Howdy folks.
I'm still playing in a perma-level 1 campaign, my bard is now in serious risk of dying, so I'm bringing my next potential character to the next session.
It's a VERY low op game, most people new to pathfinder at least, some new to 3.? in general and even one new to RP at all.
It's 10 point buy, Core only (though some Advanced players handbook stuff may be allowed on a case by case basis) as such, no traits and no alternate racial traits (unless maybe there is a very good reason and they are in the APG)
Further, we don't really get any starting equipment, absolutely mundane stuff within reason + a single simple weapon has been the guideline.
The rest of the group consists of:
An Infernal bloodline Sorcerer who casts Sleep and Color Spray and uses a heavy crossbow he found otherwise.
A Gnome rogue who prefers to use a light crossbow, but also has a dagger.
A Human ranger who recently acquired a Masterwork Composite longbow, he's ranged.
A Human Cleric with the Healing and Rune domains, has been doing a lot of healing recently. She might be ok for melee now that she' acquired a hide armor, but her 7 dex remains troublesome.
My bard, who is now in a sea-hag induced coma in a world without remove curse must now save three times vs. dc 14 with her +0 fortitude save or die. (the cleric can boost her somewhat, but we're still looking at a 65%+ chance of death)
I'm thinking, since this group is very very squishy, and everyone is trying to stay at range, but the enemies typically close to melee anyway, I might make a melee fighter to keep the heat off them. Possibly a Human Fighter or Paladin.
I've also considered a second Cleric (taking Travel and Luck Domains), a druid with a formidable animal companion or an Elven Longbow wielding wizard. (when not casting)
Bear in mind that while this game will eventually advance beyond level 1, we are expected to stay there for quite a while yet.
I'm considering a fighter or paladin with powerattack+cleave, since that seems like something useful at low levels.
Second the barbarian. I'd also suggest ranger but 1st level w/low stats won't see the same boost - rangers are long term developers. A fighter w/low stats is slightly better than an NPC warrior, which is to say not great, but human w/13 str, power attack and a weapon focus in whatever weapon you can afford might not be bad. Throw in cleave ftw.
If you're 1st level what kind of monsters/encounters are you seeing? Right now you're needing a good tank, so maybe the human fighter is your best bet. W/a 10 pt buy I'd say dump Int and Cha, put your points into Str, Dex and Con, and plan on being up front either to encourage rogue + flank = SA or to clear minions. Steal any armor you can get as well as shields.
Can you have archetypes? Also I know you don't start w/much, but how little are we talking. Can you or your party loot the corpse of the bard?
If we loot my bard (as we probably will if she dies), she has a flute, some colored balls for juggling, a dagger, a masterwork shortbow and two quivers and a single gold piece.
I'm not sure barbarian is appealing, but definitely on my list of possibilities.
Currently considering a stat array of
16 str. 12 dex, 12 con, 13 int, 8 wis, 10 cha.
That keeps the door open for combat expertise and then the feats connected to that. Probably only important for fighter.
If I go paladin I'll probably go
16 str. 12 dex, 12 con, 8 int, 8 wis, 14 cha.
and no, no archetypes.
Perma-level 1? As in, "will never reach level 2"? I would go Barbarian.
If you are going to eventually move to Semi-Perma-level 2, I would probably go Paladin.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
Though it will probably be more like level one for a while, then at some point the damn will break and leveling will be possible at a more normal rate.
Paladin is only marginally less useful than a fighter at level 1, more useful in some ways, and IF he gets to level at all, he rapidly becomes much more useful.
Barbarian competes, certainly. But I think for other reasons (rp, and the fact that we recently lost a barbarian) I'd rather take paladin of those two options.
If I do, I'm thinking sword and shield (if I can get weapons at all) with power attack and cleave (though a two handed weapon wouldn't be UTTERLY stupid, I probably shouldn't at this point)
If APG is available on a case by case basis you should ask about being an Alchemist or Summoner. Bombs are really great at low levels since the splash damage can kill many foes, and a Summoner can create lots of expendable melee tanks.
If those options are out then the Power Attack and Cleave builds you've mentioned might be great. I'd consider a Druid though. Summon Nature's Ally would be sort of situational since it would only last a single round, but your animal companion would have two hit dice and pretty decent combat abilities compared to 1st level PCs with 10 point buy. It would also be somewhat expendable since if it died you could summon a new one in 24 hours.
Summoned monsters and animal companions have a fixed power level, so they can really shine in games which use very low point buy. The big cat and small cat companions are both pretty good with Power Attack or Weapon Finesse respectively though I'd say small cat is probably a little better at low levels. The horse companion could also be interesting if you want to be mounted.
Anyhow, the best way to survive is probably to make something else do the fighting.
Is it possible to make a small druid, say, halfling, and use a large cat (like a mountain lion) as a mount?
Would it be smart, if it were?
Yes, you could certainly do that.
No archetypes, core races only, alternate racial traits probably not, but can ask.
Yeah.
You could certainly play a small race which uses a medium creature as a mount. In fact, a small PC often works better for mounted builds if you think you'll be doing a lot of adventuring indoors. There are a bunch of animal companions to choose from. Here's a full (or nearly full) List of Animal Companions
You don't actually need Mounted Commbat. A human Druid with Spell Focus and Augment Summoning is probably a more effective build overall, but riding around negating hits on your animal companion and or getting a +4 AC bonus for hiding behind it can be a lot of fun. At higher levels a pouncing big cat can also do pretty good damage.
The mounted combat concepts can work a lot better in games with access to more than the Core book, but the Druid should be an effective class either way.
I'm finding myself liking the druid intellectually, but my subconscious seems to have decided on a human melee paladin.
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Nearly level 1 forever? Goodness a Human Fighter with a Great-sword will have an absolute field day in combat.
Human Paladin is good too, really any of the main fightery types should be enjoyable. 10 points is a bit harsh probably but you can finagle yourself a decent enough Strength and Constitution score.
15 (13+2), 10, 12, 12, 8, 14 - Decent stats for that power level.
No traits.
Why int 12, incidentally? With such low stats overall, I'd rather have my strength at 16 I think, as the wait to raise it at level 4 will be long and tiresome.
I think my choice is mostly between int 10 and dex 10 or int 8 and dex 12.
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Because if your going to be very slowly leveling up you'll want every skill point you can scrape out. Combat is fun and all but being good at various other things should help out a lot.
A 1st level melee character with 5 skill points will be a lot more fun to play then one with only 2. Especially given the nice skills a paladin has access to and a lack of trait bonuses. A great-sword will handle a goblin on anything but an absolute minimum damage roll.
Druid = not a bad choice either. Go small (halfling, gnome), get a big cat, then focus all spells on buffing cat/debuffing enemies. I still say fighter over paladin, but if you want a bit of utility go w/a druid.
The thing is your party needs melee options. 1 - the rogue needs a flanker (your cat, summon nature's ally, you as a fighter), 2 - you need something to hold BBEG's or hordes at bay while your ranged party picks them off. I still think a tank on the front lines is a decent choice, but more battlefield control via druid spells and summoned creatures at least sets up shooting lanes for the ranged damage.
Core only, 10 pt buy, never go on to level 2, low magic, low loot, poor starting cash?
WHY?!?
But here’s what I’d do:
Bob the Pig Farmer; Commoner 1
Str 12
Dex12
Con12
Int12
Wis12
Cha 10
Weapon; pitchfork. Feat- Skill focus Profession Pig Farmer., Toughness.
OR;
Princess Artemesia A”tlan
Aristocrat
Str 8
Dex12
Con10
Int10
Wis10
Cha 18
Feat- Skill focus Diplomacy, Persuasive.
Yeah, that's been nagging at me too. Does your GM not like you? Are they punishing you for mistakes in their own past? Is there a loose cannon out on the ragged edge in your group that likes to play by their own rules?
Seriously, I keep waiting for you to tell us the GM whipped back a curtain and you realize it's been Azmodeus the whole time...
so the level 1 thing against a sea hag is CRAZY bent.
1st level until i say you can go higher is fine...but a sea hag??
The barbarian is the way to go here; here's my first look at Barbarian:
14 str. 12 dex, 16 con, 10 int, 8 wis, 10 cha.
The con will give you the most rounds of rage/day and the most HPs
Take toughness for more HPs
The rage will give you STR when you need it.
IF you dont have gear and stuff yet thats fine. Simple weapon? GREAT Club. Human? Second Feat Catch off guard. If you're using max hp at first level ( I hope so) that gives you 20hp if you put your favored class bonus to HP.
I dunno where you will get armor from but hide armor shouldnt be hard to get, seriously.
Fighter might work, a human with three feats could get much done:
16 str. 12 dex, 12 con, 13 int, 8 wis, 10 cha.
Feats: Power attack, Cleave , combat expertise
However, there is also a monk build, that in a world where it's hard to get AC and gear, would be king at level 1 -perma style.
14 (race+2) str. 14 dex, 12 con, 8 int, 14 wis, 8 cha.
Feats: Dodge, toughness, throw anything
With those stats he would actually have a 15 AC but only 13 hp, compared the the barbarians 20 but 10 AC.
A dwarf monk (assuming you can have dwarves)
Might look like:
12 Str 12 dex 16 con 8 int 16 wis 6 cha
Feats: dodge, toughness
Ac would be 15 (the same) and HP would be 15.
Plus the dwarf would get a few racial bonuses like darkvison and some help with encumbrance when carrying stuff and some CMD help. But loses +1 to hit and damage.
Human monk. 12, 14, 10, 10, 14, 8 stat array. Dodge as your monk feat, toughness as you human feat, and weapon focus unarmed as your lvl1 feat.
You have great overall saves, passable ac for level one depending on where you put your +2 stat, reliable weapon, and decent skill selection. Monks are survivors.
yea I didnt think of weapon focus fist... but throw anything would give her all sorts of ammo.... literally anything she can pick up... which would help with staying at range when possible... toss up between the two.
Or what Pendagast said.
Yeah, I want to hear more about the "why" behind this game...
Other than that, I would roll up a human fighter, since being able to put three feats together would make you about as powerful as you can get in a level 1 campaign.
Monks get three feats as well. You could be a spirit of water elf and use a long spear for reach, and unarmed for close range, but that is starting to jack with your durability. Your feats would probly be combat reflexes and dodge.
Yep. Human fighter with power attack, cleave, and improved initiative. Paladin is also good.
I'm going to recommend Dwarf Fighter.
Str 14, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 5
Feats: Shield Focus, Either Breadth of Experience or Steel Soul (From APG), or if they are disallowed, Toughness.
Skills should be survival and a profession skill (So you can make at least some money in your down time). See if you can replace Greed for craftsman.
Wield a dwarven waraxe (if you can get one), heavy shield plus the best armor you can afford. You have good saves, lots of hit points, good AC, and a good weapon. You should be able to survive for quite a while.
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The why is simple.
The IC:
Over three thousand years ago, some great calamity overcame the world, it is unknown if the heroes of the world failed to stop some epic nefarious spell from happening, or if it was the dying curse of an evil greater god, or what have you, nobody knows.
What we do know is that ever since then, something was lost from the world, some spark or essence of greatness, even the mightiest heroes only spawned weak, lackluster children, nobody seemed to be able to amount to anything, and nobody could understand how or why this had happened...or if they did, they were either unable or unwilling to reverse it.
Since then history has turned to legend and legend to myth, we are lucky than any knowledge of any world at all before this crapsack world is available at all.
The curse affects all creatures, preventing them from becoming more than baseline proficient in anything, whether from lack of brainpower, initiative or some ill-defined spark, you simply cannot become more than you were. This translates into a single class level for creatures without racial HD, it is unknown by PCs whether creatures with monstrous HD are able to get a single class level also.
OOC:
It's a subversion of the typical D&D experience to begin with. It's more about the characters and the story at this point, combat is a high risk, small reward venture in most cases.
It's not about punishing us, certainly, but it is about having an unusual D&D game.
We will be able to reverse the curse at some point, perhaps first having had an extraplanar adventure or something, which would allow us to approach the problem with some degree of skill.
The GM said he envisioned three tiers of play.
1. A world without heroes.
2. A world discovering heroes.
3. Heroes discovering the world.
p.s. IF there are survivors from the age of heroes, high level characters from before able to survive by becoming liches, vampires, godlings or being dragons or retreating to unaging demi-planes, such are as far as we know, unknown.
p.p.s. there is no contact from the gods, at all, they are either unable or unwilling to take a hand, though divine magic for spells still flows.
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Did someone forget to pay the XP bill again?
I'm going to recommend Dwarf Fighter.
Str 14, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 5
Feats: Shield Focus, Either Breadth of Experience or Steel Soul (From APG), or if they are disallowed, Toughness.
Skills should be survival and a profession skill (So you can make at least some money in your down time). See if you can replace Greed for craftsman.Wield a dwarven waraxe (if you can get one), heavy shield plus the best armor you can afford. You have good saves, lots of hit points, good AC, and a good weapon. You should be able to survive for quite a while.
Dilv, they get one simple weapon.....
apparently dont have ready access to armor and shields and certainly wont start with one. Kinda guts that whole concept. so morning star or spear are the best bet...
your build in this case would have an 11 AC....yay. the gear rip off is huge here, daggers and xbows are the best they have...no armor shields and dwarf axes...
I didn't realize the gear ripoff. Might I suggest then...Ranger (hear me out).
Skills Monkey sort of - rangers get a decent amount of skills. Take survival, craft (stonemason) and craft (weaponsmith). Now ask constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY, if there are rocks nearby.
ANY down time for party - your ranger is making stone weapons. Spears, axes, hammers, whatever. If you've got the time - they're potentially good. Otherwise you're using flint knapping; snapping off flakes from the stone or grinding them down using other stones. Its labor intensive but you should be able to produce disposable weapons w/ease.
Now you become indespensible as the girl that makes tons of weapons!
Dwarf fighter looks like the best bet to me.
I'm going to recommend Dwarf Fighter.
Str 14, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 5
Feats: Shield Focus, Either Breadth of Experience or Steel Soul (From APG), or if they are disallowed, Toughness.
Skills should be survival and a profession skill (So you can make at least some money in your down time). See if you can replace Greed for craftsman.Wield a dwarven waraxe (if you can get one), heavy shield plus the best armor you can afford. You have good saves, lots of hit points, good AC, and a good weapon. You should be able to survive for quite a while.
Dilv, they get one simple weapon.....
apparently dont have ready access to armor and shields and certainly wont start with one. Kinda guts that whole concept. so morning star or spear are the best bet...
your build in this case would have an 11 AC....yay. the gear rip off is huge here, daggers and xbows are the best they have...no armor shields and dwarf axes...
Hmm... yah, didn't realize no armor or shields, figured they'd get a wooden shield and something like studded leather at least. I meant get a dwarven waraxe as soon as possible. Figured to start with get a morningstar. But if there is no armor or shields either...
Monk. Definitely monk.
I didn't realize the gear ripoff. Might I suggest then...Ranger (hear me out).
Skills Monkey sort of - rangers get a decent amount of skills. Take survival, craft (stonemason) and craft (weaponsmith). Now ask constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY, if there are rocks nearby.
ANY down time for party - your ranger is making stone weapons. Spears, axes, hammers, whatever. If you've got the time - they're potentially good. Otherwise you're using flint knapping; snapping off flakes from the stone or grinding them down using other stones. Its labor intensive but you should be able to produce disposable weapons w/ease.
Now you become indespensible as the girl that makes tons of weapons!
Coal-fueled hollow log bazooka.
Wow, missed that too. Monk then as well.
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Gnome
Druid
-Stats-
STR 12 (-2 racial) = 10
DEX 16
CON 10 (+2 racial) = 12
INT 10
WIS 12 (+2 racial) = 14
CHA 07
-Saves-
HP 10
AC 14
Fort 3
Ref 3
Will 4
-Feats-
01 Two-Weapon Fighting
-Misc-
Animal Companion = Roc (Flying mount for u when needed, flanking partner, and eyes in the sky scout)
Use Quarterstaff
Shillelagh spell will be ur bread and butter spell
Favored Class Druid get extra HP
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Human
Sorcerer (Arcane Bloodline)
-Stats-
STR 11
DEX 16 (+2 racial) = 18
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 07
CHA 13
-Saves-
HP 06
AC 13 [21 (+4 mage armor)(+4 shield)]
Fort 0
Ref 4
Will 0
-Feats-
01 eschew materials, Weapon Finesse
-Spells-
0- Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Prestidigitation
1- Shield, Mage Armor
-Misc-
*Bloodline power = Bond weapon (Sickle)
*Favored Class Sorcerer Human abbility to pick up Ray of Frost (1d3 ray attack so u have a ranged attack that can be done when ever u feel like)
Human Fighter - Power Attack, Cleave, Cleaving Finish
yea the equipment robber baron thing really blows.
daggers crossbows and the HUGE find being hide armor....hmmm.
Spell casters can really win here.
Also a druid can have a pet, pet can fight and pet can be replaced... expendable resource?
All good ideas, except that you are all going at this like it’s a real D&D game.
OP- drop any idea of making the character powerful or good in combat. Just make it fun. In fact, make the character more or less useless in combat. Use a NPC class. Use stats that are the opposite of powergaming, or mix/maxing. Go for pure 100% roleplaying.
Altho Commoner might be too much, playing a aristocrat would be much fun. A bard, like you did is a great idea, but a rogue might also work.
Another concept is a pacifistic monk with a vow of poverty. He does “full defense’ all the time, and refuses to carry or own anything worth more than 1gp.
STR 12
Dex12
Con12
Wis 12+2
Int12
Cha 10.
Heck, even if you later on get to be a “real adventurer” a level of Monk or Rogue is still cool to build on, less so with Aristocrat but even that works.
Subvert the system, go for something completely non-combat.