TWF vs Falcata


Advice


I have 24 hours to decide, and I really can't do the maths.

I'm playing a bard with a smattering of Fighter.

I'm Half Elf so I get Exotic for free.

What's better?

Double Sword + TWF or Falcata/ECB +Power Attack + Furious Focus.

I get Arcane Strike for free as an Arcane Duellist, and I'm going straight bard until 10th.

TWF would make both attacks @ -2 for a + 1d8+8/1d8+6 (Inspire + Arcane @ 8th as an example)

Falcata would give me 1d8+15/1d8+15 (-2)

clearly I've just answered my own question and PA/FF is superior? Especially as I'm going to be hasted too!

/Discuss please


IMO, TWF is good for Rangers, Fighters, and Combat Rogues (only when Imp. Two-Weapon Feinting or Flanking with someone). Aside from those classes, it's too feat-heavy unless you plan to dedicate almost all your feats towards making it worthwhile.

So I'd go with the PA/FF.


Oh Bard! Thought you said Fighter.

Two handed fighting for sure. I would go Falchion though. Free action to take your hand off the cast. Work Improved Critical in there?

Unless you want a shield of course.


Falcata is great. That 19-20/x3 critical is really gonna be awesome when you've got inspire courage, good hope, arcane strike, etc. all adding critical friendly damage bonuses.

Liberty's Edge

I might also suggest a fouchard as another alternative. Reach is a good quality, especially for casters and those who may not have the best AC. Work in combat reflexes for some additional pain.


TWF is only good for Fighters/ Cavaliers/Paladins/Rogues/Rangers.

On a bard Falcata or Fauchard all the way.


Bard adds about as much in static damage bonuses as fighter (inspire courage maxes at +4 like weapon training and Arcane Strike maxes at +4 for non-20th level characters just like the focus/specialization tree)

I'd try double sword. Be different.


Iced2k wrote:
Double Sword + TWF or Falcata/ECB +Power Attack + Furious Focus.

Furious Focus only applies to two-handed weapons. If you are going two-handed, the falchion or elven curve-blade are better weapons. The Falcata's x3 critical multiplier is nice, but the greater threat range is worth more.


Dabbler wrote:
Iced2k wrote:
Double Sword + TWF or Falcata/ECB +Power Attack + Furious Focus.
Furious Focus only applies to two-handed weapons. If you are going two-handed, the falchion or elven curve-blade are better weapons. The Falcata's x3 critical multiplier is nice, but the greater threat range is worth more.

Depends on your static bonuses. If your str modifier is +6 or higher, falcata pulls ahead when used 2hd because of the static bonuses being multiplied on a crit. Bard likely won't have amazing str but will replace those static bonuses with inspire courage which I assume will always be up. Curve blade is better than falchion.

With falcata you get the freedom to use 1hd or 2hd as needed, as well.


Dabbler wrote:
Iced2k wrote:
Double Sword + TWF or Falcata/ECB +Power Attack + Furious Focus.
Furious Focus only applies to two-handed weapons. If you are going two-handed, the falchion or elven curve-blade are better weapons. The Falcata's x3 critical multiplier is nice, but the greater threat range is worth more.

Rough math (someone correct me if I've messed this up), assuming you always confirm. (I'm also assuming that the Falcata is being wielded 2-handed, so Strength bonuses, Power Attack, etc. are all identical)

18-20/x2 means that 15% of the time you do +100% damage: .15*1.0 = .15 or +15% damage (assuming 100% to confirm.)
19-20/x3 means that 10% of the time you do +200% damage: .1*2.0 = .20 or +20% damage (assuming 100% to confirm.)

The Elven Curve Blade and the Falchion do do slightly more base damage than the Falcata, but the Falcata's critical is definitely better. As your static damage bonuses increase the Falcata will pull ahead. Conversely, at low levels, when you don't have that many damage bonuses, the Greatsword and Earthbreaker are better than the high crit weapons.


Where you win with 18-20 x2 is critical focus->w/e feat builds. (or other effects that proc on crits but are not affected by the multiplier, like the Duelist capstone)

Falcata is hands down the best weapon otherwise.
It's equivalent to a "20 x5" weapon (which is why many people call it OP)
and the x3 crit pays off big time once you start stacking on elemental burst enchantments with keen or Imp Crit.

There are ways to do it wrong(suboptimally), but meh.

Since you're getting the EWP for free, I'm a fan of both ECB and falcata, just pick the one you like best.
Or, if you're really adventurous, plan on using a LARGE falcata. If I still had my bookmarks I'd slap down the DPR thread I saw about it.

Liberty's Edge

TWF is not feat-heavy:

Feats that are cool with it? Lots.
Feats that are required for it? None.

(But I do not recommend TWF unless you're a class which features automatically escalating damage from a situation class-feature, i.e., rogue or cavalier. The best "TWF" is, of course, a monk -- who gets it all free without any fussing around.)


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You're a Bard - go with a Didgeridoo as an exotic weapon !


Mike Schneider wrote:

TWF is not feat-heavy:

Feats that are cool with it? Lots.
Feats that are required for it? None.

(But I do not recommend TWF unless you're a class which features automatically escalating damage from a situation class-feature, i.e., rogue or cavalier. The best "TWF" is, of course, a monk -- who gets it all free without any fussing around.)

Actually there is one feat that's required for twf-it's called two weapon fighting.

To your point about monks, not only do they get it for free, but they also get a better version of it for free.


Where does it say that half-elf automatically gets exotic weapon proficincy? I did read it somewhere, but hero lab never gave me that option.


You don't need the Two Weapon Fighting feat in order to TWF. It is just a bad idea to not take it. That is what Mike was saying.


vonklinen wrote:
Where does it say that half-elf automatically gets exotic weapon proficincy? I did read it somewhere, but hero lab never gave me that option.

It's an alternate race feature from the Advanced Player's Guide (I think), replacing their free Skill Focus feat. It can technically be used to get proficiency with a martial weapon instead, if you'd rather have that and your class doesn't give it.

Liberty's Edge

Beebs wrote:
Falcata is great. That 19-20/x3 critical is really gonna be awesome when you've got inspire courage, good hope, arcane strike, etc. all adding critical friendly damage bonuses.

And most of the time it's completely wasted; i.e., you need 35pts to kill the monster and dish out 87. (This is also my anti-Power Attack rant for the day: fighters getting chewed on because they miss their iteratives and leave the critter standing, other PCs whittle it down, then he K.O.s it with unnecessary massive overkill, then dances a jig and makes like he did all the work instead of having a stroke-of-luck connect+crit cancel out his earlier whiffs.

It's fun to watch two-handed DPR kings try to play modules in mixed-party settings without a friendly GM hand-holding them -- they're usually the first character face-planted because they whiff a lot and their AC sucks, and the player running them -- while good at plugging numbers into DPR algorithms -- often isn't bright enough to withdraw when he's 1-for-2 and the monster's 3-for-4 and things are gettin' hairy. /rant)

Quote:
With falcata you get the freedom to use 1hd or 2hd as needed, as well.

There are a not inconsiderable number of GMs who'll take one look at a picture of a falcata and restrict its use to one hand.

Caveat emptor.


Power attack works barring bad dice rolls, but with bad dice rolls you probably would have missed anyway.


Quote:
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Quote:
With falcata you get the freedom to use 1hd or 2hd as needed, as well.

There are a not inconsiderable number of GMs who'll take one look at a picture of a falcata and restrict its use to one hand.

Caveat emptor.

Well that would be a houserule but I don't see the reason for it.


If you can use a rapier two handed you can certainly use a falcata.

That said, the falcata may pull ahead in numbers with massive bonus, but even then I think a falchion is better for two reasons:
a Overkills. As said when you crit x3 there are significant chances to waste damage.
b Critical feats. At high level crits are important not for their damage but for the possibility of leaving your opponents blinded, stunned or whatever. A keen falchion will have 10% more chances to do that when compared to a keen falcata. I like that better than a few more points of damage over my PC's career.


PF doesn't have a classification for weapons that aren't light enough to easily be used in your offhand but aren't built such that you could hit people harder by using both hands with them. (Nor does it have a category for weapons that are easy to use off-handed but that can be usefully swung with two hands). That means that some weapons that historically were not normally used with two hands end up in the one-handed weapon category, where they're treated as versatile. Whenever it comes up, I just assume the weapon is one where it's constructed to make that a possibility. There are dozens of weapons more out-there than a falcata with a grip that supports the use of two hands. (It's as heavy as a longsword, so that's no issue.)


Rapiers don't get extra damage when 2handed. It's in their text block, eh?

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