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looking over dolphins, it irritates me that they are left with the same int level of a common animal when research shows that dolphins may be as smart as you or I. Do you think it would be a good idea to change the int level of dolphins in game? I mean give then a 4 or 6 at the very least, if not higher.
looking over dolphins, it irritates me that they are left with the same int level of a common animal when research shows that dolphins may be as smart as you or I. Do you think it would be a good idea to change the int level of dolphins in game? I mean give then a 4 or 6 at the very least, if not higher.
With all the things that pathfinder covers and the Int rating of a Dolphin is your big problem?
Dude just home rule it if it is that critical. While dolphins are pretty smart, probably on the leading edge of the animal kingdoms IQ scale, they are still ANIMAL intelligence.
I think maybe your watching too much Johnny Mnemonic. ;-)
looking over dolphins, it irritates me that they are left with the same int level of a common animal when research shows that dolphins may be as smart as you or I. Do you think it would be a good idea to change the int level of dolphins in game? I mean give then a 4 or 6 at the very least, if not higher.
There is no credible research that dolphins are as smart as humans, or even chimpanzees. Some studies put their intelligence at about the level of dogs.
Actually, they're NOT animal level. They in all ways compete with us.
I see no problem if you houserule giving them a higher Int. You will, of course, have to ignore a couple rules like 'anything above Int 2 cannot be an animal', but the overall impact on the game is not going to be exactly earth shattering.
(Of course, this would lead to the effect that a theoretical Dolphin Animal Companion is entitled to a metric crapton of tricks...oh well. Ain't exactly broken.)
if you disregard that 3int can't be an animal, what change would it make if you give dolphns an int of 4? Except perhaps if you've got the int-damaging undead squid in a waterworld campaign.
What is "smart?" Cite the particular scientific journals for evidence, please. I have no problem with the idea that other sentient creatires exist, but by my definition, they would have to be competition. Dolphins hardly fit that criteria. Ymmv
What do they need the INT for? Are they making knowledge checks? Spellcraft? Learning spells?
What difference is a 2 or a 3 or even a 6 matter in the game when 'dolphin' related?
Speak with Animals will still let you communicate.... but I don't see a dolphin doing much to help you in spell research.
I'm not sure their wisdom in game... but THAT may be argued it should be higher... recognizing danger, identifying people... tracking... stuff like that.
But for the group lump of skills that are 'Int' based... I think a dolphin would suck as much at those as a dog would.
Actually, they're NOT animal level. They in all ways compete with us.
That's a very common myth.
In fact, the same stories used to "confirm" dolphin intelligence can just as easily be applied to horses, elephants, chimpanzees, and dogs. Dolphins are good at relating to us and doing what we want because they're social and have very good spatial awareness. But, in reality, an Int of 2 matches them as well as it does a chimp or a gorilla.
Sigh... let's make a list of animals who have displayed amazing intelligence to "researchers."
Dolphins
Orcas
Sperm whales
Humpback whales
Gorillas
Chimpanzees
Cockatoos
Parrots
Crows
Ravens
Dogs
Cats
Horses
....
etc. etc. etc...
So, let's just change them all OK?
Or, how about we treat the fantasy world as a fantasy world and stop trying to make it fit our own beliefs about the REAL world?
Higher intellect will give the creature additional skills, and has narrative/characterization benefits as well.
Actually, the current rules will require the animal in question to rise to a two-digit Int score before getting more than that one skill point per HD.
Sigh... let's make a list of animals who have displayed amazing intelligence to "researchers."
Dolphins
Orcas
Sperm whales
Humpback whales
Gorillas
Chimpanzees
Cockatoos
Parrots
Crows
Ravens
Dogs
Cats
Horses
....etc. etc. etc...
So, let's just change them all OK?
Or, how about we treat the fantasy world as a fantasy world and stop trying to make it fit our own beliefs about the REAL world?
I think all the animals you've cited actually display a high real-world Wisdom score; Your Interpretation May Vary.
I think all the animals you've cited actually display a high real-world Wisdom score; Your Interpretation May Vary.Sigh... let's make a list of animals who have displayed amazing intelligence to "researchers."
Dolphins
Orcas
Sperm whales
Humpback whales
Gorillas
Chimpanzees
Cockatoos
Parrots
Crows
Ravens
Dogs
Cats
Horses
....etc. etc. etc...
So, let's just change them all OK?
Or, how about we treat the fantasy world as a fantasy world and stop trying to make it fit our own beliefs about the REAL world?
I cited these specifically because they have all been reported by researchers to be highly intelligent. I am not saying I agree with that (I mostly don't), but they aren't cited for their wisdom, but their intelligence.
In fact, the latest research provides very strong evidence that birds are generally more intelligent than mammals.
I saw a video of a dog that could retrieve hundreds of different toys by name alone.
Animals are smarter than most people realize, but they are also dumber than some people wish they were.
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I once played a talking sentient snail. I was in-between making a new character.
That snail had sound advice, it was a Deadpool like snail.
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If you take a dolphin as an animal companion you can teach it to understand common... and forge documents.
Foxes are so smart, the researchers have a hard time keeping track of them. Let's just say mammals have intelligence that varies. A kitsune is a fox born smart enough to learn magic. Kami, or animals that are magical simply because they are smart, can become animal companions at a far higher character level, with a feat. Kami are more common among dolphins, cats, and foxes.
If anything is wrong with the Dolphin stats block, it is that they are not Evil given they have been observed killing and raping for fun.
Again, not all dolphins are smart or lawful good.
Worse yet, the chemicle whastes being dumped in the ocean may be causing chemicle imbalences. That may be why some whales beach themselves.
In my world animals can have an Int up to 3.
0 unintelligent animals.
1 simple animals.
2 average mammals.
3 smart animals. (chimps and dolphins)
If anything is wrong with the Dolphin stats block, it is that they are not Evil given they have been observed killing and raping for fun.
:{
Raping... for fun?
If anything is wrong with the Dolphin stats block, it is that they are not Evil given they have been observed killing and raping for fun.
Then again, so have humans.
Who are lacking the 'Evil' tag in their racial description, as well...
So you want your dolphins to be able to speak common? They show signs of high wisdom, not intelligence.
sigh......much like in the real world it doesn't matter all dolphins do is add a little flavor to tunafish sandwiches, so as long as they have a tasty score of 15 or higher I am on board.
If you take a dolphin as an animal companion you can teach it to understand common... and forge documents.
"Ahh this document confirms that the scruffy looking man with a bow IS the second cousin of the Duke...and it states we should throw all our mackerel into the lake."
just rework them as a magical beast so no rules get broken.
Crows can pass information from generation to generation, hold funerals for their dead, have a complex social system, and can understand basic concepts of physics such as liquid displacement.
Should we then also increase crow intelligence if we're going to do dolphin?
Cephalopods can open jars to get food, squirt water at out-of-water lights to create darkness, and humboldt squids may have a colour based language more complex than our own, should we not increase their intelligence too?
Elephants can paint coherent pictures.
Apes can sign.
Dogs have shown the ability of deductive reasoning.
The int score of 1 covers all of this stuff.
Well goldfish also with an int of one can only remember things for 3 seconds tops.
Domesticated turkeys have been known to drown themselves by looking up during a rainstorm.
This thread is nice. I like it here. I may open a dolphin show.
I would treat animals as per the RAW, but in the case of special animals (like Flipper, Lassie, or that dog who knows over 400 words) as awakened or something similar.
Dolphins are just any other animal. They are wonderful once you determine the best cooking method. Mmmm...I do love that deep fried blow hole.
Goldfish have a high survival score.
Octopuses and squid are abberations. Of course they have a non vocal language. Smart squid are known as Kraken.
I did an internet search on dolphin rape sessions, and they said the female was unreceptive. Did she try to ram the males in the nuts or bite off his thing? Is this a bunch of male scientists trying to judge a very alien sexual behavior?
I'll have to look up this crow funeral thing
http://www.aviannation.com/showthread.php?735-A-Crow-Funeral
Just having smart animal or stupid animals (Int 1-2) isn't enough to cover the range of animal intelligence. The way I see it a dolphin is a whole level above a boar. The ability to understand languages is a big deal. A Int 3 is just fine imo. It's still in the same -4 penally range so it doesn't really change anything mechanics wise but makes things just a little more believable to me scale wise.