RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Ad Astra games commented here
I'm not the person who banned it. I'm a (barely) one-star PFS GM...and I throw strange corner case ideas out in character construction threads, and Magical Knack (along with Reactive) is such a genuinely useful trait that everyone would take it if it were available.
(I've seen tables where 4 of 6 characters had Reactive...)
I don't know how common it is (since I play a lot of half elves, I take elvish reflexes frequently, same effect) but I'm curious, how prevelant is it? It's clearly 'half a feat' (Improved Initative) and I take it because I roll crapy and/or I want to throw my area effect spells while no one has had a chance to move into my line of fire. But how common is it?
I will admit I thought of a half elven rogue built around going first (Reactionary/Elvish reflexes, improved intiative, eldrich heritage for that little lizard familar to get a +12 before dex.) But that's just to get the looks from the table when I roll a 1 and say "I go on 13"
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I see it more than any other trait, I think, just because it's so useful to every single class. There are certain things I see more on individual classes (on a percentage basis), but this trait is by far the most common general trait in the games I GM. Nothing else even comes close.
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Ad Astra games commented here
I don't know how common it is (since I play a lot of half elves, I take elvish reflexes frequently, same effect) but I'm curious, how prevelant is it? It's clearly 'half a feat' (Improved Initative) and I take it because I roll crapy and/or I want to throw my area effect spells while no one has had a chance to move into my line of fire. But how common is it?
I will admit I thought of a half elven rogue built around going first (Reactionary/Elvish reflexes, improved intiative, eldrich heritage for that little lizard familar to get a +12 before dex.) But that's just to get the looks from the table when I roll a 1 and say "I go on 13"
I've taken it fairly often, though my more recent characters have been opting for Indomitable Faith and Observant. It depends on the class though. My spellcaster does have the initiative pumped up because getting haste off in a rush is very beneficial.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I've got quite a few PCs, and I only took it once. That was with my Eldritch Knight, who has levels of diviner wizard (another +3 init and can't be surprised) and also has Improved Initiative (total initiative mod is +12, IIRC). Consistently going first even when being ambushed is pretty nice. ;)
But aside from him, none of my characters have taken it.
I will admit I thought of a half elven rogue built around going first (Reactionary/Elvish reflexes, improved intiative, eldrich heritage for that little lizard familar to get a +12 before dex.) But that's just to get the looks from the table when I roll a 1 and say "I go on 13"
Just so you know, there is no point to both Reactionary & Elvish Reflexes if they are both Traits that give a a trait bonus to Initiative. Since it is a Trait bonus, it won't stack. Paizo specifically calls this out in the original Traits rules.
For the record, I have never taken a Trait to boost my Initiative on one of my characters, too many other things I want/need first.
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I have 6 characters I play actively. 3 of those 6 have Reactionary. To be fair though, 2 of those are spellcasters that benefit greatly from it (wizard conjurer/bloatmage, so I can start summoning early, and a buff-specialized sorcerer so I can buff before people run in). The last one is a ninja that also likes to go first to get people flat-footed and get sneak attack damage in.
I only take the trait when it fits the build (all these characters have at least +7 initiative), not just because there was "nothing better" to take.
I will admit I thought of a half elven rogue built around going first (Reactionary/Elvish reflexes, improved intiative, eldrich heritage for that little lizard familar to get a +12 before dex.) But that's just to get the looks from the table when I roll a 1 and say "I go on 13"
My wizard/bloatmage has imp init, reactionary and the familiar for a +10 before dex, plus the 500gp ioun stone for another +1 and another 3 from dex for a total of +14.
I have also thought of blowing the cash to make my mwk spiked gauntlet +1 and dueling for ANOTHER +4 :P
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I go for high initiative on rogues to catch enemies flat footed, and spellcasters with area of effect spells they want to get off before their allies and enemies start mixing in the same areas. Those characters mostly have this (or Excitable, which is the same thing for a gnome).
But I never bothered with init boosters for my other types of PCs. If I don't have anything better to take that's specific to the build, I'd rather just take something to get +1 on a saving throw for a PC that doesn't have a specific need to go first.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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But I never bothered with init boosters for my other types of PCs. If I don't have anything better to take that's specific to the build, I'd rather just take something to get +1 on a saving throw for a PC that doesn't have a specific need to go first.
Pretty much this. Another top contender for my "nothing better to take" situation is River Rat, making Swim a class skill. I pretty consistently make sure my PCs have at least a +5 in Swim so I don't have to be fished out if I'm in the drink. I've seen PCs almost drown, the drowning rules don't care about your level or your HP, and lots of scenarios have water in them.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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I use traits to do one of two things: grant me certain things I need as class skills, or improve existing abilities.
Skill examples - bluff on a cleric, use magic device for my dhampir (wand of inflict light wounds, diplomacy on a fighter, etc
Ability examples - 3 more rounds of rage/day and 1 more channel/day have both proven to be worth it. And my druid gets maximum effect from this trait.
Eagle form for 18 hours? 3/day? Huzzah!!
+2 to initiative really does the following to a static example (both rollers have a +0 modifier). If you have reactionary, you will get an initiative between 3-22. They will get an initiative between 1-20. You both have 20 possibilities for numbers. That's 400 combinations. Of these combinations, 229 will result in your number being higher than their number, rather than the standard 190 (10 of the combinations are the same number, thus a tie). So that's 190/400 = 47.5% chance of going first versus 229/400 = 57.25% chance of going first.
Basically, reactionary equates to +~%10 to your chance to go first.
I'd rather be a bird all day.
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I often spend hours searching through traits trying to find ones that are both useful and fit the character. I think and rethink adding traits, taking them away, trying to find that perfect synergy of roleplaying and usefulness.
And then after three hours of not making it work I say screw it and take reactionary...
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Reactionary is interesting in that it's a trait that many optimizers take early on in PFS, before realizing that skill or save traits are frequently better. While it's technically a half feat, it's a very, very good one in that you are unlikely to want to spend a feat on Imp Initiative unless it complements your build, but more likely to take Reactionary because you get 2 traits at level 1. It's kind of a matter of resource scarcity.
Generally speaking, I've stopped taking Reactionary for PFS characters, but it's very typical to see it on my home game characters. Another frequent possibility is that the players aren't familiar with other powerful traits, like Inner Beauty or Empyreal Focus.
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I will admit I thought of a half elven rogue built around going first (Reactionary/Elvish reflexes, improved intiative, eldrich heritage for that little lizard familar to get a +12 before dex.) But that's just to get the looks from the table when I roll a 1 and say "I go on 13"Just so you know, there is no point to both Reactionary & Elvish Reflexes if they are both Traits that give a a trait bonus to Initiative. Since it is a Trait bonus, it won't stack. Paizo specifically calls this out in the original Traits rules.
For the record, I have never taken a Trait to boost my Initiative on one of my characters, too many other things I want/need first.
when he says 'elvish reflexes' he is probably talking about the elven alternative racial trait, which gives up keen senses and weapon familiarity for the run feat and a +2 RACIAL bonus to initiative (as opposed to trait bonus from reactionary)
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Reactionary is interesting in that it's a trait that many optimizers take early on in PFS, before realizing that skill or save traits are frequently better. While it's technically a half feat, it's a very, very good one in that you are unlikely to want to spend a feat on Imp Initiative unless it complements your build, but more likely to take Reactionary because you get 2 traits at level 1. It's kind of a matter of resource scarcity.
Generally speaking, I've stopped taking Reactionary for PFS characters, but it's very typical to see it on my home game characters. Another frequent possibility is that the players aren't familiar with other powerful traits, like Inner Beauty or Empyreal Focus.
Gotta agree with this. I didn't know about Indomitable Faith when I took reactionary on my first fighter or I would likely have skipped it.
when he says 'elvish reflexes' he is probably talking about the elven alternative racial trait, which gives up keen senses and weapon familiarity for the run feat and a +2 RACIAL bonus to initiative (as opposed to trait bonus from reactionary)I will admit I thought of a half elven rogue built around going first (Reactionary/Elvish reflexes, improved intiative, eldrich heritage for that little lizard familar to get a +12 before dex.) But that's just to get the looks from the table when I roll a 1 and say "I go on 13"Just so you know, there is no point to both Reactionary & Elvish Reflexes if they are both Traits that give a a trait bonus to Initiative. Since it is a Trait bonus, it won't stack. Paizo specifically calls this out in the original Traits rules.
For the record, I have never taken a Trait to boost my Initiative on one of my characters, too many other things I want/need first.
Ah! That makes more sense, yes.
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Walter, that's a very long and drawn out process to prove that 1/20 = 5% :)
[long calculations]
Basically, reactionary equates to +~%10 to your chance to go first.
I'd rather be a bird all day.
And yet the math is actually far more complex, and the chances of Reactionary changing an outcome are greater than 10%, due to ties, the fact that you frequently have to compare against multiple enemy init rolls, etc.
Like I said earlier, I only take it for PCs with a specific reason for wanting to go first, and then I usually take Improved Initiative, too. That +6 is enough to make a big difference.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Ah! That makes more sense, yes.when he says 'elvish reflexes' he is probably talking about the elven alternative racial trait, which gives up keen senses and weapon familiarity for the run feat and a +2 RACIAL bonus to initiative (as opposed to trait bonus from reactionary)I will admit I thought of a half elven rogue built around going first (Reactionary/Elvish reflexes, improved intiative, eldrich heritage for that little lizard familar to get a +12 before dex.) But that's just to get the looks from the table when I roll a 1 and say "I go on 13"Just so you know, there is no point to both Reactionary & Elvish Reflexes if they are both Traits that give a a trait bonus to Initiative. Since it is a Trait bonus, it won't stack. Paizo specifically calls this out in the original Traits rules.
For the record, I have never taken a Trait to boost my Initiative on one of my characters, too many other things I want/need first.
Actually I just forgot they didn't stack :-(
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Walter, that's a very long and drawn out process to prove that 1/20 = 5% :)
[long calculations]
Basically, reactionary equates to +~%10 to your chance to go first.
I'd rather be a bird all day.
And yet the math is actually far more complex, and the chances of Reactionary changing an outcome are greater than 10%, due to ties, the fact that you frequently have to compare against multiple enemy init rolls, etc.
Like I said earlier, I only take it for PCs with a specific reason for wanting to go first, and then I usually take Improved Initiative, too. That +6 is enough to make a big difference.
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reactionary is just a great default, and going first is a big deal overall.
Honestly this is pretty much the exact level of power for a trait.
ANY SKILL TRAIT is MORE powerful than a feat. Dangerously curious being a top offender. if you're not trained in the skill +4 is STRONGER than skill focus (until level 10..). Granted skills are less powerful than caster levels.
+1 AC is a straight up feat (Defender of the society) but it's class restricted, so it's probably fine overall.
I think a lot of the problem is that the vast majority of traits are terrible. so the "good ones" (skills, reactionary) are so far ahead of (+1 on aoos against abberations) that it seems like a problem.
Going first is, in theory, super powerful. It's really important for spell casters (buff or battlefield control before enemies act is huge) but for fighters? not as a big of a deal.
Going first is, in theory, super powerful. It's really important for spell casters (buff or battlefield control before enemies act is huge) but for fighters? not as a big of a deal.
Since I am only just now regularly playing a buff-type caster, I begin to see the utility of high initiative. Usually I play some iteration of beat-stick or skill monkey so going first has been problematic as often as not.
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yeah beatstick/skillmonkeys often just want to go last so they can get buffed and/or the monster will run up to them and allow them a full-attack.
however a round to draw your weapon, and total defense against the charge attack is still powerful, or drink a potion/apply an oil.
Charging the enemy is usually really bad for you :D it gets you full-attacked and ganged up on.
It's a common trait because it's easy, it's never bad to have the option of going first (after all, you can always delay). So if you don't need anything from your traits, you might as well take +2 initiative.
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Since I am only just now regularly playing a buff-type caster, I begin to see the utility of high initiative. Usually I play some iteration of beat-stick or skill monkey so going first has been problematic as often as not.Going first should never be a problem. Remember you can always delay or ready which puts you in control over when you take your action.
This is important to remember. Way too often I've seen the rogue charge into combat, then miss getting Hasted because he's too far away...
Back to the original topic, I've found going first can be an incredible boon if:
A) You have some number of buffs.
B) You have a number of control abilities
C) You are a ranged character.
D) You have Sneak Attack
For my Inquisitor, for example, A and C are both true, and being able to throw up Bane + a full volley of arrows before any of the enemies have moved has won some combats that otherwise could have been TPKs.
On the other hand, a barbarian charging the enemy first would only get off a single swing, which while a strong one, would leave him in position to be surrounded by the enemy.
In short, while Reactionary can be really good, I don't think it's that good, unless you're a class which really benefits from going first.
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Going first in combat is a vital advantage. In my home group, Reactionary & Improved Initiative are staples of about half my players who regularly push their initiatives through the roof. The best defense is a good offense is their motto. Most monsters have +0 to +3 at best, while some of my players push +10 at first level! We have a dry erase board to track initiative & have the top spot in permanent marker called the "Rob" spot... granted we also have the bottom spot called the "Josh" spot for our notoriously poor initiative roller.
--Vrocket Launcher Tag
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Of my six PFS PCs that have made it to the table, two have Reactionary. My gunslinger who has a +8 init mod (and hasn't even taken Imp Init...) and my ranger, who was built in a bit of a hurry before the retraining rules came into effect.
I'm also a big fan of traits that add class skills; e.g. Highlander for my gunslinger, Vagabond Child, Ease of Faith, etc.
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I agree traits that grant class skills are almost as nice. I just have a hard time justifying them on occasion. (Dexios has maxed out acrobatics skill, but I couldn't justify rice runner with his background for example)
Yeah, I make sure all traits are accounted for in my PC's description. Similar to you, my lightly-armoured rondelero fighter would really benefit from having acrobatics as a class skill, but the background just doesn't fit.
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I've seen tables, as mentioned, where 4 of 6 characters had this trait or one of its cognates. It's not grossly overpowered, though given the focus of PFS scenarios, +2 to initiative is more generally useful than an additional class skill with a +1 modifier on it, with a few exceptions (Diplomacy, Bluff, Disable Device, Perception)
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Acting before your enemies is perhaps the single-most powerful thing you can do when the possibility always exists that going second means you may never get to go at all. Anything that can improve your chances to beat your enemy to the "punch" is important.
That being said, Reactionary has always been the most commonly seen trait, although with the addition of more and more traits, it is becoming less frequent. Where I see it more than anywhere is with relatively new players. It is (1) easy to understand, (2) is static so no forgetting to apply a situational modifier, and (3) a "base" trait that all players have access to, even without buying any Paizo product thanks to the web enhancement. Besides, who doesn't want to go first? :-)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I agree traits that grant class skills are almost as nice. I just have a hard time justifying them on occasion. (Dexios has maxed out acrobatics skill, but I couldn't justify rice runner with his background for example)Thats just flavor text. I'm sure you cant come up with another rationale.
General rant
In Dex's case, being an Inquisitor of Shizuku kind of precluded being a slave in my background for him. :-)
It is a maxim of good game design that any option that the large majority of players choose as a standard "must have" may be overpowered.
Note, however, the "may". It might not be overpowered. The maxim just means that a designer should take a careful look at options that become used that often, that's all.
-j
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I don't think Reactionary is overpowered. It's a good trait, but there are plenty of other equally good traits, including most of the traits that give +1 to a skill and make it a class skill, or those that give +1 on a saving throw.
I think Reactionary's just so much more popular than those others because it's good for almost anyone, while some of those other good traits are only useful for specific types of characters.
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it is also possible that most traits do absolutely nothing for a character and by default reactionary is just the best known default when no others apply.
do you want powerful traits? look at lessons of chaldira or defensive strategist
THOSE are powerful, as most religious traits are. reactionary is just both decent and useful to any character. that's it. i am amazed at people claiming it is too powerful when there are MUCH more powerful traits out there. in fact any trait that gives +1 to saves is better than it. your characters life can be saved by a +1 saving throw. it is highly doubtful a +2 initiative will save you, unless your first action is to run away.
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For my .002 ... the save feats are WAY more useful than Reactionary. Can't tell you how many times the +1 (+5%) has saved my character from a save or die (suck) situation which could have ended in a TPK. Going 1 or two places before the bad guys has rarely seemed to make that much of a difference, when placed in this perspective.
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For my .002 ... the save feats are WAY more useful than Reactionary. Can't tell you how many times the +1 (+5%) has saved my character from a save or die (suck) situation which could have ended in a TPK. Going 1 or two places before the bad guys has rarely seemed to make that much of a difference, when placed in this perspective.
It can make all the difference in the world if you have ENOOOUGH DAKKKA! ,your class is good at using held actions to disrupt spellcasters, or you gain an advantage by going first (sneak attack)
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it is also possible that most traits do absolutely nothing for a character and by default reactionary is just the best known default when no others apply.
do you want powerful traits? look at lessons of chaldira or defensive strategist
THOSE are powerful, as most religious traits are. reactionary is just both decent and useful to any character. that's it. i am amazed at people claiming it is too powerful when there are MUCH more powerful traits out there. in fact any trait that gives +1 to saves is better than it. your characters life can be saved by a +1 saving throw. it is highly doubtful a +2 initiative will save you, unless your first action is to run away.
If you go first - you get to count your DEX on AC...
one could even say "your characters life can be saved by a +1 to your AC...";)
defensive strategist does the same thing, not 10% of the time like reactionary, but ALWAYS.
