Goblin Squad Member
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Defiantly YES! I would love to see Jump puzzles.
It's not that I want to do them. I want the game to be full of things some people hate and other people enjoy.
It's not like you would have to do them, the game is a sandbox, you don't have to do everything available. If there is a jump puzzle between you and an objective, you have the ability to ignore that objective and find a new one. If your mind forces you to complete everything you see, then you get to deal with some things you don't enjoy.
A barrier that once down everyone is free to pass through relates to a discussion of a jump puzzle meant to challenge each player how? And besides, that barrier should have a 6 keyholes that need to be turned synchronously in order to proceed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And the jump puzzle could easily be circumvented after the first person navigated it by way of a rope. Not terribly unlike the barrier situation.
One of the dungeons in GW2 did something like this. I was able to navigate the ramp with sequences of electric shocks traversing down it fairly easily, but my wife found it utterly impossible. Fortunately there was a switch at the top that disabled it, allowing her to proceed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A barrier that once down everyone is free to pass through relates to a discussion of a jump puzzle meant to challenge each player how? And besides, that barrier should have a 6 keyholes that need to be turned synchronously in order to proceed.
Ah, okay... so player skill is important, not character skills. Maybe we should do everything that way. You have to get a certificate from a physical trainer to prove how much you can lift before you can make a strong character, and submit your medical records for review in order to set your Fortitude save. Your I.Q. score, divided by 10, is what you get for an Intelligence score, and if GW doesn't approve of your views on religion, you can't play a 'good' character. If you have a disability of some sort, well, you're better off not playing PFO at all...
Or maybe we could scrap all of that and realize that people often play RPG's to be what they are not. If you want a game where your twitch 'skill' is more significant than character choices, there are plenty of FPS's out there.
Defiantly YES! I would love to see Jump puzzles.
It's not that I want to do them. I want the game to be full of things some people hate and other people enjoy.
It's not like you would have to do them, the game is a sandbox, you don't have to do everything available. If there is a jump puzzle between you and an objective, you have the ability to ignore that objective and find a new one. If your mind forces you to complete everything you see, then you get to deal with some things you don't enjoy.
Can agree with this, and it was part of an underlying point. Its a side puzzle nothing says you have to bang your head on it for 2 hours until you hate life. But, to me anyway, banging my head on it for hours gives me a greater sense of satisfaction when I finally get past it, or I move on and do something else and come back to it later.
Drakhan, I know I come off quite rigid in my stance, but for the record I do agree with some of the finer points and scenario you experienced with your wife. That was the clear intent of the switch, one person going through and turning it off making the path easier for everyone. The same as any trap or locked door. The difference tho is you didnt magically warp her past it. My comments are to a very specific case where the clear intent is the opposite, challenging each and every player on an individual level, then having an unrelated or side mechanic that bypasses it entirely. As a player it undermines my legitimate accomplishment. As a dev, well I wouldnt want to waste the time carefully constructing a precarious path if it was so easily avoided.
Again the reference to gw2. In wvwvw contested zones and the puzzles underneath. Long and arduous puzzles that take a long time to complete and pvp battles are around every corner making it more dangerous as intended. Then mesmers come in, invis to the top and chain portal everyone and their brother in a matter of seconds and defeat the entire purpose of contested challenges. Then people log in different alts and do it over and over stockpiling the rewards.
Intended or abused only a dev can say. And, I may be a dying breed I know, but I refuse to take part. I'll earn my own way to the top and enjoy the trials along the way, thanks. If my own aging reflexes hinder or prohibit me, I'm ok with that too.
To back up a step, in TT I fully understand why its available and needed. If the physics engine and systems could encompass all of that and translate it into an online game I would also see the point and agree. Given the usual implementation of jump puzzles, and simplified systems where everyone has equal chance of success independent of a skill based dice roll, and an easy do over if they fail, I have to say no, its unnecessary and way to open for abuse.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And in PFO, the dungeons aren't static, so you can't just get there and start teleprinter people in, you'll have to find another one. The last thing you want is your whole team being held up because one member has the misfortune to be Australian on an American server, or be aide one person cant work out the right spot because the appearance and the physical barriers don't match up. The number of times if jumped for something only to bounce off an invisible ledge or pass through one, or just slide right off because of lag.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Every character 'should' be able to get over a trap, through a maze, around a pit...whatever it may be. Just some characters should be able to do it more easily and help the rest of the party once they get it done.
If this wasn't the case, why would anyone take a Rogue into a dungeon. May as well take a half dozen grunts and just bash your way through.
Personally, I hope there are heaps of pits and traps and locked doors so the Rogue is finally more valuable than just the usual light armored fighter that works best from behind the mob.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Every character 'should' be able to get over a trap, through a maze, around a pit...whatever it may be. Just some characters should be able to do it more easily and help the rest of the party once they get it done.
Everyone 'should' be able to get to the end, but 90% of the dungeon should be conditional exploration. I want to see groups really working for a full dungeon clear, and it should be impossible to cover all the bases, I want people to not be able to do a dungeon in one run, I want them to have to go out and find someone of a certain profession to get by a certain obstacle they just found.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Every character 'should' be able to get over a trap, through a maze, around a pit...whatever it may be. Just some characters should be able to do it more easily and help the rest of the party once they get it done.Everyone 'should' be able to get to the end, but 90% of the dungeon should be conditional exploration. I want to see groups really working for a full dungeon clear, and it should be impossible to cover all the bases, I want people to not be able to do a dungeon in one run, I want them to have to go out and find someone of a certain profession to get by a certain obstacle they just found.
Assuming the dungeon doesn't despawn while you're looking :P
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Goblin Squad Member
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Mario style jump puzzles no.... Assassin's Creed style... maybe
VERY true. I don't think anyone is coming into this game wanting their character to be like Mario. Would some rogues/monks/barbarians who take the time to train climb and jump really enjoy scrambling up the sides of buildings a and leaping across rooftops? Hell yeah.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Mario style jump puzzles no.... Assassin's Creed style... maybeVERY true. I don't think anyone is coming into this game wanting their character to be like Mario. Would some rogues/monks/barbarians who take the time to train climb and jump really enjoy scrambling up the sides of buildings a and leaping across rooftops? Hell yeah.
Reminds me of old Daggerfall... if you capped your Run and Jump skills, and owned a ship, you could run down the deck, jump off the bow, and when you looked back, you'd be far enough out in the water you couldn't see your boat anymore. If you became a vampire, then climbing walls and jumping from roof to roof was a good way to escape the mobs of guards that would attack after you fed on someone in town.