the show from the monk. I really like controller roles, where I can influence the battle a lot if I'm smart about it, and I like being able to buff and provide utility for the group.
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The worlds greatest commoner!
Ima go out and say bow-weilding Mystic Theurge here.I'd 2nd this. The Theurge isn't played much since it takes high levels to really make it shine, but also because nobody gets to start with 18's in Dex, Int, and Wis. Take a Devil Spawn Tiefling variant, +2 Con and Wis, -2 Cha.
You need to be able to cast 2nd level divine and arcane, fastest way is cleric 3/wizard 3, theurge the rest of the way.
Not only does your party lack full divine, it also lacks full arcane. At 10th level, you'll be effectively wizard 7/cleric 7 for casting = 4th level spells from each.
But before deciding/discarding the notion, think for a moment about the roleplay potential. Devil spawn Tiefling cleric of asmodeus cross with conjurer wizard specializing in summons and control?
Any way to get rid of the familiar if it doesn't get better with Mystic Theurge? Not sure how that would work... although just keeping a wimpy greensting scorpion on your shoulder forever for the +4 initiative and +2 to perception and sense motive would be fine.
I'd go with the Arcane Bond, just for the free masterwork item. Make it a ring or amulet or something.
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I would grab a d20, make a list of all the classes, and go for it. (EDIT: By which I mean, roll the die to determine which class to play. Possibly have "roll again twice" or "roll a prestige class and guide yourself to it" on the chart.)
With those stats there is literally no class I couldn't do at least moderately well at playing (given the right archetypes/race).
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If Guns are big in your campaign, a Gunslinger would be a great choice. They need DEX and they need WIS, and they benefit from INT because they want to put skill points into Craft: Alchemy and still have enough left over for Perception, Acrobatics, Sense Motive, and Sleight of Hand.
An Inquisitor who chooses the Black Powder inquisition would be a good choice too. They use DEX for shooting, AC, and initiative, WIS for spellcasting, initiative, and Knowledge checks, and INT for all those lovely skill points and the bonus to their Knowledge checks.
Also Inquisitors at level 5 can choose a creature, make a Knowledge check to identify it, and if they succeed they get +2 to hit and +2d6+2 to damage against it.
Alchemists are cool, but they just aren't good with guns. You'd use your INT for your spells and bombs, and your DEX for aiming your bombs, but you'd struggle to make a firearm work well and you'd have no real use for your Wisdom.
In answer to your question, a witch, bard, and either an alchemist or an inquisitor would cover your spellcasting fairly well.
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"Hey, DM, I know I rolled totally badass stats that require no powergaming to utilize, but can I play a cleric of this obscure god so that I can be a musket-wielding cleric?"
I'm not saying it's cheese, but it would probably go well on nachos.
(That said, a metal-forging artifice priest that shoots guns/cannons and such would be totally awesome, so I'd probably still allow it as a DM, though I might replace the god with a made-up god of siege warfare.)
Oh man.. flavor wise thats pretty awesome. I assumed that none of the gods would have firearms as a favored weapon, since they are more of a recent thing than a traditional thing.
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I'd definitely start with cleric. You can take a little while to decide how well that's working before trying the theurge. bbt's Forgemaster suggestion is worth checking out, since it gives you an int-based ability for a cha-based one (channel) and your cha isn't great.
(That said, a metal-forging artifice priest that shoots guns/cannons and such would be totally awesome, so I'd probably still allow it as a DM, though I might replace the god with a made-up god of siege warfare.)
Exactly, it's an awesome concept and it's not even all that powerful since guns take some investment to get good at, and 5 levels of gunslinger to get really good at.
Druid w/ Weapon Finesse
For a more experienced player, Samsaran Reincarnated Caster Druid - +2 Int, +2 Wis, -2 Con with those stats would be very funny, but probably not the best idea for a new player, lol.
Obviously you're going to want to go weapon finesse (and then probably dervish dance) if you're playing anything melee.
I think a weapon finesse, dervish dance cleric would be good. Again, Elf seems like the obvious race, but honestly, you probably shouldn't take the -2 to Con. Maybe consider going for a small race. Either Halfling for the +2 Dex or Gnome for the +2 Con would be acceptable. Both also give Charisma, which isn't super important to you, but is low and could use a bump. The -2 strength of small characters won't hurt you too much, being a dex based character.
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Not even "cheese". You really do not understand.
You will never come close to any Gunslinger, but at least be able to take part in some gunslinging when they are available.
The class is a buffer, and a crafter.
Not whatever mad mixed idea you have in your head.
Sorry, in my mind "cheese" is not quite equivalent to "powergaming cheese". Cheese (to me) is basically any time someone starts digging into obscure gods or rules in order to gain a mechanical advantage of some form, regardless of the resulting power level. If the end power level is not bad, I usually take steps to remove the cheesiness factor via custom content (like the god I mentioned).
I was by no means claiming that the gun somehow made the cleric overpowered.
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An another interesting option, is the Forgemaster Cleric.It trades Channel, for intelligence based abilities.
You will be able to craft the party an assortment magic items.
This is what I was going to recommend once I saw the stats:
• It's an interesting, versatile class.
• It doesn't get played often due to the odd stat requirements.
• Due to your odd stats, the class fits extraordinarily well.
For those reasons, I would suggest the Forgemaster over all the other suggestions in this thread. Any character with a half-decent DEX and WIS can be an Inquisitor or Gunslinger; any character with a good DEX and INT can be a Magus. Forgemaster stands out as something that is uniquely suited to the particular stats you've rolled.
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Not even "cheese". You really do not understand.
You will never come close to any Gunslinger, but at least be able to take part in some gunslinging when they are available.
The class is a buffer, and a crafter.
Not whatever mad mixed idea you have in your head.
Sorry, in my mind "cheese" is not quite equivalent to "powergaming cheese". Cheese (to me) is basically any time someone starts digging into obscure gods or rules in order to gain a mechanical advantage of some form, regardless of the resulting power level. If the end power level is not bad, I usually take steps to remove the cheesiness factor via custom content (like the god I mentioned).
I was by no means claiming that the gun somehow made the cleric overpowered.
Actually, the favored weapon is more of a disadvantage mechanically.
Like I said, you do not understand.
I'd make a sweeeeeet Duelist with those stats. Monk (Master of Many Styles/Monk of the Sacred Mountain) 3/Fighter (Brawler) 4/Duelist 10, in that order
Assuming Human, here's the feats (up to level 10)-
1: Dodge
Human: Crane Style
Monk 1: Crane Wing
Monk 2: Crane Riposte, Toughness [Bonus]
3: Weapon Finesse
Fighter 1: Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Fighter 2: Snake Style
5: Combat Reflexes
Fighter 4: Snake Sidewind
7: Mobility
9: Snake Fang
You'll have 3 stats going to AC (all your high ones!), have +2 AC from Dodge and the Iron Monk ability, can deflect one attack per round with Crane Style, take almost no penalty for fighting defensively, can use Sense Motive instead of AC with Snake Style, can hit opponents you deflect with Crane Riposte, and can hit opponents who miss you with Snake Fang (twice, if you spend an immediate action). If your GM is kind, they'll let you trade out Combat Reflexes at Duelist 4 (possibly for Weapon Specialization: UaS), when it becomes a class feature (since your Unarmed Strikes deal piercing damage, you always meet the pre-req for the class feature). Winsauce!
Alternately, you could play a Bladebound Kensai Magus, eschewing armor to use your INT to AC and having an awesome time with Spell Combat.
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Not even "cheese". You really do not understand.
You will never come close to any Gunslinger, but at least be able to take part in some gunslinging when they are available.
The class is a buffer, and a crafter.
Not whatever mad mixed idea you have in your head.
Sorry, in my mind "cheese" is not quite equivalent to "powergaming cheese". Cheese (to me) is basically any time someone starts digging into obscure gods or rules in order to gain a mechanical advantage of some form, regardless of the resulting power level. If the end power level is not bad, I usually take steps to remove the cheesiness factor via custom content (like the god I mentioned).
I was by no means claiming that the gun somehow made the cleric overpowered.
Actually, the favored weapon is more of a disadvantage mechanically.
Like I said, you do not understand.
What am I not understanding, exactly? If you're going to be captain "better than thou" at least explain your position. I explained mine, which can be summarized as follows: It seems cheesy because you're selecting an obscure god for no reason other than the weapon/domain combo happens to look cool, rather than anything have to do with what that god's real motivations, intentions, etc are. In fact, I can't even find a reference to what those might be.