I have returned to Pathfinder after 4E being such a huge disappointment for me...especially the 4E "Witch"
We are starting a new campaign and I have never played the PF Witch before.
I thought about making a 1/2 elf witch/monk......the character is an asian themed character so I thought the witch/monk might be fun. The DM has allowed me to use the Kung Fu Master feat which allows me to use INT instead of Wis. I was planning on only taking 1 lvl in monk for the extra AC bonus as I was only interested in the defensive abilities of the Monk and not the attack abilities.
Is this a bad idea to make a INT based Monk/Witch or should I stick with just straight Witch. If I go straight Witch, how should I boost my defenses?
Any suggestions what would be good Traits to take? I took the one which gives me an extra cantrip from another list as I love Presdigitation.
Thanks to anyone who can give me advice.
Multi-classing in pathfinder is generally much less powerful than sticking with a single class (very different from 3.5). If your GM has said that he/she wants to have a low-power campaign, and encourages all the characters to multi-class, then go for it, but if the other players are going to stick with a single class, you will quickly fall behind the power-curve. Additionally, both Witch and Monk get extra punished for multi-classing. (most of their abilities are based on class-level)
1 Level of Monk can be useful for any Class. +2 all saves 3 bonus feats bonus AC, ect. The witch is a great buff mage, take Transformation or Strength patron if your going for melee
Trait:
Magical Knack +2 CL as long as it doesn't raise it above your HD
Good for multiclass casters.
-Flash
Not planning on meleeing.
My party consists of Magus, Cleric, Barbarian & Alchemist so I have others who will be up front. It will be a very brutal campaign where if you die, you die. Smart enemies will target my familiar - I choose alitle dragon lizard so he can remain hidden on my person.
I want to focus on Debuffing & control. I want to focus mostly on my Hexes. I was planning on taking Flight, Sleep, Cackle & Evil Eye.
Should I dip the one lvl into Monk for the AC bonus & DEX skills like acrobatics OR focus on just Witch, get Scribe Scroll & load up on Mage Armor?
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its a bad idea. monk would net you... nothing that would be usful to a witch. you would need 5 stats to function. that means a +1 or better in 5 scores.
it would be a better choice to go solid witch, or monk/hexcrafter magus.
now a hex crafter magus would be pretty sweet if you used a kukuri and unarmed attack. unarmed strike + hex strike is very awesome.
If your not gonna melee then I would skip the monk both thematically and mechanically.
Cackle is great even with just evil eye because it lasts at least 1 round can be cackled every round for 1 extra round and you can use evil eye over and over on differnt stats, AC or Saves or to Hit. That being said I would still pick up Fortune Hex as a Debuff mage. Toss in some Persistant spell metamagic later on. Good Times.
-Flash
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If it sounds fun to play, then it may be worth playing.
While others before are right in that it's not the strongest class combo, it's not horrible to the point of worthlessness as some people seem to be suggesting. So long as you don't try to do everything that both classes offer at once you should be fine. Pick one or two things you want to be good at and focus on those.
Ultimate Combat provides a lot a feats for multiclassed monks too. Flipping through it, it looks like the witch/monk one is Hex Strike, which is more useful for a primarily monk character than a primarily witch one, so that's unfortunate. It also relies on your unarmed strike, so if you're staying out of melee it won't be useful to you. Again, unfortunate since Hex Strike is one of the few things a witch/monk can do that generally wouldn't be possible without the class combo.
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I like the backstory possibilities - parents/guardians embarrassed of developing witch abilities, so they send him/her to a monestary, which ends badly....
Of course, fun back stories don't always do well in combat. I have an oracle with Attention Deficit Disorder and a converted character from Gamma World that would have made better town NPCs than adventurers
So bassically you want to lose a caster level to get +2 to all Saves and add INT to your AC (which might easily mean +6 or so) that adds with anything.
I'd say thematically it's not really sound, but from a pure powergaming point of view, it might work.
It's a horrible idea mechanically. Int is one of only two dump stats a monk has, and wis is hardly high on a witch's totem pole. And a witch loses more than just about any other caster by multiclassing, since hexes are so good.
EDIT: Missed that Kung Fu Genius was allowed. It's still pretty subpar to dilute the witch levels and witch certainly lacks the BAB and HD to fight well, but for purely defensive boons...I guess 1 level in monk isn't awful. If you're only interested in defense, consider Master of Many Styles and go for Crane Wing (if you take Dodge at level 1 or any time before monk, and go into monk at level 3 or any odd level thereafter, you can take Crane Style as your general feat and Crane Wing as your monk feat).
I'm all for trying to make Bayonetta, but the existing witch class isn't very good for making a "witch" from that game. Perhaps a dex-based Hexcrafter Magus that dips MoMS Monk and uses Hex Strike for swift action unarmed hex delivery could work. Using gestalt rules from 3e certainly makes a kung fu witch easier to do...
Hmm so if I went pure Witch but still want the "flavor" of martial arts, are there any feats I could pick up that thematically it could be "martial arts"?
Is a Witch able to use a Spellbook as a backup if her familiar goes SPLAT??
It would be a backup that she could use as "scrolls" to reteach a new familiar those spells. I guess I could always keep rolled up scrolls in a tube too.
Witch has d6 HD, poor BAB, and terrible proficiencies. If you want a "martial arts witch" the best you can currentl do is Hexcrafter Magus. Or use gestalt rules, where you advance two classes simultaneously and combine witch with any melee class you want. Except Barbarian...rage does not mix well with casters...
Hmm so if I went pure Witch but still want the "flavor" of martial arts, are there any feats I could pick up that thematically it could be "martial arts"?
Personally, I would just reflavor Intimidate's Demoralize action and the Evil Eye and Misfortune hexes as special scary or debilitating "martial arts" moves.
You're not the kind of martial artist that punches and kicks. Instead you throw little marbles or darts or something to hit pressure points that hinder your foes.
Traits
Unnatural Presence
Feats:
Skill Focus (Intimidate)
Persuasive
Ability Focus (Misfortune) - if GM allows
Ability Focus (Evil Eye) - if GM allows
Go for it. Have fun. Screw the munchkins.
Where did you get the Kung Fu feat?
Where did you get the Kung Fu feat?
It is from Dragon Magazine #319
That sounds like a blast go for the Wonk!
Or the Mitch!
-Moox
Witch/Monk would be hilarious. It's a TERRIBLE combination, but hilarious.
My suggestion: Go White-Haired Witch and tie people up in your hair, grappling everyone nearby you so you don't need to worry about AC.
As it is, as a witch you can Heal, Hex, and dish out epic pain. Get Bracers of Armor, you don't need Monk for the AC.
Admittedly, if there was a way to play Witch/Monk effectively? I would TOTALLY do that. It's too hilarious not to try.
Hmm so if I went pure Witch but still want the "flavor" of martial arts, are there any feats I could pick up that thematically it could be "martial arts"?
Could you expand on your character concept? Earlier you said that you did not plan on going into melee, but now it sounds like you do want to.
It sounds like you might want to look into Magus.
If I read WHW correctly they loose hexes don't they?
Have you seen one played Bright Sun?
Hmm so if I went pure Witch but still want the "flavor" of martial arts, are there any feats I could pick up that thematically it could be "martial arts"?Could you expand on your character concept? Earlier you said that you did not plan on going into melee, but now it sounds like you do want to.
It sounds like you might want to look into Magus.
Meaning that if an enemy comes at me in melee, I can use my "martial arts" to evade/dodge the attack....not looking to attack with the unarmed attacks as I would then need Weapon Finesse...looking for more a "soft" style of martial arts
I love the Hexes so don't want to go Magus...even though I know an archtype gets it later.
Why not simply use Sohei to qualify for Eldritch Knight? It's not like getting a lot of levels of monk will help you and Monastic Legacy and Hex Strike should help make the melee concept work more.
Witch has d6 HD, poor BAB, and terrible proficiencies. If you want a "martial arts witch" the best you can currentl do is Hexcrafter Magus. Or use gestalt rules, where you advance two classes simultaneously and combine witch with any melee class you want. Except Barbarian...rage does not mix well with casters...
I want to second the Hexcrafter Magus. I would that a dip into monk with the hexcrafter could get the flavor desired without leaving the entire concept behind the power curve.
I would definitely suggest dropping flurry of blows for an archetype since flurry is a full round action and so is spell combat. Hex strike would be an excellent choice since you can then spell combat, spell strike and land a hex on a foe all at the same time.
A master of many forms could be a good choice with Kirin style and Dragon style working well together (I would only take 2 monk levels) -- helping you charge and deal more damage when you hit.
Go Sohei Monk/Witch. Don't go White Haired witch, because your caster level will suffer from this combination, meaning that you're Hair Grappling will suffer. Stick to standard Witch.
They're right. Eldritch Knight is EXACTLY what you're looking for. You'll need something like 5 levels of witch (I'd suggest 6), and then 1 level of Sohei (I suggest you make that 2), then take levels in Eldritch Knight. it's viable.
O_O I didn't even THINK of Eldritch Knight...but yeah. It works. The only bad point is that you'll have to go at least 5 levels of witch first before you can take levels in sohei. Furthermore, you're going to be more of a fighter than any kind of monk, although you'll have Evasion and Light Armor Proficiency and Monk AC bonus. So it should work out in your favor.
I would also suggest dropping flurry of blows...just because Eldritch Knight gets Full BAB anyway.
It's crazy. But it could work.
Can a Witch make a backup copy spellbook if she has Scribe Scroll feat? In otherwords, if my familiar goes SPLAT, can I have backup copies in a spellbook to then reteach my new familiar those spells??
Or will I just have to keep a bundle of many scrolls as backups?
If you're not planning on meleeing, dump the monk and just go witch. If you're planning on meleeing, and want to keep the witch flavor, consider going straight magus, with the Hexcrafter and Staff Magus templates laid overtop of the Magus powers. Then spend your magus wigits on hexes, and dump extra feats on magus stuff.
Or will I just have to keep a bundle of many scrolls as backups?
Bundle of scrolls, unfortunately. There are ways around it, though. If you can get in a coven, teach another witch all your spells and your new familiar can learn them from that witch's familiar. Covens are super useful for witches. Which is kinda neat flavor, IMO.
What is the better hex to take at 1st lvl? Slumber or Evil Eye?
You're going to want to take them both sooner or later anyway, so I'd say slumber. Gives you something to do when your spell pyramid runs out.
Just because Eldritch Knight, multi-classing and thus prestige classes in general were mentioned: Remember that your hexes do not increase in effectiveness or DC unless you take witch levels. So if you, for example, took witch 5/fighter 1/eldritch knight x, all your hexes would remain as strong as for a 5th level witch.
Just so you are not surprised if you go that route :-)
I created my witch & decided to go full witch for 1st lvl instead of Apprentice monk/witch.
Decided I wanted to focus mainly on Hexes - I took Flight & Evil Eye. Already been in alot of close call fights - wish I had taken Slumber instead of Flight for 1st.
Eldritch Knight is too "melee" based for this character - I only want the 1 level in monk for the defense bonus & Snake Style.
1) Except for gaining more Witch levels, is there anyway you can boost up the DC of Hexes??
2) Are you allowed to retrain Hexes when you level for Pathfinder?
if you use 3rd party stuff, feats of multiclassing from super genius games has a feat called Ajuoga that lets a multi class witch/summoner replace their familiar with an eidolon and level it with which levels... only takes a 1 lvl dip and you turn your familiar from a liability into an asset!
Flight is best taken around level 5, as it's around there it really kicks in. Cackle or Misfortune would have been more handy that early (if you're not set on taking the OPness that is Slumber).
1) Higher intelligence is your best bet. Dump every stat increase into Int and aquire more Int with items (or keep up Threefold Aspect and look like an old crone at all times if you want to save gold, as soon as you got access to 3rd/4th level spells - or whatever it is).
Ability focus:[a particular Hex] I could see some GMs allowing.2) Ask your GM. I believe most don't even allow retraining.
On the subject of monk: why Snake Style? It doesn't seem at all handy. It's only Snake Fang which is any attractive in that feat chain. Plus, you're not really increasing those hex DCs by taking monk levels.
I like Snake Style for the ability to get the higher AC when attacked - also uses Immediate actions since the witch doesn't seem to have any immediate actions. Better to just focus on getting Mage Armor up more than Snake Style??
The original reason I took Flight at first was for the Feather Fall effect. My DM uses House Rules for falling where it does CON dmg instead of hp dmg. So suddenly I got paranoid I was going to fall to my death soon. Dead is dead in this campaign. Oh well I guess I am stuck with it since there is no "official" rule on retraining.
Nope not allowed to use any 3rd party books either...just Pathfinder with a chance that Dragon stuff might be allowed on individual basis.
I usually find Deflect Arrows much less useful than I expect it to be. If you know your DM well and know he will use archers often, you can just burn two feats to get it. Casters have plenty of non-essential feat slots.
I took Deflect Arrows at 3rd lvl....now i am 9th....never used the feat.
I recommend you pick something more useful like Extra Hex.
If ur wanting a lil bit of protection, there is a cloth chest piece witches can wear that will net them 4ac. Im of the opionion it stacks with mage armor but its been awhile since ive seen it in the UE or UM book.
If ur wanting a lil bit of protection, there is a cloth chest piece witches can wear that will net them 4ac. Im of the opionion it stacks with mage armor but its been awhile since ive seen it in the UE or UM book.
You may be thinking of the Corset of Dire Witchcraft, which is a very useful witch item but is an armour bonus, and therefore wouldn't stack with Mage Armour.