Goblin Squad Member
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My wife despises jump puzzles because she's not very good at them. I actually enjoyed them in SWTOR, but more as an Exploration thing.
Jump Puzzles for me epitomize the kind of gameplay where Player-skill is all-important and Character-skill is totally irrelevant. I really dislike that kind of gameplay. There's just something very immersion-breaking and wrong about a Rogue with amazing Acrobatics skill who can't jump up on top of a crate.
Ye gods, please, no! That's the surest way to pull me out of immersive gameplay and have me yelling at the screen in frustration. I don't have those reflexes and fine motor control at the keyboard - that's why it's so much fun to play a character who does. Don't rub my nose in my shortcomings by plopping something like that in the middle of my fantasy MMORPG!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Generally no. However, having hidden areas is nice. I liked one in GW2 where you had to slide down a cave floor and if you slid to the right spot you fell into a pool of water. Following the tunnel you found some long dead pirate.
Would be nice to find a way to randomize these things so their not all spoiled within an hour of launch.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I would love to see jump puzzles in PFO and there is certainly themes that fit into the exploration side of the game. Given the skill system of the game I can see that if you have acrobatics or climb and the like it would make the puzzle easier; higher/ longer jumps, faster climbs, flips, ect. Scaling mountains, moving through tree tops, parkour'ing across a city would be awesome. Some player do not like them and at no point should the jump puzzles ever be required, but they should be an option. This is no different than RPing. There are many player who hate it and many who love it, but the option should still exist. (unless the resources to make said puzzle take away from something else that is rated by the Devs then possible the community as more important ie. dungeons)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I could see them being used sparingly and in context.
A dungeon full of some super nimble humanoids (sprites or the like?) where there is a secret room/treasure hoard. Fits a theme.
A city ruin/lair that is run by a thief acrobat that has an escape tunnel. If you fail you fall onto some rusty spikes or something. Fits a theme.
But yeah, don't want to see them in every area like GW2 has. They're fun, but they do break immersion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The beauty of PFO is that you're not required to play through all of the content the devs provide, so if they keep the Jump Puzzles in particular areas, then you can just avoid those.
... perhaps sometimes secret passages and shortcuts, rather than as a main route to somewhere.
Totally agree.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I also wouldn't mind some areas where the terrain is just difficult so you may need to jump this bit or over that, but it's not difficult terrain that necessitates player skill, like jumping over a fallen tree, up a small ledge that's just a little to steep to walk, things anyone can do with the tap of a key, without the coordination requirements of a real puzzle.
Adds to the richness of the environment in my opinion.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm in the group of Jump puzzles to be used sparingly. Most likely want to see it in dungeons. And then some areas may be dangerous if you just casually stroll in, but by jumping around (shouldn't be too hard if it's made easy) you can avoid hazards.
Bonus points if there may be some monster that messes around with it (I'm imagining some plant creature lowering the stump from under you into awful water, but the next stump is pretty spacious and not too hard to jump. That could be wishful thinking on my part, I'm not really sure PFO will allow for that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The beauty of PFO is that you're not required to play through all of the content the devs provide, so if they keep the Jump Puzzles in particular areas, then you can just avoid those.
... perhaps sometimes secret passages and shortcuts, rather than as a main route to somewhere.Totally agree.
Great point. I guess as long as I can choose not to play that part of the content I am good with what ever else is in the game in this respect.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Great point. I guess as long as I can choose not to play that part of the content I am good with what ever else is in the game in this respect.The beauty of PFO is that you're not required to play through all of the content the devs provide, so if they keep the Jump Puzzles in particular areas, then you can just avoid those.
... perhaps sometimes secret passages and shortcuts, rather than as a main route to somewhere.Totally agree.
Ironic, considering your rabbit avatar.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really think side content like jump puzzles or board/card games go a long way to enhance a game. People get attached to their virtual communities and it nice to see a good variety of activities you can access within a single game to keep people from feeling like they are sick of the same old content day after day.
A little jump content would be cool as long as:
1. There is no major downside for not participating in it.
2. It isn't wasting a lot of dev time / it promotes meaningful player interaction.
To me this means player built obstacle courses. Make areas in town were players can arrange some poles, crates, nets, and other things as they want. I could see having a lot of fun running an obstacle course race event.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm rather shocked at how many people here don't like jumping puzzles. I love them and enjoy the challenge.
I never really cared for them when they took 30 minutes to accomplish and I jump in a manner that should work but because of inconsistent geometry (not exactly uncommon in MMOs) I land in a place that should be ok but instead fall to the ground and have to stat over 25 minutes before. After that particular style of "fun" in SW:ToR I never tried a puzzle again without watching a video of the "correct" way to do it.
If they're fairly short I don't have a problem, but waiting 40 minutes for a balloon isn't fun either ;).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Jumping puzzles seem to be the kind of PvE content that takes quit a bit of work, both in designing and testing, and I think GW will rather want to concentrate on implementing and testing out content that promotes player interaction and sandbox gameplay. That does not mean I do not like the occasional jump needed to explore a hidden place: that would still make a lot of sense in an immersive world.
But the way GW2 implemented them (like 30 quit extensive jumping areas in the game), I do not see GW focussing their resources for that.
I will take accidentally getting yourself locked up in the Najena prison cells by falling through a fake floor, and then needing other players to get you out, over any amount of jumping puzzles. I hope GW has the balls to implement that kind of playerinterdependency again, but to be honest, I am not holding my breath.
I just do not see a sandbox MMO succeed if the world does not provide inconvenience that can be alleviated by other players.
Playerinterdependency for me also goes a bit further then just surrounding yourself constantly with other players in order to lessen the chances of getting ganked.
Trade and Crafting are off course good examples and I think GW are definately on the ball for interdependecy on that.
Travel is another: not only safer in numbers, but there should also be spells and stuff that make this easier/safer, that players can provide for others(who did no take that particular skill or class or school of magic or whatever).
Simple stuff like Buffs: I know it is annoying to constantly hear people shouting for "Looking for Conviction for my pet!" but buffs are still a nice way to get some interaction between players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do I want jump/climb implemented in game? Yes, absolutely!
Do I want places where nimble rangers and rogues can dance around iron kettle warriors? Yes abolutely!
Will I cry if my enemies use higher ground and sniper perches to their advantage? Maybe a little, but not as much as I will enjoy doing the same back to them.
Do I want PVE jumping puzzles where you need perfect timing and a little lag makes you fail? No thank you!
Caveat: I *do* want PVE situations where having one character with movement skills (climb, jumb, swim) or spells gives a large advantage, f.ex jumping across the pit trap to pull the bypass lever on the other side. But those situations should be more about character skill than about player skill.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Maybe need a command like vanguard .. I think it was /rope to pull team mates up!
Yep. Definitely +1 for implementing a /rope command.
Current physics being hit or miss jump only are not my thing. That and I'm not jumping just for the sake of jumping. If it were required to traverse the old ruins to get past fallen debris or similar concept then I would be more apt. But I would hope in this day and age it would resemble the more freeform parkour style like Black Desert is attempting. Then I would be more interested.
Jump Puzzle can be fun if done correctly. LOTRO added a Beacon based jump puzzle that I love a lot people hate, but if is kind of a funny little side quest that can easily be cheated (to complete the quest) with certain classes that can summon.
Why would I want to see them? Old School Tomb of Horrors! Of there must be a in game way to bypass them. You need to hire the local thief to disarm for example.
Jump Puzzles are perfectly fine if you've also got a /rope command to help the rest of the players across.
Smells like /cheat. And for some reason I get the image of a military obstacle course designed to be a demanding test of ability. Then one guy completes it and allows the rest to simply walk around them and finish.
Sorta like mesmers in gw2 that portal hundreds of people through them for the daily chest reward.
Call me whatever but I want less hand holding, and what you suggest is more akin to carrying someone across the finish line.
TT does not apply, everyone has a space bar that causes your character to jump in an mmo.
Leading someone through is meaningful. Experiencing content together is meaningful. The satisfaction from completing a difficult challenge is meaningful. Robbing someone of that satisfaction by circumventing it altogether is most certainly not meaningful in my opinion.
I see now, you've convinced me. Everyone deserves a medal regardless of skill.