Okay my sorc is like Reese Witherspoon on Legally Blonde, like pink fireballs and a lot of oops I did it agains.
So basically in and out of character I have a hard time determining what is evil. You could say she fireballs first asks questions later. Anyways here are a couple of examples I'm not pleased with:
Room full of deadly spiders, we kill them all but I thought (in and out of character) the moving cocoons still had spiders in them, so I nuked them. Turned out to be still living innocents, I felt bad and got scolded by the paladin. My character cared a little but not enough to hold a ceremony for them.
Next (this just happened last session) we walked through a temple full of Murlocks that were being possessed by evil brain things and seemed to come accross them often, the paladin says they are evil, so naturally when we open the door to 15 children and one adult female they started throwing rocks. Instead of thinking wait rocks, why? I fireballed the room and didnt realize until it was to late they were innocent. Oops I did it again and feel bad, but not really...
My int is 14 my cha is 24 wis is 12 alignment Chaotic/Good (or is it?)
I need advice on if me myself is just not smart enough to know the difference or should my PC know better... Halp!
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If your character were Good, she'd care about killing innocents. It's not even happening as collateral damage, it's just being trigger happy.
I don't really like the excuse of "I'm just playing my stats" but in this case your mental stats are fine. Int 14 is pretty dang smart among normal people. Wis 12 is still above average in perception/insight.
If you want to be Good, then even if you think they are possessed, you should be trying to find an alternative to massacring 15 children.
ask your GM if the 'target' appears hostile. For example...
A wild west pistoleer...are his arms crossed, or does he have a hand on his yet undrawn pistol?
Well they were throwing rocks at us (which I now realize would have done nothing to us) but it felt hostile at first, so I just reacted. I swear I thought the collateral damage was the chaotic part of her alignment but she really does feel bad if innocent people are hurt. She wont seek and destroy innocent people on purpose is what I'm saying.
I do agree there could have been better communication through the DM to give a hint they were not hostile, but hey they threw rocks. Thing is how many "accidents" does it take before an alignment change is in order?
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It's not CE, it's CN. "Fireball em all and let the gods sort em out" is a character type with a long and storied history in RPGs. But as the player of that type of character you have to manage your 'in character' decisions to fit the actual fun of the group sitting at the table with you. Otherwise you become a thing for them to work against, and that way lies so very much drama and bum-hurtedness.
Think about it like this. Pick any character from fiction that you like. Do they spend every page, pannel, second of screen time doing the exact thing they are known or stereotyped for? Pretty much Pikachu is the only one I can think of that reliably shoots lightning out his bum and says...unerringly..."pikachu." If that is what you are going for...groovy. But many people are going to become irritated by that.
Elle Woods is in interesting character because she's not an airhead, even though she talks and walks like one. She uses that to disarm people...a very canny use of her charms.
Your character can still be a think-later, act-now type of character of great renown and fame/infamy without literally fireballing every dungeon room before any characters (ie players) have a chance to play their characters. It's not a game of slap-jack or whack-a-mole. You don't get bonus points or special abilities for being the first one to jam their character concept into every.single.situation. You could do something like shoot a random lightning bolt at a bat on a cavern ceiling ONCE per game session and your character would be known as the loose canon. Blowing up rooms full of innocents and cooking things alive in bondage is something that comes around rarely. You want those moments to un-nerve the other characters and keep them guessing. NOT..."quick someone restrain Dingbat the Wizard Queen so that we can talk to the prisoners before they are on fire."
TLDR; It's all about feeling the gameroom, and learning when to stop acting "in character" to preserve the actual fun of the game everyone else is playing. Heck, I'm still trying to balance that one out after 25 years of rolling polyhedrals.
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I agree on chaotic neutral, and you're really erring on the malicious/annoying side of lina inverse (though mostly because pathfinder doesn't have comedy effects for fireballs).
I recommend more sense motive checks, your wisdom isn't that bad and if you roll badly and still think the people throwing rocks are evil/malicious, at least you checked first.
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If I were the paladin, I'd be hard-pressed to stay with a party where one of the party members kept killing innocents and then said "teehee, oops, I did it again."
One with these stats I simply wouldn't believe the "oops" after the second time.
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1. The spider room isn't an evil act buy any stretch. Killing the innocents was an unintended consequence of reasonable actions(lots of enemies with no obvious friendly's is a perfect time for fireball). If you didn't know they were there you will probably feel horrible about it but that doesn't make you a bad person and the pally should back off.
2. Room with children is an evil act. Kids throwing stones is a pretty weak provocation for AOE death. If you were actually taking damage from the rocks that some how posed a danger maybe but that is still an extreme response(maybe not evil but definitely not good). In this case the Pally is fully justified with giving you a hard time. I would have been turning you in to the local sheriff personally. This probably isn't enough to shift your alignment but if you do this often your eventually going to fall to evil.
3. My biggest issue is that your not role playing your char. Your stats do not fit the character your playing. So why are you doing it? If your char really was that ditsy maybe your not evil/cn but to me it seems like the char is going out of their way to act recklessly and that makes her actions worse. Play your stats thats what they are there for.
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This is a great time for good roleplay. The impulsive character, wracked with guilt, starts to see the direct impact of not thinking before they act. With the helpful and patient guiding hand of the paladin, they manage to respect the arcane power within them.
Or the paladin is a jerk and issues an ultimateum, which cause the character to feel...
But instead of "wracked with guilt" we get
Oops I did it again and feel bad, but not really...
As I said, after the second time the PC did this and had this reaction, my paladin, ultimatum issuing jerk that he is, would definitely be unwilling to continue on with a "teammate" who casually killed innocents and was "not really" worried about it.
Play as you like. My paladins take innocent death quite seriously. Dead children by the roomful might well be an opportunity to teach, but they are first and foremost dead innocent children.
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So what you have is a very intelligent woman with above average insight and perception who has twice killed innocent people and show almost no signs of remorse. With these stats you are not a dimwit or stupid. Even if your character was stupid she should have still been wracked with guilt. The fact that it looks like you don't even want to change makes me say this character is at least Chaotic Neutral with very strong evil tendencies if not outright evil.
How would you feel if you read about a cop who while trying to apprehend a criminal opens up with an assault rifle in a crowded theater and ends up killing a dozen people including children. Would you be Oh well no big deal? I realize this is only a game but your character is not supposed to realize she is in a game. It is a role playing game so get into your character. If she is the type that does not give a damn about people that is fine but you are going to have problems with the paladin in that case.
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Chaotic neutral, by your description. You really don't need help, you need to roleplay your character differently.
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They would have not been there had they not been "possesed" by evil brain things", the paladin had already said they were evil, and " but it felt hostile at first, so I just reacted" is a very CN action.
And the paladin has to take accountability for the fact he told everyone the creatures in the room are evil. You don't know the rocks were harmless, they could have been a serious threat to the party (considering any Pathfinder world, were anything is posible with magic).
I don't condone the killing of innocents, but this situation has a lot of circumstances that scream "fog of war".
"Fog of war" is not a license to kill innocent children by the roomful. And you are still, deliberately I believe, ignoring the stated attitude of the OP that his character doesn't really care much about all the innocent bodies she's leaving behind.
As I said, play as you like. You SAY you "don't condone the killing of innocents" but as far as I can tell, that's exactly what you are doing.
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This character screams chaotic neutral to me. From description, she cares 'a little' but not enough to hold a ceremony for her innocent victims. Also 'oops I did it again and feel bad but not really' is another example of her indifference to the loss of life. This attitude of course rubs any lawful good character wrong, especially a Paladin.
Regardless, I don't consider either examples above evil acts, though the near total lack of remorse makes it an extremely close call.
I do think your character should have known better when it came to the people trapped in spider webs, though I know things get confused at the game table. Wriggling spider webs sounds an awful lot like 'Threat!' when you've had your sugary snacks and drinks and just finished some spiders already.
Were I the GM at the time, I'd have had you roll a knowledge nature check for your character, DC 8 or so, to know that spiders don't trap themselves in web cocoons. Remember, any character can roll an untrained knowledge check, though the max result they can hit is a DC 10.
As for the rock throwing civilians/children, that's something a lot of people might do impulsively if they'd been fighting for a while. Again, I wouldn't put it as an evil act because of the hostility you were facing, but the lack of remorse makes it VERY close.
I can totally see why a Paladin would be extremely upset with your character, maybe even unwilling to work with her or report her to local authorities as a dangerously reckless adventurer.
I do think your character is currently of the wrong alignment. My advice is to change either your alignment on paper or the way you play your character to match the stated alignment.
If your character still feels no remorse and doesn't intend to take better care in the future to avoid innocent casualties, there is absolutely no way she should remain in good alignment; she should be CN, maybe CE. Going forward, this could be a major problem for interpersonal dynamics with the paladin. In the worst case, this could cause strife between you and the paladins player at the table, so proceed with caution if you go this route.
Aspect, that's why I've commented multiple times on the character's lack of conscience here.
I'm deliberately not getting into the "is this chaotic neutral or chaotic evil behavior" conversation because I've learned that debating alignment is as pointless as counting angels dancing on a pin.
But I can comment on how any paladin I would play would react to being culpable in the repeated slaughter of innocents by a "teammate" who showed no remorse and showed every indication of doing the same thing in the future.
Yeah, I play paladins as judgmental. Because that's a class trait don'tcha know.
It's not CE, it's CN. "Fireball em all and let the gods sort em out" is a character type with a long and storied history in RPGs. But as the player of that type of character you have to manage your 'in character' decisions to fit the actual fun of the group sitting at the table with you. Otherwise you become a thing for them to work against, and that way lies so very much drama and bum-hurtedness.
Think about it like this. Pick any character from fiction that you like. Do they spend every page, pannel, second of screen time doing the exact thing they are known or stereotyped for? Pretty much Pikachu is the only one I can think of that reliably shoots lightning out his bum and says...unerringly..."pikachu." If that is what you are going for...groovy. But many people are going to become irritated by that.
Elle Woods is in interesting character because she's not an airhead, even though she talks and walks like one. She uses that to disarm people...a very canny use of her charms.
Your character can still be a think-later, act-now type of character of great renown and fame/infamy without literally fireballing every dungeon room before any characters (ie players) have a chance to play their characters. It's not a game of slap-jack or whack-a-mole. You don't get bonus points or special abilities for being the first one to jam their character concept into every.single.situation. You could do something like shoot a random lightning bolt at a bat on a cavern ceiling ONCE per game session and your character would be known as the loose canon. Blowing up rooms full of innocents and cooking things alive in bondage is something that comes around rarely. You want those moments to un-nerve the other characters and keep them guessing. NOT..."quick someone restrain Dingbat the Wizard Queen so that we can talk to the prisoners before they are on fire."
TLDR; It's all about feeling the gameroom, and learning when to stop acting "in character" to preserve the...
This!
Also remember Elle Woods was one of the most caring people you will ever meet. She would help you out regardless of social or economic barriers even if she disadvantaged herself in doing so. Elle Woods was very good... you aren't. You seem Neutral by what you posted.
You shouldn't drop a character's alignment for "not caring" about a tragic mistake they made. You can "not care" and still be neutral. The real litmus test would be if they knowingly harm innocents, that would be evil.
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Thalandar... oh my.
How do you "speak out against injustice" if you are unable to JUDGE whether something is just? It's part of the job description that you just posted.
I see that you will go to whatever lengths necessary to "win" this discussion. I'm so tired of every comment becoming a debate with someone who will go to any lengths just to disagree.
The OP asked for opinions. I gave him mine. You disagree. Fine. I think my interpretation of this is more in line with most gamers, but maybe not, maybe roomfuls of charred innocent childrens' bodies is no big deal to most gamers.
I hope not.
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I'd have to go along with the assessment of CN. Don't use it as an excuse to have unlimited freedom, though. A careless person can be deemed a menace by a lawful society.
In fact, a careless person who FAILS TO SHOW REMORSE AND CHANGE HER WAYS can be considered evil, especially by those appointed to seek them out (paladins and clerics).
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Recipe for a terrible advice thread
1. like all good things, start with a monkey
2. have the little guy add a generous helping of ambiguous first post then do the following steps for you:
3. begin adding liberal amounts of random speculation
4. mix in an equal amount of strong opinions that are mostly just personal experience from marginally sorta-kinda-not-quite-similar situations from the thread person's own table
4. if the opinions are very strong and only about specific singular parts of the OP's post while leaving out the rest, this will help the flavour (I spelled it with u so you can trust me)
5. Bring to a boil by derailing into a paladin discussion
6. Garnish with post removals by moderators until proper taste is achieved
7. throw the whole thing out and order takeout which is a metaphor for talking to your GM and the players in your group about the issues
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If chaotic neutral means your character can routinely slaughter innocents and then claim "teehee, oops, I didn't know" then I'd argue we really don't need a "chaotic evil" alignment at all.
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This character is a menace. I wonder what the reprucissions would be if the ditz did this in town?
How would your Paladin know those stats to determine the "oops" was unreasonable?If I were the paladin, I'd be hard-pressed to stay with a party where one of the party members kept killing innocents and then said "teehee, oops, I did it again."
One with these stats I simply wouldn't believe the "oops" after the second time.
Touche. Caught in the act of metagaming.
Actually my paladin wouldn't care. Stupid is no better excuse for killing innocents than anything else, and would get the same reaction from any paladin who views saving the innocent as one of his core reasons for existence.
But how "wise" or "intelligent" the character actually is could be judged from in character actions. Is this the only thing that she seems ditzy about? Does she make wise and intelligent choices otherwise?
But yeah, referencing stats was metagaming and I shouldn't have done it. I wondered how long before someone pointed it out... :)
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Oh goodie, another alignment thread!
This is CN at worst to me, unless the character continues to kill innocents and not care, then she'd move over to the evil side of the spectrum. I agree that the OP needs to be less trigger happy and learn to play the CG alignment better if that's what they want to do, otherwise switch over to the CN and you can have your "I don't care" moments.
I'd also suggest that you and your group get together and talk about the situations and alignments and see what THEY think. It's them you have to play with and if they think you are going overboard with the "oops" moments, you need to correct your role-playing. It all comes down to your group and trying to figure out what the consensus is on the different alignments. It's up to each group to do this instead of coming here and asking a bunch of random strangers (some who love to troll) what their thoughts are and getting different opinions on your game and your character for each and every one of them.
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Chaotic Evil just reacts when rocks are thrown at them. Chaotic Evil Nukes the room and kills everyone who might be a potential threat. Chaotic Evil nukes cocoons without checking what is in them first. Yeh, pretty much Chaotic Evil does everything you have done.
Chaotic GOOD thinks about GOOD things and isn't disposed to immediate reaction without taking just a second to think about the good in the situation. For instance, checking the cocoons to SEE if they are spiders or captured people that they have a CHANCE OF SAVING = a good act. Or another instance, closing the door when rocks are being thrown at them - not only because it gives you time to think "rocks?" but also because it saves your party from being hit - two, two, two good acts in one!
Honestly, just nuking everything you come across is not good hearted, as the alignment intends. Good hearted means you THINK the good of situations before you think "gotta nuke em".
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I don't know, I've never paid a whole lot of attention to D&D's arbitrary alignment spectrum and tend to interpret the alignments my own way, so maybe we see things differently Adamantine Dragon.
Chaotic Neutral: Someone who doesn't give a s%&@ and does what they feel like, someone ruled by the moment
Chaotic Evil: as Chaotic Neutral, but with evil passions who takes joy in fulfilling them.
So, in your opinion the only difference between chaotic evil and chaotic neutral is that the chaotic evil character ENJOYS doing evil while the chaotic neutral character is just sort of "meh" about it?
If so, I repeat myself. Chaotic evil seems a redundant alignment.
I just don't see the spirits of the dead children caring that much about whether the sorc who just fried them giggled or guffawed.
You're chaotic neutral if you only perform those acts in the heat of the moment. If you have a calm moment to think and you still fireball innocents just because it's the more 'convenient' thing to do, then your character is more than likely crossing the line. And as for your stats, you can have all INT and WIS in the world, but those do not account for personal reactions in the heat of the moment. Also, just as a side note, I love the ditzy sorceress idea. Had a ditzy necromancer once. You can imagine how that turned out lol.
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The OP asked for opinions. I gave him mine. You disagree. Fine. I think my interpretation of this is more in line with most gamers, but maybe not, maybe roomfuls of charred innocent childrens' bodies is no big deal to most gamers.
I hope not.
I most certainly would say most players would be bothered by burning a bunch of people to death. In fact, a thread I made a few months back, I recall the forums clamoring for an evil alignment for everyone. How the times change.
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The character has definitely slid into Evil, but its not for the killing of innocents. Tragedy and mistakes happen. Its terrible, but its true. Someone makes a bad call, misjudges what is going on, and innocent people pay the price. A mistake does not make someone evil. What makes the character evil is the fact that the character doesn't really seem to care about it.
A good aligned character would have something of a mental breakdown if they just fried a room full of children, maybe even going so far as to swear off magic from then on (maybe symbolize this by taking fighter levels from now on) and do whatever they could to make amends.
A neutral character would still be racked with guilt and would probably change their ways, maybe even shifting to a Good alignment, in order to make up for this tragedy.
An evil, non-sociopathic character would just go "Whoops!" and go on their way, as this character has seemed to do given they've done this twice now.
Definitely this. The character is, in my assessment, a sociopath and therefore neutral evil. Utterly incapable of feeling empathy and remorse.