Hmmmm. Not sure about this one. Interesting. Clearly a drow item. Not sure that's the best Golarion item. I think you are covering up with some flashy special effects. But that said, the grapple stuff and climb stuff is great for the game table. Ordinarily I'd probably say that 20 times per day is strange, but from a ranged weapon that is a reasonable amount that you need to track it and that you might actually use that up in a day. If you had made it unlimited that would likely have bothered me. I don't know if this is as strong as it appears, but I wish you the best of luck!
Contributor; Publisher, Kobold Press; RPG Superstar Judge
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Ok, let's be frank: it's a cliche of game design that drow-anything is always popular. This quiver of spiderkind fits that mold of creepy spider stuff right from the title. That makes it not exactly original in theme, and yet there's nothing inherently wrong with designing to suit a popular taste.
And to Clark I say, RPG Superstar doesn't require a Golarion focus.
The harpoon and grapple rules, that seems a manageable level of complexity. The option of firing an arrow and climbing into the vile surface-dwarf citadel... Yeah, I like this.
Keep, and I'd love to see something a little less routine than a drow focus in the next round.
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Grappling 20 times per day might as well be unlimited times per day.
The grapple weapon quality lets you use the weapon to grapple a target if you make a successful attack roll. Even with PF's "I got yer arm" definition of grapple, adding that to an arrow still feels weird to me. A flimsy arrow is not a harpoon.
Using it to climb is fun... but I don't think people would pay 32k gp for a magic grappling hook...
First of all, congratulations on making the Top 32! That in itself is a major accomplishment and it’s something you should take great pride in. You rock!
I like the creepy spidery flavor this quiver evokes. I really like the creepy way the quiver embraces its wearer with its nasty segmented spider-legs. Yeah, drow and driders are the first creatures that come to mind when I think about your quiver, but I think niche items still have a place in the game. You had a [very] minor technical foul with the wondrous item template: in the Requirements section, web should be italicized and lower case. Not a big deal, but following the template should be easy-peasy, and shows you can follow directions.
All that said, it's a Superstar-worthy item with a spider/drow theme that struck a chord with the voters. Kudos and good luck!
Contributor
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Star Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9
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Welcome to the Top 32, metaDM!
Your item evokes a creepy feeling, but it doesn't overreach, so I find that refreshing. You did an excellent job keeping to the spider theme, even though this led to some slightly wonky design choices (especially the ranged grapple). Still, considering the tensile strength of spider webbing, I can see this transforming an arrow into a more powerful projectile weapon. For the most part, your item's formatting is clean; Web should be web, but I didn't notice anything else. I hope you keep up the thematically creepy work.
Best of luck to you in the contest!
I don’t have much to say about this item, which I guess means that it’s pretty tight, well-designed, and well-written.
The bow-fired grappling line is kind of a fantasy mainstay, and I think anything that lets an archer get closer to their Robin hood/Hawkeye/Legolas archetype is welcome. I like bringing in underused rules from Ultimate Combat. I like the spider theme. Recommended.
Congratulations!!
This was an item that I knew was going to make it. I voted it up quite a few times, but I also voted it down as well. It definitely was not one of the stronger Superstar items, but heck, that just means it's not the fastest supercar. It's still a supercar.
I up voted this on the descriptions alone. I love grapple rules, and I agree with Sean that 20 is basically unlimited. I didn't like the grappling hook aspect.
I loved the spider legs locking it in place on your body.
Congrats again!
I uh...*cough* have arachnaphobia... So...this item was a really hard sell for me. I felt like there were some issues with it, but despite the inherent creep-out, I liked it better than the other quivers.
Congrats on making the Top 32!
I like this! I never saw it during voting, but probably would have voted for it. I like ranged combat maneuvers, and ranged harpooning could be really fun and versatile....like dragging things back to the archer.
Or shooting down fifty feet and sliding down on the spider web like Legolas the tightrope walker!
I won't hold the drow theme against you; it's not your fault they were (and still are), being pushed to death by Wizbro. And whilst you're not the first to think of arrows with a rope attached, silk is a great alternative which meshes well with the theme. Ranged grappling is also cool.
The segmented legs folding over you is brilliant.
Yeah, I didn't see this as a drow-themed item. I saw this as a variation of the Legend of Zelda hookshot.
I love the hookshot.
Congratulations on making it to the top 32! I'll see you in Round 2!
I didn't vote for this one very often. It didn't seem unique enough as an idea to me. The flavor is nice, however.
It grapples? What happens if an arrow from the quiver hits the Quicksand Cloak? Heh.
Loved this item. Nice theme and flavorful execution...
Nice one Jobe. Keep the creativity on high and explore the River Kingdoms a little in Round 2.
Jobe, congratulations on making it through!
I saw your item during voting, and I remember thinking it was... okay. Perhaps using arrows to grapple, or creating extra, magic rope is useful. It's neat imagery, sure, but.. I'd probably never use it, unless I was playing a drow archer, or some other similar highly-focused character.
Good luck in future rounds!
I'm skipping my normal good bad ugly routine. This was one of my top picks, I have nothing critical to say.
This was in the first pair I saw and was my first up vote! Congradulation!
I like the idea of harpoon arrows and it fit well with the flavor. My only problem with it was that it wa usable 20 times a day.
Good luck on the archetype round.
For some reason this instantly reminded me of Links grappling hook thingy from Ocarina of Time. I completely ignored there being a spider/drow type connection, and thought this was really cool. Good luck with the next round!
Good item! This one never popped up for me during voting. I wish it had - it's better than a lot of other quiver items that were submitted. I don't instantly think that spider-themed = drow-themed, personally, and I wish there were some supporting material in a popular campaign setting that would break that perception so that arachnid-themed material wouldn't instantly be slapped with the accusation of pandering to the drow fans. The quality of the writing here is very good overall.
Editing nitpick: Spells should be presented in lower-case and italicized.
I actually have a spider-themed archer rogue PC ... and I'm not sure I'd want this for her unless I could reskin it. Having a giant headless spider riding around on your back as you pull arrows out of its thorax is just a little gross. :P
I guess the 20 uses per day is tied to the number of arrows in a full quiver, but I think you could just go ahead and say it's unlimited usage. That's a lot of little boxes on a character sheet to mark off and have to keep track of.
Good item! This one never popped up for me during voting. I wish it had - it's better than a lot of other quiver items that were submitted. I don't instantly think that spider-themed = drow-themed, personally, and I wish there were some supporting material in a popular campaign setting that would break that perception so that arachnid-themed material wouldn't instantly be slapped with the accusation of pandering to the drow fans. The quality of the writing here is very good overall.
Editing nitpick: Spells should be presented in lower-case and italicized.
Oh where oh where would we find a popular campaign setting company that could produce a few spider themed / non drown oriented modules? ;)
As for the item it strikes me as both overwhelming and underwhelming. Outside of combat it seems really nice and handy, inside it seems ripe for abuse. It clearly isn't designed for an archer type character (20 arrows in a quiver means you're changing quiver mid-combat) but it does give 20 uses a day to a grapple/strength based combatant to get within range of that flying nasty. I really do like that ability to allow the grapple monkey to get involved but the potential abuse man... wow.
Looking forward to see your next one. Forests are full of spiders right?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka JoelF847
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I thought this was a well written item with a pretty tight way to get the grappling arrow effect described. However, it just seemed too similar to some other grappling hook/spider themed items I've seen before. I'm pretty sure there was one froma an earlier year of Superstar.
Hopefully you can keep the tight writing and mechanics and dial up the creativity for future rounds.
Congratulations Jobe,
Loved the name. Loved the visuals (the legs grab you!) Loved the pedipalps vocab. Loved the UC rules fu. Loved the restraint (phew no poison). I peg you as going far in this one and hope you do. I assume the 50' is based off a long bow where its first range increment would require two charges. Maybe not, but the charges concern is high.
Suggestion for R2: keep the balance of rules fu & flavor. It will serve you well.
Good luck and nice job :)
FWIW: If this had poison, or if it used hand-crossbow bolts, or if it turned your hair white then I might have jumped to the drow connection. As it was I dinnae make the leap until the second judge called it out. Maybe its just because I havenae readd a new Salvatore novel in years.
A little pricy, but I like it!
Flavor...flavor...flavor!
I have always liked Drow items, and this isn't Overly powerful IMHO.
Kudos for avoiding the "poison" thing. Drow poison themed items are almost a cliche' now.
I love items with great descriptions. I voted for this a few times simply because I could easily picture what it was and what it does. I think that's what gave it mojo in the judges eyes.
Just out of curiosity, why was the CL set to 8th? How much did that affect the price?
very nice. original idea and well designed
As prior entries will tell you, Template Fu is one mean point eating machine, but will also praise where praise is due.
These reviews being this in depth usually take me a while to do and they get fitted in around other demands on my time, so please bear with me if I haven’t gotten to your item yet. I will get there in the end.
Review Caveat: I try to keep things totally dispassionate and all comments herein are my own. Having not made the illustrious levels that you have achieved this year, I can only caveat that anything I propose in feedback may not be totally in line with what Paizo thinks or needs of its freelance game designers, so do consider carefully any and all feedback I make under this light.
I start your review with…
Congratulations on being selected by the public at large and then the stalwart judges!
Review Breakdown:
Template: 4/5
Hungry! Mmmm food! Ok, the one that catches a lot of people – check your errata when entering competition – the Slot should be none; your spell in requirements should not be capitalized and should also be in italics. *munch* - because Template Fu knows what’s coming next, he relents and just eats one point.
Spelling: 3/5
This bit IS boilerplate to avoid confusion. Everyone should know to use US English, so you just know that I am going to eat points for stray ‘u’ letters and similar.
I have deducted a point here purely to be consistent with earlier reviews (water lilies) which sparked debate. So for the purpose of spelling reviews, the dictionary in my 2010 word processor is calling the shots.
It didn’t like pedipalps (which I am sure should be ok). But for consistency, Office 2010 ate a point.
It did find the lbs abbreviation that didn’t have a period on the end, but that is something that shouldn’t be in the description, you should have used pounds not lbs. (which wouldn’t affect your word count at all) – lbs. is only used in the weight entry of the template I believe. So this one, I am happy to feed a point to Template Fu for (I must watch for this myself going forwards as it’s really a “template” issue, but was found during spelling checking).
The reason I believe this is the case is we now must not use ft, but feet, so I extrapolated that lb/lbs should be pound/pounds in the same way. But the bit that cost you the point was the missing period on the abbreviation itself.
Readability: 4/5
These are readings you can get from most spelling and grammar check options in word processors, for this, I am pasting everyone’s description into Word for consistency. My grading’s are purely my own personal feelings for target scores but it should be noted these are very helpful during development to spot problems in your writing, especially passivity.
Passive Sentences 37% (-1 pt, need to get this lower going forwards)
There are whole threads on this and it is possible to get 0%, which is wicked, but I would expect scores of less than 20% to be around the ideal mark for item descriptions (sometimes, you need the passive, but only rarely).
Flesch Reading Ease 55 (close but not low enough to warrant a point loss)
(0-30 best understood by university graduates, 60-70 easily understood by 13-15 year olds, 90-100 easily understood by 11 year olds)
Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level 9.8 (close but not high enough to warrant a point loss)
(This equates to the grades found in the US schooling system, e,g. 8.2 means it should be understandable by the average 8th grade student)
Me as a Designer Review: 3/5
Ok, lets get my pet peeve out of the way – wall of words, difficult to scan read during a game in session, yada yada – I think everyone knows this one now.
Agree with Sean, 20 times per day is kind of “what a quiver comes with in arrows” and bland. Then that thought made me think, it would have been cooler if the quiver comes with special arrows that allow the silk to attach turning it into a consumable item, reducing the price and so then giving the 20 arrows some real meaning.
The sentence about being like a harpoon is in the main redundant filler and gets in the way of scanning the powers, move the high tensile bit (which I like) into the following grappling sentence – that’s all that’s needed here.
Very well done on not requoting grappling rules, just say what it does, say the game rule or term and move on – you did that, well done.
Interestingly, you mention “when securely anchored” but don’t give any indication to how, is firing the arrow into a wall enough or do you need some fellow party member in place to take the fired silk and tie it off for the rest of the party?
So a few little bits that taken together add up to a one point feed and another for my peeve wall of words – sorry, but that’s what a peeve is, it’s more spiteful than Template Fu on steroids and caffeine overdose.
Overall Impression: 3/5
Wall of words hurt you. And I couldn’t stop thinking about Spiderman and his web shooters for the whole item read – not sure if that’s good or bad, but it had to be mentioned.
You also lost a point here for the anchoring question – anything that could bump the game session flow tends to get a point eaten, so work on your coverage of eventualities and when adding a line. Pause, think whether it introduces any in game questions. Note them down and come back to them on your next self review.
Final Score: 17/25
I won’t give a final score comment as I haven’t for anyone else as I work through the items.
If this interests for personal reasons, please feel free to check out everyone else’s scores and at the same time check out your competition and their feedback too!
Closing, as I started…
Congratulations on being selected!
I really enjoyed the blend of flavor and mechanics on this item, and I think it was genius to make it a quiver. Even though the mechanics are pretty straightforward (which is honestly a big plus, certainly not a minus), at multiple points I'm thinking - 'oh yeah, a big spider abdomen on your back really would let you do this...'. Very cool, and congrats!
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... the dictionary in my 2010 word processor is calling the shots.
It didn’t like pedipalps (which I am sure should be ok). But for consistency, Office 2010 ate a point.
I'm sure that everyone appreciates the tremendous amount of effort you're putting into providing feedback, but it strikes me as unfair and somewhat ridiculous to ding an entry for spelling a word correctly. Your word processor should have an 'add word to dictionary' option, which you could use if you're going to rely on that dictionary as an authority.
(This is likely a side point that it would be best not to derail this thread with, but I would also hesitate to rely on a grammar checker in a word processor to identify passives correctly - I can't think of one that actually does that job accurately - but with an appropriately large grain of salt one might occasionally serve to identify weak or awkward writing, even if for the wrong reason)
Yeah, I'm trying something new this year and having started will push through in fairness to those already experimented on. Where I do disagree with the spellings, I make a point to say so to try and offset that.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka burrahobbit
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Hi, Jobe. Congratulations! This is a very cool item with nice visuals and lots of utility. I like how it all fits together, and I'm looking forward to seeing your archetype! Best of luck!
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8
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Hi Jobe, congratulations! I loved the use of "chitinous" in this write-up, but then I love spidery things. I liked a lot of the flavor of your item, but the harpoon action wasn't a favorite for me.
I agree with Xaaon of Xen'Drik that I would rather have seen the Drag rules used. That said, I'm looking forward to seeing what you bring for the archetype. Good luck!
Congratulations Jobe on making the Top 32!
This is simple but effective. The grapple quality on an arrow is neat and fits the theme nicely. You can see it working for drow slavers in particular. Climbing the spider silk is also very nice. This is for playing the game, not for esoteric hypothetical situations which almost never come up. This quiver will see use and will be super cool every time.
The description of the quiver gripping on to its wearer is the stand out line for me though. That is gross and creepy and I want to see a player's face when that happens for the first time. Disgusting. Great job!