Oterisk's Guide to the Dragon Disciple

[GM_Solspiral]

Working on my Cavalier Guide I just had to do a Dragon Knight and your guide was an excellent reference.

Thanks for that

[Major_Blackhart]

GM_Solspiral

I think you have too many Eldritch Heritages. If I recall, because people have told me on the rules forums many a time, you can only have one eldritch heritage per character. Not sure why.
Not only that, but the inherent strength bonuses from Orc and Abyssal don't stack. Both from the same source, so I've been told again.

[ZanThrax]

Both of those points are correct Blackhart. You can't take the same feat twice unless it says you can. Eldritch Heritage doesn't say you can. And Inherent bonuses don't stack, so there'd be no point.

[That Other Guy]

So, I love the guide, and before I read it I never considered playing a DD in my whole life.

Now I'm playing one in a PBP. I'm going with a barb1/sor4/DD build, and I basically followed the directions as much as possible.

However, right now I am a lvl1 barb, and I wear scale mail. My dex is 11.

When it comes time for me to level, do i cast aside my scales and just glass cannon for the next 3 levels, *hoping* I don't get clobbered while clobbering?

Thanks for all the things.

[Oterisk]

@Solspiral- That's a pretty good beast build, but the other guys are right. Inherent bonuses from Orc and Abyssal will not stack. That being said, there's a few extra feats for you to enjoy. Also, you could gain a bit of it back by putting more of your level bonuses in your strength. I think you'll find you are using your strength more than your charisma with this character. Having the options of the mount as well as up close or even dragon transformation (being a medium dragon on horseback would be interesting!) and a few low level spells to mix things up. Looks like fun to play!

@That Other Guy- My advice to you is to keep the scale mail until you get mage armor at level 4. You'll have the ASF to deal with, but if you stick to spells like True Strike and Feather Fall which can be cast in armor without trouble or touch spells like Shocking Grasp that you can cast outside of combat and hold the charge until you get in for some extra damage. Once you get to level 5, you'll get a second level spell. Alter Self is one of my favorites for the +2, but Mirror Image will help you in tough fights avoid a few attacks and be less of a glass cannon.

[That Other Guy]

Thanks again!

[Kyle '88]

After skimming it I don't belive you mentioned the Skinwalker race. For the Brute player I think the Fanglord or Ragebred with the focus on natural attacks would work well. Especially if you had a DM who let the Bloodrager's bloodline grow.

[AZGrowler]

I think you're underselling the Arcanist in your guide. There are two options that could replace Sorcerer as the Inevitable. The Blood Arcanist essentially trades most of its exploits for bloodline abilities. The other option is to take a level of Sorcerer or Bloodrager, and then take the Bloodline Development exploit. This allows the Arcanist levels to stack with the other class for purposes of determining the bloodline abilities.

The Arcanist is a little more flexible than the Sorcerer, particularly when it comes to spells known. You could have lesser used spells in your spellbook that you only pull out when you need them. The Quick Study exploit lets you swap out a spell you have memorized for one in your spellbook to make it even more attractive.

Finally, the Arcanist is an Intelligence-based caster, so the bonus to Intelligence that DD gives you helps out here.

[Forcy]

Hi Oterisk and thanks for your useful guide!

What do you think about a Paladin 2 / Eldritch Scion magus 3 / DD x Build?
Don't you think it will be a great melee build?
He get spell combact, spell strike, smite evil, great safe, can cast with light armor and ES bloodline will progress with DD!

He get less spells that's true, but i thin that DD is more a melee fighter than a "real caster" and Magus have some good buff to boost DD stats.

What do you say?

[Oterisk]

@AZG- I named the inevitables exactly that because they were the original classes you could use that you had to use. Originally it was just Bard and Sorcerer, but then Summoner got thrown in the mix. Now we have Skald and Bloodrager too, so I had to put them in there. The Arcanist has to prepare it's spells, so it doesn't qualify (except for the SLA work around).

Okay, the Arcanist is a bit more flexible than the Sorcerer. Although after playing a straight Sorcerer up through an AP I do pretty good with scrolls, staves and a Mnemonic Vestment at filling all the arcane needs of the group. It does help that we have a druid as well to also take a bit of the burden off of utility caster. YMMV. If you're playing a DD, you'd actually better not be the utility caster, because it's a bad idea. Stick to buffs and blasts and you'll be better off.

It's a pretty interesting new class although to me its a bit overhyped in my opinion. That being said, it's not better than a sorcerer in my opinion due to the amount of spells they get. Now I know there's tricks around that. But I'm not going to want to spend my resources to get more spells per day when I could have just had them from the start and spend my resources on things like doing more damage or having some good defense for when I wade into melee.

I gave it orange, just like the wizard. And the Wizard is a powerful and interesting option too. The wizard gets spell access earlier and when you drop a casting level or two in pursuit of the DD levels, that can be a real boon. So I think it's about right. If you want to show me a build that's got a lot of benefits over a sorcerer or wizard build, I might reconsider, but for now I'm sticking with my original assessment.

@Forcy- After playing an Eldritch Scion a little, I found them to be quite fun. Now many people make a stink about how they can only do spell combat when they use their arcane pool. That is a legitimate concern, and something you'll have to provide for. The ES would be a good place to go "IF" your GM allows the bloodline to stack. It's currently always a house rule to allow it unless something has changed lately, so tread lightly. Spell Combat does work with natural weapons associated with a hand (such as claw) so you're good there.

If you can't get the bloodline to stack, you might think of going with a Spirit Summoner. They too can cast in armor and have a much better buff list and early access to things like Haste. The Spirit Summoner also gets 3 levels of an Eidolon which you can turn into a wand monkey, so you actually don't lose much on action economy there and you don't have a -2 to your attacks.

In any case, the most important thing is to clear it with your GM and go from there. Also, builds are easier to judge when you add race and feats and skills. I'd recommend putting together the Build you proposed and do another with something similar and see which one you like better.

@Kyle- I'll have to update that.

[Lanitril]

Hey there. Hate to rain on the parade, but I was looking through the guide and noticed that you were still talking about using the SLA ruling to get into the class. That ruling has recently been reversed. I'd go into the exact details, but I don't have them. I dunno. Thought you ought to know, in case you didn't.

Here you go. New version of the ruling on SLAs: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qow

[AwesomenessDog]

So I am doing a Half Orc, Witch-Doctor prestige into DD; the GM is allowing my witch to qualify the "spontaneous level 1 spells" since I recently "ate" a dragon's soul, which seems a fair enough excuse for any game. Could you potentially add that option into your guide as from my personal analysis of the build, a "buffing, blasting, melee brute that uses com to cast" seems like a blue since everything else makes up for the -5 to the DC of hexes. I also want to know if you see anything that I potentially missed.

[Lithras]

You have forgotten the power of Eldritch Heritage (Ghoul), the most powerful claw attack in the game. I mean, you mention it, but there is not enough emphasis how powerful it can be combined with Ability Focus and Noxious Bite (plus Breath Weapon Ability focus) for a Green or Brass DD.

Combined with Noxious Bite (being Green or Brass) and 2 Ability Focus Feats (Ghoulish Claws & Breath Weapon), the Beast Caster can destroy anything not immune to Nausea and Paralysis with insanely high Save DCs (add a Cloak of Arcane Heritage to increase the DCs even more...). Depending on how your group plays the DD, (RAW it says "use your bloodline power to grow claws), it also extends your Bite ability.

With the aforementioned setup, you can force 3 high-DC Fortitude saves in a single full attack action. In that playstyle, I recommend you start with max CHA (20 as Aasimar) and very high Str (18 as Aasimar), get Crossblooded (Orc/Draconic) so you get great STR bonuses plus +2 damage per acid spell damage die. Get a spell-storing amulet of mighty fists and store an Elemental (Acid), Intensified Shocking grasp. Congrats. Before battle, cast the same spell again and hold the charge.

10D6+20 Acid damage x2 plus bite damage plus claw damage plus 3 Fort Saves for Nausea/Paralysis. Having dipped 1 level of Lore oracle (CHA instead of Dex in AC & Reflex) and having taken the Branded curse, making the amulet also conductive adds even more (fire) damage.

[Oterisk]

Lanitril- Sorry, I haven't updated the guide with the new ruling, although I was aware. For a while I was waiting to see if the Bloodrager Bloodline would be ruled to work with Dragon Disciple (it does) before I did an update, but then we ran into Psychic Magic, and I got very busy personally. I might do another update, but probably not until early next year.

AwesomenessDog- Sounds like a cool build, but it I won't be adding it to the guide because not very many characters get to eat dragon's souls and all. Enjoy your special ruling.

Lithras- Changing the damage type of a spell doesn't change its type, sadly. Shocking grasp will always have the Electric descriptor, no matter what type of damage it does. Corrosive Touch is what you'll want, although it's inferior to Shocking Grasp in pretty much every way.

Secondly, you need to be a Green, Black or Copper Dragon for Noxious Bite.

But the combo is worth mentioning. Most people don't get that high of ability scores when they make their character, but if you can do it, it's a really good build. I will find a good spot to highlight it, thanks for the notice.

[Lune]

I was thinking about Lithras' build. I can't think of any necromatic spell that does acid damage. Its too bad too as a cross blooded (black draconic / ghoul) with sorcerous bloodstrike could activate both bloodline arcanas and regain a use of his claws. Even without sorcerous bloodstrike (as it is kinda a crappy feat) it is a pretty strong combo. But I don't think there is a spell that fits the bill.

[Lithras]

Lune wrote:

I was thinking about Lithras' build. I can't think of any necromatic spell that does acid damage. Its too bad too as a cross blooded (black draconic / ghoul) with sorcerous bloodstrike could activate both bloodline arcanas and regain a use of his claws. Even without sorcerous bloodstrike (as it is kinda a crappy feat) it is a pretty strong combo. But I don't think there is a spell that fits the bill.

Corrosive Touch is fine in the sense that adding +2 damage per die is perfectly fine as well. The Alpha strike is still tremendous. My previous DD rolled fine with that one, I was considering switching for shocking grasp on this new, more optimized version of him but thanks for pointing it out.

Yes, I forgot Black dragons and I mistook Copper for Brass (it was morning at work), thanks for pointing out my mistakes, Oterisk :)

In a 25-pt buy, an Angelkin can be STR18 DEX8 CON12 INT10 WIS8 CHA20. Take 1st level as Oracle (Lore Mystery, Branded Curse) and you start with great AC & Reflex.

Lune,

With 16 rounds of claws/day you don't have to take Sorcerous Bloodstrike. And compared to high DCs for the Paralysis and Nausea, there is no room for Improved natural Attack either.

Here is my build. It sort of falls into the "Beast Caster" category in the guide. Good STR but focuses his level up points to CHA, since they empower his trick, which is Paralysis & Nausea. This build also focuses a lot on an "Alpha Strike", striking hard on the 1st round of combat to deal as much damage as possible while also incapacitating the enemy. Most encounters with a similar build would end on round 1, as me and the party's synthesists would rip Bosses to shreds before the rest of the party even got to act. The tradeoff is favoring DC enhancing feats instead of flat melee damage boosting ones. A D4+12 (14,5 avg) claw with a Paralysis effect rocks my day more than a D6+15 (18,5 avg), the difference in damage is not that big, and the "as high DC as possible" mindset makes it more sensible to increase the chances of a Nausea/Paralysis than single-digit more damage per attack. You will coup de grace them later anyway ;)

Moreover, this build is a viable swtch-hitter, like Oterisk says, you can also afford to sit back and blast with Acid spells if you wish to stay back in a fight.

Bloodlines: Orc/Draconic (Green)

Traits: Magical Knack (Sorcerer), Reactionary

1: Skill Focus (Stealth): for Eldritch Heritage

3: Warrior Priest: Low DEX, we got AC and Refle covered with the Oracle level, but even with Reactionary we are only at +1 Initiative and Improved Initiative as a Bloodline feat will be available at level 7, so this will help a bit for now.

5: Eldritch Heritage (Ghoul): Double claw rounds (16 total for 20 CHA, that's more than enough for a day's fights)

7: Ability Focus (Ghoulish Claws): Contributes to become a game-breaking machine.

9: Noxious Bite: See above.

11: Ability Focus (Breath Weapon): See above.

13: Improved Arcane Heritage: Free Haste and Bleed for your weaker damaging claws (why care about damage when you can coup de grace most opponents anyway)

15: Elemental Spell: I couldn't put this one earlier as we need to cheese out our Bite & Claws (do so if you are Human or Half-Elf), helps with acid-resistant or immune opponents.

17: Piercing Spell: Never underestimate the power of your Alpha Strike, hitting as hard as possible even if the enemy has high SR. Before the fight, cast a Piercing & Intensified (Rod it) Corrosive Touch and hold the charge. Moreover, put a Piercing & Intensified Corrosive Touch in your Amulet of Mighty Fists. Your first round of attacking will HURT with a bucketload of damage and Fortitude Saves to take the BBEG out of the fight entirely. Also good if you choose for some reason to sit back and blast (with this build, you have enouch CHA to viably do so).

19: Spell Penetration: Being 4 caster levels behind (2 with Magical Knack), now you are back on track.

Bloodline Feats: Improved Initiative, Intimidating Prowess, Quicken Spell, Power Attack

I guess you could switch a feat for Sorcerous Bloodstrike, perhaps Warrior Priest if you don't plan to Oracle or can wait with a sluggish Initiative until level 7.

Must-Have Gear:
-Metamagic Rod (Intensify Spell) to store your alpha touch to your AMF and to do your first casting with.

-Spell-Storing, Conductive Amulet of Mighty Fists (I also recommend to add Ghost Touch and anything else you like. Leave the enhancment bonuses for Permanent Greater Magic Fangs, as oterisk states in the guide).

-Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (in the form of a circlet, triangular hats don't look cool).

-Silken Ceremonial Armor (or Armored Kilt) +1 (add other enchantments later, don't waste on a further enhancement bonus).

-Belt of Giant Strength

-Headband of Alluring Charisma

-Robe of Arcane Heritage

-Ring of Protection

With this build (Oracle 1-Sorcerer 9-Dragon Disciple 10), counting only a Robe of Arcane Heritage, a +6 STR Belt and a +6 CHA Headband, at level 20 you will be at STR34, CON14, INT12, CHA30. Your Breath Weapon & Noxious Bite DC will be 33 and your Paralyze DC will be 32. A level 20 Fighter with CON16 and a +6 CON+STR Belt has +18 Fortitude (needs to roll 15+ to avoid Nausea and 14+ to avoid Paralysis). A level 20 Paladin with 14CON and 20CHA with a +6 CHA headband has +20 Fortitude and still needs to roll more than 10-11 (average D20 roll) to beat your DC, it's absolutely killer. Your AC will also go through the roof (AC27 only from CHA and Natural armor, goes up to 35 with Mage Armor & Shield, and then add any other bonuses you might have from a Ring of Protection, Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier etc.)

[Lune]

Triangular hats CAN look cool. Ever seen Ninja Scroll? Jubei rocks that jingasa hard, yo. :p

[Justin Lapointe]

Cheapy wrote:

Well this was unexpected.

So, Full BAB, Moderate spell casting, FULL CASTER LEVEL, and being able to rage and cast at the same time, and later CASTING BUFFS AS A FREE ACTION, are all pretty awesome capabilities of the new Bloodrager class.

How can we get the casting buff as a free action? (Sorry for my english I am a french guy) ;)

[TheJack388]

I dunno if you still check this thread Oterisk, but I have an update for your guide you may want to add.

When you talk about the Blaster casting style, you mention that Spell Resistance will be a large hindrance. Sorcerers just got an update that *hugely* helps with this for Dragon Disciples in particular.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodline- mutations

Specifically, the 3rd power, Blood Piercing. What it does is that when you cast a damaging spell, it will let you ignore a number of Energy Resistance *and* Spell Resistance equal to your Strength or Charisma modifier, whichever is higher. It only works a few times per day (up to 4 times per day at 18th level), but holy shit that thing is *AMAZING* for a Dragon Disciple, due to the quite frankly ridiculous Strength you can get.

Hitting 50+ STR score while buffed is not impossible at all, which means you'll have a solid 20+ modifier.. meaning your blasts now ignore 20 Energy+Spell resistance! Basically means you are guaranteed to do full damage and ignore SR, as long as you don't try to blast something immune to whatever you're blasting!

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Bloodragers can do this too! So either Sorcerer or Bloodrager into DD, stacking STR for a beast-caster build... Mmm, sexeh.

[Athos710]

In case anyone is here looking, there is an Investigator archetype (Questioner) in Magic Tactics Toolbox that replaces alchemy with Bard spell casting. So, it's another class to meet the DD pre-req's.

[Dalamar666]

Question?

Are the Ghoulish Claws really that powerful?

I ask because the save DC is really low. Unlike other blood lines this doesn't tell us to use 10 + 1/2 sorcerer lvl + CHA mod. It tells us to use "as the Ghoul ability (Fort Negates)." Which means we find the paralyzed monster ability and get 10 + 1/2 Racial HD + Con mod. We don't get CHA mod like a ghoul because we aren't undead and have a Con score.

So on the character I was planning after DD con boost at 11th level my save DC would be 10 + 0 + 3 to 6 = 13 to 16 max. doesn't seem very good to me.

[Particle_Man]

So with the prestigious spellcaster feat, one could be a sorcerer/dragon disciple/sorcerer without sacrificing any sorcerer spellcaster levels, at the cost of 4 feats (the prereq feat and 3x prestigious spellcaster).

How does this affect DD builds?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/prestigious-spellcaster

[XyZiron]

The new Dandy Archetype for Ranger also gives them bard spellcasting, so you can be a ranger then go into dragon disciple.

[Gisher]

XyZiron wrote:

The new Dandy Archetype for Ranger also gives them bard spellcasting, so you can be a ranger then go into dragon disciple.

Very interesting. The Silksworn Occultist casts Arcane spells so that is another new option.

[Gisher]

Particle_Man wrote:

So with the prestigious spellcaster feat, one could be a sorcerer/dragon disciple/sorcerer without sacrificing any sorcerer spellcaster levels, at the cost of 4 feats (the prereq feat and 3x prestigious spellcaster).

How does this affect DD builds?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/prestigious-spellcaster

It means that there is basically no reason for a Draconic Sorcerer not to take ten levels of DD. The loss of spell progression was always the biggest cost.

[Entryhazard]

XyZiron wrote:

The new Dandy Archetype for Ranger also gives them bard spellcasting, so you can be a ranger then go into dragon disciple.

The dandy is still divine

But a Kobold (or a Racial Heritage Human) with Scaled Disciple still can

[Kemuri Kunoichi]

Gisher wrote:

Particle_Man wrote:

So with the prestigious spellcaster feat, one could be a sorcerer/dragon disciple/sorcerer without sacrificing any sorcerer spellcaster levels, at the cost of 4 feats (the prereq feat and 3x prestigious spellcaster).

How does this affect DD builds?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/prestigious-spellcaster

It means that there is basically no reason for a Draconic Sorcerer not to take ten levels of DD. The loss of spell progression was always the biggest cost.

Except the fact that it takes 4 feats...

[Gisher]

Kemuri Kunoichi wrote:

Gisher wrote:

Particle_Man wrote:

So with the prestigious spellcaster feat, one could be a sorcerer/dragon disciple/sorcerer without sacrificing any sorcerer spellcaster levels, at the cost of 4 feats (the prereq feat and 3x prestigious spellcaster).

How does this affect DD builds?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/prestigious-spellcaster

It means that there is basically no reason for a Draconic Sorcerer not to take ten levels of DD. The loss of spell progression was always the biggest cost.

Except the fact that it takes 4 feats...

That's a very small cost. First of all, with ten levels in DD they have one more Bloodline Feat than a straight Sorcerer would, so the cost is effectively three feats. And for those three feats they get an excellent bite attack to go with their claws, an extra use of their breath weapon per day, better wings, Form of the Dragon II twice a day, blindsense, an extra +3 to their natural armor, +4 Str, +2 Int, +2 Con, +2 to their BAB, and they get to replace ten of their d6 hit dice with d12's - all without sacrificing any spellcasting ability. That's worth way, way more than three feats.

[itazuranarisu]

Great guide. A few questions for those of you who have had more time with this build. Mostly for flavor, I made a halfling Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer who is obsessed with his Draconic lineage. Super high Charisma, started at level three, now level four. Since I am a halfling my STR is abysmal (an 8). Is it possible to still get a decent build of this with a low strength? Should I just go pure Sorcerer? Also, out of curiosity I saw posts early on talking about buffing to ridiculously high strength 55!?). Didn't see that in the guide. Can anyone elaborate on that? (Not looking to actually go THAT high because my GM's head would explode but if 55 is possible I imagine more reasonable buffs are even more so.

Thanks for any advice!

[Potato disciple]

Alchemist sorcerer15 DD4 with eldritch heritage(abyssal) gives you
18 base +2 race +4 typeless DD +6 inherent abyssal +6 enhancement belt +10 size form of the dragon III +4 alchemical = 50, +20. Those people who got to 55+ added up the inherent bonuses from orc bloodline, abyssal bloodline and the manual, which RAW is illegal(multiple bonuses of the same type don't stack.
And as for you poor halfling, people who go DD usually want gishes, and with your base str score of nothing, you're gonna cap at 40 str, which, while is nothing to sneeze at, is still sub optimal.

[itazuranarisu]

Potato disciple wrote:

Alchemist sorcerer15 DD4 with eldritch heritage(abyssal) gives you

18 base +2 race +4 typeless DD +6 inherent abyssal +6 enhancement belt +10 size form of the dragon III +4 alchemical = 50, +20. Those people who got to 55+ added up the inherent bonuses from orc bloodline, abyssal bloodline and the manual, which RAW is illegal(multiple bonuses of the same type don't stack.
And as for you poor halfling, people who go DD usually want gishes, and with your base str score of nothing, you're gonna cap at 40 str, which, while is nothing to sneeze at, is still sub optimal.

Wow, gotcha. Thanks!

I'm definitely not looking for optimization, just a solid build. I don't even necessarily consider gunning for the highest possible strength optimal (though obviously I get that it would go a long way toward improved versatility and I'm glad to see what my options are).

That said, I'd still like to know if I should even be gunning for DD at all (and go the Dragon Mage path) or if I should just try to get the most out of being a sorc that eventually can turn into progressively more and more badass dragons.

[ElterAgo]

Up to you, but I know of some people that do a sorc/DD that is primarily a caster. They lose a little bit of casting power, but pick up quite a bit of survival boosts. Also, if they get stuck in melee or a magic immune opponent they are not completely helpless.

[David knott 242]

And with some feats from Paths of the Righteous, they actually don't have to lose any casting power.

[itazuranarisu]

Which feats? That's not a book I have access to.

[avr]

Prestigious spellcaster & its prereq favored prestige class. They should be on archives of nethys if you need details.

[zza ni]

seem like the op is not sure if bloodrager bloodline stack with dd like a sorcerer.
so here you go, enjoy!

[Dragonborn3]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but an Arcanist with the Spell Specialist archetype qualifies for Dragon Disciple. Since DD says if you don't have the Draconic bloodline you gain it, using your DD as your Sorc level, it also activates Bloodline Development. I used this combo for a melee DD with Eldritch Heritage(Orc) and had quite a lot of fun Shapeshifting into 30-40s in Strength.

[itazuranarisu]

From how I'm reading Prestigious Spellcaster, it only makes up for one level of missed caster per time you take the feat. Maybe I'm reading that wrong?

Either way, thank you for the answer.

Relevant Text:

"The transition into a spellcasting prestige class is less difficult for you, and because of this, you gain 1 additional effective spellcaster level from your prestige class levels."

"You can select the Prestigious Spellcaster feat multiple times. Each time you select the Prestigious Spellcaster feat, your effective caster level increases by 1"

[Gisher]

itazuranarisu wrote:

From how I'm reading Prestigious Spellcaster, it only makes up for one level of missed caster per time you take the feat. Maybe I'm reading that wrong?

Either way, thank you for the answer.

Relevant Text:

"The transition into a spellcasting prestige class is less difficult for you, and because of this, you gain 1 additional effective spellcaster level from your prestige class levels."

"You can select the Prestigious Spellcaster feat multiple times. Each time you select the Prestigious Spellcaster feat, your effective caster level increases by 1"

Yes, the feat 'only' gets you one level of casting progression. That's arguably the best class ability in the game. It's definitely worth a feat. Read my previous post for a cost/benefit analysis of this approach. I definitely recommend going DD and using Prestigious Spellcaster over straight Sorcerer.

[zza ni]

if you cross blood sorcerer dragon with shapchanger and pick the other's 3rd level ability, by te time you get form of the dragon (or cast it later) it would last for hours\level

[itazuranarisu]

Fair point. Just wanted to be sure that was known. Also, interesting about shapechange. Don't know if my GM would let me change now, especially if I tell him it's so when I "turn into a boss battle" as Ive been putting it it would last for hours instead of minutes.

[itazuranarisu]

zza ni wrote:

if you cross blood sorcerer dragon with shapchanger and pick the other's 3rd level ability, by te time you get form of the dragon (or cast it later) it would last for hours\level

Dang. That's pretty busted. I don't really want to give up the spells that crossblooded requires. Obviously I can see how much of advantage that change to the shapeshifting spells would be at later levels, but honestly I think it might be a bit much for the rest of the party to keep up if I can become a huge dragon for most of the day.

[Blike]

Not sure if you are still looking at updating your guide, but I'd highly recommend the Scaled Fist Monk archetype being added in as blue especially with unchained monk. The dragon style is only worth it if you go feral combat training but it is not only thematically appropriate but also a really strong option in general.
Charisma to AC for a sorcerer in addition to your ridiculous natural armor, unarmed strike with flurry if you run out of claws for the day and don't want to use transmutation spells to get more natural attacks, and if you take more than 1 level (4 recommended in my opinion) you get fast movement, a charisma based ki pool that can add more elemental damage to your attacks, and evasion. Doing a build that somewhat balances str, dex, cha you can get an unbelievably strong beater with a ridiculous AC, CMD, and saves.

[Alistair Sternholt]

I'm really happy to see this guide as it goes into a lot of depth about the dragon disciple, which is really handy since I'm trying to build a character utilizing it. The idea is 10 Sorcerer and 10 Dragon Disciple, with a cross blooded Abyssal and Draconic. I am curious however as to exactly what kind of build that would lead to. I'm aiming for something along the lines of the beast caster that is mentioned in the build, but does anyone know exactly where mine will end up on the balance between the two? Pathfinder still isn't exactly something I'm used to, so I can't easily guess, other than that it might be a bit more caster than beast with the example build mentioned.

[TheApapalypse]

In the guide you have Shadow JUMP under Sorcerer Shadow bloodline but it is Shadow WELL....jump is the wizard sub-school power.
Also, thank you for the guide,, my family has used it numerous times :}

Dragonborn3 wrote:

No problem! Sidestep Secret save money too, because I won't need a Belt to bump my AC later on.