I can haz a scimitar!
None that I can see, really.
I'm sure there's reasons.
None of them are good ones. Mechanically, at least.
Arcane Heirophant? But that only works if your GM allows 3.5 material.
Because not every single character ever made and played has to be "UBER OPTIMIZED".
stunning, I know.
StreamsOfTheSky covered that. Mechanically, no good reasons, but I don't think the OP was asking for us to tell him a neat story. He even says, "other than 'hey, cool character idea'".
You are in the desert, and could really use create water. Or you just want a small selection of Druid spells for some other purpose. Or are working towards Mystic Theurge.
You want to pick up a domain of some sort or another for the ability, and prefer what the Druid is offering to the other classes that get one. Could be the class skills, proficiencies, whatever.
You want to pick up the Menhir Savant's at-will detection ability, or some other archetype ability.
Any of these would be perfectly logical reason to take a level of Druid. Even optimal, depending on the end goal you are moving towards.
Flavor.
Or Mystic Theurge.
It would have to be a three level dip - MT requires ability to cast 2nd level divine spells.
In such case I think that flavor is decent reason, as well as ability to use all druidic spell-trigger items, boost to Fort and Will. Also one of my favorite spells: good berry.
Again, if allowing 3.5 material, I'm pretty sure there is a feat that lets druid and wizard levels stack for the purposes of Animal Companion/Familiar progression. Also, if your GM allows it, I think it's Precocious Apprentice that allows for early entry shenanigans into Mystic Theurge or Arcane Heirophant.
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A stupid companion for your familiar to boss around.
A stupid companion for your familiar to boss around.
LOL!
Again, if allowing 3.5 material, I'm pretty sure there is a feat that lets druid and wizard levels stack for the purposes of Animal Companion/Familiar progression. Also, if your GM allows it, I think it's Precocious Apprentice that allows for early entry shenanigans into Mystic Theurge or Arcane Heirophant.
Boon Companion boosts companion level for that combination.
A stupid companion for your familiar to boss around.
Splendid idea. Maybe I should make such character somewhen.
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The title says it all. I can't see it, myself. (We're talking about dipping a single level here, or two at most. More than that and it's not really dipping IMO.)
I mean, you could totally do it for fun, and you could probably build an OK character. But would there ever be some strong reason to other than "hey, cool character idea?"
Doug M.
It's odd but there are mechanical benefits. A wizard/druid/theurge can combine the powerful and long-duration druid lockdown blasting via dazing spell, while having a solid line of magical tricks and fallbacks via arcane casting. Druid 7 / wizard 3 / theurge 10 would get you 9th level druid casting and 7th level wizard casting. You'd likely want to forgo the animal companion entirely and go with a domain instead.
Ah, but he wasn't talking about making the Druid the highest level class...he was talking as a Wizard taking a 1 or 2 level dip to Druid. Refer back to OP.
Not that Ashiel's build isn't worthy of mention...its a pretty awesome way to MT after all.
Oops, I misunderstood. Well, in that case you could always reverse it. Wizard 7 / Druid 3 / Theurge 10. Same spell progressions, only the other way around. Druid casting doesn't need particularly high levels to be effective. Dropping a dazing call lightning can easily be enough to pass through an entire encounter with when running on marathon mode; and being able to access divine druid spells can be useful for a wizard. You lose out on about 3 caster levels (but you can make those up with trait + ioun stone) an get access to a variety of new CC spells, damage over time spells (vicious with dazing spell), and quirky abilities (the druid's spellstaff spell allows you to place any spell you may cast -- including your wizard spells -- into the staff to cast later).
EDIT: Also druids have access to a lot of nice defensive spells that an arcanist would love. Dazing thorn body is just disgusting as a defense vs being grappled or attacked in melee.
Ashiel, you just love them druids dont you ;-)
For me, it would make sense to take up to level 4 in Druid since you'd gain the wildshape ability. With a Wizard 6/Druid 4/Theurge 10, things could get interesting.
Of course, that said, you'd still only have 3rd-level Wizard spells and 2nd-level Druid ones, so it might be better to go Wizard 5/ Druid 5/Theurge 10.
Of course, if you're not going the Theurge route, it still might make more sense to go Wizard 15/Druid 5 just to have access to the 3rd-level Druid spells, especially since you'd only gain access to 9th-level spells at 17th level. Though, I suppose it would also be a good argument for Wizard 17/Druid 3.
Views self as 'outdoorsy type' wants an animal companion, wild empathy, and survival skill.
Plus tossing a flaming sphere at targets in an entangle spell is just low level fun without equal.
Speaking in a roleplaying sense, Merlin could be said to have been part druid. "Dipping" a level or two would reflect a time your wizard spent with the druids, learning their language, earning their trust, becoming one of them so that he can ally with them effectively, and help them vanquish a common enemy.
Consider doing it for roleplaying's sake. Talk with your GM about getting a level in Druid, and perhaps gaining some advantages in your magic due to having insight into nature. A character shouldn't be a lone wolf, after all. The best written characters in novels are the ones with rich pasts and interesting relationships.
Ashiel, you just love them druids dont you ;-)
Actually I'm kind of neutral on druids. I'm playing one in a tabletop right now that has just recently hit 2nd level. She doesn't have much in the way of good blasting right now (that comes later), but she's basically been steamrolling encounters quite literally (oxen are 15 gp a piece and she trains them to mow her enemies down with their trample and +7/1d8+9 gore attacks).
I have no specific preference for druids though. If I had to pick a class to say was my favorite, it would probably be wizard, but that's because wizards have fun things and do a lot during downtime. I like collecting spells, crafting items, summon stuff, and be a support caster. I don't get a lot out of being the guy to kill every enemy on the field, or solve every problem. Simply being the guy who always has a surprise up their sleeve. :3
That's when I actually get to play mind you. I spend easily 90% (if not more) of my D&D time GMing. >.>
Arcane Armor Training, free armor and weapon proficienies, nice BAB and saves bumps, access to a huge spells list for item crafting/use of magic items, certain archetypes and domains ... plus, as Ashiel said, herds of oxen trampling foes on the cheap. If the oxen are killed you have purify food and water to keep your steaks fresh as well as providing a handy source of leather. Bonus points for enough Craft (leatherworking) and Craft (cooking) to be able to take 10 and craft masterwork armor and chow.
Level 4 "dip" as precursor to Mystic Theurge is a big plus with Natural Spell. Act as some one else's "familiar" for extra fun. Spam summon nature's ally as a Neutral character to bypass protection from and magic circle spells. Stirges are nasty!
Then, later, drop fireballs on them from orbit...
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Ashiel, you just love them druids dont you ;-)Actually I'm kind of neutral on druids. I'm playing one in a tabletop right now that has just recently hit 2nd level. She doesn't have much in the way of good blasting right now (that comes later), but she's basically been steamrolling encounters quite literally (oxen are 15 gp a piece and she trains them to mow her enemies down with their trample and +7/1d8+9 gore attacks).
I have no specific preference for druids though. If I had to pick a class to say was my favorite, it would probably be wizard, but that's because wizards have fun things and do a lot during downtime. I like collecting spells, crafting items, summon stuff, and be a support caster. I don't get a lot out of being the guy to kill every enemy on the field, or solve every problem. Simply being the guy who always has a surprise up their sleeve. :3
That's when I actually get to play mind you. I spend easily 90% (if not more) of my D&D time GMing. >.>
Huh. For some reason I always had you penned as a cleric or fighter girl. Though you do know how to lay down some MEAN spell combos.
You might only be playing a few levels, and the added hit dice and saves is still significant. Let's say that you go Wiz 4/Drd 2, you'd have lots of 1st level spells from both wizard and druid plus 2nd level wizard spells. When the highest normal spell level is 3rd at this point, 1st and 2nd level spells are still relevant, so having lots of them might be a good way to go.
Plus, if you are in a melee light group, having the animal companion might be helpful as something to redirect some attacks away from the squishies (as the armor proficiencies and extra hit points have also made you less squishy in the process).
The +3 to Fort is definitely significant at this level for the character and you'll probably have one of the most impressive will saves of your group.
You'll be a bit MAD, but if you focus on the druid's buffs, heals and no-save spells, then you can even get by with a pretty minimal wisdom and not really be that different in build from a normal wizard.
With a trait to boost your druid caster level, you might also choose to spontaneously convert your 1st level druid spells into 4-round duration summons. SNA offers the giant centipede, mite and stirge, which Summon Monster 1 does not. Not fantastic options, but potentially useful.
Also, if you are dealing with lots of work in tight spaces, take Cave Druid for Tunnel Runner might be useful. Urban druid might be useful for an urban campaign for the domains and the skill bonuses.
Taking one of the animal shaman archetypes gets you limited wildshape at level 2, if you want that. Lets you qualify for Natural Spell, so that you can cast your spells (including wizard spells) while wildshaped into an eagle or whatever.
Menhir Savant would just be nice. Spirit Sense can be very useful in the right games and Place Magic can give you a CL of 5 for your druid spells several times a day. Or even a CL of 6 for your wizard spells, since the ability does not limit you to increasing your druid caster level.
Going for Mooncaller can get you low-light or darkvision, if you need them.
As others mentioned, opening up the druid spell list for crafting, wands, scrolls and such is also nice.
I guess I retract my earlier statement about there being no mechanical reasons for dipping druid. There are plenty, they are just niche reasons. But niche reasons are pretty much the reason anyone multiclasses in Pathfinder.
Other than MT not really.
some cheese maybe...
some cheese maybe...
Methinks you do not understand what "cheese" is. When pretty much everyone is saying that the mechanical benefits are minor, at best, then "cheese" really isn't much of an option.
I could see a low-level wizard lost in the wilds. He thirsts for more magical power, but has been separated from his lab, his books, his elixirs. He is found by a shamanist-centric tribe, led by a druid. The druid is wise, and despite himself, the wizard finds he is intrigued by what the druid has to teach him about the natural world and the nature of divine natural magic. In time, the druid leads the wizard back to civilization a changed man, more aware of the big wide world out there, and with a new respect for divine casters. He is wiser now, and will use what he has learned to become a better wizard, a better adventurer, and a better person.
Barkskin and Mage Armor. Druid shapeshifts into animal form with spellcasting abilities...Flying monkey shooting fireballs!
A 10th level wizard can be strong enough to play with 11th level characters. Only the most hyperoptimized characters would make a 10th level wizard feel useless. The difference isn't that big - remember an 11th level oracle or sorcerer doesn't have 6th level spells either.
a hippie who thinks that only his magic bookpages give the right flavour to his weed?
and yes, in the grand scheme of things one lvl multiclassing doesn't matter, 10/10 with lvl 20 characters will have a hard time in general I guess.
mystic thurge is one choice along with the character witnessing the power of nature and wishing to learn more of it himself.
You want to play a witch and don't like the Pathfinder witch?
some cheese maybe...Methinks you do not understand what "cheese" is. When pretty much everyone is saying that the mechanical benefits are minor, at best, then "cheese" really isn't much of an option.
I'm quite aware of what cheese is.
"dipping" is cheese right off the bat. The fact that most replies point out the downside of taking a Druid level doesn't mean it isn't cheese, it just means the "cheese" is limited. Imo, the fact that the player is "dipping" into any class [for mechanical benefits, rather than for character development] is basically cheese.
Remember the line about losing a level of spell casting? Well, if you're not going to reach level 20 who cares? Spontaneous casters operate perfectly well being a casting level behind.
Kenderkin asked the right questions.
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some cheese maybe...Methinks you do not understand what "cheese" is. When pretty much everyone is saying that the mechanical benefits are minor, at best, then "cheese" really isn't much of an option.I'm quite aware of what cheese is.
"dipping" is cheese right off the bat. The fact that most replies point out the downside of taking a Druid level doesn't mean it isn't cheese, it just means the "cheese" is limited. Imo, the fact that the player is "dipping" into any class [for mechanical benefits, rather than for character development] is basically cheese.
Remember the line about losing a level of spell casting? Well, if you're not going to reach level 20 who cares? Spontaneous casters operate perfectly well being a casting level behind.
Kenderkin asked the right questions.
So cheese is doing something for mechanical reasons rather than roleplay reasons? Hrm. I was pretty sure that "cheese" was exploiting a mechanic in a way that it was not directly intended so as to creature a superior build in some specific area.
Doing something for mechanical reasons instead of roleplay reasons (as opposed to combining the two) is metagaming, which has nothing to do with power. I often have to metagame my character's actions because the game would grind to a halt otherwise. I metagame his trust for the other party members and for taking lots of quests. The OP might be metagaming ("Is there a mechanical benefit for doing this?") but not cheesing a build.
Since dipping can be done for roleplay reasons, dipping is not automatically cheese. If it makes you mechanically inferior, it isn't cheese. It might be an attempt at powergaming, but a misguided one.
As picking up only one or two levels of druids doesn't make the wizard more powerful than a normal wizard would be at that level, but either keeps the power level about the same or actually reduces it, it's not cheese. If most of the "good" reasons for dipping druid are roleplay reasons, then it's not cheese. If the mechanical benefits are small at best, it's not cheese.
In short, dipping, by its very nature is not inherently cheesy. Dipping can be cheesy, but cheese is independent of class combinations.