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So, I know the general question has been asked several times, but I was wondering specifically what can and can't be combined together for a specific character.

Specifically, a level 15 Half-Orc Bloodrager (with Beast Totem via Primalist archetype.

1-Claws x 2 (From one of the beast totem Rage powers)
2-Bite (From the Tusked trait)
3-Gore (From the Helm of the Mammoth Lords)
4-Unarmed Strikes x3 (as iterative attacks from BAB)
4.5-Instead of Unarmed Strikes, a Beaststrike Club.
5-Hooves x2 from Monstrous Extremities

The way I think it works...

a) If using the Beastrike Club, the character would lose one Claw attack;
b) Bite and Gore can both be used (certainly there's no shortage of monsters who can do both at the same time)
c) Improved Unarmed Strike, for a non-monk, has to be a punch and so would also cost a claw attack.

Thanks in advance!


4 people marked this as a favorite.
RJGrady wrote:
Against a high intensity opponent, Mirror Image will last one round.

Against a high intensity opponent, a Crane Wing monk will last one round.


I cannot recommend AVOIDING Legacy of Fire enough. Can't explain why as it causes frothing rage and ban-worty rambling whenever I do.


Conundrum wrote:
So not to shift back to the topic or anything but even though I don't like monks, I thought of making one to help a rogue or ninja get sneak attacks by setting victims up with stunning fist and having the Rogue swoop in after for sneak attack while the enemy is stunned. Viable?

Stunning Fist is a gimmick, not something you build around. I figured out the math yesterday on a side project, and you'll usually be lucky if Stunning Fist works once every five tries on a non-stunning fist focused build.

I'd say it could get up to one in four if you really built around stunning fist (dump Strength, get Weapon Finesse, Cornugon Stun and use weapons for the masterwork/enchantment bonus to cover your to-hit, get your DM to allow Ability Focus: Stunning Fist, etc. But whoever designed Stunning Fist missed the enormous effect having to go through two rolls (to-hit AND saving throw) has on accuracy.

Seriously, I'm starting to think that if fixing flurry is off the table, giving the monk infinite Stunning Fist wouldn't be unbalancing.


I think a (dis)honorable mention should be given to some of Legacy of Fire's achievement feats, namely Flame-Tested Survivor, Graverisen and Talmandor's Lifting, which require you to suck even before you get the feat.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

So - let's say a Monk of the Empty Hand picks up a longsword+2.

He treats it as an improvised weapon - but is it magical? i.e. is it treated as a club +2?

What about if he picks up a greatsword +2? A regular greatsword would be treated as a quarterstaff, but would the greatsword +2 be considered as a double weapon with a +2 enhancement on each end?


Others have already covered what to do with the player that shows up with a game-breaking monstrostity like that 3.x Hulking Hurler that did 49748 damage (plus 4 fire), going "Nyuk nyuk nyuk" all the while. Kick'em to the curb!

For good old fashioned power imbalance, here's a simple truth: system balance is a problem for the designers, not the DM. One of your player wants to play a straight fighter? Give him more loot to compensate, or an extra feat here and there. Sure, it's not "by the book" but who cares? The goal is to have a campaign that works, not to achieve magical perfect balance.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Personnally, I got fed up with players deciding that their real life was more important than everybody else's. So my new game group runs on one simple rule: we figure out a date for the game in advance. You either show up, or you have a real reason to miss it.

"I'm sick/I have a work obligation/my boy/girlfriend is giving birth" are acceptable reasons to miss a game. This is a hobby, not a life sentence.

"I'm tired"? You knew the game was on today, you shouldn't have gone to bed at 3AM yesterday.

"I'd rather do activity X with my other friends"? Tough luck. We set up a date two weeks ago, your other friends should have respected your previous engagements, the same way that we'll pick another date if you have a previous engagement with them.

"My boy/girlfriend has a cold"? Boo-hoo. We are all adults. We can survive a cold without supervision.

It sounds harsh, and I expected backlash when stating that rule, but the response has been universally and enthusiastically positive, ranging from "it's a great idea" to "I wouldn't have joined the game if it wasn't for that rule."

Really, the game is much more enjoyable without manchilds.

EDIT: that sounds harsher than it's intended to be. I didn't mean anything about your gaming group in particular. It's just that that "bailed at 2:15 AM" sounds suspiciously like someone partying like crazy the night before the game. :)


If you're looking for additional improvement ideas, I think this guide could really use a "Recommended for: " Field for each trait.

You already have that for Threatening Defender - and I think it'd be better to have the field instead of using multicolored headers - especially when the header is "Sucks/Awesome" :)

Under that system, Threatening Defender would be Red - but it's recommended for Builds using Crane Style.

You could do the same for Bullied: it's Red, but recommended for Snake / Panther Style users.


I've looked in detail at the archetypes for most of the martial classes, for the wizard, for the bard and for the monk.

The monk is the only class with archetypes that are a clear power boost. Qinggong is downright pure improvement since you pick and chose what you want, but they're mostly all better than the base monk (and that was before Flurry of Blow got nerfed.) But there are quite a few archetypes that are just better IMO - probably because the monk has so many weak/useless class features that can be swapped for something better. And now that Flurry of Blow has been crippled, archetypes that drop it are probably even better.

The other classes I've looked at had archetypes that were downright weaker than the base class even for creating exactly the character described in the archetypes. Of course, most of those weird concepts are weaker than an optimized character to start with, but even if you don't care for having The Very Best XXX Possible (tm), there are quite a few archetypes that you'd be downright dumb for using. In other words, some archetypes are trap options.

In the good-case situation, the archetypes are on par with the base class if you create the exact concept described in the archetype as far as power go - but has soon as you divert slightly, you're better off with the base class.

The best-case for non-monks archetypes are when some class abilities wouldn't work really well for a specific campaign, and can be replaced with useful abilities. For instance,the Cavalier can get some archetypes that reduce or remove the need for a mount if that specific feature would be a problem.


Guardianknight wrote:
Most likely, this feat chain was aimed toward Tieflings and Drow who naturally can use Darkness as a spell like ability. Most notably, Drow get both that and Faerie Fire. Look at the Dragon Empires Primer if you get a chance. I think there were a few Stunning Fist related feats in there if I'm not mistaken.

Good point, I didn't think of those non-standard races. The feat chain makes a lot more sense that way.

That said, I'm more interested in knowing if there's a way to give a single spell to a generic character. But it's more idle curiosity than anything else, really :)


So, in looking for ways to improve on my Stunning Fist DC, I've stumbled upon the Nightmare Striker feat.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/nightmare-striker-combat

Now, this is a completely atrocious way of boosting the Stunning Fist DC (a three-feat investment? Come on!) But more to the point... as far as I can tell, the only build that can benefit from this a monk-druid, or a druid who got Stunning Fist somehow, or I guess a rogue with the appropriate Rogue talent and feats (admittedly possible, but...)

I mean, this feat chain is aimed at absurdly specific builds. Unless I'm missing something, which is definitely possible.

So, is there a way for someone to either add a spell to their class spell list, or get a one-spell spellcasting ability that I missed?


I didn't pick up the Slumber feat, mostly because at the time I created my character there were several people mentionning that it was way overpowered.

If you do pick Slumber, consider being an Elf - there's an alternate race (or is it racial? Anyways, one that is in the elf description, not the trait list) trait that gives a bonus to sleep effect DCs. And the +2 to int and dex works well with the witch-monk combo.

Evil Eye works nicely enough (although you really need Cackle to make it worth it.)


I'm actually playing a Monk1/Witch5.

We've had a single adventure so far, but my character was actually really effective for what she was intended for. Which is - get really good defenses up via AC/Saves/Defensive Style Feats (Master of Many Styles is a must), and draw attacks away from the rest of the party, while casting/hexing baddies. Oh, and counterattacking with Snake Style, but a combination of low-rolling and getting stuck against high-AC enemies cramped my style as far as that went.

Admittedly, it's only working so well because we needed a tank build, and because I managed to get a way to get a way to get Shield on myself (in my case, a custom magic item, but we could have done it by way of Alchemist Infusions, or if you've got the money to spend that spell-storing Ioun stone should work, or in a real pinch just get that UMD score to 10 somehow and get yourself a wand, or just spend more money on AC boosters, or...)

On the other hand, my overall build could be even better. I should have gone with Crane Wing as my bonus style feat, instead of Snake Fang, for starters. I thought that I'd be able to land

Offensively, though - I've basically sacrificed a spellcaster level (and maybe a couple of points of save DCs) to gain really good defenses. I also sacrificed any sort of relevant melee ability, too. That said, I think that the Hexes can compensate for that (Slumber is especially awesome, and if you make your character an Elf you should be able to get a fairly insane DC on that save.)


Shar Tahl wrote:
He has no ki pool at level 1. There are no ki pool abilities to modify. Until you have an ability that gives you a ki pool, its a no-go. On a side note, why is a level 1 character getting a 16000 gold item?

It's a monk1/whateverX - i.e. it could be a level 10 character or whatever.

My first guess was that the monk had no Ki Pool either - but then, why is there a trait that adds to ki pools?

(Personnally, it's no dealbreaker either way - the amulet in question isn't amazing and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want one at that price. Figuring out that answer was a pet project that turned into an obsession - at this point I'm more interested in finding out a solid answer than in getting an amulet for said character.)


So, after digging for answers to my own question, I'm rapidly becoming more confused.

(Probably should mention that I'm actually a lawyer, so spotting minor issues is an irritating habit of mine.)

Basically, at this point, the whole Ki Pool class feature is confusing me. The way I see it:

1-The Ninja gets a Ki Pool at level 2;
2-The Drunken Master gets an ability (Drunken Ki) that interacts with Ki Pool but isn't Ki Pool at level 3.
3-The Ki Mystic gets his Ki Pool at level 3
4-The regular monk gets his Ki Pool at level 4.
a
So far, so good.

BUT!

A monk can start to add to his Ki Pool at level 1.

There's the alternate favored class bonus which adds fractions of Ki points to the ki pool. Still, there won't be an actual bonus until level 4, so I guess we can let that slip.

But there's also the Honored Fist of the Society Trait, which flat-out adds Ki to the Ki Pool at level-1.

At this point, I'm starting to view the Ki Pool ability as something that the monk gains at level-1, but can't be used before level 4.

In fact, from a cursory reading, the wording of the class abilities part of a class description is "all the following are class abilities of the XXXX" which also implies that you have them all.

Finally, if you take a look at something like the Monk's AC Bonus class ability, it's clear that you can have a class ability that has effects that "turn on" at later levels - but you still have the ability.

Or am I reading way too much into this?


blackbloodtroll wrote:

I am trying to recall the post APG post in which SKR restated that there are no "unarmed strike" weapons, maybe it was James. I am frustrated by the fact that this true, especially when things like the emei piercer pop up in UC.

I feel the pain too, but I am sorry, it's true.

That would be this post, then?

http://paizo.com/store/games/roleplayingGames/p/pathfinderRPG/paizo/pathfin derCompanion/v5748btpy8dmf/discuss&page=12#550

Thanks for the help in tracking down the info.


Richard Leonhart wrote:
for the moment there is no weapon you can enhance that uses your unarmed damage, you're stuck with the amulet of mighty fists.

Yeah, I realize that. But reading the gauntlet's description, the attack is still an unarmed attack (it just doesn't do the monk's unarmed damage, as written it just replaces the unarmed damage with that 1d3 roll while still remaining an unarmed attack.


Another quick question:

The gauntlet's description (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/weapon-descriptions/gaun tlet) says that "A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack"

Could a monk use enchanted gauntlets to give himself an enhancement bonus to unarmed strikes instead of an Amulet of Mighty Fists? Obviously, it would do 1d3 damage (plus whatever damage enhancements) and not the monk's unarmed strike damage.

EDIT: that would be for the purpose of having an enhanced to-hit chance when, say, using Snake Fang, and/or when delivering Stunning Fists attempts without Cornugon Strike or whatever it's called.


I was wondering if a Monk1 (who hasn't sacrificed Ki pool through archetypes, obviously) can benefit for a Necklace of Ki Serenity?

I mean, technically the monk1 doesn't have the Ki Pool class ability, right?

(Yeah, I'm aware that an Amulet of Natural Armor/Mighty Fists is probably a better use of the neck slot anyways.)


Weables wrote:
I hope that helps explain

Yeah, it does. Thanks.

Back to the drawing board I guess... :)


Three extra notes:

1-Flavor-wise, I do need some monkish ability for my concept to work for me personnally. It's not optimal, but I really need some martial-art crunch to go with the story to have fun. Not opposed to switching out the monk levels for something else that gives me that flavor, though.

2-Also, another player's going for the battlefield control role, and I don't want to step on his toes. Not a huge argument against going full-caster, but still - Black Tentacles was definitely not what I was envisionning for my character.

3-We're not going to see level 20. It's unlikely we'll see level 14. This will be a short, 7-10 adventures campaign.

That said, I'm taking all of this under advisement. I'm especially worried about Weables' comment on my CMD: what would be a good score, if this one is terrible?

In fact, what are good scores for AC, saves and so on at level 6-7?

Other than that... a few clarifications on the role I envision. I'm planning on using my hexes and spells for buffs and save-or-suck effects. I'm also going to pack a bow (can't really use a crossbow - I want my Move Actions for Cackle), and hopefully never need to fight in melee.

Oh - one last note. My Wisdom score is pretty much irrelevant with that build (well, it gives me -2 to Sense Motive for Snake Style, and it hurts my Will save.) The Sohei doesn't get the Wisdom bonus to AC, and I don't have Stunning Fist either.


First - this is my first post here, so I guess I should start by saying "Hi."

I'm going to be playing in a Pathfinder campaign fairly soon. We've created characters, but while I've DMed D&D in its various forms for many, many years, this is one of my first 3.x PC, and my second Pathfinder PC.

I've created a Monk1-Witch5 character. The plan is to take a second level of monk at level 7 then continue on strictly as a witch.

The character concept is basically a mix of the witch and fallen master archetypes from wuxia films. I'm not setting out to play a villain, however, I'd like to see how I can take that archetype and see where it takes me.

My concern is that the first Pathfinder character I created ended up being fairly inefficient due to spreading myself too thin.

So I'd like to run my current character with expert Pathfinder players to see if it's tolerably good. I don't necessarily want to outshine everyone - but I'd like to at least avoid my character being a liability. I don't need perfect optimization, but I do need to know how survivable/efficient my character will turn out to be.

My basic idea is to be a caster who the party won't have to worry about protecting. My spells and hexes should normally be my main contribution. I'm a fairly standard witch build, although my spells do slant a bit toward inflicting the Shaken condition, as one of our other PCs rely on it for some neat tricks. Anyways - spell selection is easy to fix in-game if I find out my picks are too sub-optimal.

I've taken the Evil Eye, Cackle, Fortune, Misfortune, and Healing Hexes (using some feats on Extra Hexes - we also get to use one Flaw). I'Ve also taken that trait that gives +2 to caster level. All in all, the witch levels don't worry me that much.

The monk levels, however... I've taken the Sohei and Master of Many Styles archetype. I also have that feat that reduces arcane spell failure by 10%, so I can use a mithral chain shirt and mithral buckler without issues.

My first real question is which Styles to use. My first monk level is level 3, so I picked Snake Style with my regular feat and Dragon Style with my monk bonus feat. I should probably take the monk level at 1 to pick up an extra HP there, but no matter.

At level 7, I intend to pick up Kirin Style as my regular feat and Kirin Strike as my monk bonus feat. Would that be legal?

I have a +11 to Sense Motive for Snake Style, and already +12 to +15 to the relevant knowledge skills for the Kirin path.

Also - I'm mostly focused on making sure my defenses are good enough - and, ideally, that I have one tolerable physical option. Stat block below for comments:

Female Elf Monk (Master of Many Styles, Sohei) 1 Witch 5
LN Medium Humanoid (Elf)
Init +7; Senses Low-Light Vision; Perception +11
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 21, touch 14, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +2 shield, +4 Dex)
hp 41 (1d8+5d6+6)
Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +6
Immune sleep; Resist Elven Immunities
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Melee Unarmed Strike +2 (1d6/20/x2)
Ranged Crossbow, Light +4 (1d8/19-20/x2) (Hmm... shouldn't that be +6, Hero Lab?)
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 20/22, Wis 7, Cha 7
Base Atk +2; CMB +2; CMD 16

Anyway, thank you for your help!