Stat 20 + 6 (enhancement) + 5 (Insight) + 5 (level bonus) is only 36 for the best stat you can start with. I'm assuming that the character rolled an 18 and placed every level bonus into the stat. That still leaves a few stats 5 to 9 points lower (depending on race).
I have a feeling that you missed something. It was probably unintentional. I don't like to assume someone is cheating right off the bat. Most of the time it's an error in understanding the rules.
I recommend the next campaign sticks as closely to the rules as possible. Make sure that you and your players fully understand how every rule works before making any changes. For example the game is predicated on a 15 to 20 point buy. If you allow 25 point buy (or higher or rolling etc), then you are essentially giving the players a bonus to their abilities that will tilt the game more in their favor. There is nothing wrong with that but you have to know how it will impact your games.
Make sure that you enforce the rules in the magic section of the CRB. I also wouldn't allow spells to do any more than what they say they do.
. because I REALLY want to see that character sheet...
I must again suggest you restart the campaign at level 1 and level up organically. That way, you can all learn the rules too - it seems that there are either a few HUGE house rules in place, or there is some lack of rules understanding. That's okay, no-one starts playing knowing everything, but until you know how a car works it's best to stay away from the x-wing.
I have to agree with this approach. 40 stats isn't possible for one stat, let alone all of them.
20 is as high as you can start.
+5 you can get from your normal increase every four levels by level 20.
+6 is the maximum enhancement bonus, this does not stack with any other enhancement bonus such as buffing spells, additional items, etc.
+5 inherent bonus is the highest you can get, Wishes, manuals, tomes all provide inherent bonuses. Again, these do not stack with one another. If you have a +4 bonus and then gain a +5 bonus, the +5 bonus is all you get (+1 on what you had prior to any inherent bonuses) rather than +9 in total.
I think at this point we're all just waiting for Faylon to post the builds here.
I'd also like to see the character sheet for this one....Me too.
Three
He mentioned that he only has a couple years experience playing/GMing, and the other players have played RP games for longer than he has been alive...
... so methinks some older and (likely) mean-spirited geeks are trolling the eager kid who wanted to run a game.
Sorry to hear about this. Tell those smelly old @#$^*@ to screw off and start a new game with some fellow gamers your own age. Also, take the time to learn the game on your own instead of just swallowing whatever these ^$%@& are telling you is true.
I've seen this attitude too often from "oldschool" gamers, and it enrages me to no end.
He mentioned that he only has a couple years experience playing/GMing, and the other players have played RP games for longer than he has been alive...
... so methinks some older and (likely) mean-spirited geeks are trolling the eager kid who wanted to run a game.
Sorry to hear about this. Tell those smelly old @#$^*@ to screw off and start a new game with some fellow gamers your own age. Also, take the time to learn the game on your own instead of just swallowing whatever these ^$%@& are telling you is true.
I've seen this attitude too often from "oldschool" gamers, and it enrages me to no end.
This is why I devoured 3.5 and Pathfinder when they came out. Out of the 8 people I play with on a regular basis, 3 of them have been playing for 30 years (I'm 23), and 1 has been playing for 24 years. They have a lot of experience in playing games, but despite that, I know the rules better than all 8 of the people I play with.
Even after 10 or so years in 3.5/Pathfinder, the people I play with still mix up Haster as granting extra actions. So just because someone has a lot of experience, doesn't mean they're an expert. To me, it just means they know a lot, and are able to confuse the rules from the various editions.
Learn the rules as well as you can, if you have questions, don't be afraid to ask them, especially here on the Forums. The forums are a resource you shouldn't ignore.
This is why I devoured 3.5 and Pathfinder when they came out. Out of the 8 people I play with on a regular basis, 3 of them have been playing for 30 years (I'm 23), and 1 has been playing for 24 years. They have a lot of experience in playing games, but despite that, I know the rules better than all 8 of the people I play with.
Even after 10 or so years in 3.5/Pathfinder, the people I play with still mix up Haster as granting extra actions. So just because someone has a lot of experience, doesn't mean they're an expert. To me, it just means they know a lot, and are able to confuse the rules from the various editions.
Learn the rules as well as you can, if you have questions, don't be afraid to ask them, especially here on the Forums. The forums are a resource you shouldn't ignore.
That's great, and how it should be. Nothing wrong with older gamers playing with younger ones, and at 31 I've been responsible for getting a few teenagers into the hobby and a couple of them know the rules for certain systems better than I do now!
But that just doesn't seem to be the case with the OP, hence why I have a feeling we are dealing with a very different type of "mature" gamer.
I might also suggest a custom rule I use. All magic items are created by a formula. In my games to craft a magic item in addition to the book requirements a character must either obtain or research a formula at additional expense and time. Occasionally I add such formulae as part of treasure.
This is an excellent rule. I'm going to add it to my own game.
I might also suggest a custom rule I use. All magic items are created by a formula. In my games to craft a magic item in addition to the book requirements a character must either obtain or research a formula at additional expense and time. Occasionally I add such formulae as part of treasure.This is an excellent rule. I'm going to add it to my own game.
It's actually "old school" but was (a bit) "abstracted out" in more recent editions (it's where the base crafting cost comes from, though; "paying" for these rare things), however I'm also pretty sure it remains "current" in all DMGs that the game master can specify formulae, steps, rare ingredients, and the like if they wish. I'm not familiar enough with the PF Game Mastery books to cite the reference in there, but my guess is - I'm almost positive this remains mentioned somewhere in the DM section of the crafting rules. If those "crafting base cost" items (the things that makes the whatsit cost 50% when crafting instead of full price when bought on the open market) aren't available in every city, but are rare and have to be tracked down, it curbs things.
So it's not really a "house rule" - the only thing custom will be the specific formula in a given campaign/circumstance. Perfectly RAW otherwise.
I might also suggest a custom rule I use. All magic items are created by a formula. In my games to craft a magic item in addition to the book requirements a character must either obtain or research a formula at additional expense and time. Occasionally I add such formulae as part of treasure.This is an excellent rule. I'm going to add it to my own game.
Does that mean once you know the formula, you don't need to do the additional research a second time?
Honestly, the best way to regulate Magic Item Rules, is to know the rules yourself. Have every person who wants a custom item, give a step by step walk through of the creation process via the rules. If the rules check out, and if you feel the item isn't too broken or powerful, then I'd allow the item.
Most people simply don't know the rules very well, and skip over modifiers, additional costs, etc, or the ones that do know the rules, intentionally avoid certain things to pull a hood over a GM's eyes that doesn't know the rules.
Never thought I would see the day when a DM says he is TOO NERFed for his campaign. Kudos to the DM for even bringing this rather embarrassing situation to the Forums.
40 in all Stats and an AC of 50? For shame on the player that did that. Honestly that would take away all the fun from the game as a player if my character had better stats than Forgotten Realm Avatars.. who are already powergamed. And to Dip in Monk just for the extra +15 to AC is beyond Cheese.
Basically the player cheated, and while as a DM it is your responsibility to try to maintain game balance, the fact remains that a player cheated and cheesed his way through the game.
This is no different that an aimbot on Call of Duty or using performance enhancing drugs in sports... I'm curious.. is this player still your friend or has he apologized yet? Thanks again for posting. Very Brave
40 in Strength and Constitution can indeed be achieved with size bonus through PAO and all the stuff you already mentionned.
Have them run into a wizard with a greater metamagic rod of persist spell. Then have that same wizard cast Mage's Disjunction. It destroys all his buff spells (Including permanent ones) and they have to roll a will save for each magic item twice, taking the lower of the two. Have the wizard pal around with a Half-Dragon Monk with ranks in UMD. That monk, after the wizard casts the Disjunction, from a scroll casts a Widened Anti-Magic Field. The Monk then flies over to the wizard, following the wizard to the ground. The Wizard tries to run away, but can't get out of the Anti-Magic field unless he casts a quickened Teleport. All you need is a spell that delays teleports, and you can capture the rest of the Party while the offending Wizard is stuck and unable to perform any actions.
The goal is to capture the PCs, and then drain them of there inherent magic (IE, bring them inline with the PF rules).
It could even be an arc where the wizard and the monk are trying to grant a lich diety status, and the PCs are a potential power source.
[Edit] The really nice thing is that Disjunction doesn't destroy magic items, just suppresses them. I am totally going to use that as an offensive spell more often now.
You want to screw them up a bit?
Have a master thief get wind of how awesome the group is and rob them blind.
Then have the thief (or thieves) become their new villains and use all those great items.
Lets see how they like dealing with an Arcane Trickster or Ninja with a 50 AC and all stats at 40.
there is nothing like an unbeatable character, everything has weaknesses, reading through this thread I have to say I believe the GM mishandled the situation, and also gave out some ...interesting items (if every other player was also able to get similar things, then it is by no way the fault of the wizard's player)
The character is a wizard, there are spells that mute, deafen, hold characters to stop them from casting well, there is also the obvious antimagic field and similar powers, psionic powers usually ignore spell defenses, poison and many abilities can lower Constitution and other attributes which result in death (or almost ensured death), traps can also kill wizards easily, just as a single well trained assassin, or a group of them. There are area-effect spells, sure-to-hit spells like magic missiles, enemies could just rush it and try to grapple/constrict it.
Anyway, I could go on there are multitudes to take someone down, not just a wizard, a single character can only do as much in one turn too, in my opinion you don't have to nerf the character if it was made according to your/core rules, instead you have to work on being able to handle and build encounters so that all players in the group feel appreciated, because what may be bad for a rogue to handle may be ideal for a mage, where a mage needs backup a cleric or fighter would be just fine
I myself always have to cringe when the ides of robbing the players blind or throwing them naked into a prison comes up, it is unfair to the players, especially in longer campaigns where they took time to get enough income to make the items. It is just a method of GM-s who ignore their own faults and let the players suffer on their whim to quickly hide their mess under a rug. Because no matter how you look at it, if the GM allowed them to be like they are, it is not their fault.
On the other hand, what PC-s can do can NPC-s do as well.
Hopefully we'll get to know HOW ON EARTH they got stats of 40!?
The AC seems to simply come from there: 10 + DEX (+15) + WIS (+15) (Monk-dip) = 40, add some spells/specials and 50 is not that far.
40 in Strength and Constitution can indeed be achieved with size bonus through PAO and all the stuff you already mentionned.
This doesn't explain the 40 Dex, the 40 Wisdom, the 40 Intelligence, or the 40 Charisma. Also, while 40 is possible in one of the stats, it's unlikely to get two of the stats to 40.
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40 in Strength and Constitution can indeed be achieved with size bonus through PAO and all the stuff you already mentionned.This doesn't explain the 40 Dex, the 40 Wisdom, the 40 Intelligence, or the 40 Charisma. Also, while 40 is possible in one of the stats, it's unlikely to get two of the stats to 40.
It's simple: just write a 40 straight down the column and then pretend that you can justify it when the DM gets confused.
I have to agree with the others. 40s in all stats sounds impossible short of using Psionics or Epic Spell rules both of which are not Pathfinder approved.
I have the feeling as soon as this sheet gets posted you will have a chorus of voices telling you how they broke the rules.
How exactly would you use Psionics to get 40s in every stat, and using what source out of curiosity?
Psionics had open ended stat boosts. So with a high enough level and plenty of Psi Points you could get your stats up to whatever you desired. I think it is the 3.5 Psionics I am referring to, but I never bought the rules I just played under them.
I'm curious because I've been looking into Psionics rules lately (from Psionics Unleashed). One of the misconceptions about it (and 3.5 psionics I heard) was that people would ignore it had a cap on how many points you could use for a manifestation, ie you can only use a number of points up to your level, and each higher tier power costs more points base and some cost a few points for each augmentation you threw on them, so it never really got ridiculous (from a theorycraft perspective).
Yeah as I recall the cost to pump the power didn't increase it was a flat X extra points for Y extra effect. But There was a level cap, which is why I mentioned level as a requirement. I couldn't begin to tell you how many points it would take to boost a stat to 40 only that it could be done.
Looking up some powers (because I'm bored), the closest thing that seems to pop out is one called Animal Affinity. It's a second level power (so it costs 3 base) and it adds +4 to one of your stats for 1min/lvl, and you can augment it for 5 points to add an additional +4, so it'd cap at 18th for +16 to a stat for minutes per level... still pretty nice though :P
I am also waiting for the character sheet.
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I'm gonna bet on 5 templates and obscure 3.5 material :O
AND MY AXE!ThreeI'd also like to see the character sheet for this one....Me too.
Indeed. This should be an interesting character sheet to look at.
Indeed. This should be an interesting character sheet to look at.AND MY AXE!ThreeI'd also like to see the character sheet for this one....Me too.
GIVE US THE SHEET ALREADY! *Rage*
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He won't. It's likely what I suspected... he was a newer player who was duped by some older players who should damn well know better.
He'll never get them to give up their character sheets, and will likely be mocked for the effort.
OP; if you ever come back here and read this... leave those idiots as soon as possible and find a group that is actually interested in learning and playing the game for real (and that respect you as a person and DM/player).
I don't think the old character sheet matters much at this point anyway. Regardless of how the character got broken, the initial question of how to resolve it has been dealt with. How it got broken in the first place is something that only that group needs to know and discuss, and hopefully they can avoid such things again in the future.
I don't think the old character sheet matters much at this point anyway. Regardless of how the character got broken, the initial question of how to resolve it has been dealt with. How it got broken in the first place is something that only that group needs to know and discuss, and hopefully they can avoid such things again in the future.
That's the thing though: the OP expressed the fact that group doesn't know how the character got broken. The OP stated that the character was legit. Without knowing how this occurred, they cannot take steps to avoid it in the future.
That's why we need to see the sheet: To point out how the character was broken so the group can move forward.
I don't think the old character sheet matters much at this point anyway. Regardless of how the character got broken, the initial question of how to resolve it has been dealt with. How it got broken in the first place is something that only that group needs to know and discuss, and hopefully they can avoid such things again in the future.That's the thing though: the OP expressed the fact that group doesn't know how the character got broken. The OP stated that the character was legit. Without knowing how this occurred, they cannot take steps to avoid it in the future.
That's why we need to see the sheet: To point out how the character was broken so the group can move forward.
Yea, I am just curious.. lol
He said the caster has item creation feats.
They use profession to gain wealth.
I bet the problem is with misinterpreting the item creation rules and the bonus stacking rules.
I can see this wizard with ioun stones, +6 stat items, and casting owl's wisdom and the like.
With profession and requesting a lot if down time this can get out of control. Especially with Houserules.
Is this a: "The player hosting the game give me trouble" thread? if so, we can't really help you.
I don't think the old character sheet matters much at this point anyway. Regardless of how the character got broken, the initial question of how to resolve it has been dealt with. How it got broken in the first place is something that only that group needs to know and discuss, and hopefully they can avoid such things again in the future.That's the thing though: the OP expressed the fact that group doesn't know how the character got broken. The OP stated that the character was legit. Without knowing how this occurred, they cannot take steps to avoid it in the future.
That's why we need to see the sheet: To point out how the character was broken so the group can move forward.
The impression I got was that he had at least a vague idea of how it had gotten to the breaking point and was simply not sure how to proceed.
He said the caster has item creation feats.
They use profession to gain wealth.I bet the problem is with misinterpreting the item creation rules and the bonus stacking rules.
I can see this wizard with ioun stones, +6 stat items, and casting owl's wisdom and the like.
With profession and requesting a lot if down time this can get out of control. Especially with Houserules.
Seriously how much gold can you gain by the proffesion skill? Even if talking decades downtime, i don't think that it can be more than a few thousands gp. The same goes for crafted magic items you can't make gp with them, but you can double your WBL if you craft everything you own, still even with double WBL i don't think that this thing can be done.
The misinterpretation of the stacking rules and the creation of ill-priced custom magic items might lead to such a result but still it seems a bit of a stretch to me.
Oh I think I've got an idea, stacking permanency spells ;)
but we need the sheet ;)
WE WANT THE SHEET
WE WANT THE SHEET
WE WANT THE SHEET
WE WANT THE SHEET
WE WANT THE SHEET
please :)
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You can more than double WBL through Item Creation Feats if there is downtime and the Wizard plays Merchant, he could craft a Wand for say... 8,000, sell it for 16,000, then craft two of the same wands, for 16,000 then sell those for 32,000, then make 4 wands....
As long as they change the type of wands periodically, to avoid flooding the market, it's easy to abuse the hell out of Item Creation.
You can more than double WBL through Item Creation Feats if there is downtime and the Wizard plays Merchant, he could craft a Wand for say... 8,000, sell it for 16,000, then craft two of the same wands, for 16,000 then sell those for 32,000, then make 4 wands....
As long as they change the type of wands periodically, to avoid flooding the market, it's easy to abuse the hell out of Item Creation.
Yes and No, settlements have (or at least are supposed to have) a limit on how much GP/money they possess/can use.
by "market" I assumed he meant a region, not a single settlement
And even then there might be a limit.
well, there is a reason why lots of wizards are rich or get invited to noble courts
In fictions, these tend to be rather old.
I don't think the old character sheet matters much at this point anyway. Regardless of how the character got broken, the initial question of how to resolve it has been dealt with. How it got broken in the first place is something that only that group needs to know and discuss, and hopefully they can avoid such things again in the future.That's the thing though: the OP expressed the fact that group doesn't know how the character got broken. The OP stated that the character was legit. Without knowing how this occurred, they cannot take steps to avoid it in the future.
That's why we need to see the sheet: To point out how the character was broken so the group can move forward.
I totally disagree... the character sheet should be examined not only to educate others but to prevent this sort of crap from ever happening again. I also believe that the "cheating" player knew he was abusing the DM and owes him and the rest of the group an apology.
He won't. It's likely what I suspected... he was a newer player who was duped by some older players who should damn well know better.
He'll never get them to give up their character sheets, and will likely be mocked for the effort.
OP; if you ever come back here and read this... leave those idiots as soon as possible and find a group that is actually interested in learning and playing the game for real (and that respect you as a person and DM/player).
I agree...Very Disrepectful behavior... and I also believe that the group is probably broken by now (to some degree)
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You can more than double WBL through Item Creation Feats if there is downtime and the Wizard plays Merchant, he could craft a Wand for say... 8,000, sell it for 16,000, then craft two of the same wands, for 16,000 then sell those for 32,000, then make 4 wands....
As long as they change the type of wands periodically, to avoid flooding the market, it's easy to abuse the hell out of Item Creation.
He wouldn't make money that way, because you always sell items at half price. That rule is in place for a reason.