One of my PCs: a male halfling Bard 10, is consistently managing around 40-ish perform checks. I'll try to give you a resume of his heroics and then my hope was you lot would help me, as his DM, mold the worlds reaction to his talents.
The character is travelling with an adventuring party, nationwide regarded as heroes, who saved a coastal village from a monster invasion.
He has helped said adventuring party stop a series of murders, thereby saving many lives, among others the mayor of a city-state.
He is the lord of a keep, and he and his adventuring friends are considered nobles of the land.
So far he has been very modest about his skills, never praising himself or making a fuss about being noble at all. Instead he merely sings, spins tales and dances, spreading happiness in taverns whereever he travels. He has never requested room, food or even payment for his services, but he does not turn it down when offered.
Now that you know, any inputs and advice you have for me in responding to this guy and his 40+ perform rolls, would really be appreciated.
Thanks in advance
-Nearyn
Off the to of my head:
Ruyan.
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Don't forget Fans. Maybe some bad fans. As in the crazy kind that convince themselves they are in a relationship with said celebrity.
He could have a family curse or something along the lines of "being really good, but to always toil in obscurity".
Stops the issue of having Extraplanar attention, until he goes and fixes it.
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No, the beetles! He could have a 1/day ability of summoning a crowd of screaming young halfling girls that either a) are used as a swarm for 1d4 rounds against an enemy or b) swoop him up and carry him away totally obscuring him from site.
The draw back is he would be instantly covered with kiss marks and his pockets got picked randomly of 1d4 items taken as momentos from his favorite fans!
Alternatively he can later find some of his belongings for sale on auction for ridiculous sums of money (way more than they are actually worth)
Just think about Eric Clapton in the late 60s, or any of the Beatles. This is how people might react, save the fact that news travels slower.
Extraplanar beings start to pop in for a visit....
One of my first games in 3.5 a player pumped performance to the max and built her bard character around the "traveling performer" idea, with circumstantial bonuses (playing on an actual stage instead of a corner of a bar) plus her skill bonuses and a natural roll of a 20 she had a 40ish total. The dm rolled low on percentage dice and decided her god heard her playing so magnificently that in avatar form she came down to listen to the music. Afterwards the god gifted her blessed strings with minor magic on them.
If he is playing these god like tunes regularly, good or bad some higher power should take notice. Im more on the side of good things hapening to him though, hes not only playing his character right, hes not a prick about it either. Reward him
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Well, here's another take: in order for "the world" to be suitably impressed by a 40 Perform check, they need to be able to *appreciate* a 40 Perform check.
Consider an analogy (and bear with me here, as I live in Atlanta so I'm using an Atlanta-orientd example): Let's say two people - one Joe Average, the other an experienced foodie and wine connoisseur - head to Restaurant Eugene, where they enjoy a brilliant, seven-course chef's menu with perfect wine pairings. The bill is $500 ($600 with gratuity). Our foodie totally understands that he's paying for the chef's innate talent and years of experience, local ingredients sourced this morning from organic farms, attentive, informed staff, an experienced, educated sommelier, and so on - he's *capable* of appreciating a $300/person dinner. Joe Average, on the other hand, is outraged - $300! That's thirty meals at Chili's or Applebee's! So stupid!
Most people are Joe Average.
The "world" probably doesn't react as fully appreciatively as one might expect from a 40 Perform check. They LIKE it (Joe Average liked his dinner at Eugene; he just doesn't understand why it's $300), but they aren't especially *moved* by it - they are unable to appreciate the full scale of the performer's brilliance (maybe they can "comprehend" up to a DC 20 performance). That said, there *will* be people who can - other performers, who might seek out so talented a person to learn from him, certain theater owners and people "in the biz", maybe a very cultivated aristocrat (and most of them aren't, either; they just follow fashion). In a fantasy setting, maybe certain kinds of supernatural or other beings take an interest in him (a mysterious fey sorceress, a dragon, and so on).
A good film example of this kind of thing is the 1980s film version of "Amadeus"; Salieri alone has the ability to understand Mozart's brilliance, but since he himself cannot *create* to so high a level, he's consumed by jealousy and uses his position to destroy Mozart; certainly, another mode of reaction to so elevated a performer!
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David Haller has a good point. The average person might not be able to fully appreciate the difference between a Perform 20 and a Perform 40. Check out this story about a famous violinist who played in public to an underwhelming response.
However, since the bard in question is not charging for his performances and has an additional reputation, I'd assume he'd have a fair share of fans among the common people.
Having one or two powerful beings who can appreciate a 40 Perform take interest would be a very good idea.
Like Joegoat, I wouldn't cause him to much trouble, though. Inconvenient fans or a rival is one thing, and it could be fun making him choose between two potential patrons without offending one of them, but you want the character to feel like his freely-shared performances are bringing him more benefits than trouble. Having powerful beings try to do him serious harm is probably going too far.
Have you ever read "Soul Music" by Terry Pratchett? It covers the introduction of rock music to a magical world.
At any rate, he should encounter an agent at the very least. A slimy agent to attempt to corrupt him. Could even be a devil in disguise. Convince him he's not getting his money's worth for his singing.
I'd say that The Name of the Wind and it's sequel The Wiseman's Fear would provide brilliant ideas for dealing with this. Kvothe is an incredible litigation but cannot find a patron because of his enmity with a powerful noble. Creating a musical competition adventure would be great, where the other players need to prevent sabotage, etc.
Devastating musical duels with mighty (and EVIIIIILLLLLLL) musicians is the only real answer here.
Asmodeus challenges him to a duel of the Fiddle variety.
Golden Fiddle: 1/day you may play the Golden Fiddle to summon Chuck Norris for 1 round to Roundhouse kick every enemy to the face with his +5 holy, unholy, lawful, chaotic, flaming, frost, distance, returning, brilliant, vorpal, shocking, bane (everything except and including Chuck Norris) Foot of Awesome Awesomeness. If stuck by kick (Chuck get +100 to attack roll and ALWAYS rolls a natural 20) the enemy must Fort save (with a -1000000 modifier) to save v Death. They cannot be resurrected in any way, shape, or form period. Their essence is utterly destroyed and even their memory is wiped from the mind of everyone and everything everywhere forever. The only person who will remember them is Chuck Norris, who will probably forget them anyway.
Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions. I have been inspired.
Your time and creativity are very much appreciated :)
Cheers
-Nearyn
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this is mostly me just being horribly contrary, don't take it too seriously.
As a bard, this thread gives me the shivers and almost makes me want to skip the taverns in the evenings.
Why are there so many suggestions that have negative consequence? Some of these suggestions remind me of some Sunday morning cartoon villains, where say someone who has a really spectacular aptitude for climbing (+30 nearly always) goes to try and save a damsel tied to the edge of a cliff when a really short dastardly villain with a z-styled mustache steps out and says "myaaa, think you can just climb up and save her ey?" and then shoots a flaming arrow at the wall and sets the entire thing ablaze.
He probably comes with a dog that laughs afterwards.
I don't see why there's so much ... evil stored in the world. For those of you who are in the music world, at least from my experience it's not cut-throat when you're treating things as an enjoyable past time.
well, because it is a cut-throat world--not everyone's all CG-LG. people will try to ruin each other over less, in fact. people get jealous of talent (or feel that they have talent, but aren't receiving the recognition they so *rightly* deserve, because you're stealing it all), it's just a thing that happens. a person may feel cheated because a significant other is apparently caring more about some hotshot musical star then they are about them.
take a look at, say, justin beiber (elvis, MJ, the beatles, mozart, anyone would do fine). his fanbase is absolutely rabid--they will throw their money away, ruin their lives, physically harm others for merely the thought of someone insulting their favorite star. that says nothing about the personality of said star--its just the people who are drawn to them from their skills/looks/whathaveyou.
crazy stalkers, critics who want to garner attention by tearing down so big a character, outraged families over a member's excess (fanatics), it goes on. people are terrible, yo.
now, im not saying the guy is gonna be walking down the street and tripping over people who hate him--quite the opposite in fact, those people are in the great minority. most people are just normal people who live normal lives, and while they enjoy the show, they're not gonna go smash some dude for not liking it (usually anyway).
Here's what I see:
He's not demanding money, but takes it when offered
my earlier note on jealous people.
normal person: "oh look at him he's so humble. what a great guy."
small minority: "i bust my back every day trying to make that much, and he doesn't even care."
He's not trying to bolster fame via requesting taverns recognize talent
and yet he (the bard) continues to draw crowds for his great performances. simply being exemplary can increase your fame without you trying.
He's in it for the fact that he's got an investment in a talent and wants to roll it.
which is a great outlook on it, actually. taking it too seriously is how you give youself an annuerism or find yourself doing cocaine out of a hooker's bellybutton. other people on the other hand take their talents very seriously, and/or think he's being wasteful of his talent.
normal person: "wow this guy's really good. he should be playing for the world, not some seedy bar."
small minority: "i had a good gig going in this town, and this kid's come and ruined it! he took all my crowds, and everyone who's left wants me to play for free now. must be nice being good enough to live on charity."
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There could also be the jealous people - the husbands/wives of commoners who have fallen in love with this bard's music. Maybe some of them would take steps to silence this young upstart? Don't forget other (less talented, jealous) bards. Maybe they have connections with dangerous people and don't like all the attention that this bard is getting.
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I'm pretty sure you just wind up pissing off people for doing well.
pretty much everything but that composite longbow bit would be an example of "realistic world and intelligent DM".
if you have a reputation amongst your enemies, of course they're going to exploit it. why wouldn't they?
I smell a crazy stalker or two-dozen in his future.
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- The songs he has sung and the tales he has spun would become part of the cultural landscape. Common folk would whistle his tunes not even knowing they're his.
- He should be regarded as a good luck charm by stewards, merchants and mercenary companies. "Bless our farm/boat/caravan/campaign with your song."
- Star eyed devotees arrive on his doorstep eager for apprenticeship. They make a shanty town commune/school in the shadow of his keep.
- The 'halfling voice' becomes the preferred musical fashion, causing humans to train boys to mimic the style - possibly with potions or castration to preserve their voices.
- A wizard fan names a new charm school spell after him. The same wizard begins to collect his songs and tales into book form and proposes his work be added to the study of literature.
- Other halfling entertainers begin impersonating him.
- A epicurean beast seeks him out - a Raksasha, Djinn or Devil - and offers him an extravagant treasure in trade for his voice.
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I don't see anything particularly viral about consistently performing extremely well. Sure, he'll affect those who see/hear such performances, and some of those may tell others, but unless those others also experience the bard's performances the word of mouth will stop there. He'll ultimately be no more famous in his lifetime than any other bard. It won't be until long after his death, as his works continue to spread, eventually into the hands of someone who is truly inspired by them to share them with all, in the composer's name, that this bard will have any true notoriety.
Unless of course he's an attention hog who laps up praise and fortune from those he entertains. Doesn't seem to be the case here though.
From a game mechanics perspective, what feats and skills do you push to be a great performer, composer, and musician? What ways exist to make your check truly over the top? Are Bards the best at this, not counting the magic aspect?
Thanks!
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I'm pretty sure you just wind up pissing off people for doing well.pretty much everything but that composite longbow bit would be an example of "realistic world and intelligent DM".
if you have a reputation amongst your enemies, of course they're going to exploit it. why wouldn't they?
This isn't a matter of your enemies exploiting your reputation, it's getting new enemies because of your reputation. Would you suggest that a character who had a talent for being very accurate, or who was a great crafter or counterspeller, should attract new enemies by virtue of this talent?
If any PC talent attracts the occasional jealousy or crazy rival, that's fine. For example, I'm currently in a light game where a powerful extraplanar creature has decided he wants to steal my bard's vocal cords as a trophy. But this is just after the ranger attracted the attention of a jealous mob boss who prided himself in his archery, so it's fair enough (and after helping the ranger with his mob boss, I'm enjoying my own little plot hook). I think KHShadowrunner is worried that this is a case of disproportionately attacking the bard.
And I still think that in general even if you do throw in the occasional downside to PC fame, the upsides should at least match if not outweigh the downsides. In my group, fame is typically seen as an extra reward for doing heroic things, not a hazard.
This whole thing reminds me of Amadeus, in which Mozart gained greater popularity with the common crowd than he did the nobility.
Perhaps challenge him to play before nobility and possibly earn an honorary title, but with great fame comes a price. Maybe not necessarily stalkers or the jilted husbands of crazy wives, but perhaps rivals in the field.
Yeah, not terribly original, but it seems like it would be fun.
Let him enjoy some positive attention, then have an Evil Outside type decide he wants the bard for his court. Maybe he'll send minions to track him down and request he serve, then escalate to trying to kidnap him. Really turn the heat up, so that in the end the Bard has to start wearing a disguie and tries to keep a low profile
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/perform
DC 30: Extraordinary performance. In a prosperous city, you can earn 3d6 gp/day. In time, you may draw attention from distant patrons, or even from extraplanar beings.
I wouldn't be surprised if Cayden Cailean or Shelyn wanted him to perform for them, if he's consistently passing DC 40 checks.
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So, simply from curiosity, I am trying to figure out this bard's numbers. He is level 10, so I guess he could have:
Stat +5
Savant trait +2
Class skill bonus +3
Ranks +10
Skill Focus feat +6 (level bonus included)
Prodigy feat +4 (level bonus included)
Magic & equipment +X
I guess if he were into Oratory he could make Speeches at +3 to the above using the Voice of the Sibyl. But assuming not, that all comes down to a perform check of d20 + X + 30, where X is any bonus from spells, magic items, and gear. Not bad. Is there a way for bards to take 10 on Perform checks?
Anyway, thats pretty cool.
Are there any other wacky prestige classes or archetypes that could push it higher? Either a flat bonus or a scaling one (such as how a Diviner gets lvl/2 to initiative checks)?
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This whole thing reminds me of Amadeus, in which Mozart gained greater popularity with the common crowd than he did the nobility.
Perhaps challenge him to play before nobility and possibly earn an honorary title, but with great fame comes a price. Maybe not necessarily stalkers or the jilted husbands of crazy wives, but perhaps rivals in the field.
Yeah, not terribly original, but it seems like it would be fun.
...that was GOD laughing at me!
Just a note to all you who are worried about picking on people for their skills and fame:
It is not about picking on them, I think. It is about using their character, and the choices they made building them, to make the story grow. While it is fun for people in the town to whistle your tunes even if they do not know your face, it is much cooler to have the plot for an adventure (or a drawn out plot over many adventures) focus around you because you are doing well.
Most people have negative ideas (as is trying to take something away, not as in bad) because that is a strong motivator for plot. However, the positive ideas (adding something to the character) can be a powerful motivator too. Who wouldn't want to perform for Gods?
In terms of keeping it real, yes, fame brings rivals, and rivals can vary on the crazy scale. You can have friendly rivals, professional rivals, or rivals who are bitter enemies. Again, lots of room for development!
Imagine if every time you rolled a critical and hit, you got to do the damage, but because of this every monster on the field currently saw you make the clean swing and are now forced to focus fire on that one character. In almost all situations this could be extraordinary.
... that's pretty much how all intelligent monsters should probably act. "This guy's the most dangerous! Focus on him! Block off his escape!" Whether that person is the crit-sweeping fighter, the mage ripping apart reality around them, or the rogue cutting out everybody's spleens, a smart opponent SHOULD focus on removing the biggest threat.
The question is whether or not the GM is ONLY throwing those kinds of tactics EVERY TIME, and not sparsing them in with some dumb brutes, some overconfident mages, some arrogant dragons, and/or some diabolical masterminds who are deluded into their own perceived invincibility.