The problem with that interpretation, Wraith, is that it may actually screw over the non-crafting players once the game starts. If you're counting their equipment at full, but the wizard's at 1/2, then what ends up happening is the WBL guidelines begin to cut down on the treasure that shows up, because the crafter is outstripping the non-crafters. He's basically doubling his share of the treasure, if he's got say Wondrous Item. Since you have to take the whole party WBL into account when dropping treasure, that means the treasure goes down, and the party is splitting a smaller and smaller share to stay in WBL guidelines, but the crafter is always doubling what he actually gets, which pushes him farther ahead of everyone else, which exacerbates the problem.The way I understood Gauss’s explanation was that you count each member's wealth individually. That leads to more book keeping, but a GM could put items in the game specifically for certain characters.
Doesn't work unless you dictate to the players. "Hey, Bill, you have 175% WBL from crafting, you can't have any of the treasure." Bill : "You're an arrogant **** and you are punishing me for having a feat, I quit!".
Seriously, you can't dictate to the players who get's what treasure. Even if you put in something intended for A, player B can talk them into selling it and splitting the funds.
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mdt: That is the beauty of it. Since you only count the cost of the items that the crafter crafted for himself his WBL is exactly where it should be. There is no reduction to the treasure piles. (Assuming the crafter is counting the cost of crafted items and the non-crafters are counting the price of thier items.)
10th level Group of a 4 PCs. One (a Ranger) has Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Arms and Armor.
Each has 62000gp according to WBL.
The Ranger has the following items:
+3 Mithral Breastplate: 13200price 8700cost
+3 Weapon: 18300price 9300cost
+3 Weapon: 18300price 9300cost
+1 Ranged Weapon: 2300price 1300cost
+2 Amulet of Natural Armor: 8000price 4000cost
+2 Ring of Deflection: 8000price (did not craft)
Ring of Sustenance: 2500price (did not craft)
+2 Belt of Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution 16,000price 8,000cost
+2 Headband of Wisdom 4000price 2000cost
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone 5000price 2500cost
+2 Cloak of Resistance 4000price 2000cost
Pearl of Power 1 (x4) 4000price 2000cost
Pearl of Power 2 (x1) 4000price 2000cost
Totals: 107600price 61600cost
The rest of the group has 62,000gp worth of non-crafted equipment. Even if the Ranger crafted it for them it counts against WBL via price not cost.
So: the group has
PC1 Ranger: 107600price and 61600cost
PC2: 62000price
PC3: 62000price
PC4: 62000price
The groups average WBL: (61600+62000+62000+62000)/4 = 247600/4 = 61900
This is right in line with WBL.
How NOT to calculate it: (107600+62000+62000+62000)/4 = 73400 (which would look like the group is over by 11400gp)
Now, some people will say: HOLY CRAP BATMAN! That Ranger has 46000gp over everyone else! But if we go back to my earlier posts I show how in reality he is getting (on average) a +1attack, +1damage, +1AC for the Craft Arms and Armor feat and (on average) +1 to an ability score, +1 saving throws for the Craft Wondrous Item feat.
If you allow non-crafters to benefit from the crafter's feat then the crafter loses big time. At that point everyone looks like the crafter above but they didnt spend 2 feats each to accomplish this. The crafter will be down two effective feats relative to his compatriots.
- Gauss
The problem with that interpretation, Wraith, is that it may actually screw over the non-crafting players once the game starts. If you're counting their equipment at full, but the wizard's at 1/2, then what ends up happening is the WBL guidelines begin to cut down on the treasure that shows up, because the crafter is outstripping the non-crafters. He's basically doubling his share of the treasure, if he's got say Wondrous Item. Since you have to take the whole party WBL into account when dropping treasure, that means the treasure goes down, and the party is splitting a smaller and smaller share to stay in WBL guidelines, but the crafter is always doubling what he actually gets, which pushes him farther ahead of everyone else, which exacerbates the problem.The way I understood Gauss’s explanation was that you count each member's wealth individually. That leads to more book keeping, but a GM could put items in the game specifically for certain characters.Doesn't work unless you dictate to the players. "Hey, Bill, you have 175% WBL from crafting, you can't have any of the treasure." Bill : "You're an arrogant **** and you are punishing me for having a feat, I quit!".
Seriously, you can't dictate to the players who get's what treasure. Even if you put in something intended for A, player B can talk them into selling it and splitting the funds.
They can split the money, but it is unlikely that Brian the Barbarian is going to sell the newly found +3 keen greatsword, and give his money to the guy who can already make his own stuff or to any other party member. It is counter-intuitive. This also assumes that Brian is the only person using a greatsword. Even in games without crafting everyone's treasure is not exactly the same. My job as a GM is to present the treasure. If Brian does choose to sell it that is on him.
PS:I also normally play with cooperative players so giving the item to whoever can use it the best is never an issue. If the players don't work together I have issues bigger than crafting at my table.
Awww and I missed the removed post. :(
- Gauss
All, I think we have lost the focus of this thread. The thread was meant to gather information for Sean in what he should clarify on magic item crafting for the upcoming book.
Let's all agree that WBL needs to be clarified, and if you want to continue the discussion, can we please start another thread?
However, what I do feel we should do is clarify to Sean on what we are asking in regards to WBL, instead of him having to sift through 3+ pages of discussion on it.
1) How does WBL work exactly with a character who has an magic item creation feat?
Sean, I think your FAQ answer on this question is a very good start, but what about that character's WBL for items he receives in treasure (not half-price) and items he creates (half-price). Do you need to keep a running total seperating the two?
2)And this question is the key one, and what has spawned the last several pages of discussion, but how does the magic item creation feats work for the party? Can I craft items at half price for my party members?
Can they also gain the benefit of double the WBL if I choose to continue to craft items for them at half price?
If anyone feels I missed anything, please feel free to pipe in.
Edit: Sean, can you also please add the info you put in your FAQ in the book, as well? For those of us who visit and follow Paizo.com have seen it, but it would be nice to have it in the book for my DM to see, instead of showing him a print out from the website. And I am sure there are similar situations in other groups, as well.
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I just want to throw in that not everyone cares about WBL. Some people see it as a guideline for creating higher level characters and not much more. I don't think my group has ever even looked at the WBL table any other time. For such games, there's nothing stopping a crafter from crafting for the group except time, money and how nice of a guy he is (not that I think that's a bad thing). If we make it that far in our current AP, I'll be crafting for the NPCs in the group too, but my character is a crafting specialist so I feel it's balanced overall.
Oh yes, I am sure there are those, like yourself, who do not use WBL. But there are also many that do, including my DM.
And since there are rules (guidelines) in the game dealing with it, I think there should be a section in the upcoming book that deals with it in regards to creating magic items, as it can be a bit confusing, as shown by the need of the FAQ Sean wrote, and the large discussion on this thread.
But just like you haven't implemented WBL already, any clarifications Sean puts in the upcoming book about it you would not need to implement, as well.
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I have queation about Alchemist formula for craft.
you said extracts are "not spell" so, alchemist's formula is not requirement for craft any item (except for potion).
but for UItimate Equipment, there are many items for alchemist, such as "vest for stable mutation" it says only alchemist can make.
or sipping jacket is require amplify elixir (the only alchemist)
so, i want to know alchemist's formula isnt match for general item create rule for requirement?
@Hobbun, such clarifications would be fine, as long as they don't elevate a guideline to a hard-and-fast rule, and as long as people on the boards realize that not everyone plays the game the same way they do. (There's many, many posts in many threads that already assume WBL is a metaphorical wall of force, which invalidates any conclusions drawn for many tables.)
Anyway, that comment was more directed at the WBL arguments rather than the actual questions.
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Given that the DM has no control over how his player characters distribute the loot that they gain from adventuring, Wealth by Level should really only govern two things:
1) How much equipment a newly created higher level player character comes into the game with. Such a character can benefit from his own craft feats but not from anybody else's because he only recently joined the other adventurers -- they might craft items for him later, but his starting equipment is based on what he had before he joined them. For this case it would be proper to limit how much can be spent on any single magic item because the character presumably did not get all of that treasure at once -- he got a little bit here and a little bit there just as the prior player characters did, and carrying around an ever increasing amount of money without spending it on useful magical equipment is not conducive to long term survival.
2) How much overall treasure the DM gives out to the party. The party distributes the treasure as they wish, and spends it as they wish constrained by your determination of what items are available. If a character makes a magic item, it does not matter whether he or somebody else ultimately owns and uses it because there is no reason for the DM to keep track of individual WBL after play begins.
David Knott: A GM DOES have some control over how his players distribute the loot. While he may not be able to tell them 'you give this item to this guy' he can custom tailor equipment to individuals. He can hand out specific items to specific individuals. He can give out cash only (thus promoting an even split) and if people do not perform an even split he can hand extra treasure out to those who have been shorted (would require reducing treasure later since the GM would have given out too much).
MagiMaster: My points about WBL are not intended to tell people to use WBL. My points are directed to people who see crafting as broken. I show why Crafting is not broken if you follow the rules/guidelines. Ie: if you ignore the rules/guidelines you cannot then complain that the something (crafting) the rules/guidelines are intended to control is broken.
- Gauss
David Knott: A GM DOES have some control over how his players distribute the loot. While he may not be able to tell them 'you give this item to this guy' he can custom tailor equipment to individuals. He can hand out specific items to specific individuals. He can give out cash only (thus promoting an even split) and if people do not perform an even split he can hand extra treasure out to those who have been shorted (would require reducing treasure later since the GM would have given out too much).
Just curious about this. Don't you count magic items as part of the treasure split? I thought everybody did so. Am I the only one?
I mean, if a treasure is a +1 sword, a diamond worth 1000g, and 2000g in cash, and there are 4 players, for me that's 4000g worth of treasure. Some people will take the diamond, others will take gold, and some other will take the magic item. I dont think that if you find a +4 holy sword, and 2000g, and you split it 500g each and then give the sword to the fighter, you can call that "even share of treasure".
gustavo iglesias:
Yes, some groups divide treasure evenly. IE: Total up all treasure amounts and split evenly.
Other groups simply assign the items as they feel they are best used. With this method certain players will wind up with the majority of the treasure unless the GM takes steps to correct it.
Many GMs do not wish to do this for a variety of reasons:
A) It is a hassle to figure out who has what amount of treasure
B) Some GMs want the players to work it out for themselves
C) any other reason imaginable.
The groups I play with divide treasure evenly. Sometimes it is not possible to divide evenly out of a single treasure split but in that case the player who is ahead claims less out of the next split.
The game assumes a certain wealth balance. A lot of these equipment/crafting problems are a result of groups/GMs who do not use those assumptions regarding treasure.
- Gauss
You split it up evenly if possible.
In any event you count the wealth the person has after the split.
I would like to see a matix of the bonus types and what spells are used as a template for the magic items.
I.E. is the luck bonus to armor based on a different spell as the luck bonus to saving throws.....
(and deflection, holy, profane etc...)
In an upcoming sourcebook, we're going to write additional material for the magic item crafting rules, further explaining and clarifying the nuances of how this works. I'm going to look over existing threads, FAQ entries, and FAQ-flagged threads, but I don't want anything to slip through the cracks, so I'm asking here: Is there anything else about the magic item crafting rules that could use more explanation or examples?
This has come up multiple times in our gameplay. What exactly do you need physically with you to craft magic items?
For example, if you have a masterwork ring or sword, do you still need a forge to make it magical? Or do you just need to meditate over it and cast spells into it?
We have had lively discussions whether you can craft in a wilderness or if you need a workstation. Some people argue that since you are not creating the item it seems to suggest you just cast spells into it or imbue it with power.
However, others suggest that since it costs a significant amount of gold, you must be buying supplies that takes significant resources (like forges, work benches, etc) to work into the item.
Thanks. What a wonderful idea for a thread.
Leem: The rules specifically state you do not need a workstation but at that point you are getting 1hour of result for every 2hours of work. It also states you can craft while adventuring but again at a ratio of 1hour gained for 2hours of work.
- Gauss
I dont think that if you find a +4 holy sword, and 2000g, and you split it 500g each and then give the sword to the fighter, you can call that "even share of treasure".
How we handle it is we split the gold evenly. Then if someone wants an item, they must pay the other characters their share of that item if it was sold.
So in your example, a plus 4 Holy sword is 72,000 new. If you sold it you could get 36,000 gold. If you divide that by 4 you get 9,000 gold per character in a party of four.
So if someone wanted the +4 Holy sword, he would either have to pay the 3 other players 9,000 gold each (or get them to loan them the money), or the could sell it as a group and the fighter takes his 9,000 gold and uses it for part of the cost of a 72,000 gold item. Obviously he is better off paying his party their share!
So the fighter/paladin paid 27,000 gold for a 72,000 gold item and everyone else gets their share of the loot. Everyone wins. Of course they could just sell everything and take the money to town and get what they want, but then the item they want needs to be in the town AND they have to pay full price for it, not half.
Win win win win win.
Leem: The rules specifically state you do not need a workstation but at that point you are getting 1hour of result for every 2hours of work. It also states you can craft while adventuring but again at a ratio of 1hour gained for 2hours of work.
- Gauss
Well...apparently we are all blind! lol. My gosh, you are right. How did 6 of us miss it? We must of assumed teh other person read it in better detail. From the prd:
The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item. The character must spend the gold at the beginning of the construction process. Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day. This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by +5.
leem:
The next paragraph:
The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours’ worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress ( just as with the adventuring caster).
- Gauss
leem:
The next paragraph:
The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours’ worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress ( just as with the adventuring caster).- Gauss
Yeah, I was actually trying to make the point that it is very obvious what the rules are and I am shocked that six veteran players missed it. I copied the paragraph to show how explicit the rules are, but I accidently copied two paragraphs, and then I accidently deleted the wrong one...making it look like I was sticking by my assertion it is not obvious.
Good thing humble pie doesn't taste so bad, cause I am eating a generous serving.
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Actual response to the OP's request
Sorry, I didn't want this to be buried under the current conversation.
How are extra-dimensional spaces calculated? What would be the formula of a Bag of Holding or a Handy Haversack, for example? If I wanted to create a Large Chest of Holding that was as large as a normal sized Large Chest but held as much as a Bag of Holding type IV, how would I figure out the cost mathematically?
What about an item that creates 500 square feet (possibly 5000 cubic feet,) of living space within an extra-dimensional space? How would someone figure that out?
It was Ad-hoc'd. There is no correlation between the bags of holding's space within or their weight limit that matches up with the pattern for the price of the item. I did do mathematical calculations, and there is no pattern, which means there is no formula.
In short you would have to use GM-fiat to figure it out. The type 3 bag seems to give the most value per gold piece.
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I seem to remember SKR, or maybe another Paizonian, mentioning they actually had a spreadsheet for Bags of Holding somewhere but that it was buried and would be too much of a pain to try and find it.
I mean, I think it is ad-hoc'd as well, but I just want to be sure.
1.Magic weapon or greater magic weapon seems like the best answer.
2.You should be able to use aid another. Cooperative Crafting gives you a +2 and it allows you to double the amount of work that you can get done.
3.By the rules no. A potion is a potion. A GM could allow it, but that would be GM Fiat. The game works better if you use the correct feat for the correct item. Craft Wondrous Item is already good enough. It's intent is for the creation of items that the other feats don't cover.
I dont think that if you find a +4 holy sword, and 2000g, and you split it 500g each and then give the sword to the fighter, you can call that "even share of treasure".How we handle it is we split the gold evenly. Then if someone wants an item, they must pay the other characters their share of that item if it was sold.
So in your example, a plus 4 Holy sword is 72,000 new. If you sold it you could get 36,000 gold. If you divide that by 4 you get 9,000 gold per character in a party of four.
So if someone wanted the +4 Holy sword, he would either have to pay the 3 other players 9,000 gold each (or get them to loan them the money),
That's what we do too. If it's not possible, because of available cash, the taker of the item will have a debt with the group, and will not take treasure until said debt is paid.
My surprise was because the poster I quoted seemed to imply that they did not do this way, but assign the magic item, then split the cash. Or that's what I understood.
Two questions:
1. I realise that there is a +5 difficulty for a requirement you don't meet but is there any other hinderance in making a +X skill item when you have no or low skills eg; a +10 umd item ?
2. There are a number of items that replicate feats, is there a standard cost for this and is there any thing prohibiting creating an "item crafting item" eg an anvil of armor and weaponsmithing (a miscellanious item that grants craft magic weapons and armor 5x per day ?
2a. Can somebody , moderator, put a faq at the top of the post to show what has been answered the thread is getting rather large.
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I started to read through all of the posts but got bogged down at around page 3. I apologize if all of these questions have been asked previously.
1. One of the characters in our game is using the 3.5 artificer class (big mistake, but that's another story...). We ran into a question while she was enchanting arms and armor and I can't seem to find an answer in the books. What spell is used to give arms and armor their enhancement bonus? The spells needed for special abilities are clearly outlined and it is clear that the player needs a caster level equal to three times the enhancement bonus, but no specific spell is mentioned.
This is particularly important for artificers since they have to roll to simulate it, but it made me wonder what spell that is in general. Is it a divine spell? An arcane spell?
My interpretation is that you don't need any spell to enchant the +X of weapons and armors. You use raw magical powers that come from your spellcasting class (or your maaster Craftman feat) an your Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat.
That way you need a minimum level of 3* the item bonus instead of needing spell X to enchant a +1 weapon and spell Y to enchant a +2.| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
That was my reading too. It seems like the kind of thing that'd be called out if it existed.
Also, my interpretation is that a basic +1 weapon or armor is one of the main reasons Master Craftsman was written.
Has this been addressed?
Is there a limit on crafting things that give skill check bonuses.
I.E. a 3rd level wizard with 3 ranks in hide crafts a wonderous item that provides a bonus.
Must he have that skill?
Can he craft with someone else aiding?
If he only has 3 ranks in that skill, is that his max?
VR
In an upcoming sourcebook, we're going to write additional material for the magic item crafting rules, further explaining and clarifying the nuances of how this works. I'm going to look over existing threads, FAQ entries, and FAQ-flagged threads, but I don't want anything to slip through the cracks, so I'm asking here: Is there anything else about the magic item crafting rules that could use more explanation or examples?
{snip}
Any other questions like this?
Hi Sean, (me again)
Whilst flipping through the APG the other day I stumbled across the feat "Cooperative Crafting" The text of which implies that if 2 or more people want to work on an item one of them has to have this feat. Doesn't this go against your last answer to me (from Wed, Aug 29, 2012, 05:14 PM)? Or did your answer assume that one (or more) of the team had that feat?
Of course could that also be a holdover from 3.5 when it cost XP to create an item? And so this became the way to share XP costs?
JohnBear
Actually, you do not need the feat to craft items with another person, the Core Rulebook already has rules on it.
Read Cooperative Crafting again. I have bolded the beneficial portions:
You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.
So no, you do not need someone else to help you craft an item normally, only if you want the +2 bonus and to double the GP value on what can be crafted in a day.
Actually, you do not need the feat to craft items with another person, the Core Rulebook already has rules on it.
Read Cooperative Crafting again. I have bolded the beneficial portions:
You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.So no, you do not need someone else to help you craft an item normally, only if you want the +2 bonus and to double the GP value on what can be crafted in a day.
Thanks you for the clarification. But if I have one rank in the skill, can i craft a bonus of say...+10?
Actually, you do not need the feat to craft items with another person, the Core Rulebook already has rules on it.
Read Cooperative Crafting again. I have bolded the beneficial portions:
You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.So no, you do not need someone else to help you craft an item normally, only if you want the +2 bonus and to double the GP value on what can be crafted in a day.
This seems the more powerful effect: your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.
So you make magic sword and armor in 1/2 the time.
Actually, you do not need the feat to craft items with another person, the Core Rulebook already has rules on it.
Read Cooperative Crafting again. I have bolded the beneficial portions:
You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.So no, you do not need someone else to help you craft an item normally, only if you want the +2 bonus and to double the GP value on what can be crafted in a day.
Thanks you for the clarification. But if I have one rank in the skill, can i craft a bonus of say...+10?
.
Well, I’m assuming you are talking about making a magic item, as you refer to a +10.But what kind of +10 are you talking about? Are you meaning on creating a weapon or armor? Or a wonderous item that gives a +10 to one of your skills?
I’m guessing you mean a weapon or armor. You would first need the relevant item creation feat, which would be Craft Magic Arms and Armor. This is mandatory and cannot be bypassed.
There is also rules indicated in the Core Rulebook that the case ‘must’ be 3x the level of the enhancement bonus. So in your +10 example, since you can only have up to a +5 (out of that +10) towards an enhancement bonus (the other +5 would be towards abilities), you would need to be then 15th level with the 3x level rule.
However, that is one of the things still in contention and needs clarification. Some say you can’t bypass that 3x level rule, some say you can take a +5 DC and bypass it.
So in the end, it’s not having a +1 (or +10) in your skill is what determines what you can make, it’s the feat. Although you of course need a high enough skill to make the roll. And if you are creating a +10 weapon, a +1 will almost assuredly not be enough.
Actually, you do not need the feat to craft items with another person, the Core Rulebook already has rules on it.
Read Cooperative Crafting again. I have bolded the beneficial portions:
You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.So no, you do not need someone else to help you craft an item normally, only if you want the +2 bonus and to double the GP value on what can be crafted in a day.
Thanks you for the clarification. But if I have one rank in the skill, can i craft a bonus of say...+10?
.
Well, I’m assuming you are talking about making a magic item, as you refer to a +10.But what kind of +10 are you talking about? Are you meaning on creating a weapon or armor? Or a wonderous item that gives a +10 to one of your skills?
I’m guessing you mean a weapon or armor. You would first need the relevant item creation feat, which would be Craft Magic Arms and Armor. This is mandatory and cannot be bypassed.
There is also rules indicated in the Core Rulebook that the case ‘must’ be 3x the level of the enhancement bonus. So in your +10 example, since you can only have up to a +5 (out of that +10) towards an enhancement bonus (the other +5 would be towards abilities), you would need to be then 15th level with the 3x level rule.
However, that is one of the things still in contention and needs clarification. Some say you can’t bypass that 3x level rule, some say you can take a +5 DC and bypass it.
So in the end, it’s not having a +1 (or +10) in your skill is what determines what you can make, it’s the feat. Although you of course need a high...
I was talking about a wonderous itme that can giv you a skill bonus.
I have not seen anything that limits the amount of bonus you can make...So if i have one rank in appraise, can i craft an item that gives me a "skill bonus" of +10 to the appriase skill?
Actually, you do not need the feat to craft items with another person, the Core Rulebook already has rules on it.
Read Cooperative Crafting again. I have bolded the beneficial portions:
You can assist another character in crafting mundane and magical items. You must both possess the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat, but either one of you can fulfill any other prerequisites for crafting the item. You provide a +2 circumstance bonus on any Craft or Spellcraft checks related to making an item, and your assistance doubles the gp value of items that can be crafted each day.
situation: wizard and cleric working together
Actually the RAW (in that specific feat - I bolded specifically what I'm referring to) implies that if I wanted to make a scroll of cure light wounds both the wizard and the cleric would have to have scribe scroll.
Thus that portion of the wording contradicts both the CRB AND Sean's answer to my earlier post/questions.
JohnBear
I was talking about a wonderous itme that can giv you a skill bonus.
I have not seen anything that limits the amount of bonus you can make...So if i have one rank in appraise, can i craft an item that gives me a "skill bonus" of +10 to the appriase skill?
Ahh, ok, I see what you are saying.
In that case, yes, you would need ranks in that skill you wish to craft into the item.
In your example of a +10, the creator would need +10 to Appraise.
Now, I am only going by examples of items that already give skill bonuses. Like with Boots of Striding and Springing one of the abilities is it gives a +5 bonus to Acrobatics when used for jumping. One of the prerequisites in making the boots is the creator needs 5 ranks in Acrobatics.
However, going by RAW and what I said earlier, you can technically take +5 to the DC to bypass that prerequsite. But this is another one that some are adamant on not bypassing, and why Sean is clarifying on what you can and can't take +5 on in the upcoming book.
Finally, an item that isn't in the book already (like your +10 to Appraise) would be considered a custom item. There are rules in the core rulebook on creating custom items, but usually you try to pick an item that is very similar in what it gives. And of course, creating a custom item is always DMs discretion.
situation: wizard and cleric working together
Actually the RAW (in that specific feat - I bolded specifically what I'm referring to) implies that if I wanted to make a scroll of cure light wounds both the wizard and the cleric would have to have scribe scroll.
Thus that portion of the wording contradicts both the CRB AND Sean's answer to my earlier post/questions.
JohnBear
That 'both must have the relevant Craft skill or item creation feat' is a prerequsite to gain the benefits of the Cooperative Crafting feat, the +2 circumstance bonus and doubling the gp value in what can be crafted each day.
It is 'not' a requirement if they want to craft together in general.
A thread on RPG.net about he lack of authenticity of most armors depicted in gaming is really suggesting that we ought to have a table stating that +1 armor must look, mostly, like basic armor and that +5 armor can be chain mail bikinis or other flights of fantasy.
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When using the table for "Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values:"
There's this reference as a footer note: "If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half."
If something doesn't fall into one of those specific durations, do we just ignore that reference altogether or find somewhere to fit it in?
Examples:
- mage armor is 1hr/level for duration.
- divine favor is 1 static minute
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I think this post I have found in another thread is a good addition to this one. it show the problem a GM can have with magic item crafting:
p549 of Core Rules has a section titled "Magic Item Gold Piece Values". There is a subsection "Other considerations" that seems to imply that a sly crafter of magic items could create items that are usable only by people of their own alignment (ie themselves and close, like-minded, associates) for a 30% discount. I have a player who thinks this means that he can make himself a +1 Scimitar that is "only usable" by people of his own alignment and he can make it at 70% cost. Is that what these rules are saying? This seems a little broken to me but there it is in the core rule-book no less. Am I just being a restrictive hard-ass or is this how these rules were intended to be used? If I'm wrong about this and a 30% discount is fair when making an item for yourself then does this "discount" stack? Meaning, if he makes the +1 Scimitar exclusively usable by Magus' with his alignment can he get a 60% discount? If he adds on a rider stating that any user of this magic sword also has to have ranks in Craft--Weapon, Intimidate, Knowledge--Planes & Swim, each providing a 10% "discount" for a total of 100% off, would that mean that magic items are free from now on so long as you make them yourself and you restrict them from being used by anyone who basically isn't you?
Am I off-base for thinking this is ridiculous? Also, if a +1 Neutral Evil, Magus with four skills restricted Scimitar for free is a viable concept, then in the hands of anyone else is it just a hunk of metal that refuses to cooperate with a melee attack or does it at least count as a masterwork scimitar?
Do the rules say how to combine multiple percentages (in general or in this specific case)?
Sean's already mentioned a few times that those really shouldn't be a discount for players, and that they'd be priced normally for them. It would be a great thing to add to this.
In an upcoming sourcebook, we're going to write additional material for the magic item crafting rules, further explaining and clarifying the nuances of how this works. I'm going to look over existing threads, FAQ entries, and FAQ-flagged threads, but I don't want anything to slip through the cracks, so I'm asking here: Is there anything else about the magic item crafting rules that could use more explanation or examples?
This has come up multiple times in our gameplay. What exactly do you need physically with you to craft magic items?
For example, if you have a masterwork ring or sword, do you still need a forge to make it magical? Or do you just need to meditate over it and cast spells into it?
We have had lively discussions whether you can craft in a wilderness or if you need a workstation. Some people argue that since you are not creating the item it seems to suggest you just cast spells into it or imbue it with power.
However, others suggest that since it costs a significant amount of gold, you must be buying supplies that takes significant resources (like forges, work benches, etc) to work into the item.
Thanks. What a wonderful idea for a thread.
I brought this up before, I would love to see guidelines on enchanting materials and gathering them. For example say you get a unicorn horn, this is obviously a powerfull item and it should reduce the cost in crafting certain types of items. What about red dragon blood? Shouldnt having that lower the cost somewhat on crafting a say flaming enchantment for a sword?
My suggestion would be to allow the crafter to "collect" materials from encounters (within reason) and be able to use them towards crafting items. Create guidelines to follow for the GM to look at, but most components should be attuneed to the type of effect. If you have splinters of a skeletal champion they should be used in crafting something with a necromantic effect for example. Ground up pixie wings could be used in helping craft say dust of illusion. Stuff like that. All the other craft types you can "harvest" materials for. Even poison making you can harvest the poison glands from certain animals to make the poison.