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Back in 3.0 dnd they had a bow that every time you pulled the string it activated the true strike. think the cost was 5 or 6k.
We re-made it into a bow and wand combo it has 50 changes and you have to replace a wand that attached to it every time it ran out lol.
Don't even get me started on my cheap ways to make powerful magic items lol.
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the 90'000 gold for the at will quickened command word version isn't as bad as you think.
the +20 enhancement to a weapon voodoo mike suggested would only be worth 800K if it applied to all your attacks and affected damage.
this is not a proper weapon enhancement, in fact, the value drops with the more attacks you make. the 60th level caster who make this weapon, if they were a wizard would be making 6 attacks a round. a 60th level martial would be making 12 attacks a round. this is just from base attack bonus. this doesn't factor dual wielding, rapid shot, haste, or attacks of oppurtunity.
as ashiel said, combat manuevers can be easily countered. and at 17th level (where this is affordable) the 90,000 gold pieces are wasted because combat manuevers are worthless by that time. and if you are a properly built martial. you are already dropping foes in one or two rounds on your own by then without this ring anyway.
a lot of monsters have natural weapons, which makes grapple, disarm, and steal a whole let less effective. and fliers (really frequent) cannot truly be tripped and easily stay out of grapple range. thier larger size, can go above the limit for categories before you can no longer grapple, trip, bull rush, reposition, or overrun them. so your CMB becomes useless pretty easily. most creatures you face by the time you can reasonably afford this are huge or larger. outside the cap for most PC races.
Pretty much everything Akane has said here.
I have a cheap easy way. Take the leadership feat to get a companion to use a wand of true strike on you (750gp). With a wand you can cast it on another person.
have fun and good day
Mike
Except for the fact you can't.
========================================================================
Wizard: "So, what do you think? I named him Fido."
Fighter: "Sweet stage-diving christ! Is that the terrasque!!?"
Wizard: "No, he's a terrasque, and his name is Fido."
Fighter: "B-but h-how...!?"
Wizard: "I'm a wizard, remember? Anyway, I've asked Fido to be your new mount, and to carry our luggage. Do you mind riding on Fido?"
Fighter: "Err...but...uhhh...actually, yeah, that's freakin' awesome!"
Wizard: "Cool, I thought you'd like it. Fortunately, it's nothing quite as absurd as being able to strike with exceptional accuracy once every six seconds while preventing you from stomping all over our enemies with your fancy footwork or anything crazy like that."
Fighter: "Well that does sound cool, but I rarely miss my enemies anyway. So, how do you start him up?"
Wizard: "Fido, sit. Now Fido, you do exactly what my friend here tells you to do, unless I say otherwise, ok?"
Fido: "Mmmhrmmm... *deep bellowing snarl*
Wizard: "Good Fido."
Fighter: "Man the cavaliers are going to be so jealous!"
Wizard: "I insta-created a special harness so you can ride on his head. It has seatbelts, for when he goes airborn..."
Fighter: "Keep talkin'. I'm diggin' this."
Back in 3.0 dnd they had a bow that every time you pulled the string it activated the true strike. think the cost was 5 or 6k.
We re-made it into a bow and wand combo it has 50 changes and you have to replace a wand that attached to it every time it ran out lol.
Don't even get me started on my cheap ways to make powerful magic items lol.
That bow was a standard action to use the true strike and halflings only, which meant one shot every other round...if you're using the one from Sword and Fist.
Nice, but 1 at/2 rounds is never going to be broken.
==Aelryinth
I have a cheap easy way. Take the leadership feat to get a companion to use a wand of true strike on you (750gp). With a wand you can cast it on another person.
have fun and good day
Mike
You can? Really?
You can? Really?I have a cheap easy way. Take the leadership feat to get a companion to use a wand of true strike on you (750gp). With a wand you can cast it on another person.
have fun and good day
Mike
No.
No.You can? Really?I have a cheap easy way. Take the leadership feat to get a companion to use a wand of true strike on you (750gp). With a wand you can cast it on another person.
have fun and good day
Mike
Well, that's what I thought, but I am willing to hear Mike's explanation of how he thinks you can.
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Don't even get me started on my cheap ways to make powerful magic items lol.
Please. I'd love to see examples of cheap ways to make powerful items which follow the existing guidelines. There is absolutely no rule support for activating a wand by attaching it to a bow (for example). There isn't even anything similar you can point to. Therefore, its price and how it works are entirely up to the GM. If he wants to give it to you for 5cp worth of the equivalent of duct tape, or make an item which can do that the goal of your epic 25-level quest, both are entirely valid in your own game, and have no bearing on what anyone else might do. There's a forum on these boards for that, and this isn't it. It's the same as saying "My GM lets me lock or unlock any lock, disable any trap, and take control of constructs by giving them the Fonzie bump." I have no argument with that, and if your game is fun with that ability, I say "Go for it!", but it's entirely irrelevant to the rest of us.
Just as a thought experiment, how much would a spell-storing weapon which automatically refilled itself from an attached wand cost? It'd be at least a +2 weapon enchant, since Spell Storing itself is a +1. And it does cost gold per use. On the other hand, it's a huge boost in action economy - possibly on par with dancing (which is a +4), or even better if it activates on every swing, not just the first one to connect each round. There's no guidelines for assigning +equivalent prices...
Actually, there is precedent for the wand to a bow...the Wand Chamber you can put onto a sword or something.
:P
==Aelryinth
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Here's a reasonably balanced ring of true strike... 750gp
You can activate it as a standard action that requires a DC20 Use Magic Device check (unless you are a caster who has true strike on their spell list, in which case you can forgo the UMD check). If you have successfully activated this ring in the past, you gain a +2 bonus on your check. This ring functions 50 times before becoming inert.
Yeah... +20 to every single attack you make, ever, anytime, isn't broken at all. /sarcasm
And what's this about 60th level characters? Game doesn't go that high in the rules... By 60th level you are basically making things up as you go. But as a yardstick to measure by, 3.5e epic levels didn't grant any more than 4 attacks per round from BAB alone.
Y'know, OP posted about a ring with 5 uses/day. Not an always on effect.
In my game I would never allow the players to get a hold of a Ring of True Strike (constant); however that being said, charges per day don't bother me. If one of my players wants to use a standard action so that one attack on the next round gets a +20 to hit, alright. If it becomes a problem I add to the number of monsters they fight in each combat. Items like this are easy to balance if you look at the big picture... I don't see much damage something like this could cause.
Wellllll, +20 to hit on command is a substantial bonus for nova techniques for mages...
==Aelryinth
Here's a reasonably balanced ring of true strike... 750gp
You can activate it as a standard action that requires a DC20 Use Magic Device check (unless you are a caster who has true strike on their spell list, in which case you can forgo the UMD check). If you have successfully activated this ring in the past, you gain a +2 bonus on your check. This ring functions 50 times before becoming inert.
Great item. I think the +2 only works for repeat attempts at using a device "blindly". Otherwise the only problem with this ring is it uses up an item slot when you could do the same thing without dedicating an item slot. ,-)
In my game I would never allow the players to get a hold of a Ring of True Strike (constant); however that being said, charges per day don't bother me. If one of my players wants to use a standard action so that one attack on the next round gets a +20 to hit, alright. If it becomes a problem I add to the number of monsters they fight in each combat. Items like this are easy to balance if you look at the big picture... I don't see much damage something like this could cause.
You can't make a constant ring of true strike because of the way its duration works. You can't make a constant fireball either, for much the same reason. What good would a continuous item of true strike be when the effect ends on your next attack? The best you can hope for is for it to be able to cast it before your next attack.
There are 2 ways to do that. A) you burn a standard action activating a regular true-strike, resulting in true strike every other turn at best, for 1 attack, or B) you burn a swift action to activate true-strike before you attack, resulting in a far more expensive effect you can use once per round before an attack.
The difference between the two is one is about 1,800 gp. The other is about 90,000 gp. Huge difference. Neither are particularly amazing for what they do and when they do it. The most impressive thing you can use 'em for is combat maneuvers, which have their own laundry list of problems. :\
Here's a reasonably balanced ring of true strike... 750gp
You can activate it as a standard action that requires a DC20 Use Magic Device check (unless you are a caster who has true strike on their spell list, in which case you can forgo the UMD check). If you have successfully activated this ring in the past, you gain a +2 bonus on your check. This ring functions 50 times before becoming inert.
A ring does not require a UMD check. That is the nice thing about them, they can be used by anyone. They also take up a item location slot so you have to have them on in order to use them. You can very easily make it only have 50 charges to it but by giving it a body slot requirement you turn it into a different type of item. (At work atm so no book to reference, cant remember the exact term not spell completion item but something else).
A ring does not require a UMD check. That is the nice thing about them, they can be used by anyone. They also take up a item location slot so you have to have them on in order to use them. You can very easily make it only have 50 charges to it but by giving it a body slot requirement you turn it into a different type of item. (At work atm so no book to reference, cant remember the exact term not spell completion item but something else).Here's a reasonably balanced ring of true strike... 750gp
You can activate it as a standard action that requires a DC20 Use Magic Device check (unless you are a caster who has true strike on their spell list, in which case you can forgo the UMD check). If you have successfully activated this ring in the past, you gain a +2 bonus on your check. This ring functions 50 times before becoming inert.
There is a price break written into the item creation rules for requiring (x) skill to be used to activate a magic item. Requiring UMD is a little off, since it's JOB is activating magic items. But it's a legitimate thing, not just a silly.
I think you missed the joke. He's ironically describing a Wand of True Strike.A ring does not require a UMD check. That is the nice thing about them, they can be used by anyone. They also take up a item location slot so you have to have them on in order to use them. You can very easily make it only have 50 charges to it but by giving it a body slot requirement you turn it into a different type of item. (At work atm so no book to reference, cant remember the exact term not spell completion item but something else).Here's a reasonably balanced ring of true strike... 750gp
You can activate it as a standard action that requires a DC20 Use Magic Device check (unless you are a caster who has true strike on their spell list, in which case you can forgo the UMD check). If you have successfully activated this ring in the past, you gain a +2 bonus on your check. This ring functions 50 times before becoming inert.
This. And I think it's fairly priced too. You may be taking up an item slot, but you're freeing up a hand for a shield, off-hand weapon or even holding your weapon with two hands. Also, does not need to be drawn or put away.
A ring of minor spell storing. 18K. Allows 3 uses. Of course, it is a standard action to activate and you have to find a wizard to recharge it.
Regular spell storing costs 50K and allows one quicked true strike or 5 regular true strikes.
For only 200K you get a ring of major true strike with 2 uses of quickened true strike!
Just saying, one feat will get you true strike 3/day as a spell-like ability.
Which feat is that?
Demonic Obedience. Choose Shax The Blood Marquis as your patron.Just saying, one feat will get you true strike 3/day as a spell-like ability.Which feat is that?
Cool thanks. Does the caster level grow with your character level?
blackblood.... if I'm reading that feat correctly, not only do you have to worship a demon lord (which sort of restricts your alignment and class options, I would think) but you don't gain your first "boon" until level 12.
I don't think that's fairly represented by saying "one feat will get you true strike 3/day as a spell-like ability".
Just sayin...
It's true, but still earlier than anyone can afford with these crazy examples of items.
Well, some of the examples are available at a pretty low level. A wand of true strike is only 750g, as has been pointed out... But I get your point.
A magus could take Minor Spell Expertise at 11th level, then Quicken Spell-Like Ability at 13th level, and get to use True Strike as a swift action twice a day.
Or the Wand Wielder magus arcana at 3rd level, and save up for a (some) truestrike wands. That alone makes a 3 level dip into magus really valueable for martial characters.
EDIT:
What about a moment of prescience item?
Make the item in question intelligent doesn't cost much have an enchanter give it a true neutral alignment low ability scores and the ability to cast true strike 3/day for all for less then 2,000.
The item uses it's own action to cast the spell so it is a non action to the character.
I love making fun intelligent items for players and npc's. It does a lot to allow non-caster parties shore up weak areas.
Most. Fun. EVER:
Made an intelligent Portable Hole, neutral/evil, with the Purpose: Slay All. The PC who found it was a Rogue/Assassin who happened to have a Necklace of Adaptation. The PH was used to luring people inside itself and distracting them with conversation and it's horde of treasure until hypoxia got 'em... it was very impressed that it couldn't suffocate this guy; it was the start of a Beautiful Friendship.
Hmm interesting, I have made a similar item before in my game in the past, but it was only able to be used 1x per day.
Ring of True Strike
Once per day as a swift action you are able to cast the spell true strike.Quickend True Strike lv5 spell x 5 x 2000 = 50,000 gp. It is only usable once per day so divide that cost by 5 and it = 10,000 gp.
While you think about it the ring can come in VERY handy when you REALLY need to make sure an attack hits. But it is 10k gold for a once per day spell. Useful yes but worth the price when there is so much other gear you can get for 10k that will help your characters all the time? I think it would only be useful if you had the gold to spare and didn't need anything else in that price range.
your caster level is 9 not 5 so its 5x9x2000 = 90'000 /5 = 18'000 for 1/day, 36k for 2/day etc
perfect for performing combat manuver against stupidly high CMD's with the right weapon
I have a player who wants this, and that's exactly what it's going to be: 18,000gp per use per day, with no option of when it is or isn't used; the first attack every round, every day will be at +20 to hit until the uses are used up. I figure they'll go for the full 11 uses per day available to a non-epic magic item. This will make the already viciously nasty fighter even nastier, but it's not really the end of the world:
a. It doesn't affect iterative attacks, only the first attack.
b. There's no option for which attacks it applies to, which means you might burn up its uses in an early combat and not have them later when you really need them.
I'll probably make it a requirement that it has to be worn for some period of time before it is active, to avoid the issue of the ring (or whatever) only being put on right before an important battle.
@Ashiel: you keep saying it can't be made because of its duration, but in reality the duration is 1 round or less. Seems pretty straightforward to me.
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Now, if someone wanted one that was usable more than once per round, we're into territory not available via standard Pathfinder rules, and we have to look to all we've got: the ELH feats and magic creation rules.
More than one Quickened spell per round means we're Multispell territory here, and looking at a minimum caster level of 21 (for the feat) and a minimum cost of 84,000gp (for 2/day).
5 x 21 x 2000 = 210,000gp * 2/5 = 84,000gp
Note that making less than 2 uses/day makes no sense in this case; it's the same as the 18,000gp version. Also note that additional uses/day requires additional access to the Multispell feat, so you have to look at when a wizard gets access to epic feats: at levels 21, 24, 27, etc. by HD and at levels 23, 26, 29 by class, so it would take a level 23 caster for 3/day, pushing the price to 138,000gp, and you can squeeze in 4/day with a 24th-level caster at a hefty 192,000gp. Go for more, and you break the 200,000gp barrier and must multiply the item cost by 10, so a 5/day item would require a level 26 caster and would cost 2.6 million gp.
So for something that takes a level 24 caster to make and costs 192,000gp, it's not exactly going to ruin a campaign to get 4 true strikes per day, even in the same round, so long as there's limited control.
I find the 20th-level fighter capstone ability to automatically confirm all critical hits to be more dangerous, especially with the quantity of truly nasty critical feats out there, many of which have no save vs. some heinous effects.
As an aside, I regret that Paizo removed the 200,000gp cap on normal magic items; I think it was a good thing.
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The first level spell is not use-activated, on all the time. It's a standard action to gain +20 to hit and ignore miss chance on the next attack only (the next round, barring AoO, etc).
Compare the effect with existing items, or effects. The option for an "always on bonus to attack" already has a pricing option, and that's what he used.
This approach is defined in the guidelines (yes, guidelines, not rules) for DM adjudication of custom magic items.
Regardless, I wouldn't allow +20 to anything, especially attacks, and especially always-on. Command word, fine, since you are getting exactly what the spell normally gets you.
Basically my thoughts. As a constant effect, of course I wouldn't allow it. Activate True Strike as a standard action? No problem. The price I would have to research, but it's not broken.
Ring of Spell Storing
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/rings.html
very cheap to recharge
Why not just compare prices with another item which can do the same thing; in this cast a ring of spell storing (5 lvls of spells) and 5 1st lvl pearls of power given to a mage with True Strike.
Cost: Ring of Spell Storing = 50,000gp, 5x 1st lvl pearl of power = 2,500gp
for a total cost of 52,500gp
Now, note that this can only be activated as a standard action, but it seems to be the closest analogue.
Now, if you were willing to forego the minimum standard action activation cost of the Ring of Spell storing for the that of a quickened Truestrike, you could get a single use of Truestrike as a swift action once per round using the following cost equivlent:
Cost: Ring of Spell Storing = 50,000gp, 5th lvl Pearl of Power = 18,000gp
for a total cost of 68,000gp
This gives one charge of Truestrike as a swift action.
If you repeat this for 2 charges in a Major Ring of Spell Storing the price doubles as you now have to pay for the advanced ring (double the cost by comparison) and a second 5th lvl Pearl of Power.
It therefore stands to rreason that (assuming you don't negate miss chance as this would alter the effects futher and IMO require an upward adjustment of pricing) each charge usable as a swift action would cost 68,000gp.
Does this seem a reasonable way to approach the issue?
Hmm interesting, I have made a similar item before in my game in the past, but it was only able to be used 1x per day.
Ring of True Strike
Once per day as a swift action you are able to cast the spell true strike.Quickend True Strike lv5 spell x 5 x 2000 = 50,000 gp. It is only usable once per day so divide that cost by 5 and it = 10,000 gp.
While you think about it the ring can come in VERY handy when you REALLY need to make sure an attack hits. But it is 10k gold for a once per day spell. Useful yes but worth the price when there is so much other gear you can get for 10k that will help your characters all the time? I think it would only be useful if you had the gold to spare and didn't need anything else in that price range.
your caster level is 9 not 5 so its 5x9x2000 = 90'000 /5 = 18'000 for 1/day, 36k for 2/day etc
perfect for performing combat manuver against stupidly high CMD's with the right weapon
Oh dam you are right lol, I did mess that one up, thanks for pointing it out to me.
Ring of Quickened True Strike:
Level 5 spell, CL9, unlimited use
Let's say it's use-activated, but special: swift action.That's 90k for a +20 once per round.
Now put that in the hands of a level 20 fighter with the best vital strike...um...no...put it in the hands of a 20th level rogue...umm...no...
Put it in an enemy assassin's hands...now we're talk'n!!!
Ring of Quickened True Strike:
Level 5 spell, CL9, unlimited use
Let's say it's use-activated, but special: swift action.That's 90k for a +20 once per round.
Now put that in the hands of a level 20 fighter with the best vital strike...um...no...put it in the hands of a 20th level rogue...umm...no...
Put it in an enemy assassin's hands...now we're talk'n!!!
For 90k, I would allow it as a 5/day...not unlimited!
I agree it's not that awesome for a fighter who usually hits anyway, but this is the kind of item a GM should just say flat out no to without entering into discussing price (as he did when I wanted to make one).
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You can look at things like enhancement bonuses and try to price the thing out accordingly. But the way I see it, there are guidelines for designing an item that casts a spell and that's the simplest way to do it.
Take the venerable Hat of Disguise, for instance. It casts a specific first level spell at will. If we tried to break it down, like trying to equate the effect of True Strike to enhancement bonus, we'd be looking at a +10 skill bonus. With that kind of reasoning, the Hat of Disguise should cost 10,000 gold. Maybe more, since Disguise Self provides an untyped bonus.
But it doesn't cost 10,000 gold. It costs 1800. And it does that while closely following the item creation guidelines. Since it's basically just casting the spell, you still need to expend a standard action to activate it and you're still limited to a 10 minute duration as per the CL1 of the item.
A proposed Ring of True Strike ought to follow a similar pattern. It's a specific first level spell castable at will. Now you can argue that True Strike is a much more powerful or useful spell than Disguise Self and that may be true for a lot of campaigns. There's a reason the item creation guidelines aren't called item creation rules. You're free to limit it to a handful of uses per day or bump the price up to compensate. But if you start proposing that an item like this should cost tens of thousands of gold, you might as well just be saying that True Strike should be a 4th level spell or higher.
A standard action True Strike at will is not all that devastating. For most characters, it means one boosted attack roll every other round. And half of that character's rounds are spent not doing anything otherwise useful.
Now if you start speculating on what it would take to make it a swift action or faster, you're sailing off into uncharted territory. A use-action or continuous True Strike doesn't make sense by nature of the way the spell operates, that's pretty clear. And command word items are specifically activated as a standard action,...
Well in fact, the true strike spell is root of the problem, it's a non-scaling spell the typically requires a standard action to cast, thus it can only be used every other round, one round to cast, one round to attack. But by putting it into a use activated item, it breaks the system.
If the spell function were caster level based, say +4 to attack per 4 caster levels, then the caster level would factor into the item creation rules and you'd get a more balanced item. As is, you only need a level 1 caster to create it. This skews the entire system.
There's a reason weapons cost twice as much as armor to create, it's a combat oriented game, a hat of disguise is a role-play item, not a combat item, thus it shouldn't cost 10k. (especially since the Pathfinder version is a nerfed version)
I allow it in my home game, using the bonus pricing rules.
Insight bonus to attacks = (bonus squared) * 2,500 gp.
The "ignore concealment" kicks in when you reach the full +20 bonus.
Cost for the +20 item would be 400 * 2,500 = a cool million.
There's a reason weapons cost twice as much as armor to create
Because the bonus applies to both attacks and damage?
Maybe +1 full plate of DR 1/- would cost 2,000 gp as well?