RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor
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Magus is a one-hit wonder of sorts, it's amazingly good at dealing a lot of damage in bursts...
The Inquisitor is likely to have better saves and better defenses all around, and it's quite competent with regards to dishing out damage consistently, particularly after 5th level.
IMO Inquisitor.
Good Fort and Will save, can wear Medium Armor from the get-go with no penalty, Teamwork Feats give him a number of frontline bonuses (including using someone else' Reflex save, which is nice), Divine spells, and Judgements can grant DR and Energy Resistance among other things, which is also very nice.
Plus, he's still a good damage dealer.
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Magus is a one-hit wonder of sorts, it's amazingly good at dealing a lot of damage in bursts...
The Inquisitor is likely to have better saves and better defenses all around, and it's quite competent with regards to dishing out damage consistently, particularly after 5th level.
This is true with the baseline magus.
Archetypes can change this, sacrificing some casting ability for durability and sustained dpr.
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Pathfinder is not an MMO. High damage output does not ensure the "mob" will "aggro" you. Damage has nothing to do with tanking.
But, if given only the definition you quoted, I'd go with either Staff Magus or Preacher Inquisitor.
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You're going to have trouble keeping things looking at you if you're not punching them in the face hard enough.
Why would any reasonably intelligent enemy keep swinging at the tough Inquisitor with his shield and medium armor who isn't really hurting him, while the squishy spellcasters and ranged combatants sit comfortably back and murder him?
You want to be able to convince your target that you are the threat they shoulld try dealing with first, and there is no better way than clubbing them over the head with your weapon.
You're going to have trouble keeping things looking at you if you're not punching them in the face hard enough.
Why would any reasonably intelligent enemy keep swinging at the tough Inquisitor with his shield and medium armor who isn't really hurting him, while the squishy spellcasters and ranged combatants sit comfortably back and murder him?
You want to be able to convince your target that you are the threat they shoulld try dealing with first, and there is no better way than clubbing them over the head with your weapon.
Because the tough Inquisitor also knows exactly what you are and he has his Bane sighted in on you while he wails at you with his Earthbreaker/Greatsword/Other Bigass Weapon.
Also he has Compel Hostility and that one spell that makes someone attack them or they lose their turn basically.
You're going to have trouble keeping things looking at you if you're not punching them in the face hard enough.
Why would any reasonably intelligent enemy keep swinging at the tough Inquisitor with his shield and medium armor who isn't really hurting him, while the squishy spellcasters and ranged combatants sit comfortably back and murder him?
You want to be able to convince your target that you are the threat they shoulld try dealing with first, and there is no better way than clubbing them over the head with your weapon.
Because the tough Inquisitor also knows exactly what you are and he has his Bane sighted in on you while he wails at you with his Earthbreaker/Greatsword/Other Bigass Weapon.
Also he has that one spell that makes someone attack them or they lose their turn basically.
Because of this and the other job of a tank (which the OP expresses mechanically as damage output). It's really attention-getting and denial of mobility. Using feats like Step Up, Pin Down, Teleport Tactician, and Combat Patrol to lock down the ability for the enemy to get to his squishies.
But, again, that's MY definition of tanking, not the OP's. Which is why I offered up Preacher for "Defense" which is nice.
Although, Witch Hunter with Antagonize might as well have a "Taunt" button.
What I'm saying is though the Inquisitor is good at both slapping things around and taking damage, but the Magus is generally only good (though usually pretty darn good) at slapping things around.
Edit: Coward's Lament! That's the name of the spell I was thinking of.
Well, I think ALL can agree that Inquisitor makes a better tank than Magus, especially at the 5-10 Character level expressed above.
the magus gets medium armor at 7th level so more ac for the magus wooo. but you can always build a defensive magus through feats.
But at level 5 inquisitor would be better.
Don't forget, the Inquisitor can just nab the Heavy Armor Proficiency feat, and wear it without interrupting spellcasting.
Don't sell the Tifling Magus short... a Kensai can get to 28 AC by 4th level within the 1st round.
10 +4 (mage armor), +3 Int, +3 Dex, +2 Natural Armor (Feat), +4 (Shield), +1 (Ring of Protection), +1 (Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier)
I have not picked up my amulet of natural armor yet, and we are not taking mirror image and such into account.
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This is a very interesting approach, but why use a Wand of True Strike when the spell is the Magus spell list?
Number of spell slots. The big problem of the magus is blowing through all her spells in the first combat (and arcane pool points once she gets spell recall). With a wand you can do this all day long (or at least 50 times before you burn out your wand).
I do wish more Magus players would chime in regarding whether or not using spells like Mirror Image would be as helpful as having a high AC.
Yes/No. It depends on how smart the enemies are and how, how many attacks they have, and how long you expect combat to last. Smart enemies will use tactics to bypass mirror image (including just ignoring you and attacking someone else).
If you're up against a girallion or gug or something with a lot of attacks your mirror image is going to be blown away pretty quickly (one image gets destroyed even if the enemy misses by 5). However against a Vital Striking Furious Focus barbarian, the miss chance of mirror image can be the difference between life and death.
In general high AC will be better. If you're trying to "tank" the limitations of mirror image (including spell slots) make it less desirable as your primary choice (but you can certainly memorize one or two).
Inquisitors have more than one spell which can compell enemies to attack them, IIRC. And they have Magic Vestment and can nab Heavy Armor Proficiency with one feat. And still have great offense.
We got an Inquisitor in one group who can get his AC into the low thirties at level seven, which is pretty damn good at that point.
Inquisitors have more than one spell which can compell enemies to attack them, IIRC. And they have Magic Vestment and can nab Heavy Armor Proficiency with one feat. And still have great offense.
We got an Inquisitor in one group who can get his AC into the low thirties at level seven, which is pretty damn good at that point.
This is true...
BUT keep in mind that most of the Inquisitor's defense spells have a limited duration.. Magus can cast his defensive spells with this off hand as he attacks, that with a rod of quickness and a magus can have 2 short duration defensive spells up the 1st round of combat and still get a melee attack in.
spells like Displacement and Mirror Image are not as tangible numbers wise when comparing AC.. but you can become near impossible to hit with just those two spells up.
not counting shield, stoneskin (DR 10 win!), Greater Invisibility, or the Monstrous Physique spells(natural armor bonus, fly speed, and so on)
BTW, playing a strength based Magus :oP
Skirnir Magus also can get a very good AC going without having to rely on spells to start.
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Inquisitors have more than one spell which can compell enemies to attack them, IIRC. And they have Magic Vestment and can nab Heavy Armor Proficiency with one feat. And still have great offense.
We got an Inquisitor in one group who can get his AC into the low thirties at level seven, which is pretty damn good at that point.
I hit an AC of 32 at level 6, with mirror image as one of my three 2nd level spells. I should be able to hit 33 at 7th level as I upgrade my headband. I'll also be picking up weapon specialization at 7th level, increasing my sustained DPR.
Alternately, I could put off increasing my Int and raise my buffed AC to 34 via a Dusty Rose Prism and Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier.
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Eh, they're both fine choices. Though, i gotta go with Inquisitor on this one, since their judgments let them increase the amount of damage they dish out on top of their defensive ability. A magus might be able to hit harder, all in all, but they certainly won't be nearly as potent defensively as the far more versatile Inquisitor can be.
you could always make a magus/inquisitor and get the arcana that lets you cast inquisitor spells as magus touch spells (like cure spells on undead)
You could get bane and buffing up your own weapon at the same time?
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You ara susing a lot of money in that. 5000 in the jingasa and another 2000 with the ring. Besides the spells are of short duration and are more than half your 1st level spell losts and you jut have one lot for mirror image.Your idea do not really works.
It works if you play intelligently.
1. Bladebound Kensai is not purchasing armor or weapons. That frees up a lot of wealth for other items.
2. The Kensai will nearly always invest in Pearls of Power. I have two on my 6th level magus.
3. Resource management is important. You don't burn spells fighting mooks. You save your best spells for when you fight the toughest opponents. Mage armor lasts all day once you hit mid-level. Shield can typically last through 2 - 3 encounters at mid-level if the party moves quickly. Mirror Image is saved for when it is really needed.
Dex-based Magus (and Tiefling, the best dex-magus race, has a racial opton for bonus natural armor) with Crane Wing is pretty decent as a tank, though the feats required means this is a mid-level build. Magus can do significantly more damage, which means things die before they can attack more, and encourages them to go after the magus, since he's a big threat. Using Frigid Touch with a keen scimitar (magus can make it keen starting at level 5) provides fairly good odds of staggering a foe for 1 minute, vastly dropping the damage output of many monsters.
One nice thing higher level Inquisitors have is access to the Divine Interference feat. Which, when combined with some cheap 1st level pearls of power, is basically "negate one critical hit per foe per day." Pretty nice.
Don't sell the Tifling Magus short... a Kensai can get to 28 AC by 4th level within the 1st round.
10 +4 (mage armor), +3 Int, +3 Dex, +2 Natural Armor (Feat), +4 (Shield), +1 (Ring of Protection), +1 (Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier)
I have not picked up my amulet of natural armor yet, and we are not taking mirror image and such into account.
You ara susing a lot of money in that. 5000 in the jingasa and another 2000 with the ring. Besides the spells are of short duration and are more than half your 1st level spell losts and you jut have one lot for mirror image.
Your idea do not really works.
Umm,
Mage Armor is 1 hr/level friend..
Also that with dex and int alone I'm at 22 AC with 0 armor check penalty and full movement.
by 4th level.. you have 7k to spend, as a blade bound I never have to use money on a magic weapon. Heck I even have 2 pearls of power.. recall the shield.
BTW, that's also a 26 armor vs incorporeal without having to spend the crazy amount of gold on ghost touch enchant.
Magus can cast his defensive spells with this off hand as he attacks, that with a rod of quickness and a magus can have 2 short duration defensive spells up the 1st round of combat and still get a melee attack in.
A Magus using a Rod of Quickness and getting his melee attack, according to RAW, can not work. As the Magus must have a free hand for the complete round to be able to use spell combat.
Main hand - Weapon
Off Hand - Rod of quickness
No free hand = No Spell Combat.At least that is my understanding of the rules and how I've seen DMs play it.
Tiefling + tail = win
or Quick Draw ... you don't have to hold the rod, just touch it, thus it can be on a belt... you put a hand on the rod cast the spell.. draw your sword..
Game slants to offense. Put me in the magus camp.
for one fight: magus
for an adventuring day: inquisitor
Can you explain why you chose Goblin, bladebound, and what you mean about pumping his AC higher "at will"?
Goblin bladebound kensai. His saves will be slightly less than the inq, but his AC will be much higher and he can pump it at will, and your AC gets attacked far more often than you need to save. He also doesn't care about strength, so he doesn't need to dump wis, helping his will a bit. He also has much higher nova potential, and higher dpr in general.
+1 yea me too
Well, I'm not the poster, but I'll take a stab.
+4 dex, plus a big advantage for dropping down to tiny (boosts CMD), and gives a further +1 to hit and +2 ac.
With a finessable weapons going against touch AC, you're virtually never going to miss. Add an Int bonus to your AC. Mage Armor or mithril chain...?
tiny? goblins are small not tiny.
i really wish goblin wasnt a pc choice... too many goblin builds...its getting old like dervish dance magus's