Moose27's page

I just came across this last night, with an eidolon potentially being able to store up to 5 scorching rays. I can see why people would think it gains spell storing on each attack individually, but for 5000 item, that is just way too much power. agreed on the above posts.

I don't know if anyone has pointed this out before, but I found some odd discrepancies in the size categories for natural weapons.

Under universal monster rules it shows the size categories quite plainly.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/universalMonsterRules.html

(about halfway down the page under natural attacks)

A claw goes 2d6 garg to 2d8 colos. Makes sense. Then I found this.

"Improved Natural Attack
Attacks made by one of this creature's natural attacks leave vicious wounds.
Prerequisite: Natural weapon, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit: Choose one of the creature's natural attack forms (not an unarmed strike). The damage for this natural attack increases by one step on the following list, as if the creature's size had increased by one category. Damage dice increase as follows: 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6, 12d6.

A weapon or attack that deals 1d10 points of damage increases as follows: 1d10, 2d8, 3d8, 4d8, 6d8, 8d8, 12d8.

Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, it applies to a different natural attack."

I found this under monster feats. It shows a 2d6 jumping to a 3d6, and never dipping into the d8s again. I am super confused.

Also trying to calculate an eidolons slam, which is a d8. Under universal monster rules its only a d4...So I am unsure of where to find a reliable progression of size for natural weapons, and my eidolon will soon be taking large and having enlarge person on him, so it is kind of important I get this hammered down before I bring it to a game.

Oh and one last question regarding to how the improved natural attack feat and the eidolons improved natural attack evolution apply. I read it as applying to an attack form, meaning claw or bite or gore. My dm thought it may read as a single attack, example being a single claw out of a pair (or two pair). Any clarification anywhere?

Thank you everyone for the help!

I was making an elf ninja and was glancing over the poisons, and saw a few standouts. The drow poison knocks an opponent unconscious and has fairly low price tag. Applying multiple coats ups the dc by 2, and you can craft it fairly well since the base dc is only 13. It would also affect sleep immune races like elves and the like.

My question is, does this seem a little overpowered to anyone?

If I wanted to craft it, would base ingredients would I need?

Any other suggestions for posions? I have never messed with them but it looks like they give a serious boost to the already powerful two weapon fighting weapon finesse sneak attack monster the ninja can be.

Logically they wouldn't have anything on them except a set of clothes. If you're nice. Leave them some underwear at least :)

"It was hidden" doesn't count if they're stripping your unconcious body down and just take everything. They might not find the lockpicks in your secret pocket, but you don't have the jacket anymore.

I saw a gm once impose a rule that you could hide an item in a "secret pocket" but you take a 5 foot movement penalty and -2 to all acrobatics checks due to the awkwardness of its location. Super fun home rule, if not a little messed up.

My advice - don't give or let someone who barely understands the rules a summoner. Building Eidlons is tricky enough even with someone who has expirience playing them. Unless you want to be looking over her character sheet every level and she is also comfortable with being looked over all the time (even then it's still probably best if you have Hero Lab to validate the Eildon).

+1 she would essentially be running two characters, a full caster and the eidolon. For role playing I have found that since the eidolon does most of the work, the summoner gets ignored. Not to mention keeping the crazy summon list handy just in case the eidolon dies is also taxing on the player.

Most dms ban the synthesist and master summoner for the same reason society play does: they can solo an adventure meant for 4 to 5 people. Keep that stuff in mind while choosing.

+8 is a decent score, as most opponents wont have over double that, meaning you should have 50% or better to avoid. Sounds like bad rolls, which sadly do happen (had a paladin roll between 1 and 4 for every attack roll for two sessions, around 12-15 fail rolls).

You could try eliminating the need for acrobatics altogether by having the enemy waste their attack on an illusion or summon, which depending on your party, is a viable option. It would help you get into sneak attack position which helps the teammate by killing said baddie.

Bumping this thread because I have the same questions.

It costs ki points to use, so I would guess that the ninja just poofs them in. Otherwise an ability with ki cost to throw an item that any other class could just throw normally seems ridiculous.

Also, anyone know what the price on smoke bombs are? I know alchemist can make them but I didn't see them in equipment.

Thank you! This was very helpful. The -2 to hit wont be too bad, but the half damage is a bummer. Taking rend will hopefully offset that damage loss, and if things get too bad I could just not swing the sword, and by using only primary natural attacks I am back up to full attack bonus and damage.

I had another question regarding the sword. There are evolutions to by-pass magic dr and alignment dr, but I was thinking that a Cold Iron greatsword would be handy to have.

Or take an adamantium sword, but I didn't see that the weapon bypassed adamantium armor like it did in eberron. Is it just for the 20 hardness bypass or does it still got through adamantium armors?

again, thank you guys!

Hello all, quick question regarding a summoner and his eidolon. My character is level 7, and will be leveling up soon. I could not find a reference regarding the use of both natural attacks and manufactured weapon attacks.

An eidolon at 9th level gets 5 natural attacks, and the plan is claw/claw, bite, claw/claw. I was also going to give him exotic weapon proficiency-greatsword and another pair of arms to wield said weapon. The max attacks limiter states it only counts for natural weapons, and his base attack would be at +7, giving him another greatsword attack at +2.

I asked my dm about this and he thought there may have been a rule making the manufactured weapon a primary and all other attacks taking a -5 (-2 with multi-attack) but we couldn't find the ruling.

I found an older 3.5 rule about what he is saying, shown below:

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Manufactured_and_Natural_Weapon_Fighting

"Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual –5 penalty (or –2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon."

Did this carry over to pathfinder?

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thank you in advance, I appreciate any and all help!

Thank you! My dm and I generally came to the same results, except that the same power eidolon/summon monster is an either or, never ever both. Playing tomorrow again tomorrow, and I really do appreciate the help :)

Thank you, yeah we are all having fun, I am just trying to streamline game play a little bit. I played 3.5 for a while, and so did my dm, but we keep hitting instances where we are both wondering how something works, and that slows it down for everyone else.

Moose27 wrote:

NO, they cannot. A spell with he target of "you" is the key to this and enlarge person does not count towards that, as it is a creature touched.

Share Spells has two separate abilities: the ability to cast Personal spells on Eidolon, and the ability to cast humanoid-only spells on your Eidolon. The second sentence does not depend on the first.

That really seems like cherry picking at the rules when the sentence before it states it needs to be a personal spell to begin with.

I do see how you get two abilities out of it, but sadly my dm does not see it this way, nor do the society gms.

Hello everyone! This is one of my first posts and I am not sure if this is the correct location for this, but here it goes.

I am playing a summoner right now in a home game, but we are using society rules for balance (my dm runs society encounters locally).

1st: will the augment summon feat work on the eidolon when it is summoned with the 1 minute ritual?

Augment Summoning

Your summoned creatures are more powerful and robust.

Prerequisite: Spell Focus (conjuration).

Benefit: Each creature you conjure with any summon spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution for the duration of the spell that summoned it.

From what I have heard, the answer is no since it is summoned with a ritual. But that you can augment it by summoning it via "summon eidolon" which is a summon of the conjuration subschool. Thoughts?

Summon Eidolon

School conjuration (summoning); Level summoner 2

Casting Time 1 round

Components V, S, M (a silver coin)

Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)

Target one eidolon

Duration 1 minute/level (D)

Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

You open a rift between dimensions that summons your eidolon. Treat this as if you had summoned your eidolon normally, except that it only remains with you for the duration of this spell. While summoned in this way, your eidolon cannot touch any creature warded by protection from evil or a similar effect and your eidolon can be sent back to its home plane by dispel magic.

If you cast this spell while your eidolon is already on your plane, this spell has no effect. This spell allows you to summon your eidolon even if it has been returned to its home plane due to damage.

2nd: The summoners call feat from advanced players guide, does that enhancement work only with the ritual or would the summon eidolon spell work as well?

Summoner’s Call

Prerequisite: Eidolon class feature.

Benefit: Whenever you summon your eidolon, it is more powerful for a brief period of time. You may give it a +2 enhancement bonus to its Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. This bonus lasts 10 minutes after the summoning ritual is complete.

This feat is confusing, due to the fact they wrote the summon eidolon spell and this feat into the same book. I see why they put the ritual addendum on there, so that people who keep their eidolon most of the day wont get the bonus too long. But summoning the eidolon takes 10 rounds, which most combat is already long over. The summon spell as seen above would benefit from this feat the most, as you need to be mid level to get the full effect of the feat anyway. Otherwise I could see people dismissing and summoning their eidolon via the ritual every 10 minutes...

3rd: Enlarge person and the Eidolon. This has been a topic of debate for me lately. The share spells feat allows personal only spells to be cast as touch on the eidolon, even if their target can only be a humanoid. Enlarge is a touch spell not personal, so it wont count right? But if I used alter self on the eidolon, turning it into a humanoid, could I use it then?

Alter Self

School transmutation (polymorph); Level bard 2, sorcerer/wizard 2

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)

Range personal

Target you

Duration 1 min./level (D)

When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the humanoid type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, and swim 30 feet.

Small creature: If the form you take is that of a Small humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity.

Medium creature: If the form you take is that of a Medium humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength.

4: When can I first take improved natural armor evolution and the extra evolution feat? The wordings are very confusing.

Extra Evolution

Your eidolon has more evolutions.

Prerequisites: Eidolon class feature.

Benefit: Your eidolon’s evolution pool increases by 1.

Special: This evolution can be taken once at 1st level, and again at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th.

You do not get a feat at 20th level, and would I have to take the feat at the given levels or is that a range?

Improved Natural Armor (Ex): An eidolon's hide grows thick fur, rigid scales, or bony plates, giving it a +2 bonus to its natural armor. This evolution can be taken once for every five levels the summoner possesses.

same questions.

5: The spell like ability to summon monsters that the summoner gets states that you cannot use it when the eidolon is out. It is very specific in stating that on the summon monster description, However, under the eidolon it doesn't say you cant summon your eidolon when you have the summon mon spell like ability active. I know that just because it doesn't say doesn't mean you can, but I find it odd that it is so specific about the order.

Summon Monster I (Sp): Starting at 1st level, a summoner can cast summon monster I as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. Drawing upon this ability uses up the same power as the summoner uses to call his eidolon. As a result, he can only use this ability when his eidolon is not summoned. He can cast this spell as a standard action and the creatures remain for 1 minute per level (instead of 1 round per level). At 3rd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one spell level, allowing him to summon more powerful creatures (to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level). At 19th level, this ability can be used as gate or summon monster IX. If used as gate, the summoner must pay any required material components. A summoner cannot have more than one summon monster or gate spell active in this way at one time. If this ability is used again, any existing summon monster or gate immediately ends. These summon spells are considered to be part of his spell list for the purposes of spell trigger and spell completion items. In addition, he can expend uses of this ability to fufill the construction requirements of any magic item he creates, so long as he can use this ability to cast the required spell.

I know it says that it uses the same power to summon the eidolon, but why couldn't they just write that "only one may be out at a time", instead of stating you cant use it if the eidolon is out?

6: What is bond senses for? scouting? I couldn't really find a use for it as its duration is so very short.

7: do the claw attacks it gets count as one primary attack together (pair of claws) or are they each separate? once you get three primaries you get the multiattack for free, just curious

Sorry this post is so long, but I have yet to find a comprehensive FAQ page about all of the summoners editing mistakes. Some of this is drastically game changing (enlarge person, augment summon, summon monster then eidolon tactic). Thank you for your help!

Your type does not change based on your shape.

However, Eidolons have a special ability called Share Spells:

"The summoner may cast a spell with a target of “you” on his eidolon (as a spell with a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon's type (outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the summoner spell list. This ability does not allow the eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if they function like spells."

So, yes, an Eidolon (any shaped Eidolon) can be the subject of Enlarge Person.

NO, they cannot. A spell with he target of "you" is the key to this and enlarge person does not count towards that, as it is a creature touched.

However, there is a loophole that allows to to cast enlarge person on the eidolon normally. Step 1: cast alter self on your Eidolon (alter self is a personal spell and can use the share spells ability), thus turning your eidolon into a humanoid. Step 2: cast Enlarge person on eidolon.

This loophole has issues though, like what your eidolon turns into and what it loses because of that. Another is that you cannot use this on a large (evolution) eidolon, so this only works in lower levels, and even then you are spending 2 slots to gain reach and damage...