Hey everyone. I just finished looking over some of the new races from the Advanced Race Guide, and I was curious to learn what everyone thought about them. Currently, while I haven't been able to find one yet, I was hoping to locate some sort of 'guide to races' but I sadly haven't come across any yet.
Therefore, I guess I can try to go into detail about some of the races that I think are above and beyond the rest (again, just my opinions, but feel free to provide your own take)
(Again, keep in mind that these are listed in no particular order)
1) Human - extra skill point, +2 in any ability score, and extra feat. Solid choice for almost any class.
2) Merfolk - Wow...a net gain +6 to ability scores, with the only real drawback being that they have a land speed of 5 feet. However, due to the 'strong tail' feature, they can easily get their speed bumped up to 15 feet. Really seems to shine as a Paladin or Sorcerer.
3) Strix - This race is just sick for one real reason: the ability to fly. Seriously, that one ability just puts this race above and beyond on so many levels. Plus, they can gain nice racial bonuses to their saving throws as well. Good for almost ANY class.
4) Hobgoblin - Again, a net gain of +4 to ability scores with no real drawbacks. An overall solid choice and good for almost ANY class.
5) Aasimar - Yeah, a +4 net gain to ability scores with resistance to 3 different types of energy. In addition, when u factor in the insane versatility of the Aasimar Heritage variations, its just plain sick. Again, good for almost ANY class.
6)Svirfneblin - This thing is a monster: SR equal to 11 + their class levels, +2 racial bonus on ALL saves, and some really good spell-like abilities. This little guy seems like he was MADE to be a sick wizard, druid, or even a witch or cleric.
7) Tiefling - Pretty much like Aasimar, and has an INSANE amount of benefits when given the fiendish heritage. A fairly solid choice for any class imaginable.
8) Duergar - Very strong spell-like abilities, and their Duergar immunities also add even more power. Again, a very good choice for Clerics, rangers, and almost all martial classes.
So yea, sorry that couldn't get to a 'top 10' sort of deal, but overall, these seem to be the races that are above and beyond all the rest. I'd be interested in hearing anyone else's thoughts on the matter of course.
I'd just like to see all the Race sections of Class Guides revisited now that they have so many options that are newer than the guides.
Should be noted that races no longer have an ECL and are not balanced against each other.
I specifically exclude Drow Nobles, Fetchlings, Sulis, and Svirfneblin from my games, and would really have to examine the others that aren't shown a point value for in the back of the book.
I don't allow Strix for RP reasons, since they're xenophobic.
Yeah now that Tiefling and Aasimar and their respective Heritage variations are PFS legal, I don't expect to see many other races out there.
Although you did miss the best race out there: Human, Azlanti Pureblood. Extra feat, extra skill point and +2 to every stat.
|
What Derek said, but a couple of things to mention:
Svirfneblin, Drow, and Duergar are all far too powerful to be PC options without a bit of nerfing. Most other races do well as a PC option, and while some races may be more powerful than others (Suli, Aasimar and Tiefling, for example), they aren't powerful enough that they unbalance the game in any significant way (in my experience).
Some races look good on paper, but aren't really all that great. Merfolk are AMAZING... in an aquatic campaign. Even with the Strongtail trait, 15' is REALLY slow, and I believe it gets slowed by armor as well. They have great stats, but they just don't have the speed to be useful in land-based campaigns (probably about 90% of them).
Strix are cool, and that fly speed is great, but they don't get any offensive bonuses, and as Derek pointed out, are HIGHLY xenophobic to boot. Fly speed is neat, but it's hardly game breaking.
Ah, Hobgoblins. I love hobgoblins. However, I don't love them for their stats. Their attributes are TERRIBLE. Sure, they look great on paper, but look what other races get:
Saving Throw bonuses
Spell Penetration
Bonus Feats
Bonuses to 3 different skills
Spell-Like abilities
What do Hobgoblins get? Darkvision and a bonus to stealth. THAT'S IT. Sure, they have NO drawbacks, but without any big bonuses, they're pretty average as far as power is concerned.
Some races look good on paper, but aren't really all that great. Merfolk are AMAZING... in an aquatic campaign. Even with the Strongtail trait, 15' is REALLY slow, and I believe it gets slowed by armor as well. They have great stats, but they just don't have the speed to be useful in land-based campaigns (probably about 90% of them).
1 level of Barbarian and they're up to 25' now they're faster than dwarves. Go monk and look out!
|
|
@Jodokai: True, but at that point, they're playing about on-par with their strengths.
Yeah, they're hard to hit with that +2 Natural Armor and an inherent Dex bonus, but they have no Strength bonus (which will be fine, since they can dump Cha more easily than most Barbs).
So you've got a Barbarian that's a little slower than most, likely can't wear medium armor without really slowing down, and no other racial benefits other than "being tough to hit", which is nice, yes, but it's not really overpowered or anything.
The whole flying Strix thing is balanced by an RP factor: their extreme hatred of humans. Take that away and goodbye balance.
|
I like some of the Halfling stuff from the ARG. So much so that they are probably my second choice to human for many classes. Half-Orcs got a boost as well. And until they errata some of the alternate racial traits I'll let my players dump dark vision for skill points and then drop ferocity for even better dark vision (at least I think those are the traits that are replaced - don't have my book in front of me).
I'm not exactly sure why everyone considers Sulis a powerful race (I mean, resistance to 4 different energies is nice, but that's about it). Drow have never struck me as overpowered either (excluding the drow noble of course), and Duergar are mainly good at low levels, where their abilities really help them shine (though once the party catches up, those abilities quickly start to lose their value).
Also, as far as the Strix 'hatred for humans' element, that's pretty easy to get around, even from an rping standpoint (after all, just because I hate you doesn't mean that I don't know how to manipulate you). Tis very easy to hide one's anger, especially when using humans to their advantage.
The merfolk really makes for an excellent sorcerer (I've rarely seen a sorcerer rush to the front lines in any campaign). With the strong tail class feature, ur really no slower than a small character in heavy/medium armor (besides, boots of striding and springing anyone?...or maybe even dem fly spells, or mount).
Just my opinion anyway, but I'd be glad to hear what races u feel are strong and why.
Oh, and one more thing: Human, Azlanti Pureblood = total bs ;)
Should be noted that races no longer have an ECL and are not balanced against each other.
Good point! Now that the ARG is out and everyone has drooled over it all summer, any ideas on how to actually balance races into the game? I personally like Umbral Reaver's suggestion that of equating 'build points for races' to 'character points' as the most elegant solution.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Hey everyone. I just finished looking over some of the new races from the Advanced Race Guide, and I was curious to learn what everyone thought about them. Currently, while I haven't been able to find one yet, I was hoping to locate some sort of 'guide to races' but I sadly haven't come across any yet.
Therefore, I guess I can try to go into detail about some of the races that I think are above and beyond the rest (again, just my opinions, but feel free to provide your own take)
(Again, keep in mind that these are listed in no particular order)
1) Human - extra skill point, +2 in any ability score, and extra feat. Solid choice for almost any class.
2) Merfolk - Wow...a net gain +6 to ability scores, with the only real drawback being that they have a land speed of 5 feet. However, due to the 'strong tail' feature, they can easily get their speed bumped up to 15 feet. Really seems to shine as a Paladin or Sorcerer.
3) Strix - This race is just sick for one real reason: the ability to fly. Seriously, that one ability just puts this race above and beyond on so many levels. Plus, they can gain nice racial bonuses to their saving throws as well. Good for almost ANY class.
4) Hobgoblin - Again, a net gain of +4 to ability scores with no real drawbacks. An overall solid choice and good for almost ANY class.
5) Aasimar - Yeah, a +4 net gain to ability scores with resistance to 3 different types of energy. In addition, when u factor in the insane versatility of the Aasimar Heritage variations, its just plain sick. Again, good for almost ANY class.
6)Svirfneblin - This thing is a monster: SR equal to 11 + their class levels, +2 racial bonus on ALL saves, and some really good spell-like abilities. This little guy seems like he was MADE to be a sick wizard, druid, or even a witch or cleric.
7) Tiefling - Pretty much like Aasimar, and has an INSANE amount of benefits when given the fiendish heritage. A fairly solid choice for any class...
I think this would be a great topic for my next guide, unless anyone has already called it...?
Fetchlings and Suli aren't game breakingly overpowered either.
shadow blending is useless against foes with darkvision, which most creatures tend to have. and it doesn't help against other senses either.
shadow resistances are relatively easy to ignore and don't come up too often. the racial bonuses might look good for a ninja, but not much else, and the spell like abilities, which are delayed in acquisition are just selfish ways to escape for a day.
and the Suli. resistance to all 4 elements. not really too big and easily forgotten. plus they are quadruple charged for elemental assault. and they pay the price of darkvision, despite not getting it.
the aasimaar isn't too great either.
bonuses to wisdom and charisma with no penalty, only good for the few clerics suboptimal enough to want to channel spam. daylight is a worthless spell like ability. darkness is much better. the substitutions aren't too amazing unless you fight a lot of evil outsiders. and the variant heritages have little else besides attribute bonuses and a single once per day spell.
hobgoblins only gain their attribute bonuses and little else.
merfolk are slow as molasses unless they take a substitution that lets then move like heavily armored gnomes. and that's if you wear light armor.
strix can fly, but it's no faster than a walking human without heavy resource expenditure and they don't have much for attribute bonuses.
duergar, as said shine at the low levels, but other classes can eventually mimic some of their immunities.
drow are no stronger than any other player race, and drow nobles sacrifice a whole level to get their goodies. or a drow can spend a bunch of feats to mimic them. if i had to choose to be a drow noble or a drow with the advanced creature template, i would take the darn template.
azlanti purebloods are just humans with a crappier version of the advanced creature template. if i wanted superior human genes for that ECL hit, i would just take the template and say screw being a pureblooded azlanti.
half orcs can do a series of substitutions that give them skilled and darkvision 90. i see it as a neccessary buff. half orcs suck.
tieflings have a few interesting substitutions and heritages, like aasimaars do. but they are so niche specific and so deadlocked that there isn't a lot you can do. and why turn your perfect wizard race into a perfect monk race? nothing is ever going to fix monks short of a new edition and we know this.
halflings are slow, and have limited offensive capacity unless you find a way to increase their damage so high that their small size no longer matters. there are two major tricks for this.
To be honest, I would enjoy seeing a 'Guide for Races' as well as a 'Guide for Armor/Weapons/Magic Items'. From what I can tell, those are probably the only guides that haven't been made yet (well, aside from a guide to spells and feats, but those would seem VERY long).
The list I compiled above was just a 'rough outline' for a guide, basically introducing some of the strongest races that Pathfinder has to offer.
On a side note, I still think Hobgoblins are a very solid choice, even when compared to other races who have solid alternate features as well. Fore example...
Half-Orc: Sacred Tattoo is, in my opinion, an amazing choice for half-orcs. A +1 luck bonus to all saves is REALLY useful.
Dwarves: Magic Resistant is nice, but their Hardy ability is already fairly impressive.
Elves: Elemental Resistance stands out the most, but there are a few other alternatives to help make the elf better in particular classes.
Gnome: Okay, I won't lie, I don't play gnomes, and I really didn't find anything impressive about them anyway (aside from spell-like abilities).
Half-Elves: Dual Minded isn't bad, but I'm honestly not overly impressed with the race as a whole.
Halfling: Fleet of Foot and Halfing Luck are both good, but that's about it.
Again, this is just my view of the core races, and while I know that certain racial variations are designed to help with 'specific classes', not all of them really measure up.
In addition, all of the above classes have a net gain of +2 on ability scores, meaning that other races (like Hobgoblin for example ;) ) really do have a tactical advantage. Anyways, those are just my thoughts, but please dont' ask me to look over all the 'racial feats' (I won't do it, seriously)
Anyways, as I said, an 'actual guide' for this stuff would be greatly appreciated :P
FWIW I concur. Some players think of race first when imagining a character concept. The Guide for Races could be a primer to highlight which classes optimize racial attributes and discuss the trade-offs of the various alternate racial traits and feats.
For example, in the section of dwarves, Empyreal Sorcerers would be identified as a good choice to emphasize Wisdom instead of Charisma. Then, a player could then review a Sorcerer guide for in depth build analysis.
cheers
There are some players who really enjoy specific races and have explored how their race can be the best melee, ranged or controller characters. Maybe we can recruit them to write a section on their preferred race.
cheers
Regarding the Merfolk...
Mounts, synthesists, and flying carpets.
Broken.
1 level of Barbarian and they're up to 25' now they're faster than dwarves. Go monk and look out!
Some races look good on paper, but aren't really all that great. Merfolk are AMAZING... in an aquatic campaign. Even with the Strongtail trait, 15' is REALLY slow, and I believe it gets slowed by armor as well. They have great stats, but they just don't have the speed to be useful in land-based campaigns (probably about 90% of them).
CHARGE!
*flop flop flop flop flop flop flop flop flop flop*
1 level of Barbarian and they're up to 25' now they're faster than dwarves. Go monk and look out!
Some races look good on paper, but aren't really all that great. Merfolk are AMAZING... in an aquatic campaign. Even with the Strongtail trait, 15' is REALLY slow, and I believe it gets slowed by armor as well. They have great stats, but they just don't have the speed to be useful in land-based campaigns (probably about 90% of them).CHARGE!
*flop flop flop flop flop flop flop flop flop flop*
Clearly their levels in Barbarian have allowed them to do the worm.
Asimars and Tieflings have some very good resistances and they are immune to any spell that targets humanoids specificaly. They were considered powerful enough to be ECL +1 races back in the day.
They've come pretty close to making other races obsolete from anything beyond a role-play reason. Their abilities plus being able to choose pretty much any stat combination you need doesn't leave much for others. The only thing not going for them is favored class bonuses.
Asimars and Tieflings have some very good resistances and they are immune to any spell that targets humanoids specificaly. They were considered powerful enough to be ECL +1 races back in the day.
Standard races got a healthy bump up in the transition from 3.5 to Pathfinder though, while Aasimar and Tiefling didn't get any upgrades (at least until Blood of Fiends/Angels came out).
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Hey everyone. I just finished looking over some of the new races from the Advanced Race Guide, and I was curious to learn what everyone thought about them. Currently, while I haven't been able to find one yet, I was hoping to locate some sort of 'guide to races' but I sadly haven't come across any yet.
Therefore, I guess I can try to go into detail about some of the races that I think are above and beyond the rest (again, just my opinions, but feel free to provide your own take)
(Again, keep in mind that these are listed in no particular order)
1) Human - extra skill point, +2 in any ability score, and extra feat. Solid choice for almost any class.
2) Merfolk - Wow...a net gain +6 to ability scores, with the only real drawback being that they have a land speed of 5 feet. However, due to the 'strong tail' feature, they can easily get their speed bumped up to 15 feet. Really seems to shine as a Paladin or Sorcerer.
3) Strix - This race is just sick for one real reason: the ability to fly. Seriously, that one ability just puts this race above and beyond on so many levels. Plus, they can gain nice racial bonuses to their saving throws as well. Good for almost ANY class.
4) Hobgoblin - Again, a net gain of +4 to ability scores with no real drawbacks. An overall solid choice and good for almost ANY class.
5) Aasimar - Yeah, a +4 net gain to ability scores with resistance to 3 different types of energy. In addition, when u factor in the insane versatility of the Aasimar Heritage variations, its just plain sick. Again, good for almost ANY class.
6)Svirfneblin - This thing is a monster: SR equal to 11 + their class levels, +2 racial bonus on ALL saves, and some really good spell-like abilities. This little guy seems like he was MADE to be a sick wizard, druid, or even a witch or cleric.
7) Tiefling - Pretty much like Aasimar, and has an INSANE amount of benefits when given the fiendish heritage. A fairly solid choice for any class...
I've begun writing this, so I thought I'd get the opinions of the masses on what I have so far. I've written up dwarves at this point.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Cart - think you need to consider the substitution options in the context of what they're replacing.
"Stubborn" is a crap ability. You rate it as the Greatest ability. In most contexts, it would be fine, but it replaces Hardy, which is spectacular.
Basically, you trade +2 on all spell-related saves for +2 on will saves for compulsion or charm, and the ability to get a second roll.
That's a lousy trade. Any good party is going to be able to negate the compulsion or charm on you by the second rounnd. And you're going to miss the +2 to reflex, fort and poison saves.
-Cross (Magic Resistant, for instance, at least provides a solid benefit. It has a 20% chance of affecting a spell, whereas Hardy has a 10% chance)
I think I have to disagree with you here, while +2 vs. All spell effects is great, getting a second save against something like dominate person can mean the difference between a total party kill by your own fighter and taking out the big bad guy. Rerolls are always better than flat bonuses, in my opinion.
Cart, good start. Maybe flesh out the classes section more by listing all classes. Then, you can evaluate how the dwarf does with them. For example, barbarian compensates for slow speed and uses the CON bonus for rages. Sorcerer is red unless Emphyreal which uses WIS not CHA. Ranger uses WIS bonus for spells and can be specialized as two-hander, sword & board, TWF or switch hitter. Monk's use WIS and CON and compensate for slow speed. Gunslinger also uses WIS for grit but that's about it. Basically, summarizing how to optimize classes based on the selection of dwarf as a race, as opposed to the Class Guide of how to optimize race with the selection of the class.
Maybe combine the classes section with the Favored Classes comments.
cheers
Of note, Benly, if we're talking PFS, the d100 table is not legal.
Regarding the SLAs, certain ones are really, really good. Oni-Spawn and Angelkin both get Alter Self, which can be quite good, and synergizes exceptionally well with their racial stat bonuses. Foulspawn get Bear's Endurance, which can be quite potent.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
Of note, Benly, if we're talking PFS, the d100 table is not legal.
Regarding the SLAs, certain ones are really, really good. Oni-Spawn and Angelkin both get Alter Self, which can be quite good, and synergizes exceptionally well with their racial stat bonuses. Foulspawn get Bear's Endurance, which can be quite potent.
I'm not talking specifically PFS, and I didn't think the thread was PFS-specific. That said, I did say either unavailable or had to be rolled on - the point is, either way you can't just pick "oversized weapons" or "extra +2 to my casting stat".
Alter Self is a nice perk, but I have a really hard time seeing a 1/day SLA, even a pretty good one, as being especially defining. It's nice, but ultimately the most you get out of it for its duration is +2 Str and natural weapons. That's nothing to complain about, but I can't consider it a major component of a build when it's 1/day. Glitterdust, Pyrotechnics and Web also fall into that category - they're great spells, but 1/day.
Yeah, Tiefling and Aasimar have so many options that they're going to make my life very hard when I get to them. That's why I wanted to start with Core races, cuz there are already tons of options for each of those.
Fetchlings and Suli aren't game breakingly overpowered either.
shadow blending is useless against foes with darkvision, which most creatures tend to have. and it doesn't help against other senses either.
shadow resistances are relatively easy to ignore and don't come up too often. the racial bonuses might look good for a ninja, but not much else, and the spell like abilities, which are delayed in acquisition are just selfish ways to escape for a day.
and the Suli. resistance to all 4 elements. not really too big and easily forgotten. plus they are quadruple charged for elemental assault. and they pay the price of darkvision, despite not getting it.
the aasimaar isn't too great either.
bonuses to wisdom and charisma with no penalty, only good for the few clerics suboptimal enough to want to channel spam. daylight is a worthless spell like ability. darkness is much better. the substitutions aren't too amazing unless you fight a lot of evil outsiders. and the variant heritages have little else besides attribute bonuses and a single once per day spell.
hobgoblins only gain their attribute bonuses and little else.
merfolk are slow as molasses unless they take a substitution that lets then move like heavily armored gnomes. and that's if you wear light armor.
strix can fly, but it's no faster than a walking human without heavy resource expenditure and they don't have much for attribute bonuses.
duergar, as said shine at the low levels, but other classes can eventually mimic some of their immunities.
drow are no stronger than any other player race, and drow nobles sacrifice a whole level to get their goodies. or a drow can spend a bunch of feats to mimic them. if i had to choose to be a drow noble or a drow with the advanced creature template, i would take the darn template.
azlanti purebloods are just humans with a crappier version of the advanced creature template. if i wanted superior human genes for that ECL hit, i would just take the template and say screw being a pureblooded azlanti.
half orcs can do a series of substitutions that give them skilled and darkvision 90. i see it as a neccessary buff. half orcs suck.
tieflings have a few interesting substitutions and heritages, like aasimaars do. but they are so niche specific and so deadlocked that there isn't a lot you can do. and why turn your perfect wizard race into a perfect monk race? nothing is ever going to fix monks short of a new edition and we know this.
halflings are slow, and have limited offensive capacity unless you find a way to increase their damage so high that their small size no longer matters. there are two major tricks for this.
After reading that, I'm wondering if there are any races you do like? :P
(Guessing human is the most likely.)
I've begun writing this, so I thought I'd get the opinions of the masses on what I have so far. I've written up dwarves at this point.
Races of Pathfinder (Dwarves)
Alright I have read it up and like it so far, Just a couple of suggestions.
I am of the belief that hardy is as good, if not better than stubborn and heres the reasons why. As a dwarf with hardy, you have access to steel soul, increasing your saves vs spells to +4, if you also take a class like barbarian or paladin, adding superstitious or your char mod to that can make you largely impervious to magic. That +4 is worth 7 levels of your best save and 11 levels of your worst saves. That is ALOT. Also, while the reroll is really useful, it happens a round after you are affected and most of the damage is done by then or someone can help you by then. You also give up the bonuses to all other spells and poison. Granted, compulsion spells are some of the worst out there so it is a trade off. As such I would rate them even, probably both blue.You also rated the stonelord paladin orange and green on two different occasions. Personally I would rate it green or even blue as it makes an excellent tank class. The bonus to con and wis will be welcome and the only things you have that are affected by cha is your lay on hands and channel abilities. Since you lose most of your mercies and your ability to channel (except as the elemental channel also dependant on your lay on hands) you could have cha as a dump stat or keep it 10 to have some small ability to heal yourself. At level 8 you become immune to compulsion so thats a plus for the hardy trait and steel soul should make you quite resistant to spells negating most of the loss of divine grace. An earth elemental makes an excellent tanking pet and beside you and allows you to cover a large front.
The class is also full of flavour and I always get the image of a dwarf in stoneplate with a stone tower shield wielding a stone warhamer and a stone bolder helm XD
A good last remark is to warn that there is some debate about what exactly the earth channel ability gives you. Does it replace channel positive energy? Can you even use elemental channel as it replaces channel positive energy?
As for the gunslinger class, I dont have a whole lot of experience with that, but my understanding is that dex is key, and not having a racial bonus to that is big. Having a bonus to wis is quite useful as grit is valuable and comes in small amounts. Most attempting to go gunslinger ether go two weapon pistols or go long ranged single rifle. The two weapon pistols needs as much dex as humanly possible and the dwarf fails at this, the long ranged rifle really needs the musket master to be able to reload his weapons in any kind of timely fashion and the dwarf is at best ok with this. The general consensus on these forums is that if you want to go gunslinger you need to be one of these two to be optimal as the others just arnt as viable. The mysterious stranger fails because it needs to spend grit on every attack to get its damage and the gun tank is less optimal because high dex and heavy armour generally dont go well together. Armour training helps alleviate this but gunslingers are usually quite feat staved to begin with and that is not a good trade off. You also put alot of focus into defence when you generally try to stay off the front lines anyways, if you face alot of guns, ok, if you face alot of spells, not so much. You also run into the problem of what weapon to use, you can stack it with pistlero but TWF makes you REALLY feat starved, or you could go with a rifle, but at best you can fire once per round as you cant stack it with musket master.
So if you want your gunslinging dwarf, your best bet is to go musket master (ok at best) or gun tank (quite sub optimal but flavourful). I would rate this a red for gun tank or a orange for musket master. I would also rate your favoured class bonus as blue as that is really good, just on a bad class/character matchup ;)
Lastly I would like to see a bit on the alternate classes (the antipaladin, ninja, and samurai) if you are willing to go there. You might also want to start up your own post to kinda centralize it. Good luck I think you took on a truly monstrous undertaking this time and if its like your last guide, I look forward to seeing it come to fruition! I also cant wait till you get to goblins but that is a pipe dream at this point XS
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
|
I've begun writing this, so I thought I'd get the opinions of the masses on what I have so far. I've written up dwarves at this point.
Races of Pathfinder (Dwarves)
Alright I have read it up and like it so far, Just a couple of suggestions.
I am of the belief that hardy is as good, if not better than stubborn and heres the reasons why. As a dwarf with hardy, you have access to steel soul, increasing your saves vs spells to +4, if you also take a class like barbarian or paladin, adding superstitious or your char mod to that can make you largely impervious to magic. That +4 is worth 7 levels of your best save and 11 levels of your worst saves. That is ALOT. Also, while the reroll is really useful, it happens a round after you are affected and most of the damage is done by then or someone can help you by then. You also give up the bonuses to all other spells and poison. Granted, compulsion spells are some of the worst out there so it is a trade off. As such I would rate them even, probably both blue.You also rated the stonelord paladin orange and green on two different occasions. Personally I would rate it green or even blue as it makes an excellent tank class. The bonus to con and wis will be welcome and the only things you have that are affected by cha is your lay on hands and channel abilities. Since you lose most of your mercies and your ability to channel (except as the elemental channel also dependant on your lay on hands) you could have cha as a dump stat or keep it 10 to have some small ability to heal yourself. At level 8 you become immune to compulsion so thats a plus for the hardy trait and steel soul should make you quite resistant to spells negating most of the loss of divine grace. An earth elemental makes an excellent tanking pet and beside you and allows you to cover a large front.
The class is also full of flavour and I always get the image of a dwarf in stoneplate with a stone tower shield wielding a stone warhamer and a stone bolder helm XD
A good...
Gobo, thank you so much for this feedback. You hit on a lot of points that I had not gotten to yet, and that really helps me out. I hadn't even looked at racial feats, but now that you mention Steel Soul you are totally right about Stubborn, that is a HUGE bonus against spell effects. I'll be reflecting that in the writeup.
The stonelord is an interesting one, because really charisma is the basis of the Paladin, but you have a good point that several of the abilities that usually would require a high Cha bonus are replaced with flat bonuses, such as heartstone replacing divine grace. I'm going to go green with the Stonelord and expand the description a bit.
I dislike the gunslinger so much that I really have a hard time writing about it. That's just personal preference and I'm trying not to let that keep me from doing a good writeup, so I will definitely take your suggestions into account on that one.
Once I get a little farther into the guide (probably when I finish the core races) I'll make a feedback thread specifically for it. Thanks again for your feedback!
Asimars and Tieflings have some very good resistances and they are immune to any spell that targets humanoids specificaly. They were considered powerful enough to be ECL +1 races back in the day.
Read what they are actually typed as and what that template does.
Asimars and Tieflings have some very good resistances and they are immune to any spell that targets humanoids specificaly. They were considered powerful enough to be ECL +1 races back in the day.Read what they are actually typed as and what that template does.
Native Outsider: Aasimars are outsiders with the native subtype.
An outsider is at least partially composed of the essence (but not necessarily the material) of some plane other than the Material Plane. Some creatures start out as some other type and become outsiders when they attain a higher (or lower) state of spiritual existence. An outsider has the following features.
d10 Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to total Hit Dice (fast progression).
Two good saving throws, usually Reflex and Will.
Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for outsiders: Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme.Traits: An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).
Darkvision 60 feet.
Unlike most living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don't work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.
Proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Outsiders not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Outsiders are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
Outsiders breathe, but do not need to eat or sleep (although they can do so if they wish). Native outsiders breathe, eat, and sleep.
Native Subtype: This subtype is applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane. Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep.
Scion of Humanity: Some aasimars' heavenly ancestry is extremely distant. An aasimar with this racial trait counts as an outsider (native) and a humanoid (human) for any effect related to race, including feat prerequisites and spells that affect humanoids. She can pass for human without using the Disguise skill. This racial trait replaces the Celestial language and alters the native subtype.
Outsiders...check.
Native...check.Alternative racial trait to make them humanoid type...check.
I'm a bit confused on what he was supposed to read to change his view...
|
|
Asimars and Tieflings have some very good resistances and they are immune to any spell that targets humanoids specificaly. They were considered powerful enough to be ECL +1 races back in the day.Read what they are actually typed as and what that template does.Only when people deliberately misread the Outsider template to give weapon proficiencies you're not supposed to get without Outsider hit dice.
But the resistances and the immunities are still a potent package.
The Tiefling Vivisectionist Beastmorph Alchemist I just built is a literal BEAST. You get Claws at level 1 (basically free TWF with daggers when full attacking), Resist 5 to Fire, Electric, and Acid, a Prehensile Tail to retrieve things from off your body or out of bags as a swift action, and then at level 1 I took the +2 Natural Armor feat. What other race grants +2 Natural AC with a feat? For a Monk or a Natural Weapon character keeping that Neckslot open for your Amulet of Mighty Fists is a pretty solid strategy...well getting +2 Natural AC off the bat is a good way of keeping that slot open.
After reading that, I'm wondering if there are any races you do like? :P
(Guessing human is the most likely.)
i was talking in perceived mechanical terms.
i actually like Humans, all 8 species of Planetouched, Samsaran, and the occasional Elf.
i am even willing to criticize my own Pet Races and Favorite Classes. i try not to be blind to a character's shortcomings when possible.
Looks great Cartmanbeck
Made me want to play a dwarf.
I see this one being a long process..
Thanks for all the hard work.
Is it possible to make a Dragonlance Irda with the ARG?
I know this thread is a little old, but I still can't wait to see how the 'race guide' is coming along. Currently, I've been experimenting with my own research into a few races, and here are a few of my favorite...
Hobgoblin - I really do think this is the 'jack of all trades' race for a lot of reason. After all, not only do you get a +4 net gain in abilities scores (2 physical ability scores which are always relevant to any class no less), you also get darkvision, stealth as a class skill, a nice bonus to stealth, and the ability to speak goblin as well. Currently, hobgoblin has qualified itself as my new favorite race for an alchemist (vivisectionist internal alchemist of course).
Merfolk - If anyone out there is wanting to use a charisma based class, its really hard to do better than a merfolk. I mean, a +6 net gain to your ability scores is essentially unheard of, and with ability to breath underwater, low-light vision, a nice swim speed, and a 15 foot land speed...yea, Merfolk are pretty much amazing at everything...even in non-aquatic campaigns.
Vanaras - Two words: Zen Archer. Like, seriously...these guys were MADE to be incredible zen archers. Furthermore, all of their abilities are relevant for a monk, and the climb speed can really be helpful when combined with a bow.
Catfolk - This race has some really amazing options: claws, climb speed, scent, etc. Overall, catfolk really do seem to shine as ninjas and rogues, although a bard, summoner, or paladin could also work in their favor too.
Aasimars/Tieflings - Racial heritages really give these guys a lot of flavor, and the resistance and skill bonuses are nice perks as well. Tieflings arguable have much better alternate racial traits, but if you have access to alternate Aasimar/tiefling abilities (basically that block that lets you trade out your spell-like ability for a different benefit) then this races can REALLY shine.
But yea, I'm still eagerly waiting for Cartmanbeck's race guide. Hope he finishes it soon.
Quite frankly, I think that both Aasimars and Tieflings are considerably overpowered compared to the main races, Aasimars especially.
I'd have to disagree with that based off both number crunching and actually seeing an Aasimar in play.
How about a list for homebrew races too. You need a particular kinda BBEG, bam, make him of an odd race...a very bad example, yes, but you get the point. I'm looking at you Icyshadow...