|
ok so im playing a 2 handed magus with a great sword. im going to eventually go barbarian and oricle later on but right now im a 1st level magus.
my gm this game had a disagreement with me on the action sequence with my character. what im going to do at second level is:
1 cast shocking grasp while holding (not wielding)a 2 handed weapon.
2 move and place my hand on the weapon (wielding it)
3 free action spellstrike while using the 2 handed weapon.
i was under the impression that this was legal, but they are convinced that it is against the rules. anyone know if this does work? also this is a PFS game so the rules may be different then normal.
Spellstrike does not mention any restriction as to what type of weapon it can be used with. But spell combat must be used while wielding a light or one handed melee weapon. Now to cast a spell AND make your attacks with your weapon means you are using spell combat. But, if you were only making the 1 "free attack" to deliver the spell you just cast, and don't make any other attacks on your turn, it is legal.
EDIT: TL;DR Yes it is legal, as long as you're only making the 1 attack to deliver your spell. But you would be giving up 1 or more attacks each round you do this.
its a movement based character, run slap for 6d6+10 then at 5th level going to grab a spell storing weapon for a strike of 16d6+15. its just a stupid fun character. i knew i was doing it right, but my gm thought it seemd fishy.
Maguses tend to be fishy, but I'd be skeptical about how you got 16d6+15 at level 5. I'd understand 5d6+Weapon+damage, but 16d6? Only way I can come up with that is using a great sword, and Enlarge person, and then critting for: 6d6 (Greatsword)+ 10d6 shocking grasp.
By the way, there is a FAQ specifically talking about what you mentioned. I'd recommend printing it out to bring to games, considering it is PFS.
its a movement based character, run slap for 6d6+10 then at 5th level going to grab a spell storing weapon for a strike of 16d6+15. its just a stupid fun character. i knew i was doing it right, but my gm thought it seemd fishy.
If your character will be so powerful, it may be a good idea to hold back at times. I know a guy who made a pfs magus that can one shot kill anything that is not immune to electricity, I haven't seen his character sheet so he may of even covered that. And I don't think any of the gms liked it when he played that character, since he was so overwhelmingly powerful and could trivialize just about any encounter.
|
|
its a movement based character, run slap for 6d6+10 then at 5th level going to grab a spell storing weapon for a strike of 16d6+15. its just a stupid fun character. i knew i was doing it right, but my gm thought it seemd fishy.Maguses tend to be fishy, but I'd be skeptical about how you got 16d6+15 at level 5. I'd understand 5d6+Weapon+damage, but 16d6? Only way I can come up with that is using a great sword, and Enlarge person, and then critting for: 6d6 (Greatsword)+ 10d6 shocking grasp.
By the way, there is a FAQ specifically talking about what you mentioned. I'd recommend printing it out to bring to games, considering it is PFS.
in the actual faq? or a thread. i would love to have that.
and random dood. i agree that restraint is a very important thing to have. i never try to invalidate encounters, because we're there to have fun and ruining everything isnt really fun.
|
There's nothing wrong with using the greatsword with spellstrike looking at RAW. Otherwise, wizards couldn't use staffs and cast.
However, I think RAI, they meant for it to be used with 1H weapons.
I'd let you do it, but I can see where your GM is upset. I think you're bending the spirit of the class to do something it was not intended for, but mechanically, you're good.
Spell Combat:
"To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. "
So this will not work with a 2H Weapon.
You can stil cast the spell normaly in round 1 move toward the enemy and then in round 2 strike with your 2H Weapon.
For the damage max TSK mentioned:
spell storing scimitar +1 - Dex-Bonus +4 - Dervish Dance
1d6+5 Melee Attack Base Damage
+5d6 (shocking grasp via spell strike)
+5d6 (shocking grasp via spell storing)
+1d6+5 Melee attack as "spell touch"
=> 14d6+10 - did I miss anything?
|
|
Spell Combat:
"To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. "So this will not work with a 2H Weapon.
You can stil cast the spell normaly in round 1 move toward the enemy and then in round 2 strike with your 2H Weapon.For the damage max TSK mentioned:
spell storing scimitar +1 - Dex-Bonus +4 - Dervish Dance1d6+5 Melee Attack Base Damage
+5d6 (shocking grasp via spell strike)
+5d6 (shocking grasp via spell storing)
+1d6+5 Melee attack as "spell touch"=> 14d6+10 - did I miss anything?
I meant spellstrike, not spell combat, I fixed it in the post.
|
|
ok so im playing a 2 handed magus with a great sword. im going to eventually go barbarian and oricle later on but right now im a 1st level magus.
my gm this game had a disagreement with me on the action sequence with my character. what im going to do at second level is:
1 cast shocking grasp while holding (not wielding)a 2 handed weapon.
2 move and place my hand on the weapon (wielding it)
3 free action spellstrike while using the 2 handed weapon.i was under the impression that this was legal, but they are convinced that it is against the rules. anyone know if this does work? also this is a PFS game so the rules may be different then normal.
The only real question I can see here, is if you can draw your weapon or "change the grip" between casting and the free attack.
I know, that you can make a 5 ft. step between casting a touch spell and the free attack to deliver it.
A character with a BAB of +1 or better can draw his weapon when he takes a "move" action. Since you have the weapon already in your hand, I see not reason to limit you. (I would however let you switch grip of your weapon only once each turn - otherwise EVERY Magus would wield his weapon in two hands, when it's not their turn.)
This tactic isn't even all that broken since you can't use spell combat.
|
One of the problems is how does the Magus DO all of that in 1 melee round?
1: Strike with a weapon
2: Cast a Spell
3: pull out a spell from spell storing
4: Do a "touch attack - modified" with the spell strike, stored spell and weapon
5: Any feats like "Spring attack"
Is it just me or is that just too many things in 1 round?
|
|
The problem is that many people do not understand the normal rules for delivering touch spells.
It is perfectly legal for a PC to do the following in the same round:
1. Cast a touch spell (standard action).
2. Move forward (move action).
3. Deliver that touch spell (free action).Now for a magus the spellstrike ability allows them to make a free normal melee attack instead of the free melee touch attack to deliver the spell (on the round that it is cast).
Thus it is perfectly legal for a magus to do the following in the same round:
1. Cast a touch spell (standard action).
2. Wield a weapon (move action).
3. Take a 5' step (non-action).
4. Make a melee attack with that weapon to deliver the touch spell (free action).When these advanced options are about the first goal should be in understanding the basic rules. From there the advanced rules are not as hard to understand, but from scratch they can be daunting.
-James
I see it a little differently:
1. Cast a touch spell (standard action).
2. Wield a weapon (move action).
3. Take a 5' step (non-action).
4. Make a melee attack with that weapon to deliver the touch spell (finish the spell activation "touch attack").
But essentially the same
The question is where would the "active magic weapon" to give the extra 5d6 damage to stack with the spell strike?
Isn't activating and using a magic device a "Move Action"?
|
|
The magus was not ment or designed to be used with two-handers.
In order for you to cast a spell using spell combate you can not even be holding a two handed weapon even one handed.
If by some means you cheese it up to be able to cast a shocking grasp and then hold a two handed weapon in the same round you could yes use spell strike to deliver the spell threw the two hander RAW.
The only ways to do this are:
1. cast shocking grasp (out of threat) as a standard action and then draw your weapon as part of your move action and then hit your target.
2. get those nifty little gloves of storing and use your cheese events from your first post.I my self as a gm and a player that uses a magus would not allow you to.
Here is why. My PFS magus has one level in sorcerer that is duel blooded and has the dragonic (brozen) and Primal (air) blood lines giving him a +2 to every electric spell die, he has gifted adept as one of his traits giving him a +1 caster level for shocking grasp and has spell specialization giving him a +2 caster level for shocking grasp.
(+2 per dice and +3 caster level)
That magus has a +1 rapier of spell storing.
He casts intisified shocking grasps and had the once a day empowered spell arcana.
He can cast several 10d6+20 intisified shocking grasps a day and one 15d6+30 shocking grasp a day and sometimes keeps a intisified shocking grasp in his sword. and Gives his weapon an additionla +1 and Keen (most of the time).
He can hit for 40d6+80 once a day if he crits on his empowered use.
(He did this the other day) for a min of 120 damage he did well 200 that hit (just for fun). HE WAS LEVEL 7 for crying out loud.
As james jacobs said "leave the two handers to the warriors and barbarians".
Playing a Magus myself, yeah you are pretty much a one trick pony. I had the wonderfull pleasure to run into a shadow demon at level 5... is wasn't pretty, him being immune to electricity and all.
Of course having a +3 weapon (+2 black blade improved to +3 keen) allowed me to ignore his DR.And you might have some of your numbers wrong, at level 7 (Sorcerer 1/Magus 6 ) can't deal 10d6 shocking grasps you are missing a CL.
And could you showcase you calculation how you managed 40d6 in one round?
|
|
my gm this game had a disagreement with me on the action sequence with my character. what im going to do at second level is:1 cast shocking grasp while holding (not wielding)a 2 handed weapon.
2 move and place my hand on the weapon (wielding it)
3 free action spellstrike while using the 2 handed weapon.i was under the impression that this was legal, but they are convinced that it is against the rules. anyone know if this does work? also this is a PFS game so the rules may be different then normal.
The problem is that many people do not understand the normal rules for delivering touch spells.
It is perfectly legal for a PC to do the following in the same round:
1. Cast a touch spell (standard action).
2. Move forward (move action).
3. Deliver that touch spell (free action).Now for a magus the spellstrike ability allows them to make a free normal melee attack instead of the free melee touch attack to deliver the spell (on the round that it is cast).
Thus it is perfectly legal for a magus to do the following in the same round:
1. Cast a touch spell (standard action).
2. Wield a weapon (move action).
3. Take a 5' step (non-action).
4. Make a melee attack with that weapon to deliver the touch spell (free action).When these advanced options are about the first goal should be in understanding the basic rules. From there the advanced rules are not as hard to understand, but from scratch they can be daunting.
-James
Forgot the moving thing.
|
|
The problem is that many people do not understand the normal rules for delivering touch spells.
It is perfectly legal for a PC to do the following in the same round:
1. Cast a touch spell (standard action).
2. Move forward (move action).
3. Deliver that touch spell (free action).Now for a magus the spellstrike ability allows them to make a free normal melee attack instead of the free melee touch attack to deliver the spell (on the round that it is cast).
Thus it is perfectly legal for a magus to do the following in the same round:
1. Cast a touch spell (standard action).
2. Wield a weapon (move action).
3. Take a 5' step (non-action).
4. Make a melee attack with that weapon to deliver the touch spell (free action).When these advanced options are about the first goal should be in understanding the basic rules. From there the advanced rules are not as hard to understand, but from scratch they can be daunting.
-James
I see it a little differently:
1. Cast a touch spell (standard action).
2. Wield a weapon (move action).
3. Take a 5' step (non-action).
4. Make a melee attack with that weapon to deliver the touch spell (finish the spell activation "touch attack").But essentially the same
The question is where would the "active magic weapon" to give the extra 5d6 damage to stack with the spell strike?
Isn't activating and using a magic device a "Move Action"?
Casting a spell from a spell storing weapon is a free action if you hit - that's what mean right?
|
|
Casting a spell from a spell storing weapon is a free action if you hit - that's what mean right?
I don't know as I don't remember what casting a stored spell is from a magic device, even a weapon that stores spells
If it's a free action, that makes a Magus with a spell storing blade is devastating at 5th level
Spell strike lets you cast and strike with a one handed weapon, and two use a two hander with spell strike, you have three options.
Net adept to use a net one handed.
Titan Mauler lvl 2 to use two handers 1 handed, with -2.
Or Thunder and fang, lets you use a Earth breaker (2d6) 1 handed.
Other wise, you cast the spell, and when you put your hand on your sword, your spell discharges... but someone told me that your own spells can't hurt you, but I'm not so sure about that.
|
|
Second, upon a hit with a spell storing weapon the stored spell can go off to hit the target (no extra attack roll required, but does not crit even if the attack did). This is another free action (spelled out in the weapon enchantment description).
-James
Note to self: No Weapons of Spell Storing in my campaign as random treasure or NPCs using, ever
And could you showcase you calculation how you managed 40d6 in one round?
I my self as a gm and a player that uses a magus would not allow you to.
Here is why. My PFS magus has one level in sorcerer that is duel blooded and has the dragonic (brozen) and Primal (air) blood lines giving him a +2 to every electric spell die, he has gifted adept as one of his traits giving him a +1 caster level for shocking grasp and has spell specialization giving him a +2 caster level for shocking grasp.
(+2 per dice and +3 caster level)
That magus has a +1 rapier of spell storing.
He casts intisified shocking grasps and had the once a day empowered spell arcana.
He can cast several 10d6+20 intisified shocking grasps a day and one 15d6+30 shocking grasp a day and sometimes keeps a intisified shocking grasp in his sword. and Gives his weapon an additionla +1 and Keen (most of the time).
He can hit for 40d6+80 once a day if he crits on his empowered use.
(He did this the other day) for a min of 120 damage he did well 200 that hit (just for fun). HE WAS LEVEL 7 for crying out loud.
As james jacobs said "leave the two handers to the warriors and barbarians".
Well assuming he gets 10d6+20 at level 7 when he empowers it jumps to 15d6+30. On a crit that would be 30d6+60, then he adds the spell stored Shocking grasp in on the crit bumping it to 40d6+80. If he is short a CL then its still respectable 35d6+70 I think...math could be off.
I really do wish more people would show their math step by step. Some of us want to know how to do these things.
|
|
Casting a spell from a spell storing weapon is a free action if you hit - that's what mean right?I don't know as I don't remember what casting a stored spell is from a magic device, even a weapon that stores spells
If it's a free action, that makes a Magus with a spell storing blade is devastating at 5th level
Actually not that much more devastation than a Barbarian with a spell storing greatsword and power attack, or a Ranger with a lead blades spell on his spell storing weapon.
It's a grat bursty effect, but there are ways for the GM to counter or cancel them, and of course your enemies can use them too.
And of course http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/globe-of-invulnerability saves you completely.
|
|
And could you showcase you calculation how you managed 40d6 in one round?
I my self as a gm and a player that uses a magus would not allow you to.
Here is why. My PFS magus has one level in sorcerer that is duel blooded and has the dragonic (brozen) and Primal (air) blood lines giving him a +2 to every electric spell die, he has gifted adept as one of his traits giving him a +1 caster level for shocking grasp and has spell specialization giving him a +2 caster level for shocking grasp.
(+2 per dice and +3 caster level)
That magus has a +1 rapier of spell storing.
He casts intisified shocking grasps and had the once a day empowered spell arcana.
He can cast several 10d6+20 intisified shocking grasps a day and one 15d6+30 shocking grasp a day and sometimes keeps a intisified shocking grasp in his sword. and Gives his weapon an additionla +1 and Keen (most of the time).
He can hit for 40d6+80 once a day if he crits on his empowered use.
(He did this the other day) for a min of 120 damage he did well 200 that hit (just for fun). HE WAS LEVEL 7 for crying out loud.
As james jacobs said "leave the two handers to the warriors and barbarians".Well assuming he gets 10d6+20 at level 7 when he empowers it jumps to 15d6+30. On a crit that would be 30d6+60, then he adds the spell stored Shocking grasp in on the crit bumping it to 40d6+80. If he is short a CL then its still respectable 35d6+70 I think...math could be off.
I really do wish more people would show their math step by step. Some of us want to know how to do these things.
Oh I missed empowered use. Still I don't thing magi are that overpowered considering that a sorcerer with gifted adept and wayang spellhunter (fireball), spell focus evocation and spell perfection could very well do quite respeciable damage with a lesser metamagic rod of empower.
I should look up the interaction of metamagic spells, IRRC correctly from .. an old issue of Dragon.. that a maximized empowered fireball at CL 10 deals 60 (maximized base spell damage) + 5d6 fire damage.
I am not quite sure if an empowered intensified shocking grasp would only 12-13d6 of damage.
|
|
Your right on the math Hirsch I was doing 9d6 that night I'm doing 10d6 now but I am also not storing shocking grasp either I'm storing vampiric touch for a few hit points and the fact its defensive casting I need a 10 for vt and a 5 for shocking grasp(makes since). Any yes elec creates have come up, at witch point I switch to tank mod and let my party kill them while I hold them in place. Shield and mirrior image are awesome for that. Both roles for witch I have limited time but hey who said I had to kill everything in one hit. I do tend to save my burst damage for bigger baddies tho.
As far as wanting a two hander ..... i think it is pointless to add such little damage via a weapon, when with meta magics (elemental spell) you can basically fit your spells to the precived encounter with mimimal difficulty. Yes a few 3k Lesser Rods of Meta magic elemental spell are a very wise investment (even tho to use them you have to drop your weapon corded rapier and use them as touch attacks with little chance to crit) Standard spell damage is way better thank no damage or worse boosting the construct or shambling horrer because you failed to add some skills to knowledges and failed to make knowledge roles before you cast a spell
.
Somet tricks I learned from level 1to5 in a party with lackluster healing:
Shield is your friend, Mirror Image is awesome but the immages tend to go very quick against a lot of enemies. Ablative Barrier is awesome never leave house without it http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/ablative-barrier .
Casting defensively is ... tricky your are most likely not quite as intelligent as a wizard, and combat casting .. well you only have so many feats.
Enlarge Person wil not only increase your weapon damage (and lower your AC) but gives reach, so you can cast without having to worry about attacks or readied actions.
The feat Lunge is pretty sweet to.
Regarding magic items, pearls of power .... lots of them but I guess you already know that.
|
|
I'd let you do it, but I can see where your GM is upset. I think you're bending the spirit of the class to do something it was not intended for, but mechanically, you're good.
what? how does one bend the spirit of the class...
if they didnt want people using 2 handed weapons they wouldnt have given them profeciency with all martial weapons. further mor they would have put the stipulation that you need a 1handed weapon for it to work.
my character does less damage then a dex based dervish magus by farrr
|
|
O now your upset. Remember it is all up to your gm what you can and can't do. Even so even james jacobs said it is not the magus flavor.
1 no im not upset, just wondering how someone defines "the spirit of the class"
and
2 that post was in refrence to "the blade bound magus" and its limitations, not the magus in gerenral. if jason felt that all magus should be TWFing spells and one handed swords, then that limitation should be inheriant in ALL class features. not to mention that fact that he even stated that the post was an opinion and that its a better question left to Jason... man i forgot his name, bulman i think.
*i mean if the idea of using a great sword is so bad, then ill just grab a katana and make "stuff" really broken lol*
A couple of things to re iterate since it comes up so much. The one handed weapon stipulation has nothing what so ever to do with spell strike. It is a rule for spell combat.
A Magus with a held spell can drop it and pick it up again without dis charging. Nothing in the rules stops them from using it.
Think about it, the Magus is deciding not to use main Magus ability by using a great sword. Any small benefit to damage by the great sword is lost by the loss of using spell combat.
Because spell combat + spell strike is far stronger than a 2handed weapon with spell strike.
A magus using a two-handed weapon loses spell combat but nothing else. It is a free action to remove a hand from a weapon or put it back on the weapon. You can hold a two-handed weapon in one hand, but you can't attack that way (unless you have a special ability for that purpose). The only advantage that I could see about using a two-handed weapon is that you could use a bardiche and gain the benefits of brace and reach, while still having a reasonable critical range. Greatsword, elven curved blade, or any other non-reach weapon would result in less damage on average than a scimitar, katana, or similar one-handed weapon.
You can do all of that if you are using a one-handed weapon, though. You can even cast a spell and put your hand on the weapon to attack if you're not using spell combat.