Because Eidolons are technically not humanoid, right? Or would a bipedal eidolon be close enough to be affected by the spell?
The summoner can because of the shared spells feature of the eidolon class feature. Others cannot, as the eidolon is an outsider by type and doesnt count as a humanoid.
Because Eidolons are technically not humanoid, right? Or would a bipedal eidolon be close enough to be affected by the spell?
Share Spells (Ex): "The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list. This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells."
Your type does not change based on your shape.
However, Eidolons have a special ability called Share Spells:
"The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list. This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells."
So, yes, an Eidolon (any shaped Eidolon) can be the subject of Enlarge Person.
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NO, they cannot. A spell with he target of "you" is the key to this and enlarge person does not count towards that, as it is a creature touched.
Share Spells has two separate abilities: the ability to cast Personal spells on Eidolon, and the ability to cast humanoid-only spells on your Eidolon. The second sentence does not depend on the first.
Actually the society GM's should. If not then they are incorrect. The ability which works the same way for familiars and animal companions is calling out two different things. Your home GM is free to houserule as he sees fit though.
edit:Contact your VC if you need to.
Yes; though he has to choose whether he is effecting himself or the Eidilon on top of him.
Actually you cannot target them seperately, when the synthesist and the Eidolon is fused. Given that it uses its form, it doesn't matter much though.
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NO, they cannot. A spell with he target of "you" is the key to this and enlarge person does not count towards that, as it is a creature touched.Share Spells has two separate abilities: the ability to cast Personal spells on Eidolon, and the ability to cast humanoid-only spells on your Eidolon. The second sentence does not depend on the first.That really seems like cherry picking at the rules when the sentence before it states it needs to be a personal spell to begin with.
I do see how you get two abilities out of it, but sadly my dm does not see it this way, nor do the society gms.
If it isn't two separate effects, then the text makes no sense.
A personal spell can never have effects that doesn't affect certain creature types, since it has a targetline of 'You'.
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NO, they cannot. A spell with he target of "you" is the key to this and enlarge person does not count towards that, as it is a creature touched.Share Spells has two separate abilities: the ability to cast Personal spells on Eidolon, and the ability to cast humanoid-only spells on your Eidolon. The second sentence does not depend on the first.
I am sorry but share spells is not two separate abilities. Separate abilities are denoted by separate entries, not multiple sentences in the same entry. The first sentence is a qualifier for the second sentence. Before the spell can be cast on the eidolon the spell must have a target of 'You", then only if that condition is met you may cast the spell on the eidolon even though it may not affect a creature of the eidolon's type. Enlarge Person states it is "Target one humanoid creature", it does not have a target of "you". Therefore you may not cast it on your eidolon for two reasons, A. the spell did not have Target "you" in the descriptor and B. the eidolon is not a humanoid. I know this goes against the common belief about the ability but I will respectfully counter that just because many people believe something is true, does not make it true. People once believed the world was flat and the Earth was the center of the Solar System, but that was wrong.
However, there is a loophole that allows to to cast enlarge person on the eidolon normally. Step 1: cast alter self on your Eidolon (alter self is a personal spell and can use the share spells ability), thus turning your eidolon into a humanoid. Step 2: cast Enlarge person on eidolon.This loophole has issues though, like what your eidolon turns into and what it loses because of that. Another is that you cannot use this on a large (evolution) eidolon, so this only works in lower levels, and even then you are spending 2 slots to gain reach and damage...
Unfortunately, this little loophole would not work either, because even though Alter Self is a Target "you" spell and can certainly be cast on your eidolon, however it only changes the eidolon's physical guise but it does not change his Type and Subtype. A Succubus demon who changes form into a human form still remains an outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar), An Oni-spawn tiefling who use the ability may take the form of a half-orc and even gain some of it's abilities, but it is still and outsider (native), and likewise an eidolon remains an outsider as well.
People once believed the world was flat and the Earth was the center of the Solar System, but that was wrong.
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Name a single spell that would fall under both of the below categories:
A) The spells target is "You"
B) The spell can only target a certain type of creature type
The answer : None
Your interpretation of the ability that it requires both A and B to be true means that the ability is completely useless to have the sentence
A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider)
in it at all.
Why have that sentence in there is it can never ever be applied because of the previous sentence?
Therefore I submit that your interpretation is incorrect, and that it is EITHER not BOTH A and B that can be used.
Hence you can cast enlarge person on your eidolon.
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What asthyril said.
Also, there are no connectors that join the ideas of the two sentences. If it was intended to be read in the more restrictive sense, the latter sentence should read:
"A summoner may cast such/these spells on his eidolon even if..."
or
"A summoner may cast spells of this type on his eidolon even if..."
or better yet
"These spells affect the eidolon even if..."
But it reads "The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon... A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if..." Note the shift from "The summoner" to "A summoner" and "a spell" to "spells". Note the amount of repetition. Grammatically, nothing in the latter sentence indicates that the sentence refers to the type of spells discussed in the previous sentence.
My opinion as a professional writer is that the language of the description strongly suggests they are indeed separate effects of the same ability.
I am sorry but share spells is not two separate abilities. Separate abilities are denoted by separate entries, not multiple sentences in the same entry.
You mean like wizard's abilities to learn, prepare and cast spells are denoted separately?
I think the difference lies in the punctuation. If the two sentences were meant to reference each other they would be separated by elipses (...) or a semicolon (;)
So its either a punctuation error (not outside the realm of possibility) or a difficulty in compartmentalizing two separate rules on the part of the reader.
My personal vote is they're 2 separate concepts, so enlarge person would be applicable to an eidolon, but only a humanoid one.. If you're running a kali, thats technically humanoid, but a centaur or a scorpion is probably outside this spell's reach. (not from a literal interpretation but a subjective one...
But then i'm biased. I play summoners.
Certainly a terrasque is not a humanoid despite having 2 arms and 2 legs... a Xorn is also not a humanoid... some fine lines in what constitutes humanoid i guess.
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Just wanted to point out this post from SKR that has some bearing on the subject at hand, made in response to this subject . Seems like the devs support the position of Share Spells having two separate effects 1) allowing spells with target of you and 2)allowing spells that normally do not affect creatures of its type.
There's also this FAQ that pretty much comes right out and says it as well.
Humanoid is a creature type. As a rules term, it doesn't actually reference the English word 'humanoid' except as a starting point.
If you hack a dwarf's arms and legs off, make it an alchemist, give it wings and tentacles... well, it's still a humanoid despite not fulfilling the English language definition of the term.
Eidolons are outsiders. Full stop.
Humanoid (as in the English language word) outsiders, such as certain Angels and Archons, are not humanoids (as in the pathfinder rules term). Monstrous humanoids aren't even humanoids.
The shape of an Eidolon has no rules-bearing on its type.
NO, they cannot. A spell with he target of "you" is the key to this and enlarge person does not count towards that, as it is a creature touched.Share Spells has two separate abilities: the ability to cast Personal spells on Eidolon, and the ability to cast humanoid-only spells on your Eidolon. The second sentence does not depend on the first.That really seems like cherry picking at the rules when the sentence before it states it needs to be a personal spell to begin with.
I do see how you get two abilities out of it, but sadly my dm does not see it this way, nor do the society gms.
If it isn't two separate effects, then the text makes no sense.
A personal spell can never have effects that doesn't affect certain creature types, since it has a targetline of 'You'.
Uuum... parangon surge cannot affect you if you are't half-elf
Uuum... parangon surge cannot affect you if you are't half-elfNO, they cannot. A spell with he target of "you" is the key to this and enlarge person does not count towards that, as it is a creature touched.Share Spells has two separate abilities: the ability to cast Personal spells on Eidolon, and the ability to cast humanoid-only spells on your Eidolon. The second sentence does not depend on the first.That really seems like cherry picking at the rules when the sentence before it states it needs to be a personal spell to begin with.
I do see how you get two abilities out of it, but sadly my dm does not see it this way, nor do the society gms.
If it isn't two separate effects, then the text makes no sense.
A personal spell can never have effects that doesn't affect certain creature types, since it has a targetline of 'You'.
half-elf isn't a creature type. that is a special requirement for that specific spell.