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Which Archetypes fundamentally change the class, transforming the character from one role to another? For example, the Vivisectionist changes the Alchemist from blaster to melee. The Zen Archer changes the Monk from melee to ranged.
Which other Archetypes are out there? I have compiled this list, including the vanilla versions for comparison.
Alchemist: Vanilla/Bomber
Alchemist: Vivisectionist/Melee
Antipaladin: Vanilla
Barbarian: Vanilla
Bard: Vanilla
Bard: Archeologist
Bard: Dervish Dancer
Cavalier: Melee
Cavalier: Ranged
Cleric: Vanilla
Cleric: Healing Focus
Cleric: Undead Lord
Druid: Vanilla
Fighter: Melee
Fighter: Ranged
Gunslinger: Vanilla
Inquisitor: Vanilla
Monk: Vanilla
Monk: Zen Archer
Ninja: Vanilla
Oracle: Melee
Oracle: Life
Oracle: Bones/Juju
Paladin: Melee
Paladin: Ranged
Ranger: Ranged
Ranger: Melee
Ranger: Urban Ranged
Ranger: Urban Melee
Rogue: Vanilla
Samurai: Melee
Samurai: Ranged
Sorcerer: Vanilla
Summoner: Vanilla
Witch: Vanilla
Witch: Scarred Witch Doctor
Wizard: Vanilla
Thanks for your help! I will be using this information to create an automated google doc to help people round out their parties.
Myrmadarch Magus makes him an archer.
Skirnir Magus gives him a shield.
Synthesist Summoner makes him melee (usually).
Arcane Gun or Siege Mage Wizard makes them use radically different attack forms.
Divine Hunter or Holy Gun Paladin makes them ranged.
Urban Barbarian, Druid, Ranger (although the changes are more radically to fluff/flavor than mechanics).
I'm sure there are more...
I noticed that your list includes both archtypes and builds. For example, the Ranger: Ranged and Ranger: Melee are not archtypes, but style feats. Continuing that, I will include specific builds as well as archtypes.
Barbarian:
Urban Barbarian (from mindless melee -> tactical(optional) melee or ranged)
Cleric: (I'm not sure which type cleric you mean by "Vanilla," since clerics are fairly build dependant. I consider a "Vanilla" cleric a jack of all trades that can heal, buff, debuff, melee, summon, but doesnt specialize in any.)
Crusader(from jack-of-all trades -> melee)
Melee(general) (from jack-of-all trades -> melee)
Evangelist (from jack-of-all trades -> bard)
Paladin:
Divine Hunter (from melee -> ranged)
Divine Gun (from melee -> ranged w/ firearms)
Summoner:
Synthesist (from support caster + pet -> melee)
Lore Warden turns Fighters into skill and maneuver monkeys.
Archaeologist turns Bard into Rogue
Synthesist doesn't make you a front line fighter so much as it takes away a your front line fighter's spellcasting pet.
Master Summoner turns frontliner + support caster into swarm of frontliners + support caster + skillmonkey, which is a bit more of a change I think.
Spellslinger, Seige Mage and Arcane bomber all give up a significant amount of the Wizard's versatility by forbidding so many schools and giving up cantrips/arcane bond, and I think versatility is really what makes a Wizard what he is.
Feral Child (human druid archetype) completely gives up Wild Shape and with it a druid's melee ability. You can make a druid without melee of course, but they're still Wild Shaping into birds for protection.
Maneuver Master, Sensei, Sohei and Tetori all fundamentally change Monks from the normal stand-there-and-punch-him plan.
Archaeologist turns Bard into Rogue
This is what I was going to post. Turns a Bard from a party-buffer into a Rogue with Bard magic instead of sneak attack.
As mounts are a pretty integral part of the cavalier:
Huntmaster cavalier exchanges mount for dogs & birds.
Musketeer cavalier exchanges mount for gun.
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Just going to note, I think the base paladin can make a substantially better Ranged character than the Divine Hunter, so I don't know that I'd count those....
The Exarch archetype for Dwarven Inquisitors turns them from monster hunters into some kind of weird hell knight variant, and locks them into melee options thanks to the weapon abilities they get.
The Urban Barbarian changes the Barbarian build drastically enough that it can be very different (Raging to get more accurate with bows as an example).
The Sohei Monk Archetype turns your monk into a weapon-wielding expert rider, so that probably deserves at least honorable mention...
The Menhir Savant archetype for druids takes away all of their wilderness based abilities and replaces them weird spiritualist powers, potentially making it a very different class in flavor, if only marginally different in play...
That's about all I've got that hasn't been covered already.
Spellslinger (Wizard) turns the wizard into a blast-focused gun-wielder.
Seeker/sage makes the sorcerer into an arcane skill monkey
Master of Many Styles I think fundamentally changes the Monk from the nigh-stationary "Gatling puncher" into the stereotypical martial arts master, who has a bunch of tricks and punishes opponents for being too hasty to strike (Especially Crane, Panther, and Snake Styles).
Why are oracle of bones and life on the list?
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@Yora - Oracles are, by far, the class that I understand the least, so I would appreciate the help. They are full casters (cleric spells) with 3/4ths bab and a few gimmicks to make them interesting. From what I can tell, their main role in parties is general spellcasting - utilities & buffs, with some healing thrown in.
It seems to me that oracle of life gives them channeling, making them more healing centric. Oracle of bones and juju get some powers that allow them to have "animal companions."
But if anybody knows oracles better than I do, let me know what should and shouldn't be on the list!
(I suppose Oracle: Vanilla should be on there).
Oracle of Battle also gives easy access to full martial and heavy armor proficiency. And oracle of Flame is a pretty good fire blaster, which is normally hard for divine casters.
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Alright, the list has expanded somewhat. Unless anybody has any objections, this is what I am going to work with:
Alchemist: Vanilla/Bomber
Alchemist: Vivisectionist/Melee
Antipaladin: Vanilla/Melee/Tank
Antipaladin: Ranged
Barbarian: Vanilla/Melee/Tank
Barbarian: Urban
Barbarian: Ranged
Bard: Vanilla/Buffer/Generalist
Bard: Archeologist
Bard: Dervish Dancer
Cavalier: Melee
Cavalier: Ranged
Cleric: Vanilla/Generalist
Cleric: Healing Focus
Cleric: Undead Lord
Cleric: Evangelist
Druid: Vanilla/Generalist
Druid: Melee
Fighter: Melee
Fighter: Ranged
Gunslinger: Vanilla
Inquisitor: Vanilla/Generalist
Magus: Melee
Magus: Ranged/Myrmadarch
Monk: Vanilla
Monk: Zen Archer
Ninja: Vanilla
Oracle: Melee/Battle/Metal
Oracle: Life
Oracle: Bones/Juju
Oracle: Flame
Paladin: Melee
Paladin: Melee
Paladin: Ranged
Ranger: Ranged
Ranger: Melee
Ranger: Urban Ranged
Ranger: Urban Melee
Rogue: Vanilla
Samurai: Melee
Samurai: Ranged
Sorcerer: Vanilla
Summoner: Synthesist
Summoner: Vanilla
Witch: Vanilla
Witch: Scarred Witch Doctor
Wizard: Vanilla
Wizard: Spell Slinger
As mounts are a pretty integral part of the cavalier:
Huntmaster cavalier exchanges mount for dogs & birds.
Musketeer cavalier exchanges mount for gun.
where is the hunt master, which book?
The Gendarme, while keeping the Cavalier's mount, trades out most of his tactical acumen for being a pure battlefield terror.
The Martial artist changes many of the key features of the Monk, changing them from spiritual masters (and very technical fighters) to straight forward combat monsters.
Alright, the list has expanded somewhat. Unless anybody has any objections, this is what I am going to work with:
** spoiler omitted **
you have paladin melee listed twice
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where is the hunt master, which book?As mounts are a pretty integral part of the cavalier:
Huntmaster cavalier exchanges mount for dogs & birds.
Musketeer cavalier exchanges mount for gun.
I believe it is from the new book, Animal Archive.
You missed the Lore Warden archetype for Fighter, turning them into skill-based, combat maneuver experts.
A few things I have noticed:
Reach for a melee type, when they are built properly for it, can make a big difference. Especially if the campaign is humanoid-centric (like PFS) and the reach user is also spec'ed well for using combat maneuvers. (Trip and disarm can shut down a lot of encounters, and can even make spellcasters unhappy)
Remember that one of the big differences between Clerics & Wizards, and Sorcerers, Bards & Oracles is how flexible the first two are, where they can swap out spells as needed, as long as the party does some research when they can; while the other two have to choose their spell loadout much more carefully initially, because once they have their spells picked, that is it until they level up.
Some classifications you seem to be missing:
Healer
Battlefield Control
Blaster (usually falls under ranged)
Combat Maneuvers (essentially local area battlefield control)
Skill monkey
Diplomancer (More specialized skill monkey, but still...)
Trap Handler
Stealth combatant (either for sneak attack or other benefits)
Party Buffer
Enemy Debuffer
There can be overlap between classifications, of course. And the generalist can, frequently, emulate or stand-in for several of the specialists, although not necessarily as well.
You still missed the seeker sage sorcerer.
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@ Abraham - I've added it, but would you mind tell me a bit about how it fills a different role from the vanilla sorcerer?
@oddmage - on the Google doc, first you input what characters are already in your party on the left. This automatically fills in the middle section with what roles are being filled, such as melee, ranged, tank, blaster, trapfinder, etc... The section on the right then extrapolates which character would help fill in the gaps in the party.
If you want to see exactly what I think each character brings to a party, then make a party with just one of them. It will tell you what roles he fills, and thus what class best compliments him. If you disagree with any of this, feel free to let me know and I will adjust.
For now, I've made it such that anybody can edit the number of people in a party. Feel free to mess around. I've completed over half of the classes/archetypes, and should complete the rest by the end of the week.
Here it is: Rounding Out Your Party
Have Fun!
@ Abraham - I've added it, but would you mind tell me a bit about how it fills a different role from the vanilla sorcerer?
A vanilla sorcerer is charisma based and lacks critical skill monkey skills (perception primarily). Sage changes you into an intelligence based caster meaning you have more skill points (in addition to a bonus on spellcraft and knowledge(arcane) checks).
The seeker archetype gives you trapfinding (in all but name at least). These two things combined (more skill points and a bonus on perception checks and disable device checks) gives you a good start in being either a burglar/scout type or the normal face with more abilities.
If you go burglar/scout you'll be in a better place than a 'typical' rogue since you have the ability to actually cast spells to support your mundane scouting or get out fast (with either escape spells or hindering spells).
dot
Sohei; turns the monk into a Zen Archer
Cryptbreaker: turns the alchemist into a rogue
Sage Bloodline; Sorcerer becomes a skill monkey
Empyreal Bloodline: sorcerer becomes king of will saves
Sohei; turns the monk into a Zen Archer
Cryptbreaker: turns the alchemist into a rogue
Sage Bloodline; Sorcerer becomes a skill monkey
Empyreal Bloodline: sorcerer becomes king of will saves
Doesn't the zen archer turn the monk into a zen archer?
The Sohei adds armor and gives the monk a horse.
Sohei; turns the monk into a Zen Archer
Cryptbreaker: turns the alchemist into a rogue
Sage Bloodline; Sorcerer becomes a skill monkey
Empyreal Bloodline: sorcerer becomes king of will savesDoesn't the zen archer turn the monk into a zen archer?
The Sohei adds armor and gives the monk a horse.
or turns the monk into an archer. either one really.