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On the chronicle sheet you have the option for the ioun stone, however it is an evil act to activate which will knock your alignment 1 towards evil. My question is can a CN cleric of a CN deity activate it then immediately cast atonement to restore their original alignment by them selves (spending gp on mat cost)?
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I'm in this same boat. Our group has noted that the atonement takes care of the initial evil issue, but if there are still evil floating jewels around our heads...
"Oh, I'm sorry were you detecting evil? That's not me, it's just my jewelry. Totally different. Don't worry, people get us mixed up all the time! Just to clear up the record, I'm not evil anymore. But I will certainly do evil things and get a cleric to cast atonement on me. I'd keep an eye on me while you sleep, just saying."
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Do you have to atone every day you use it? - as you will generally put it away while asleep
If you get it in the scenario, and can't get rid it, do you still have to pay for it?! 30,000 GP
EDIT: you only get it if you activated it _in_ the scenario, otherwise it should be crossed out on the chronicle.
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If its in a wayfinder then it counts as always active as long as you keep the wayfinder on you. You don't spend anything for the stone. The GM forgot about that caveat and when he was handing out the chronicles explained that we needed to make the choice whether to activate or not right then, but when I asked if if I could cast atonement just after I first activate it to reverse the alignment hit otherwise I will more then likely end up with an unplayable character due to being CE, he said he wasn't sure due thoughts that you couldn't cast atonement on yourself.
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You should, however, have the opportunity to pay for an atonement cast by someone else before the scenario "ends".
This is correct. The ioun stone has two negative effects that come as consequences of giving into the temptation of the power it offers. The first is the shifting of your alignment one degree toward evil. A CN character would thus shift to CE and need to receive an atonement (cast by another PC or an NPC) before completing the session's Chronicle sheet, which would need to list the spell as a condition removed. The second effect is the item's curse, which prevents you from removing it once it's been activated (save by the methods listed in the item description). This means you always have a gem orbiting your head (or in your wayfinder, which you also can't remove) that radiates evil. This magical aura does not in itself shift your alignment, but it could present a problem should you ever face someone who can detect alignment and who would be upset by you flaunting such evil. If you're ok with that and pay for an atonement, then you're golden.
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I'm running this tonight and was thinking of giving the chronicle to a PC that isn't level 7 yet. How does the atonement work in this case - do I just pay the cost of atonement when the character reaches level 7?
You mean playing a pregen. The chronicle and stone aren't available until the PC reaches level 7, at which point he must pay the atonement if necessary.
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Hmm, just curious (and not wanting to start the flames) but if a Paladin activates it, he's done right? Because it's knowingly performing an evil act?
I am also looking for an answer to this question, as I'm running this scenario on Monday and one of the characters is a paladin. Not only that, but the player of this particular paladin is always looking for any mechanical advantage, even if it's morally grey (I know he's already required several atonements).
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I'm running this tonight and was thinking of giving the chronicle to a PC that isn't level 7 yet. How does the atonement work in this case - do I just pay the cost of atonement when the character reaches level 7?
Jussi, The way I was told how these types of things work is the same way as if you played a pregen in a scenario and the pregen died during it. When you apply the chronicle to a character that now qualifies for that chronicle, that character dies. You then are going to have to pay to bring that character back.
Here's my example that I can give you:
I GM'ed 4-10 and when I filled out the chronicle, I noted the rewards and applied it to my level 1 Bard who is NG alignment. I then GM'ed 4-12 and gave him that chronicle as well, noting his reward. When he hits 7, he is going to need to atone once before I play him. His alignment would then be true Neutral.
Thanks!
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Hmm, just curious (and not wanting to start the flames) but if a Paladin activates it, he's done right? Because it's knowingly performing an evil act?
Hmmm...Interesting....I am curious as well, more for what M&M's take is on this particular item. From personal experience, I have ran this 6 times now, and 2 of the 6 tables had paladins and both of the paladins were like, "So, hang on, there is an ioun stone that is detecting evil?" Mmmm...No thanks, I like my regular, plain-jane, non-radiating-evil, clear spindle ioun stone." Hell, one of them was Osirion and wouldn't even complete the faction mission in 4-12.
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Hmm, just curious (and not wanting to start the flames) but if a Paladin activates it, he's done right? Because it's knowingly performing an evil act?Hmmm...Interesting....I am curious as well, more for what M&M's take is on this particular item. From personal experience, I have ran this 6 times now, and 2 of the 6 tables had paladins and both of the paladins were like, "So, hang on, there is an ioun stone that is detecting evil?" Mmmm...No thanks, I like my regular, plain-jane, non-radiating-evil, clear spindle ioun stone." Hell, one of them was Osirion and wouldn't even complete the faction mission in 4-12.
My compliments to your players then. :-)
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Hmm, just curious (and not wanting to start the flames) but if a Paladin activates it, he's done right? Because it's knowingly performing an evil act?Yes. Since a paladin must be LG, an alignment shift in any direction would result in the loss of her powers.
Ah, I was still thinking 3/x Paladins. So it's Willingly turn the stone on, lose powers, one atonement later and he's all better. Got it. I was thinking of when a Paladin commited an evil act willingly he was now a fighter w/o bonus feats for good.
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You should, however, have the opportunity to pay for an atonement cast by someone else before the scenario "ends".This is correct. The ioun stone has two negative effects that come as consequences of giving into the temptation of the power it offers. The first is the shifting of your alignment one degree toward evil. A CN character would thus shift to CE and need to receive an atonement (cast by another PC or an NPC) before completing the session's Chronicle sheet, which would need to list the spell as a condition removed. The second effect is the item's curse, which prevents you from removing it once it's been activated (save by the methods listed in the item description). This means you always have a gem orbiting your head (or in your wayfinder, which you also can't remove) that radiates evil. This magical aura does not in itself shift your alignment, but it could present a problem should you ever face someone who can detect alignment and who would be upset by you flaunting such evil. If you're ok with that and pay for an atonement, then you're golden.
Or you could do what I'm doing and activate it, pay for the atonement and then in between scenarios implant the ioun stone on the back of your forearm and buy a nice pair of Lead bracers (or whatever spot you want to put it that you can cover with a nice piece of jewelry).
500ish gold for a new feat is well worth it to me.
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You should, however, have the opportunity to pay for an atonement cast by someone else before the scenario "ends".This is correct. The ioun stone has two negative effects that come as consequences of giving into the temptation of the power it offers. The first is the shifting of your alignment one degree toward evil. A CN character would thus shift to CE and need to receive an atonement (cast by another PC or an NPC) before completing the session's Chronicle sheet, which would need to list the spell as a condition removed. The second effect is the item's curse, which prevents you from removing it once it's been activated (save by the methods listed in the item description). This means you always have a gem orbiting your head (or in your wayfinder, which you also can't remove) that radiates evil. This magical aura does not in itself shift your alignment, but it could present a problem should you ever face someone who can detect alignment and who would be upset by you flaunting such evil. If you're ok with that and pay for an atonement, then you're golden.Or you could do what I'm doing and activate it, pay for the atonement and then in between scenarios implant the ioun stone on the back of your forearm and buy a nice pair of Lead bracers (or whatever spot you want to put it that you can cover with a nice piece of jewelry).
500ish gold for a new feat is well worth it to me.
There is problem with this stone for that however, has you have to stop the stone from orbiting to physically implant it. Since you can't stop the orbit because of the curse, I don't think you can implant it without paying for a remove curse, and then a second atonement once you activate it again with the implant. So a total of 1650 gp or 5 prestige. That's my opinion however.
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There is problem with this stone for that however, has you have to stop the stone from orbiting to physically implant it. Since you can't stop the orbit because of the curse, I don't think you can implant it without paying for a remove curse, and then a second atonement once you activate it again with the implant. So a total of 1650 gp or 5 prestige. That's my opinion however.You should, however, have the opportunity to pay for an atonement cast by someone else before the scenario "ends".This is correct. The ioun stone has two negative effects that come as consequences of giving into the temptation of the power it offers. The first is the shifting of your alignment one degree toward evil. A CN character would thus shift to CE and need to receive an atonement (cast by another PC or an NPC) before completing the session's Chronicle sheet, which would need to list the spell as a condition removed. The second effect is the item's curse, which prevents you from removing it once it's been activated (save by the methods listed in the item description). This means you always have a gem orbiting your head (or in your wayfinder, which you also can't remove) that radiates evil. This magical aura does not in itself shift your alignment, but it could present a problem should you ever face someone who can detect alignment and who would be upset by you flaunting such evil. If you're ok with that and pay for an atonement, then you're golden.Or you could do what I'm doing and activate it, pay for the atonement and then in between scenarios implant the ioun stone on the back of your forearm and buy a nice pair of Lead bracers (or whatever spot you want to put it that you can cover with a nice piece of jewelry).
500ish gold for a new feat is well worth it to me.
makes since to me
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There is problem with this stone for that however, has you have to stop the stone from orbiting to physically implant it. Since you can't stop the orbit because of the curse, I don't think you can implant it without paying for a remove curse, and then a second atonement once you activate it again with the implant. So a total of 1650 gp or 5 prestige. That's my opinion however.You should, however, have the opportunity to pay for an atonement cast by someone else before the scenario "ends".This is correct. The ioun stone has two negative effects that come as consequences of giving into the temptation of the power it offers. The first is the shifting of your alignment one degree toward evil. A CN character would thus shift to CE and need to receive an atonement (cast by another PC or an NPC) before completing the session's Chronicle sheet, which would need to list the spell as a condition removed. The second effect is the item's curse, which prevents you from removing it once it's been activated (save by the methods listed in the item description). This means you always have a gem orbiting your head (or in your wayfinder, which you also can't remove) that radiates evil. This magical aura does not in itself shift your alignment, but it could present a problem should you ever face someone who can detect alignment and who would be upset by you flaunting such evil. If you're ok with that and pay for an atonement, then you're golden.Or you could do what I'm doing and activate it, pay for the atonement and then in between scenarios implant the ioun stone on the back of your forearm and buy a nice pair of Lead bracers (or whatever spot you want to put it that you can cover with a nice piece of jewelry).
500ish gold for a new feat is well worth it to me.
Actually if you read the rules for implanting an Ioun stone it never states you have to stop it from orbiting. You simply put it in orbit and establish a bond with it, then after an hour and a successful heal check it has merged into your flesh at the site of your choosing.
I've always seen it as you surgically opening a wound on your flesh and coaxing the orbiting stone into that location and sealing it in. Removing it from orbit would sever the connection between you and it (since it specifically states a non orbiting stone is an inert object like a common stone).
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Im fine with filling up space cause he makes an interesting argument for it. would like to see how others would think about this.
ok
Actually if you read the rules for implanting an Ioun stone it never states you have to stop it from orbiting. You simply put it in orbit and establish a bond with it, then after an hour and a successful heal check it has merged into your flesh at the site of your choosing.
I've always seen it as you surgically opening a wound on your flesh and coaxing the orbiting stone into that location and sealing it in. Removing it from orbit would sever the connection between you and it (since it specifically states a non orbiting stone is an inert object like a common stone).
There are no rules that state you can exert control over the flight of an ioun stone either. (if I missed something please tell me) The rules could be more clear sure. How I have always interpreted it is after your ritual to bond with the stone, it is then surgically implanted (there is specific text about implanting and surgery on the page).
To me the bonding process with the stone makes it work as long as you are touching it, not just orbiting. Then by implanting the stone you free up your hands.
Since were talking about it anyway. Shouldn't the process of bonding with the evil stone be considered and evil act just like activating it?
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Im fine with filling up space cause he makes an interesting argument for it. would like to see how others would think about this.ok
Actually if you read the rules for implanting an Ioun stone it never states you have to stop it from orbiting. You simply put it in orbit and establish a bond with it, then after an hour and a successful heal check it has merged into your flesh at the site of your choosing.
I've always seen it as you surgically opening a wound on your flesh and coaxing the orbiting stone into that location and sealing it in. Removing it from orbit would sever the connection between you and it (since it specifically states a non orbiting stone is an inert object like a common stone).
There are no rules that state you can exert control over the flight of an ioun stone either. (if I missed something please tell me) The rules could be more clear sure. How I have always interpreted it is after your ritual to bond with the stone, it is then surgically implanted (there is specific text about implanting and surgery on the page).
To me the bonding process with the stone makes it work as long as you are touching it, not just orbiting. Then by implanting the stone you free up your hands.
Since were talking about it anyway. Shouldn't the process of bonding with the evil stone be considered and evil act just like activating it?
well it does specifically staqte that altering your emotional state does alter the orbit of the stone and can even make it hover perfectly still but that's not the point. The only thing we have that mechanically determines the process of bonding with a stone is you hold it and put it in orbit around you. THEN you make a heal check and it is surgically implanted onto your skin. It never says you have to stop it's orbit only that you have to put it in orbit first.
Your second point of voluntarily bonding with evil stone is a different question. I could definitely see it as an evil act that way but if you do them both at the same time (putting it in orbit then bonding with it) should probably be covered by the same atonement spell.
I mostly bring it up to get some clarification on exactly how to handle the many, MANY options the optimizers will come up with to get the benefits of this stone while avoiding as much of the penalty as possible.
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well it does specifically staqte that altering your emotional state does alter the orbit of the stone and can even make it hover perfectly still but that's not the point.
Yes emotional state can affect the orbit, but you can't gain control of it.
The only thing we have that mechanically determines the process of bonding with a stone is you hold it and put it in orbit around you. THEN you make a heal check and it is surgically implanted onto your skin. It never says you have to stop it's orbit only that you have to put it in orbit first.
The omission of text doesn't remove common sense. How do you surgically implant something that is floating? Surgically implanting something requires precision, if you can explain how that can be done with something that is floating (and most likely trying to move since you don't stop the orbit), then you can sway me.
Your second point of voluntarily bonding with evil stone is a different question. I could definitely see it as an evil act that way but if you do them both at the same time (putting it in orbit then bonding with it) should probably be covered by the same atonement spell.
I don't think they can be, you have to clear the evil act of activating the stone on the chronicle after completing the scenario. Remember you only get the boon if activate the ioun stone during play. Since the process of implanting takes place in between scenarios it can't be covered by the same atonement.
I mostly bring it up to get some clarification on exactly how to handle the many, MANY options the optimizers will come up with to get the benefits of this stone while avoiding as much of the penalty as possible.
And that is why I chimed in, cause the downside of a floating evil stone around your head shouldn't be taken lightly. If the optimizers think they can try to hide the evil stone by implanting it I don't think it will work.
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well it does specifically staqte that altering your emotional state does alter the orbit of the stone and can even make it hover perfectly still but that's not the point.Yes emotional state can affect the orbit, but you can't gain control of it.
The only thing we have that mechanically determines the process of bonding with a stone is you hold it and put it in orbit around you. THEN you make a heal check and it is surgically implanted onto your skin. It never says you have to stop it's orbit only that you have to put it in orbit first.The omission of text doesn't remove common sense. How do you surgically implant something that is floating? Surgically implanting something requires precision, if you can explain how that can be done with something that is floating (and most likely trying to move since you don't stop the orbit), then you can sway me.
Changing it's orbit, holding it still, moving it in reverse are all examples of proof that you CAN change where it is in relation to where it wants to be. A week+ meditating on just manipulating that single Ioun stone's COULD be enough to send it flying directly at an open wound on your arm and stay there (while maintaining it's bond to you) allowing you to make a few deft stitches in your flesh to hold it there. Since we don't know what the Heal check actually entails then any interpretation could be correct.
Your second point of voluntarily bonding with evil stone is a different question. I could definitely see it as an evil act that way but if you do them both at the same time (putting it in orbit then bonding with it) should probably be covered by the same atonement spell.I don't think they can be, you have to clear the evil act of activating the stone on the chronicle after completing the scenario. Remember you only get the boon if activate the ioun stone during play. Since the process of implanting takes place in between scenarios it can't be covered by the same atonement.
This is not actually true and there are two mistakes in this statement.
First the boon is granted from activating the Ioun stone, but since this is an item granted to you then you can activate it whenever you want as long as you choose to keep the ioun stone during the scenario. If you decide to wait until the next day or the next scenario you should get the boon then it is an item you own that grants the boon not the chronicle sheet. (this question has been posted to the devs and they have not disallowed it yet)Second, Implanting a Ioun Stone between scenarios only makes it an automatic success. If you choose to try and implant it during a scenario you just need to take sufficient time to fulfill the prereqs to qualify for the roll.
Remember you don't get your chronicle sheet until you the player state you have finished and are ready to take it. If you wish to kill the boss and sit on his throne for a week before heading back to town that is your right as a player. This time is usually when arcane casters copy spells from looted or shared spellbooks but there is no limitation on how long you spend doing it.
I mostly bring it up to get some clarification on exactly how to handle the many, MANY options the optimizers will come up with to get the benefits of this stone while avoiding as much of the penalty as possible.And that is why I chimed in, cause the downside of a floating evil stone around your head shouldn't be taken lightly. If the optimizers think they can try to hide the evil stone by implanting it I don't think it will work.
Never underestimate what an optimizer can pull from the books to justify their actions. Many times they have surprised the most experienced GM's/Devs with their rules knowledge.
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... the downside of a floating evil stone around your head shouldn't be taken lightly. If the optimizers think they can try to hide the evil stone by implanting it I don't think it will work.
Boy, Kinrik! You know, if I were running a home campaign, and I gave the party such a manifestly evil-aligned power cookie, and a player character declared he wanted to surgically implant it in his body, I would try to keep a straight face and start looking up "hand of Vecna."
I'd bet there are priests of Lissala who would charge a reasonable price to ritually disfigure your character and implant the ioun stone as a freebie.
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Changing it's orbit, holding it still, moving it in reverse are all examples of proof that you CAN change where it is in relation to where it wants to be. A week+ meditating on just manipulating that single Ioun stone's COULD be enough to send it flying directly at an open wound on your arm and stay there (while maintaining it's bond to you) allowing you to make a few deft stitches in your flesh to hold it there. Since we don't know what the Heal check actually entails then any interpretation could be correct.
Where are you reading that the person can "knowingly" control the direction of a stone? The reaction to the users emotions can not be predicted.
The bond does not state you get gain full flying control of the stone.
We do know what the heal check entails, it is the surgical implantation of the stone. page 46: "Once the owner establishes this bond with the stone, he can have it implanted in his body, which takes 1 hour.
This requires a DC 25 Heal check (with a –5 penalty if the
owner is the one performing the surgery) and a DC 25
Knowledge (arcana) check to succeed."
This is not actually true and there are two mistakes in this statement.
First the boon is granted from activating the Ioun stone, but since this is an item granted to you then you can activate it whenever you want as long as you choose to keep the ioun stone during the scenario. If you decide to wait until the next day or the next scenario you should get the boon then it is an item you own that grants the boon not the chronicle sheet. (this question has been posted to the devs and they have not disallowed it yet)
Second, Implanting a Ioun Stone between scenarios only makes it an automatic success. If you choose to try and implant it during a scenario you just need to take sufficient time to fulfill the prereqs to qualify for the roll.
Remember you don't get your chronicle sheet until you the player state you have finished and are ready to take it. If you wish to kill the boss and sit on his throne for a week before heading back to town that is your right as a player. This time is usually when arcane casters copy spells from looted or shared spellbooks but there is no limitation on how long you spend doing it.
From the scenario text: "Each PC should be given the choice to use the ioun stone before receiving a Chronicle sheet for the scenario, which reveals that the item is cursed"
Directly from the boon: "Ocher Rhomboid Ioun Stone: You activated an ocher rhomboid ioun stone, an evil item that
radiates the associated aura, but gives you a bonus feat."
You do not get the boon unless you activate the stone before you receive the chronicle. It looks pretty clear to me.
Yes you can do all the checks in front of a GM, but I don't see how that is going to make a difference on anything.
I am not going to comment much on the rest, and just say I don't agree.
This is why I was going to have this discussion when I met up you again. :P
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Changing it's orbit, holding it still, moving it in reverse are all examples of proof that you CAN change where it is in relation to where it wants to be. A week+ meditating on just manipulating that single Ioun stone's COULD be enough to send it flying directly at an open wound on your arm and stay there (while maintaining it's bond to you) allowing you to make a few deft stitches in your flesh to hold it there. Since we don't know what the Heal check actually entails then any interpretation could be correct.Where are you reading that the person can "knowingly" control the direction of a stone? The reaction to the users emotions can not be predicted.
The bond does not state you get gain full flying control of the stone.
We do know what the heal check entails, it is the surgical implantation of the stone. page 46: "Once the owner establishes this bond with the stone, he can have it implanted in his body, which takes 1 hour.
This requires a DC 25 Heal check (with a –5 penalty if the
owner is the one performing the surgery) and a DC 25
Knowledge (arcana) check to succeed."...This is not actually true and there are two mistakes in this statement.
First the boon is granted from activating the Ioun stone, but since this is an item granted to you then you can activate it whenever you want as long as you choose to keep the ioun stone during the scenario. If you decide to wait until the next day or the next scenario you should get the boon then it is an item you own that grants the boon not the chronicle sheet. (this question has been posted to the devs and they have not disallowed it yet)
Second, Implanting a Ioun Stone between scenarios only makes it an automatic success. If you choose to try and implant it during a scenario you just need to take sufficient time to fulfill the prereqs to qualify for the roll.
Remember you don't get your chronicle sheet until you the player state you have finished and are ready to take it. If
You may want to go back and re-read what you just posted and look at the Dev posts currently on this item.
From the scenario text: "Each PC should be given the choice to use the ioun stone before receiving a Chronicle sheet for the scenario, which reveals that the item is cursed"
This line is for the GM, it's so they can see who uses the item and gets cursed before they get the sheet saying that this item is cursed. It doesn't say that if they don't use the item right now they can never use it. (This part is personally irrelevant since our spellcraft check was high enough to determine what it did and that it was cursed when found it).
Remember it's an ITEM, you can activate it anytime you want and as often as you want.Directly from the boon: "Ocher Rhomboid Ioun Stone: You activated an ocher rhomboid ioun stone, an evil item that
radiates the associated aura, but gives you a bonus feat."
The boon itself states just that when you activated it (doesn't say when you activated it, just that at some point in time you did) you receive a Bonus feat.
Now, unless there is some text somewhere in the module that states you HAVE to use the item during this scenario to get this feat (I don't know I don't own the module yet) then you are reading more into the boon then the text states.
As for the implantation going back and forth on this point is really unimportant since we are really only talking about saving about 650 GP (the cost of a second atonement spell and a remove curse spell). It's really not that important (I've spent more then that in game on alcohol)
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Yes it is an item, so all you need to do to get the item is beat the guy that carries it. Now also remember it is cursed, so you can't just put it on and off willy nilly. You have to have the curse removed before you can take it off.
And yes it doesn't mean much cost wise. 650gp difference.
I'll look at the thread on this scenario for more about the item and such. I hadn't planned to since I have no plans of ever running this, or scheduling it again. (unless specifically asked)
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A few questions in a similar vein regarding this:
1 - Would a ring of mind shielding affect the "aura" given out by the ioun stone? I know that the *item* has the aura, not the character (post-atonement, that is), but as the item is in the character's possession, I'm not sure how that would work.
2 - Same question as above, but regarding the spell/potion undetectable alignment.
3 - Same question again, but regarding a class ability to hide one's alignment (infiltrator inquisitor, for example).
Thanks very much!
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This spell removes the burden of misdeeds from the subject. The creature seeking atonement must be truly repentant and desirous of setting right its misdeeds. If the atoning creature committed the evil act unwittingly or under some form of compulsion, atonement operates normally at no cost to you. However, in the case of a creature atoning for deliberate misdeeds, you must intercede with your deity (requiring you to expend 2,500 gp in rare incense and offerings.
Don't these bolded sections come into play here?
Using the ioun stone is a deliberate misdeed, so +2500gp for the atonement. That's the easy part.
But atonement won't work at all if you were just doing it to gain power and still intend to keep the power afterwards? That's hardly being truly repentant - that's an easy loophole!
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This spell removes the burden of misdeeds from the subject. The creature seeking atonement must be truly repentant and desirous of setting right its misdeeds. If the atoning creature committed the evil act unwittingly or under some form of compulsion, atonement operates normally at no cost to you. However, in the case of a creature atoning for deliberate misdeeds, you must intercede with your deity (requiring you to expend 2,500 gp in rare incense and offerings.Don't these bolded sections come into play here?
Using the ioun stone is a deliberate misdeed, so +2500gp for the atonement. That's the easy part.
But atonement won't work at all if you were just doing it to gain power and still intend to keep the power afterwards? That's hardly being truly repentant - that's an easy loophole!
I like this... a lot.
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My issue above didn't really get answered, and it turns out that paying for atonement with prestige is only 2 prestige (a 750gp value) so long as you don't lose class features. Is paying for atonement with prestige broken?
That aside, let's assume the players don't mind paying a measly 2 prestige (or even 2500gp + spellcasting service costs, which is still amazing) to get their boon and don't care about the curse, since the power is amazing.
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My character got this thing. I purposely did not get the atonement (he only went to CN) because of the uneasyness that I had about it. To atone for it and still have the item is... Cheesy.
I also play it so that the thing never leaves orbit, and clacks with other stones (Particularly when I use the Ioun Torch) when they are used. He has a hard time sleeping because the thing keeps hitting his pillow.
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A good review
I'm sorry you didn't care much for the scenario. Thanks for writing a review, though. The Refuge of Time title was a play on the refuge tokens the PCs are tasked to find. I'm pleased to read that the scenario played in the allotted 4-5 hour slot.
- In my manuscript turnover the briefing was supposed to be delivered in character by an NPC, but he got cut from the scenario and replaced with a letter. I agree that a handout would have been a great addition. When I GM this, I have the question answerer simply hand the PCs the letter so that they can ask simple questions if they are not experienced players.
- The angel encounter was designed to be a combat for folks who like combat and to be a social encounter for folks who like social encounters. I intentionally placed an extremely high DC to sort them out. Yes, GMs forbidding PCs from re-equipping their magic items after the angel encounter are cruel. I am surprised this happens as often as I hear about it.
- There are 5 NPCs in Area 2: Jeor, Wattlee, and three Shoanti. All three Shoanti behave similarly.
- I, too, was disappointed when I read the final version of Emketta's scaling. However, I have come to believe that the developer made a good change considering that if the PCs go the right way and destroy the minion before this fight, they will have used more game time to do so. Having this fight be slightly easier should help make up for the increased time and the scenario could still be run in the 4-5 hour slot.
When writing the description of this room I wanted to convey what it once was, but not have any obstacles in the way of the mounted rider. I purposely left off any furniture decorations on my map turn-in, but the final (beautiful) version included furniture. I was worried that GMs might rule difficult terrain and it appears some have :( Also note that at subtier 10—11, the phantom mount can air walk.
- I'd like to hear more about Naroth's tactics and why they aren't working. In my experience solid fog shuts down many PCs, giving the caster time to summon allies. I recommend using quickened acid arrow on a caster type to force concentration checks to cast each round or waste some kind of action to remove the acid. The minions in my turnover were 6th level slothspawn clerics each channelling negative energy twice a round for 3d6 at DC 21 selecting out those on their side. Again, the developer made a wise change and now they are easier to handle.
- I'm glad you like the Taldan faction mission and the angel encounter in theory.
- Regarding the boon and the ioun stone: I was surprised when I saw that show up in the scenario. I'd love to be able to answer the many questions floating around about it, but I have no better insight as to how it is supposed to work than anyone else.
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Thanks for the reply Steve, golden perspective.
- I just did the maths in my head for how you could get a diplomacy check that high, and it can work - if you have a maxed out diplomacy, high charisma, and the whole party aiding, and some luck with the dice. I think the problem is that without a party face, you're in trouble no matter what.
- I misunderstood the 5 people in the entry hall, but if you re-read it, it is very easy to miss. Traveling on the outskirts, the 2 talkers fell victim to the charm. At the foothills, he pressed 3 Shoanti into his service (with another charm? or are they actually his followers? or what are their motivations?). Presumably, they're also charmed since they are "still under the effects of the enchantments", but one has a telepathic bond and the other "two" are "no longer under the effects of the spell". Which spell? Were they under telepathic bonds as well? Or if they were charmed, shouldn't they have pre-written personalities like Jeor and Wattlee? Or... are the "remaining two" actually Jeor and Wattlee, who are Shoanti? Why would the 3 Shoanti behave similarly if they're not under the effects of the "spell"?
- Having Jeor and Wattlee pointing out the direction Naroth traveled actually threw me, because it seemed there was no reason (besides curiosity) for the characters to go to where he initially went, rather than to go straight for him. I pointed them to the Flagellation Room and them "forget" the rest unless the characters pressed them to find out more, as a result of the after-effects of the enchantment (which felt reasonable since they don't know why they agreed to be there). I'm not sure if this is intended to be a ruse.
- I ruled the pews as difficult terrain, and even if I didn't, they'd still be furniture blocking a charge. I just had a look over it again and you're right about air walk, although that's seriously hidden away. The graveknight's phantom mount is based on the spell phantom steed, which changes depending on the caster's level, which makes you have to go back and double check the graveknight's CR.
- Solid fog is a problem because Naroth can't see any targets. He can use it to create summons, but can he target squares within the fog that he can't see? And if they're not summoned outside the fog, then the summons can't see the PCs to target them (or are they meant to be stationary until they can?). I didn't know acid arrow could be used to disrupt a spellcaster like that, though it makes sense now that I think about it. The tactics should have been specific - it just says to cast it "at a PC", so I thought the intent was damage, not disruption (another reviewer said something similar). In my game, the fog got blown away by the spellcaster, so this would've been another big difference if he'd failed to cast it.
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Just GMed this for the group with Paladin for 4th player, Angel was ran diplomatic style but 2 PC's had the evil tattoo from an earlier scenario from Season4 & other player worship Razmir(spelling correct?).
Failed diplomacy but I (Angel) did offered the players if they could remove the tattoos they could enter. (Or something to that effect) One of the pcs did say something along lined of willing to do dmg to remove tattoo,but I (gm) didn't think that was ok. Is the Angel offer to give up the evil tattoo to let them pass a valid one?
May have other questions Re the scenario & actions made
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The "worshiper" of Razmir is fine (as long as he isn't lying to the Angel) as the Angel doesn't really care what deity you worship. Not to mention, Razmir isn't really a deity and doesn't actually grant any spells.
Convincing the Angel to let you in is supposed to require both a Diplomacy check and removing all your magic items/auras. Which would include the tattoos. So once they failed the diplomacy check they really need to resort to fighting or somehow sneaking past the Angel. However once you gave them the option, then yes, they would have to get rid of the tattoos. The three ways of removing magical tattoos are: dispel magic, erase (both of which require a CL check vs the tattoo's CL of 3), or doing 2 points of damage per caster level (so 6 in this case) using a sharp instrument, acid, or fire applied directly to the tattoo. All of these will permanently destroy the tattoo.
Remember that the Angel does not have detect magic so unless the players tell it that they have a magical tattoo it won't know. (Though it does cast discern lies and ask them point blank if they have removed all magical items and auras.)
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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I GMed this yesterday, we were a bit confused about what the costs were, regarding PP.
A Paladin activated it. He clearly needs 8 PP to atone, as specified by the Field Guide.
A Druid activated it. My reasoning was he needs the 8 PP as well, but Atonement reads as following:
Restore Cleric or Druid Spell Powers: A cleric or druid who has lost the ability to cast spells by incurring the anger of her deity may regain that ability by seeking atonement from another cleric of the same deity or another druid. If the transgression was intentional, the casting cleric must expend 2,500 gp in rare incense and offerings for her god's intercession.
The Druid in Question is a worshiper of Ghlaunder, who is CE. He is CN, falling to CE. His reasoning is, he never incurred the wrath of his deity, so he only needs the cheapest option (2 PP). Does the Field Guide trump the spell description, or not? And is the 2500 GP included in the 8 PP cost, or do you need to pay that in addition to the 8 PP?
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A druid who ceases to revere nature, changes to a prohibited alignment, or teaches the Druidic language to a nondruid loses all spells and druid abilities
He lost the ability to cast spells when he became a prohibited alignment. To restore druid spell powers he will need to spend 3,000 gold (guild guide table 5-2) or 8PP (5-4).