Goblin Squad Member
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Many many players are not always available for grouping. Work demands, small children at home, many legitimate reasons can require our ability to turn to them at a moment's notice. This is a hardship for any group you are adventuring with. Others of us work odd hours and may have difficulty finding a group to adventure with. Too, it is the nature of some classes to work solo or as a duo: Rogues and Rangers come to mind stalking their quarry silently doesn't fit well with the company of noisy clerics and fighters or absent minded bumbling wizards.
Yet the world will be a harrowing place for those who walk alone. We are warned 'Don't do that!' when soloing is brought up.
One would think it wouldn't be necessary to require such dependency.
So my thought is to provide some types of activity which can be profitably soloed. The careful hunter should not invariably find himself beset with hordes of goblins. Lynx should not only come in six-packs.
Have you any thoughts or preferences with regard to the availability of solo adventuring?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They mentioned Ranger/Druid is possibly fairly survival/wilderness prepared. I imagine a useful bunch of skills in there for scouting etc.
But I think ideally it SHOULD be dangerous and difficult for solo, so the players that want to solo, learn how to overcome this steeper challenge and additionally that it always remains a low frequency choice to do so - because it's so dangerous in the wilderness by yourself.
If you want a heart-pumping challenge and find the skills to do it: You might be able to create a really interesting play-style for yourself?
That's how I see it. I think the ability not so much to be able to take on and kill mobs all by oneself as the ability to move and avoid dangers and escape bad or worsening odds in a combat. Such a skill set would tie-in with prospecting and exploring maps for resources and trading such info.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There should alway be some areas that are soloable, usually it's some part of the wilderness that is sparsely populated, or sometimes even parts of a dungeon (but not the whole dungeon)
There should always be some solo adventuring content. But as always, the really exciting stuff is for teams.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
It would depend on your skill set, but if you're set up for wilderness survival then you should be able to make profit selling furs, meat, herbs, and other easily craftable items. Of course, the greater the challenge, the greater the reward but you wouldn't have to share.
Survival skills for solo play in a city would include thievery and assassination. There will also be your entrepreneurs and politicians as well but that would be a different skill set.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I wonder how stealth will work? Will it be a 'skill', or will the game engine only render you if the opponent's perception beats your stealth.
If the latter is the case I can see a race to the top of the stealth/perception trees really quickly....it will be a very valuable skill for thieves, assassins, rangers, etc. But if you don't build in that kind of mechanic, a lot of those roles lose some of their appeal when you are simply using a weakly disguised 'invisibility' skill for 10 seconds.
I'm in favor of a contest-based stealth skill system, but make environmental factors very strong in the equation. Moving should be (like in F2F gaming)a huge negative to stealth. Once someone locks onto you it should be very difficult to re-stealth unless you can break LOS first, etc.
I bring this up because it has such an impact on solo play. As Being said, moving stealthily through the woods is a very druid/ranger thing. If stealth is simply a combat mechanic then it becomes a lot less useful for those roles.
EDIT: After I wrote this I thought "I'm sure this has been discussed before." After a year of idleness, of course, it has. Here is Ryan's comment on the very topic:
Remember:
If your client knows where my character is, even if your client is told not to show you, enough people will cheat that being hidden is meaningless - and in fact the non-cheaters then play at a significant disadvantage.
Reasons your client might need to know where my character is:
* I have magical effects on me that affect you.
* You have magical effects on you that affect me.
* You run in to me and collide (or vice-versa).
* A pet you control can sense me (blindsight, scent, tremorsense, etc.)Even stranger case: If there is a 3rd party involved who can see me, then that information can be passed to you and you will be able to know where I am as well. So being "hidden" needs to apply to every potential observer in the space, not just a subset.
You would have to know when I opened a door or triggered a trap, or attacked or was attacked by a PvE entity; all of which reveal my location.
In general, being "hidden" is an all-or-nothing proposition, where the server does not communicate any information about my position to your client, period. And when my "hidden" state ends, every client can access that information. Thus, as a game mechanic, its less than ideal and doesn't work the way people wish it would.
Oh well, so much for that.
Here's the thread for the curious. Worth the read as Ryan talks about the problem of key packet hacks in MMOs as the reason we can't have better stealth.Here is Ryan's ending comment on the hack programs:
Oh - you're not using these tools? That sucks, because the people you're playing against are and that gives them an advantage you don't have.
A plague on evil hackers and all their progeny!
Curious-Stealth-Mechanics|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I wonder how stealth will work? Will it be a 'skill', or will the game engine only render you if the opponent's perception beats your stealth.
If the latter is the case I can see a race to the top of the stealth/perception trees really quickly....it will be a very valuable skill for thieves, assassins, rangers, etc. But if you don't build in that kind of mechanic, a lot of those roles lose some of their appeal when you are simply using a weakly disguised 'invisibility' skill for 10 seconds.
I'm in favor of a contest-based stealth skill system, but make environmental factors very strong in the equation. Moving should be (like in F2F gaming)a huge negative to stealth. Once someone locks onto you it should be very difficult to re-stealth unless you can break LOS first, etc.
I bring this up because it has such an impact on solo play. As Being said, moving stealthily through the woods is a very druid/ranger thing. If stealth is simply a combat mechanic then it becomes a lot less useful for those roles.
Heh, I just imagined this scenario where a solo druid player is spotted by some hostile players and he like runs for the tree lines, breaks LoS and transform into a forest animal and like blends in with a flock before the bandits can re-establish LoS on him again.
Would be really cool to be able to see something like that. It would require the game to not have nametags, or maybe just remove or change them for people who are disguised or shapeshifted. Unless, of course, the other player has the ability or appropriate amount of ranks in a skill to be be able to see through the deception.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Being, great topic to bring up. I at times just like to go about on my own and simply do simple tasks. Other times like to go as a group.
Yep, have name tags replaced with trivial labels when in disguise mode.
Ooo, I hope they include tree travel for the druids, and other interesting spells.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Could we eliminate name tags all-together? I mean the float above the head things? Or maybe set it up so that you and a person had to 'friend' each other for the name tags to be perma-float?
I'm sure there are a million reasons this won't work...but name tags cause a lot of issues and I'm not convinced they are worth the trouble. I really don't care that some stranger named his character "Atoon Forme"..the only things I care about are the things I shouldn't know at a glance anyway: Friend/Enemy, Relative Strength, Organizational Affliation, Alignment.
I do care about my friends, so maybe only your friends are identified with a tag.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There is always going to be the fact that groups will generally overwhelm solo players in PVP. That soloers will simply not have the strength to enjoy some types of content.
That being said I hope this game doesn't make it so every type of content requires working in a group. Even players that belong to large organizations are sometimes just going to want to go exploring and doing things on their own. And that needs to be an option.
I hope this functions like most other games where you can solo most of the time but grouping up gives you access to the coolest content.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There is always going to be the fact that groups will generally overwhelm solo players in PVP. That soloers will simply not have the strength to enjoy some types of content.
That being said I hope this game doesn't make it so every type of content requires working in a group. Even players that belong to large organizations are sometimes just going to want to go exploring and doing things on their own. And that needs to be an option.
I hope this functions like most other games where you can solo most of the time but grouping up gives you access to the coolest content.
Considering the fact that most of the content will be player made/generated I think it's safe to say that there'll be enough cool content to go around for both solo players and group players. From what I gather there won't be any (or at least very few) "raids" in PfO so the "endgame" is what we, the players, make of it.
For example, while it may be more dangerous to travel alone due to bandits it also has the benefit of being more stealthy.
Since I think many solo players will have to focus on survival and stealth skills I can see scenarios happening where people like merchants hire solo players to transport or smuggle smaller but valuable items quickly and quietly from one town to another.
While that alone might not sound all that much fun I personally think that the fact that there will probably be bandits in the areas you go through and, if the stakes are higher, maybe even thieves or bounty hunters who either are out to take the item for themselves or might be hired by some third party that managed to hear about the smuggling taking place.
This is just an example of how I think solo gameplay could be in PfO and something I thought could be pretty cool.
Unless you take solo to mean no player interaction at all, of course.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
From KS2 Update 7 - Can I play the game Solo? (video transcript):
Can I play the game Solo
[laughing] You shouldn't do that, you're going to die.
Could we eliminate name tags all-together? I mean the float above the head things? Or maybe set it up so that you and a person had to 'friend' each other for the name tags to be perma-float?
I'm sure there are a million reasons this won't work...but name tags cause a lot of issues and I'm not convinced they are worth the trouble. I really don't care that some stranger named his character "Atoon Forme"..the only things I care about are the things I shouldn't know at a glance anyway: Friend/Enemy, Relative Strength, Organizational Affliation, Alignment.
I do care about my friends, so maybe only your friends are identified with a tag.
I'd like the option to turn off name tags entirely; in WoW, I only have them on for NPCs (for ease of finding them), but prefer not to see big floaty letters over other players' heads.
Maybe a WoW-like option menu, ranging from "all name tags on" to "all name tags off" with different combinations of on/off in between.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Right. I think my point was more toward ensuring it is practical to solo than trying to make it easy to solo.
I don't know, I'm interested in exploring this as well, but you need to give a more concrete example of what you are suggesting?
To me solo = choosing to take on more risk, if adventuring. Is taking on more risk "practical"? I don't know but it could be a lot of fun if it's dangerous yet you gain player skill and tactics (in-game experience) to be able to do it successfully.
The niche I can see for solo or small party in "Adventuring Content" is the reaction of PvE which might be "less drawn/alerted" by a smaller band of players ("move silently") ie it reduces number of PvE combat encounters frequency? Therefore if the aim is to find a dungeon or node or such, that would increase the efficiency and reduce the interruptions. Maybe that is how it would work?
The take-home message however, is that groups are ncessary. Anything that is required for solo, will likewise be maybe not just required but necessary/indispensible to everyone - is the catch I am circling with what might be practically done solo; if you follow me?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I really want to be able to solo explore without a group. While I accept that the game is going to be PvP hazards, and in PvP Solo will be easilly outclassed by any group, I want to be able to enjoy the game without jumping into a pug if my friends are not online.
One of my planned characters will be a druid, and between animal companion and summon spells, i'll have my own party with pets. But I don't want to be forced into that role if I want to play my monk.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Basically I think I would start by determining how 'social' the environment is depending on the party size.
For illustration consider the tendency in most themepark MMOs to draw aggro from a large number of hostiles even if the target is hit at long range, as from a longbow, and not very close to the rest. If I were a careful skilled ranger hunting with longbow and came upon a well-scattered pack of prey I'd like to be able to peel one of them off to solo instead of pulling a dozen who could rip me to shreds with no hope of survival.
If I were in a party of six we could handle the whole pack. Alone I should have a way to usually bite off only what I could chew.
This could be handled systemically by having a variable in the sociability linking for the pack that would key off my skill relative to my target and the number in my party.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
What they should do is make numbers be a serious advantage/disadvantage (depending on if you have them). So a single fighter facing 3+ foes is going to have a serious problem and likely die. This goes hand in hand with how they want lower level players in numbers to be able to take on higher level players. Then they can handle difficulty easily with spawn rate/spawn location, which I believe they have already discussed doing. The solo player is certainly viable and will just need to make sure he tries to find the lower spawn areas so as not to be overwhelmed. While a group will have more options and be able to travel into densely populated monster territory. Or the group can choose to take on above level foes because they will have the numbers advantage. This solution makes grouping attractive but certainly not necessary.
I really dislike how games bump all area mobs to ridiculous stats and label the area "group content". That forces them to make different content suitable for solo/3-man/6-man/12-man/24-man etc for every stage of the game! The same thing can be accomplished with a system I described above.. but a level 10 soloable area may be doable with a party of 4 level 6 characters.. highly reusable content.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Well, I think the question is, how much of the content do you feel should be soloable? At what percentage does making the game soloable cut down on the need for player interaction? I believe they've mentioned that areas around NPC settlements should be relatively safe for solo players. As you gain power and equipment, that area should expand somewhat (subject to the inherent and persistant danger of PVP). The majority of wilderness content is unlikely to be soloable, as that breeds a loner mindset in the playerbase and hampers player interaction.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Well, I think the question is, how much of the content do you feel should be soloable? At what percentage does making the game soloable cut down on the need for player interaction? I believe they've mentioned that areas around NPC settlements should be relatively safe for solo players. As you gain power and equipment, that area should expand somewhat (subject to the inherent and persistant danger of PVP). The majority of wilderness content is unlikely to be soloable, as that breeds a loner mindset in the playerbase and hampers player interaction.
That's the thing.. with the system I described above solo vs. group content does not really need to be much of a consideration. Level 10 3-player group content is level 14 solo content and level 6 24-player content. Areas of high spawn rates will always be dangerous to the solo player and likely deemed by the players as group-only areas. The spawn rates and density are dynamic based on area actions. Therefore how much of the world is or isn't solo-able will change over time. There would of course be areas with high spawn rates and high level mobs that would mean it's only suitable for a large group of high-level players.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I enjoy solo playing every once in awhile. Either because I can't find a group or I'm feeling a bit unsocial (happens more than I would like). But I enjoy the challenge of being a solitary figure in the wilds or that dungeon I came across.
If I run into something too much for me to handle, like those four guys that want to PvP me. I'll just turn tail and run, maybe stopping a moment to shoot them with my bow, as I head for that cliff I noticed earlier. Then make a fantastic jump across the ravine, leaving the four guys chasing me as I taunt them while I disappear in the sunset. :P
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
From KS2 Update 7 - Can I play the game Solo? (video transcript):
Can I play the game Solo
[laughing] You shouldn't do that, you're going to die.
I quoted this mostly because it really amuses me.
If you watch the rest of the video, or read the transcript, you'll see that there will be things to do while solo.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I think mainly what he is laughing at is the idea of soloing in terms of never joining a company. I think for everyone looking to live outside the immediate area around the starter towns joining a company will be a must. And there is really no reason not to. Plenty of companies out there are willing to accept casual players.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I think as far as soloing goes its all about using your head like back in UO before trammel be obserervant of your surroundings the smiling man with the funny hat will probably try to kill you in the middle of no where with no witnesses to his crime and he probably has a friend close by to help him take your gear. If you stumble across a goblin fort dont go knocking down the door. but there will probably be a couple outside the fort that would be challenging enough for you on your own. the world is supposed to change so there should be situations where soloing is not only possible but fun and rewarding so long as you dont go looking for treasure in dragon caves or where your gold leafed armor with precious jewels while you stroll shady locations alone. but even if you use common sense and are aware of your enviroment you will die alot but that ever present danger is part of the rush for exploring a dangerous world alone. and when your tired of dying and have lost all your wealth you can just do things with other people to make up for all that lost gear that bandits and goblins have taken from your corpse
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
let people solo if they want. no reason not too as long as you cant solo great wyrms, beholders...etc.
that orc camp might take longer to take out and you have to be more careful, but I dont see a reason why a solo person couldnt wait for patrols to take out 1,2 orcs at a time until the camp is dead.
In regards to soloing i think that GW may end up having to tweet some of what we know about monsters to accommodate. Most higher CR creatures are built to be taken on by a group of adventurers by game design.
No reason a very powerful adventurer couldnt take out an adult dragon (CR 14) by themselves.
I think the way skill training in this game helps a lot with this problem. In traditional games having a level 20 fighter being able to take out what a group of level 14s can would pose a problem to the leveling of characters. In PfO since a creatures level is not tied to experience but to what resources you can earn from those critters, you dont have to worry about a higher level character soloing content below him.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
It's been stated that the power level of characters will range from PnP level 6 to 10 (or 12, depending on the source of the dev comment). I take this to mean that you could maybe solo a CR 8 creature at max power level, but that anything higher than that you'll need a group.
I have a weird work schedule so I'll probably solo half or more of the time. I'm all for soloing being viable but even if it's not I'll still do it and I'll find a way, even if it's just sitting in town crafting or doing some harvesting just outside the settlement.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I have a weird work schedule so I'll probably solo half or more of the time. I'm all for soloing being viable but even if it's not I'll still do it and I'll find a way, even if it's just sitting in town crafting or doing some harvesting just outside the settlement.
This.
With work and children I realized that I can manage more short time sessions to play than hours-long session (usually needed to find a group and do dungeons/events/adventures).
Stealth is probably a must for soloing, and a good hide out, and good scouting skills and survival. Sounds like a ranger :).
Ranger and druid were specifically mentioned by Ryan as being "solo-y", yes. I suspect it's a combination of their wilderness-oriented skillset and the ability of both to pick up animal companions.
Hubby and I plan to do a two-ranger or ranger/druid pair for times when guildmates aren't available, so we'll see how well that works.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I also hope that there isn't too big a spread in power level that a single character can kill dragons as I would think that would mean you will never need many people to kill dragons or that single characters can kill many players with ease.let people solo if they want. no reason not too as long as you cant solo great wyrms, beholders...etc.
that orc camp might take longer to take out and you have to be more careful, but I dont see a reason why a solo person couldnt wait for patrols to take out 1,2 orcs at a time until the camp is dead.
In regards to soloing i think that GW may end up having to tweet some of what we know about monsters to accommodate. Most higher CR creatures are built to be taken on by a group of adventurers by game design.
No reason a very powerful adventurer couldnt take out an adult dragon (CR 14) by themselves.
I think the way skill training in this game helps a lot with this problem. In traditional games having a level 20 fighter being able to take out what a group of level 14s can would pose a problem to the leveling of characters. In PfO since a creatures level is not tied to experience but to what resources you can earn from those critters, you dont have to worry about a higher level character soloing content below him.
In PnP level 20 characters are ludicrously powerful. Defeat a Dragon? Some level 20 characters can become one. Its the reason many campaigns stop at level 15 or 16.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Fluff Master and Uthreth Baelcoressitas: While not necessarily a counterargument to your points but I thought it would be useful to mention it.
The usual reason to join a player collective like guild, alliance or chartered company is to have a number of people you can group with for the purpose of raiding, running a dungeon or finishing a hard quest. So usually people who can only be online at weird times or only for short periods of time find it nonsensical to join a player collective as the usual interactions require the players to be in the same place at the same time.
Sandbox MMOs usually have a wide range of interaction variants that can not be quite described as solo activities but do not requite the other party to be online at the same time.
For example I as a crafter would have access to crafting facilities as part of a settlement that i could probably not afford myself and in turn i would provide equipment to the other members of the guild or help build stuff in the settlement. Another example would be that early in the morning a guy who can be online only in the morning helps escort a caravan or resources to the settlement or slears the way of the caravan or monster beforhand. During the day I can be online for only 15 minutes at a time so I refine those resources for the guy who produces equipment but only can be online late at night so he has the needed stuff waiting for him when he comes online.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I am also highly interested in the stealth mechanic. Seems that nearly every solo character will need at least some form of it. I would love to not have nameplates unless on friends list. I hate the damn things as it takes away so much. In a sandbox you should have to judge a person from the actions you see. Not the nameplate they have or if they show up red on your radar. Hell there should be no radar unless your talking a compass for "Know Direction" or maybe "track". I don't mind maps but if no radar in game it makes stealth more skill based. A knight in plate could hide behind a huge boulder and step out and whack someone they heard coming. Suddenly move silently becomes important. Also make any chat show up in a bubble above people heads. This means people couldn't barrens chat when stalking prey or else their yapping would give them away. Maybe a little flash on the map in their direction also if within a certain range. Have the flash be a switch so you could turn it off in town.
The druid trackless step could work against the rangers "track" ability. The ranger has put in "X" amount into tracking. The Druid would have to have at least "X" amount to stop from being found by the rangers track ability. Have track show an arrow towards the prey that gets more accurate with it's level and distance to target. So a Ranger bandit pulls the Druid out of fast travel. The ranger fires up his track ability and find nothing because the druid has more in trackless step. Now same ranger pulls a Cleric out of fast travel and the compass points in a general area towards the Cleric.
In a woods environment certain roles will have an advantage in soloing. The Druid and Ranger should be pretty dang good because of the utility both have in the SRD. Now roles like the Cleric have an advantage in soloing small camps of NPCs and lairs. Heavy armor, decent weapons, and healing spells are the perfect soloing class in many games. Here you could do the same with a cleric but you are going to have to limit yourself to some of the more settled areas or at least make nice with the guild that runs that area. I can definitely see some guilds allowing people to work there area for a cut of profits, rent, or defense agreements . Same as in any other sandbox.
I agree there needs to be some randomness to NPC social behavior. I hate when everything is linked for the only reason to make something harder. This game we are not doing the level treadmill so no reason to things be hard for the sake of slowing down leveling. Make it so animals act a bit like there real world counterparts. Like how most predators are more aggressive at dusk and dawn, or how solo wolves will flee more than fight and even in small packs will leave people alone unless starving. I didn't know about the level range. I like that soloing CR8 is going to be about the best I can hope for. ( list http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monstersByCR.html ) Hopefully you get the full loot where a party would need to split it up.
Guess my post really isn't about soloing but things I hope to see. Still I think that a solo woodsman character is going to be pretty damn fun. Instead of fighting the dragon and saving the world I just want to go out and harvest some rare mats, kill the occasion monster, and know where everything is in my operating area. I wont be truely solo as I plan on being an active member in a guild. It's just I enjoy being more a scout than a foot soldier.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'd like the option to turn off name tags entirely; in WoW, I only have them on for NPCs (for ease of finding them), but prefer not to see big floaty letters over other players' heads.
Maybe a WoW-like option menu, ranging from "all name tags on" to "all name tags off" with different combinations of on/off in between.
this I like, no more immersion breaking nametags
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
As a representative of the archetypical Lone Wolf, soloing is a must. Forced grouping is just the sucks, it really is. Frankly, I don't like other people much, people are annoying. If you want to group with me, first you've got to be my friend. I like hanging out with friends, but even then I still gotta get away and do my own thing.
There is a name for this, it's called being an Introvert. You can learn more about them here.
That mostly talks about introverts in real life and in the work place, but for people like me that trait of finding socializing draining extends online as well. Particularly into MMOs.
People say things like, "Well, if you don't like socializing, then why are you playing an MMO?" to which I say, "Duh, because I like videogames and this game looks pretty freaking awesome." Also, it's nice to have the option to socialize and group there, even if I don't use it. Just don't make me use it.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would like to see a system where a solo character would have a smaller aggro radius, than that of a group. This would give some advantage to solo explorers or scouts, allowing them to pass through dangerous areas and able to pick their fights more often than not.
I hate to bring up EvE Online here, but it does have a mechanic like this. Smaller ships have a smaller detection radius than much larger ships. This impacts the amount of aggro and the distance of detection .
The same system could be used here, and then further modified by racial factors and equipment factors.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There is sense in your thought, Bluddwolf.
@Vancent I don't think it is antisocial to prefer liberty, to be independent of others. I very much enjoy the company of other people in group but I have a strong aversion to being dependent on others. It will be hard if soloing is really impractical.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One of the key things in many MMO's I believe on the topic. The arguement of "Getting a group takes to long", is a self fulfilled prophecy in many games.
In older games, on servers with negligably small populations (I'm talking the pre-EQ mmo's, where 400 on a server was considered popular), Soloing was usually much harder than grouping, generally by a factor of 10:1, Getting a group together, took 5-10 minutes tops, up loaded and ready to go, why so easy? because everyone playing is looking for a group.
Now lets hit the other end of the spectrum, perfect world or WoW pre-dungeon finder. Sign in... shout around town, beg, cry... stand around shouting again, ask guild again.... 3 hours later you get a group to go, and your main tank or healer suddenly realizes he has to go somewhere, start all over.
Why the difference... it's easy. When 90% of the game is reasonable solo, well 25% of players by default prefer that gameplay and are taken out of the pool of potential party mates, another 25% are equal opportunity, if you ask them they will go, but if not they'll quickly head out, another 25% vastly prefers grouping, but will still solo if it takes more than 30 minutes to get a group, then finally the 25% that does not like solo at all.
Myself I fall into that last 25%, and what frustrates me is almost every game currently coming out, caters so much to soloers, that either soloing is faster gains than partying (IE the gains from grouping are less than the losses from the XP + loot being split), or so close to the same that it's even... if you ignore the set-up time, which is through the roof because of the self fullfilling "nobody's looking for a group, because they think nobody's looking for a group"
IMO there are dozens and dozens of games catering to soloers, and I greatly hope PFO does not fall into the same category of games that errors on "ensuring soloers feel like they are accomplishing a-lot, as a consequence grouping is a rare special occasion".
IMO there is plenty of room for in-between, but one thing I've noticed in older MMO's and in DDO before they went crazy on dungeon scaling etc... If grouping is drastically more beneficial than soloing, group set-up time isn't an actual factor.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I think that overall like Being said there needs to be a balance. Enough content to solo (even if very difficult) and enough for groups to do.
However I will say this, I do not think that PfO should make an effort to make everything obtainable by someone who solos.
For example lets say making a weapon that is on par with a holy avenger. That weapon maybe takes the blood of a Great Wyrm. It should only be able to be gotten from great wyrms, and Great Wyrms being Great Wyrms should not be anywhere near soloable.
The solo player will be just out of luck obtaining the Blood of a Great Wyrm, BUT they might be able to obtain a dozen vials of Giants Blood to trade to a player for some Great Wyrm blood.
So while solo farming all the mats for a holy avenger is out of the question, maybe farming all the mats for an almost holy avenger is doable, or farming enough mats to trade for one is doable.
Just an FYI I am saying this as someone who works swing shift most of the time, so unless i happen to find a bunch of people who work the same as me I end up soloing in most games i play.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Onishi
Sometimes I want to go out and have a few drinks with my friends.
Sometimes I just want to drink alone.
Sometimes I want to watch a movie at home with my family.
Sometimes I will go to the movie theatre by myself.
I dont have anything against grouping, I just like to do my own thing sometimes. Also keep in mind we are to have real time exp training, so that wont really be a reason not to group. And for loot and story and missions, etc I usually save for group. If I am soloing, its more about exploration and challenging myself ( can I take on those 3 goblins at once? lets try it out *reckless fool mode on!)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I agree with Vacent and Bluddwolf in what they saying. I definitely prefer going solo, simply I can't stand when people do outright stupid action to endanger everyone, and/or increase the danger unnecessary. From UO and silly Spiral Knights, I usually end up getting killed far more frequent playing with others than when I do the same trip solo, actually hardly dying at all.
It has taken me over 2 years to find others to play with in a group, that don't do stupid stuff, when I feel like doing something with a group.
I believe if a character is level 20, it should be able to take out a dragon equivalent of the character's level.
I don't consider trading to be a form of grouping. you arrive at person to trade, offer or request to trade, trade items, then leave. All happens in less than 30 sec. It does not matter if trader is a player or NPC.
The nice thing about MMOs is not the socializing part, it is the ever changing world you roam in, where players actions can leave their mark on the world. Unlike dedicate offline solo games, where they really static. Start over, the world is the same as when you did it the first.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@DarkOne the Drow
Thats kinda funny. I actually solo to do the stupid stuff, so I dont endanger my group. In FFXI I would always stop by Vrtra (a level 95 undead wyrm)when out solo with my lvl 75 Ninja to "pet" it. I believe at last count the score was Me = 0, Vrtra = 42. LOL good times.
Though I do know what you mean about bad group experiences. I remember running some endgame just last year, and we were just having an abysmal time of it for a couple of weeks. I knew something was up with our healer. Finally he confessed to me that he would try to watch TV and fight at the same time........ Im thinking, is this guy for real?