Because even low level outsiders often have greater teleport at will. Limited to self and 50 lbs gear but still it means superb messenger, spy or gear transport.Is having a messenger, spy or gear transport - all effects that could be duplicated with 1st level spells - really that overpowered? Especially considering that you generally have access to these guys for only a few rounds at low levels and they have to have seen where they are teleporting to? Not much of a window there...
Yes, it is overpowered IMO.
Please show me the level 1 spells that can duplicate (greater) teleport
- for positioning
- intelligence gathering
- message relay
- gear transport
This can easily be abused. Even if it's just a few rounds :-)
Because even low level outsiders often have greater teleport at will. Limited to self and 50 lbs gear but still it means superb messenger, spy or gear transport.Is having a messenger, spy or gear transport - all effects that could be duplicated with 1st level spells - really that overpowered? Especially considering that you generally have access to these guys for only a few rounds at low levels and they have to have seen where they are teleporting to? Not much of a window there...Yes, it is overpowered IMO.
Please show me the level 1 spells that can duplicate (greater) teleport
- for positioning
- intelligence gathering
- message relay
- gear transportThis can easily be abused. Even if it's just a few rounds :-)
Keeping in mind that they can only teleport themselves, not other characters, and they can only teleport to a place that they've been - and that a few rounds isn't a whole lot of time to have 'been' anywhere - I just can't see how its overpowered.
Floating Disk would hold 10x that weight in gear - or more - and lasts for an hour/level meaning that you could transport that gear much further... Whispering Wind is the spell I was thinking about though its 2nd level and would be infinitely more valuable than using a summoned creature to serve as a messenger.
We're talking about something that can cast Aid at will and radiates an Aura that Shakens foes... being able to teleport a few hundred feat - alone - is hardly overpowered.
Two 6th level Conjureres (summon monster have duration at least 9 rounds, more with Varisian Tattoo, Spell Specialization, Gifted Adept, etc. Gods forbid if they took Magical Lineage trait and Extend Spell feat or invested into Lesser Rods of Extend Spell... Hell, replace one of Conjureres with Conjuration oriented Cleric) spend three rounds conjuring one Lantern Archon per round. We have a task force of six Lantern Archons with at least 6 rounds of duration remaining for two of them. Now they command them to teleport to another section of dungeon/enemy base/whatever... Five rounds of Lantern Archon mayhem ensues. Party can enter the fray at desired moment wiping the remains. If they manage to improve duration more they could possibly buff the archons prior to sending them... cat's grace and haste?! Ouch...
Because even low level outsiders often have greater teleport at will. Limited to self and 50 lbs gear but still it means superb messenger, spy or gear transport.Is having a messenger, spy or gear transport - all effects that could be duplicated with 1st level spells - really that overpowered? Especially considering that you generally have access to these guys for only a few rounds at low levels and they have to have seen where they are teleporting to? Not much of a window there...Yes, it is overpowered IMO.
Please show me the level 1 spells that can duplicate (greater) teleport
- for positioning
- intelligence gathering
- message relay
- gear transportThis can easily be abused. Even if it's just a few rounds :-)
Keeping in mind that they can only teleport themselves, not other characters, and they can only teleport to a place that they've been - and that a few rounds isn't a whole lot of time to have 'been' anywhere - I just can't see how its overpowered.
Floating Disk would hold 10x that weight in gear - or more - and lasts for an hour/level meaning that you could transport that gear much further... Whispering Wind is the spell I was thinking about though its 2nd level and would be infinitely more valuable than using a summoned creature to serve as a messenger.
We're talking about something that can cast Aid at will and radiates an Aura that Shakens foes... being able to teleport a few hundred feat - alone - is hardly overpowered.
Greater teleport has no range limit, no miss chance and only needs a description. Even with teleport is not so difficult to (ab)use.
The creatures can carry equipment you *give* them and thus transport quickly important items to places you define. Entire adventures are often build around succeeding in bringing an item from place a to place b. At low levels this would end them very quickly.
Whispering wind has a much smaller range than a creature with access to teleportation, dimension door or similar abilities.
Extending spells also increases the duration further. The increased duration of the summmoner's summons are even more difficult there :-)
I suspect the specific target of this is the ability to have everyone step into a Bag of Holding, call up a teleporting outsider, Spend one round getting into the bag yourself, then have the outsider pick up the bag (the contents of which are arguably now 'gear') and teleport "back to town for a quick round of healing from the local cleric" before going right back at it.Because even low level outsiders often have greater teleport at will. Limited to self and 50 lbs gear but still it means superb messenger, spy or gear transport.Is having a messenger, spy or gear transport - all effects that could be duplicated with 1st level spells - really that overpowered? Especially considering that you generally have access to these guys for only a few rounds at low levels and they have to have seen where they are teleporting to? Not much of a window there...
That would be even cheesier, but yes, one way to do it :-P
Two 6th level Conjureres (summon monster have duration at least 9 rounds, more with Varisian Tattoo, Spell Specialization, Gifted Adept, etc. Gods forbid if they took Magical Lineage trait and Extend Spell feat or invested into Lesser Rods of Extend Spell... Hell, replace one of Conjureres with Conjuration oriented Cleric) spend three rounds conjuring one Lantern Archon per round. We have a task force of six Lantern Archons with at least 6 rounds of duration remaining for two of them. Now they command them to teleport to another section of dungeon/enemy base/whatever... Five rounds of Lantern Archon mayhem ensues. Party can enter the fray at desired moment wiping the remains. If they manage to improve duration more they could possibly buff the archons prior to sending them... cat's grace and haste?! Ouch...
Correct me if I'm wrong - but the lanterns could not teleport to a place they've never been, correct?
Because even low level outsiders often have greater teleport at will. Limited to self and 50 lbs gear but still it means superb messenger, spy or gear transport.Is having a messenger, spy or gear transport - all effects that could be duplicated with 1st level spells - really that overpowered? Especially considering that you generally have access to these guys for only a few rounds at low levels and they have to have seen where they are teleporting to? Not much of a window there...Yes, it is overpowered IMO.
Please show me the level 1 spells that can duplicate (greater) teleport
- for positioning
- intelligence gathering
- message relay
- gear transportThis can easily be abused. Even if it's just a few rounds :-)
Keeping in mind that they can only teleport themselves, not other characters, and they can only teleport to a place that they've been - and that a few rounds isn't a whole lot of time to have 'been' anywhere - I just can't see how its overpowered.
Floating Disk would hold 10x that weight in gear - or more - and lasts for an hour/level meaning that you could transport that gear much further... Whispering Wind is the spell I was thinking about though its 2nd level and would be infinitely more valuable than using a summoned creature to serve as a messenger.
We're talking about something that can cast Aid at will and radiates an Aura that Shakens foes... being able to teleport a few hundred feat - alone - is hardly overpowered.
Greater teleport has no range limit, no miss chance and only needs a description. Even with teleport is not so difficult to (ab)use.
The creatures can carry equipment you *give* them and thus transport quickly important items to places you define. Entire adventures are often build around succeeding in bringing an item from place a to place b. At low levels this would end them very quickly.
Whispering wind has a much smaller range than a...
I was unaware that Greater Teleport allows you to teleport unerringly to a place you've never been. We've certainly never played that way. For us Teleport has always been line-of-sight or someplace you've been before.
Exactly. Maybe you should look up Azataas first? ;-)
Why? I answered the question in the thread's title... :-)Matches your diety's alignment, not yours.
So you can't summon any evil or Lawful creatures. :0)
I'm perfectly aware of them being CG. You on the other hand are either ignorant of the fact that there have been a lot of confusion on how this feat works or you are just trolling/jerking around.
This is not the first thread discussing this feat so obviously people have a problem understanding it. The aura thing, the subtype thing, the Caster's alignment vs. deity's alignment thing.Posting your cleric's NG alignment and omitting the deity's CG alignment is not helping. Especially not for new players or people new to pathfinder. The cleric being NG does not affect this feat or the ability to summon creatures, since deity's alignment is CG.
Exactly. Maybe you should look up Azataas first? ;-)
Why? I answered the question in the thread's title... :-)Matches your diety's alignment, not yours.
So you can't summon any evil or Lawful creatures. :0)I think people's confusion is that you're talking about using a NG cleric to use Sacred Summons when summoning CG creatures.
Which it cannot do.
I suspect you neglected to mention you are a NG cleric of a CG god, thus your aura is CG (even though you are not) and thus sacred summons on the azataas works just fine.
There's a piece of info not obvious causing the confusion.
+1
He is just ignorant of the confusion, or he is being a smart*ss.He should change his chaotic ways or confusion will be his epitaph
muahahaha
BTW,...
Frank Zappa wrote: "Stupidity has a certain charm - ignorance does not"
Moo-ahhhh
Exactly. Maybe you should look up Azataas first? ;-)
Why? I answered the question in the thread's title... :-)Matches your diety's alignment, not yours.
So you can't summon any evil or Lawful creatures. :0)I'm perfectly aware of them being CG. You on the other hand are either ignorant of the fact that there have been a lot of confusion on how this feat works or you are just trolling/jerking around.
This is not the first thread discussing this feat so obviously people have a problem understanding it. The aura thing, the subtype thing, the Caster's alignment vs. deity's alignment thing.
Posting your cleric's NG alignment and omitting the deity's CG alignment is not helping. Especially not for new players or people new to pathfinder. The cleric being NG does not affect this feat or the ability to summon creatures, since deity's alignment is CG.
Now you are offensive with no reason. Everyone can look up Desna, and your lawful or evil comment did not fit at all.
I personally do not see any reason for confusion here, the feat's description and aura definition are clear. Others like cheapy seem have to got it right as well, so I am not the only one. So don't start insulting, please.I answered the thread's question, that's all.
Everyone can look up Desna,
True, but you never mentioned that your cleric serves Desna before this post. You only said he was NG.
Which may lead to confusion for anyone coming to this thread looking for advice. Zark has a point there, even though I won't comment on his tone.
Exactly. Maybe you should look up Azataas first? ;-)
Why? I answered the question in the thread's title... :-)Matches your diety's alignment, not yours.
So you can't summon any evil or Lawful creatures. :0)I think people's confusion is that you're talking about using a NG cleric to use Sacred Summons when summoning CG creatures.
Which it cannot do.
I suspect you neglected to mention you are a NG cleric of a CG god, thus your aura is CG (even though you are not) and thus sacred summons on the azataas works just fine.
There's a piece of info not obvious causing the confusion.
Ok, I thought Cheapy's post had cleared it up. I usually post information you cannot look up, like my cleric's alignment. Desna you can look up. Sorry if that was confusing :-)
Everyone can look up Desna,True, but you never mentioned that your cleric serves Desna before this post. You only said he was NG.
Which may lead to confusion for anyone coming to this thread looking for advice. Zark has a point there, even though I won't comment on his tone.
Ah, ok, you are right :-)
Must have deleted that accidentally. That could be confusing, yes.
So yes, it's CG deity. It was not central to the op's thread question, so I did not elaborate too much :-)
Wow I am glad I saw this post. We were doing this SOOOOO wrong.
We were going by the cleric's alignment not the god's.
We thought celestial changed the type.
We allowed the teleports, just not teleporting others.
Sometimes we are just so messed up.
{ sigh }
What's worse... We were messed up against ourselves. None of the PC's did any of this. It was all opposition summoners hitting us.
{ sigh again }
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Everyone can look up Desna,True, but you never mentioned that your cleric serves Desna before this post. You only said he was NG.
Which may lead to confusion for anyone coming to this thread looking for advice. Zark has a point there, even though I won't comment on his tone.Ah, ok, you are right :-)
Must have deleted that accidentally. That could be confusing, yes.
So yes, it's CG deity. It was not central to the op's thread question, so I did not elaborate too much :-)
Even though I thought you were trying to be a smart*ass I should have dropped the snark remarks on my behalf. My BAd. But my message still stands. You should have read the thread. At least the OP:s post/posts.
Prerequisites: Aura class feature, ability to cast summon monster.
Benefit: When using summon monster to summon creatures whose alignment subtype or subtypes exactly match your aura, you may cast the spell as a standard action instead of with a casting time of 1 round.
--
I assume when you summon any creature with as "asterisk" next to its name that its Celestial and thus matches your alignment, NOT your diety's?
E.g.: Your Diety is LG, but you are LN.
My bold. ¨
If you had read the OP:s question instead just the name of the thread you would have noticed it was central to the op's question.Cleric's alignment vs. Deity's alignment.
And you would also have noticed that there was/is some confusion regarding this feat (and some other stuff, like the stuff regarding the cleric's aura, alignment subtype vs. Celestial/fiendish template )
Heck, even wraithstrike got it a bit wrong and that isn't usual....as far as I Know.
Everyone can look up Desna,True, but you never mentioned that your cleric serves Desna before this post. You only said he was NG.
Which may lead to confusion for anyone coming to this thread looking for advice. Zark has a point there, even though I won't comment on his tone.Ah, ok, you are right :-)
Must have deleted that accidentally. That could be confusing, yes.
So yes, it's CG deity. It was not central to the op's thread question, so I did not elaborate too much :-)Even though I thought you were trying to be a smart*ass I should have dropped the snark remarks on my behalf. My BAd. But my message still stands. You should have read the thread. At least the OP:s post/posts.
Prerequisites: Aura class feature, ability to cast summon monster.
Benefit: When using summon monster to summon creatures whose alignment subtype or subtypes exactly match your aura, you may cast the spell as a standard action instead of with a casting time of 1 round.
--
I assume when you summon any creature with as "asterisk" next to its name that its Celestial and thus matches your alignment, NOT your diety's?
E.g.: Your Diety is LG, but you are LN.
My bold. ¨
If you had read the OP:s question instead just the name of the thread you would have noticed it was central to the op's question.Cleric's alignment vs. Deity's alignment.
And you would also have noticed that there was/is some confusion regarding this feat (and some other stuff, like the stuff regarding the cleric's aura, alignment subtype vs. Celestial/fiendish template )Heck, even wraithstrike got it a bit wrong and that isn't usual....as far as I Know.
Again, as I wrote, I thought it was settled with Cheapy's post. So for me it was sufficient to reply to the question that seemed not to be really answered in all those discussions: Is the feat worth it?
Well, anyway, for me it is settled :-)
So, for a cleric of a LN deity the feat is totally useless then? Or is there anything he could summon?
So, for a cleric of a LN deity the feat is totally useless then? Or is there anything he could summon?
Yes it is totally useless.
How would it work for a maagayaban arcanist?
If you're going elbow deep in summonings you also pick feats like
And
For some alignments that really expands the options available.
That’s a big thread necro. If it’s not for PFS, check out the Summon Guardian Spirit feat. It can give you a good reliable option starting at level 5.