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So how would Batman's build be?
For stats I'm guessing he would be quite high in most stats:
Str 18 (Dude is ripped and largely fights unarmed)
Dex 16 (Not sure about this one)
Con 16 (Tough for a human, but by no means unbeatable)
Int 30 (world's greatest detective - too much?)
wis 16 (Sharp eyes and good hearing, plus he beats many opponents by learning from his mistakes. Also displays strong will)
Cha 16 (Playboy by day, terribly frightening by night)
For class levels I consider him somewhat of a careless multiclasser.
we start with 1 or 2 levels of Aristocrat.
Then he has a level of expert, picking up loads of knowledge skills.
3 levels of ranger, picking up Track, Favored Enemy (human) and Favored terrain (Urban).
After this I'm thinking a level or 4 of Monk, at which point I'd call it quits.
level 10 Aristocrat2/Expert1/Ranger3/Monk4
I haven't bothered to think about feats, but I'm sure you guys have varying ideas of how exactly Batman does his build.
Please post your own ideas and designs, and feel free to share your thoughts.
-Nearyn
Detective skills are largely represented by Wisdom or Charisma based skills in Pathfinder. Perception and Sense Motive for the literal detecting aspects. Bluff, Diplomacy and Intimidate for the interaction aspects of his detective work. Batman would also be talented at Acrobatics, Climb, and Stealth. Past that he should be proficient in Disable Device, Disguise, Knowledge (Local) and Sleight of Hand. I see Batman being pretty balanced in his abilities.
Class wise I am thinking the best bet is an Investigator (Rogue), Skirmisher Urban Ranger, Martial Artist (Monk), or Weapon Adept (Monk). Maybe a bit of one the monks with the some of either or both the range and rogue. Depends on how closely you want to stay or if you just want to emuluate Batman in general.
Load the character up with plenty of utility magical items.
Considering that Batman designs and/or makes a lot of his own equipment, I think a good fantasy representation of him would be to give him some levels as a wizard (with Item Creation feats) or Alchemist.
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Alchemist would at least compliment the Intelligence, but has anyone considered going barbarian instead of monk? In reality he is in armor, thus voiding most of what compliments the monk.
Barbarian
-gives good weapon proficiencies and base attack bonus, as well as a good Fort (lets face it, the other BIG thing Bats needs is good saves, honestly they kept him alive the most over all these years) and reactionary bonuses.
-Batman is pissed. All the time. Sometimes he lets out his frustration on bad guys. I give you: Rage. Next.
-Skills that compliment a ranger so well
Ranger
-Shares many barbarian skills.
-As OP originally stated, the aforementioned Track, Favored Enemy and Terrain, but also the Combat style feats, which can come in as a handy bonus you pick up on the way to Favored Terrain.
Fighter (Unarmed Fighter Archetype)
-Gives several bonus feats as well as opening up options like Weapon Specialization, as well as allowing feat options so you can let your unarmed strikes do nifty stuff, or take improved throw etc. Throw on a cestus or two, maybe some two weapon fighting, and you could have a decent non-monk unarmed fighter.
Make him an Alchemist as well and you have one independent dude who can kick some serious ass.
I am actually debating a Batman build with a 25 point buy, and now think I am closer than I first realized, but it won't be easy!
Don't get me wrong, I know my character will lack most of the awesomeness that is Batman, but what the hell, it may be a very fun thing to at least try.
I'd imagine Batman as a level 20 Ranger and a level 20 Ninja.
According to google images, you can argue Batman as any alignment.
http://writingiseasier.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/batman-alignment-chart.j pg
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I don't think of Batman as even close to epic level.
My original thought was closer to level 7 than 10.
After all Batman usually wins by outsmarting or outmaneuvering his opponents, or because of superior gadgets. Some of the supervillains are likely his equal in level, or even higher level than him.
Street level thugs, who make up the bulk of the people he fight, would be level 1 rogues and level 1 warriors, with the occasional big un' level 2 warrior thrown in there for good measure.
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Why is it always assumed that characters from movies, comics, and shows are 20th level?
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The boar style feats are pretty good for Batman.
Int 30 is ridiculously high. 18 - 20 would be about right.
Don't forget that batman is extremely well educated and would have a plethora of knowledge skills allowing him to identify the weaknesses and strengths of his enemies.
As for race, I see him being a half Orc for some reason.
@ Sauce987654321, aside from superman, I've never thought any super hero was lvl 20. A few villains on the otherhand....
Ninja... how did I forget that. Yes, I am thinking he is a multiclass Ninja/Urban Ranger. Skirmisher is optional depending on taste. First he takes two levels of Ninja going right for Unarmed Combat Training. From there he alternates Ranger and Ninja until he hits ranger 8th. Takes "Metropolis" as his second favored community and increases his bonus inside "Gotham" to +4. Goes for "archery" combat style to pick up Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot. Obviously at some point he picks up EWP Boomerang, probably 3rd level when he picks up his first Ranger level. Favored Enemy Humans to +4 is obvious. Maybe another Humanoid if they are common in his city or animals for his second. If going Skirmisher he should pickup Defensive Bow Stance and probably Hobbling Attack. Continuing with the Ninja Tricks past Uncarmed Combat Training I see Ledge Walker, Canny Observer, Follow Clues, Snap Shot, Rope Master, Fast Stealth, Darkvision, Smoke Bomb, and Acrobatic Master as possibilities, depending on which feat choices are taken. Improved Unarmed Strike might just be taken with a feat instead of a Ninja Trick. For Master Tricks he definitely goes for Unarmed Combat Mastery, then looks at Evasion, Improved Evasion, Defensive Roll, Slippery Mind, Knock-Out Blow, Thoughtful Reexamining, and Hide In Plain Sight (Urban) are all good choices.
His total level can be anywhere, depending where he is at experience wise in the game. He misses out on capstone abilities but that is alright. The Ninja capstone is somewhat fitting, so I could see going straight Ninja in that case and just picking up Terrain Mastery (Urban) and accepting no Favored Enemy bonus. Not ideal but a workable set up.
Grab Merciful Returning Boomerangs. Rope of Climbing. A plethora of Alchemical items. A magical Cestus of some type. Magical studded leather with some Shadow, some Fortification... Cloake of the Bat... plenty of useful utility items.
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Batman is a bard. He can do the Batusi.
Batman would be a Savant from Kobold Quarterly 18.
Barring that, he is no doubt a bard with magic fluffed as devices. Maybe Archaeologist.
He'd totally be a Paladin/Shadowdancer.
Batman is trained in a martial art discipline very similar to ninjutsu. He must have at least some ninja levels. After that I'm favouring the urban ranger.
Not sure about the gadgets. If this is for a fantasy universe, then I suppose they would need to be magical... If they're not magical, then he'd have expert levels I'd think.
I like this game.
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The Aristocrat class is b#%*@*@+ and nobody should ever use it for anything.
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Batman Stats, classes and level vary greatly between stories, authors and media.
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Int 30 is ridiculously high. 18 - 20 would be about right.
@ Sauce987654321, aside from superman, I've never thought any super hero was lvl 20. A few villains on the otherhand....
30 INT is to high. I think people forget that the extra +5 from 20 int as opposed to 10 is less than the full benefit of skill focus. for being good at stuff, stats are waaaaaaay less important than having max ranks in a skill.
People also forget that even the heroic NPC stat array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8. That's right, almost NO ONE has a 20 in any stat. The world record for deadlifting would imply a 22 str (1015 lbs), but I'm sure that's more like a 19 modified by feats (like one that lets you lift triple instead of double ("Run" for powerlifters)).
Of course, super heroes are super, but Batman isn't. Batman doesn't have or need horribly broken stats. His Str isn't that high. He's forever getting tossed and bashed by strong baddies. Also, He always uses escape artist when he's pinned under rocks or grappled. He fails plenty of fort saves, too. That's why he has gas masks, anti-venoms, and just about everything else in his belt.
However, I'd have to say the exact opposite about B-man vs S-man level wise: Batman is a mid-level character. Superman just has a ton of racial HDs and abilities.
Superman, Hulk, Thor, and the like are still CR a billions on HD alone. Kent and Banner have expert levels if anything. They're reporter and physicist respectively. Same with Wonder Woman, but to a lesser extent. She has a bunch of racial HD, but many, many fighter/barbie levels. Thor certainly has some fighter, but he mostly weilds a major artifact and is a god. Major Artifact goes for Flash, Green Lantern, and Iron Man as well.
Batman probably has +4-8 CR for his insane super-wealth. Batman has good equipment and decent levels.
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Monk/Inquisitor gestalt.
All tracking and knowledge skills. Interrogation skills, unarmed wham bam. Judgements to enhance comabt abilities.
Has leadership feat with a high level alchemist as a cohort with item creation feats and an ex SAS butler.
(Dark Knight movie version)
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Since there are hundreds of different stories and batman is represented in many different ways, I'll use the Batman Begins/Dark Knight batman (since that's the one I encountered last I saw anything).
I'd say about:
Str 14 (he's strong, but not a body builder)
Dex 16 (very agile, with good coordination)
Con 14 (he seems tough, but hardly a brick wall)
Int 16 (he's very clever and is good at a s%@+load of different things, and is a good inventor)
Wis 14 (perceptive with good intuiton)
Cha 10 (while he can sometimes get what he wants through "diplomacy", that's mostly threatening to kill people... which is more of a circumstance modifier than high natural ability. He isn't really a people's person)
I'd put him at about fighter 3/rogue 4 (in those movies - he might be far higher in some comics) at the end of the dark knight; he can quickly beat goons, has a high "use (magic) device" and can move around unhindered in his armor.
I don't think he's much higher than 7th level - after all, he still cares at all if regular people see him. The world of gotham isn't like golarion - the Joker isn't a 20th level lich wizard out to conquer the world, he's a 4th level rogue with a high charisma.
Str 16
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 14
wis 12
Cha 14
Human, level 7 bard
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You could make 1,000 different batman archetypes.
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When doing a conversion, best not to think about trying to duplicate specific abilities or events from the character's canon. Think instead about what role he would play in a pathfinder party. If you think of the Justice League as a party, Batman works in the shadows as a scout/infiltrator and overall skill-monkey.
His signature abilities should be Dex (for sneaking, dodging, and leaping acrobatically around rooftops) and Intelligence (for developing lots of skills and working out puzzles and mysteries).
His class should probably be rogue/ninja or ranger. His weapons are batarangs (shuriken), and unarmed strike.
He should invest in feats like Combat expertise, Improved Unarmed strike, weapon focus, etc.
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I will agree that his Wisdom is pretty high, but it can be a 16 with Iron Will. I think that some of his training is as a monk, to a certain extent. This would be reflected in his training in the Orient. Then I think after that it would be as a Ranger. He has spent much of his adult life studying people, learning their ins and outs. This means Favored Enemy to me.
I would stay away from Inquisitor, simply because Batman relies on skill and his equipment rather than the Divine. He has actually seemed to be more of a mind that God did not save my family, so I have no one to rely on but myself. (I mean look at all of the failsafes that he has against the JLA.)
He is smart, but still relies on other people to create a lot of the tech he uses and then purchases their inventions or hires them in his R&D department. So I would not put him much past a 16 Int either.
His Cha is high, of that I have no doubt, but I also believe he has the Persuasive Feat and Skill Focus Intimidate. At 10th level that equates to a +10 to Intimidate on top of actual skill. He also has used Diplomacy at times too.
I think he might have a few levels of Bard as well, and probably would have to have created his own Batman Prestige Class that requires Bardic Knowledge, Favored Enemy, and probably a few Skill requirements and BAB.
Just my 2 cents, but there you have it.
Inquisitor is for the class mechnics only not for the fluff.
Batman INT could be argued, but often his problem isn't "I don't know how" but "I don't have the time"
Also his physical stats are pretty high (but not optimized for a single thing) and his skills complement them well.
His WIS/will could be pretty high too, but that seems to depend on the author and the story need.
He probably also has several bonus feats.
Str 18 (Dude is ripped and largely fights unarmed)
Dex 16 (Not sure about this one)
Con 16 (Tough for a human, but by no means unbeatable)
Int 30 (world's greatest detective - too much?)
wis 16 (Sharp eyes and good hearing, plus he beats many opponents by learning from his mistakes. Also displays strong will)
Cha 16 (Playboy by day, terribly frightening by night)
Stats look alright, but I would say for class levels, probably fighter or paladin into shadow dancer. The shadow conjuration and evocation abilities make good subtitues for his gadgets and belt while shadow jump makes for good shadow use for stealth.
When doing a conversion, best not to think about trying to duplicate specific abilities or events from the character's canon. Think instead about what role he would play in a pathfinder party. If you think of the Justice League as a party, Batman works in the shadows as a scout/infiltrator and overall skill-monkey.
His signature abilities should be Dex (for sneaking, dodging, and leaping acrobatically around rooftops) and Intelligence (for developing lots of skills and working out puzzles and mysteries).
His class should probably be rogue/ninja or ranger. His weapons are batarangs (shuriken), and unarmed strike.
He should invest in feats like Combat expertise, Improved Unarmed strike, weapon focus, etc.
I agree with this. Batman should have a high Strength, Dexterity Wisdom, and Intelligence. Batman's hand to hand combat skills are powerful. He is a smart businessman. Highly skilled and trained in the arts with a high wisdom factor. An Expert in hiding in the shadows, sneaking, and acrobatics. He can create fear to his enemies and make them go into a scared mode. Due to all his fights and exposure to chemicals (Scarecrow, Joker). Batman may not have the best Constitution score, tho he seems to dazzle women with his high Charisma as Bruce Wayne.
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Batman would have to be rolled as point buy could not do the dark knight justice, he is practically peek human in every ability stat Id say. Given his background and training Id say the best class options are along the lines of Monk, Ninja, Ranger and Shadow Dancer (Or some kind of unique Dark Knight Prestige class that encompasses his huge array of skills) with lots of cool gear and a handy haversack that resembles a yellow belt.
If you guys can't create Batman using a 20 point buy, you're doing it wrong. He's a human. He's not Superman, and he's not a god. He has above average strength, constitution, intelligence, and wisdom. The rest is training, gadgets, and sheer force of will.
Agreed. I've given it a go. I'd give him a spread of 15, 14, 10, 14, 13, 13, but I'm sure we could all argue over his ability scores/level for hours. It'd scale quite well as he levels up, making him viable at whatever power level you place him at.
As for classes I'd give him 3 levels of Urban Ranger. MAYBE more. Depending on the adaption, he may only be a 3rd level character (fighting off first and second level unarmored thugs and several skinny psychopaths), or he may have some other class levels on top of that. Depending on how adverse you are to multiclassing, I'd say either ninja or lore-warden fighter levels. I'm hesitant to give batman invisibility, but rather have him use smoke bombs and bluff checks and the like to use his ungodly stealth skill.
The challenge is deciding what mundane gear, alchemical and wondrous items he has in his arsenal. Going purely by the magic items in the PRD... What do you guys think?
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ALL the Alchemicals.
You know what, I find it easier to make Bat-family characters.
Nightwing- High Dex and Charisma, Acrobatics focus(Duh)
Red Hood- High Strength and Dex Gunslinger, Revenant template?
Red Robin- High Int, High Knowledge and Survival
Robin (Damian)- High Int and Dex, Intimidate focus, low Will saves
Batgirl (Stephanie Brown)- High Dex and High Cha
Batgirl (Cassandra Cain)- High Dex and Wis, has monk and rogue levels
Batgirl (Barbara Gordon)- High Int and Dex
Alfred Pennyworth- High Int and Cha, High Diplomacy, Intimidate and Heal. Has Gunslinger levels
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My picks would be straight ranger with Urban Ranger and Wild Stalker archetypes, at least L10. I'd re-imagine the ranger spells as suit abilities or something like that and pick the ones that are less flashy like Magic Fang, Jump, Longstrider etc. The Build (using the array above) would look something like:
Str: 15+1 4th
Dex: 14+2
Con: 14
Int: 13+1 8th
Wis: 10
Cha: 13
Skills focused in Stealth, Acrobatics, Climb, Intimidate, Know: Local, Perception, Disable Device as primary skills, then sprinkle skills in Profession:rich dude, Know: Nobility, Know: Science and stuff, computer use etc.
U.R. adds Know: Local and Disable Device to class lists
1) Strong senses (low light vision), Track, Wild Empathy (bats)
- Feats: Unarmed Strike, Deflect Arrows (Bullets)
2) Uncanny Dodge (no style feat)
3) Favoured Community, Trapfinding
- Feat: Exotic weapon proficiency (Batarangs - as a better shuriken or something)
4) Rage as Barbarian 3 levels lower
5) Rage Power 1: Intimidating Glare
- Feat: Dodge
6) +2 insight to Stealth, Combat style feat: Two Weapon Fighting
7) Push Through (no difficult terrian in fav. Community)
- Feat: Mobility
8) Swift Tracker, 2nd Fav. Community
9) Evasion
- Feat: Spring Attack
10) Rage Power 2: No Escape, Combat Style Feat: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Continuing on, he eventually gets stealth in place of disguise, greater invisibility. Gear would include the suit (high AC light armour, as some kind of fancy mithril breastplate), grapple gun, batarangs, puffs of smoke to get instant concealment. Maybe the fists of the suit itself could be an improved damage punching tool (as magic gauntlets or something).
He'd Rage for 20 str in a fight, have stealth out the wazoo if he only operated at night (lots of concealment vs. nobodies with no low light vision).
I'd make him the only person in the world who is of the Batman class.
But in all honesty, figure out which version of batman you want to represent, and go with that, trying to fit everything that's been published from 1939 would be impossible
I like it, Greycloak. I also like how early you can get deflect arrows and favored community and low-light vision and uncanny dodge are just icing on the cake. To me that's enough to make Batman Batman, so it's nice to know you could do it at level three or four.
For gear, I'd give him goggles of night in the eye slot, definately.
From there? A grappler's mask or helm of the fearsome mein seem the most appropriate picks for the head slot, both are in the APG. A vest of escape for the chest. A necklace of adaption coudl easily be refluffed as a gas mask.
The Cloak of the Bat was MADE for him, albiet without the beast shape effect. Gloves of bullet snaring would be a good pick if he's somehow lacking Deflect Arrows. For the utility belt, I'd give him a healers kit, antitoxin, mwk. thieves tools, a climbers kit, smoke pellets from the APG, a thunderstone, a bolas, his batarangs and some masterwork manacles.
In a more high-magic setting, he could have a candle of truth, an abundance of potions and elixirs, some bands of binding, an amulet of mighty fists and some dimensional shackles, boots of elvenkind or boots of friendly terrain (APG) and possibly some custom made items such as pellets of stinking cloud and the like.
All that's missing is the grapple gun and some sort of tracking device. Any other ideas?
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Cha 16 (Playboy by day, terribly frightening by night)
He fights crime all night.
When he's not fighting crime, he's training.When he's not training, he's memorizing useless s&*@ in case the Riddler uses it in some riddle.
And I assume he sleeps at some point.
When the hell is he putting on the "Bruce Wayne, playboy" facade?
He should be known as a recluse who people aren't even sure actually exists...not a playboy.
He found a plot hole!! EVERYONE, RUN!!
Cha 16 (Playboy by day, terribly frightening by night)
He fights crime all night.
When he's not fighting crime, he's training.
When he's not training, he's memorizing useless s#@& in case the Riddler uses it in some riddle.
And I assume he sleeps at some point.When the hell is he putting on the "Bruce Wayne, playboy" facade?
He should be known as a recluse who people aren't even sure actually exists...not a playboy.
He is Batman, and his Batcave exist outside of time and space.
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Cha 16 (Playboy by day, terribly frightening by night)
He fights crime all night.
When he's not fighting crime, he's training.
When he's not training, he's memorizing useless s*!& in case the Riddler uses it in some riddle.
And I assume he sleeps at some point.When the hell is he putting on the "Bruce Wayne, playboy" facade?
He should be known as a recluse who people aren't even sure actually exists...not a playboy.
He can take three to five hours of daylight time to manage his businesses and about an hour or two to socialise on early night. He can take nights off as Gotham is patrolled by 7 or so others from Batman Inc. Even Robin (current, Damian Wayne) does solo patrols. But I imagine he takes time off patrols to do major investigations.
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Related, yet not.
Was gonna bring that up
High Intimidate Skill= Invitation to Sinestro Corps
High Will Save= Invitation to Green Lantern Corps
Putting aside the obvious "comic-ism" of his stats varying depending upon the needs of the story, I have a very hard time seeing Batman having less than a 16 in any physical stats, and I wouldn't think 18 in all three would be outrageous.
STR 18
DEX 18
CON 18
INT 18
WIS 14
CHR 17