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A cat in the Hat comes back scenario. Infinite halflings in backpacks!

It looks like one can do a respectable “one handed weapon, no shield” build. That is unusual, particularly for a core book in the game.

There is a fighter feat that lets you use tracks of opportunity vs concentrate stuff and disrupt them. Disruptive stance, I think it’s called.

Oh, I took Powerful Leap too early (not legal before I have Expertise in Athletics)! So I would move Titan Wrestler to level 2, Powerful Leap to level 4 and Rapid Mantel to level 6.

So if I use a gnome flickmace (a reach weapon that does not have the trip trait) and have the knockdown feat, can I use knockdown on an opponent within my weapon’s reach but not my arm’s reach? What about improved knockdown? Also, am I limited to using those feats on opponents no more than one size greater than myself (barring titan wrestler or other means of going beyond the size limitation dictated by using the athletics skill maneuver trip)?

Ok so I can use knockdown and improved knockdown at the weapon’s reach, but only on opponents up to one size larger than me (until I get Titan Wrestler as a feat)?

Interesting. Would the size requirement of my opponent relative to me still apply?

Particle_Man wrote:

So if I have a reach weapon and use Knockdown and my weapon doesn't have the "trip" trait, do I need to have the person within reach of my arm to trip them or is being within reach of the weapon enough?

If your weapon doesn't have trip, you can't be using it to trip.

So you can't take advantage of its reach.

I can see that for Knockdown. What about Improved Knockdown, where it seems to apply to the Strike of the weapon itself? Does the weapon still need the "trip" trait to simply apply the critical success of a trip to that strike, as per the feat, without making a trip action?

So 15 foot reach is two squares diagonally or three orthogonally?

For the purpose of movement, reach, lunge, lunge with reach weapons, etc., what happens when you move or attack in a diagonal direction on the square grid?

I think I would give up Lunge and Lunging Stance both now. Combat Grab at level 2, then at level 10+ go for Improved Knockdown, Disruptive Stance, Whirlwind Strike and Certain Strike. The usual floating feat at 15th would be Combat Reflexes.

So if I have a reach weapon and use Knockdown and my weapon doesn't have the "trip" trait, do I need to have the person within reach of my arm to trip them or is being within reach of the weapon enough?

I am liking combat grab and might make that my usual floating feat at 15th and I like certain strike and could make that my level 16 feat.

I assume that all of these feats are “either/or”? I cannot use lunge with combat grab or combat grab with certain strike buy pick one and only one feat to use with my action, if the feat costs an action?

If I stride or step first, will my attack have a -5 penalty to hit?

I missed something. What is the physical skill that sailing lore grants? Do you mean the athletics skill that sailors get?

Anyhow, thanks for all of the replies!

You have Sudden Charge listed as your class feat for both 1st and 2nd level.

Oh shoot you are right! That should be Lunge at level 2.

As for shield I was thinking of getting a gnome flickmace and steel shield for low levels but then going one handed with a free hand at higher levels once I get feats that require a free hand to use, which I think happens at level 4 with knockdown and if not, then at level 6 with the guardian’s deflection feat.

Well I guess the language of gnomes would be the obvious choice. It would explain the gnome flickmace training.

So when it comes to armor choice is movement more important than AC or vice-versa? Or are they about equivalent?

I guess starting with Hide ain’t so bad with 14 dex. Eventually I would improve dex and either choose movement or AC when switching armor.

Thanks for responding! I just had a “Did I leave the oven on? Did I remember to lock the door?” feeling and wanted to make sure I wasn’t making a character with a glaring flaw that could wreck its ability to contribute meaningfully.

I am trying to understand the ins and outs of Pathfinder 2e, and thought I would start by trying out a Human Fighter build (traditionally, a relatively simple character, so a good place to start if I don't know what I am doing).

So I am going to try to list various character choices and post it here so that people can answer some questions:

1) Is this build legal? Have I broken some rule in character generation or advancement? If so, what?
2) Is this build feasible? Have I left some glaring holes that I should cover to make the character useful to a party? Are there too many redundancies in the build?

Ok, here goes! Caveats: I heard that Gnome Flickmaces are good, so that will be the weapon I will build around. Also, I haven't looked into magic items for what I "should" have at higher levels. I assume I would get magic weapon and armour, given a choice. Stat boosting items if they exist too.

Jack (every inch a) Sailor (background) Neutral Good Human Fighter. (+2 str, +2 con)

Ancestry: Unconventional Weaponry (Gnome Flickmace). (+2 str, +2 dex, +2 con, -2 int, -2 chr) (took the two voluntary flaws).

Heritage: Versatile Heritage: General Feat: Fleet.

Language: Common.

Sailor: Skills: Athletics, Sailor Lore. Feat: Underwater Marauder.

Fighter: Skills: Stealth, Medicine, Acrobatics. (+2 str) (I will have a int penalty so I assume I am down one skill).

Feats: Sudden Charge, Shield Block (free)

Special Ability: Attack of Opportunity

Four free ability raises: (+2 str, +2 dex, +2 con, +2 wis).

So at level one: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 12, Chr 8. (I assume I don't lose the ability to speak my only language!).

So the total of trained skills: Acrobatics, Athletics, Medicine, Sailor Lore, Stealth.
total starting feats: Fleet, Shield Block, Sudden Charge, Unconventional Weaponry (gnome flickmace), Underwater Marauder.

Start with Fighter's Kit. I think I get a Gnome Flickmace for free via the feat. If not, buy it. Upgrade armour to Chain Mail (noisy, which is bad for stealth, but flexible for no penalties to acrobatics or athletics). Perhaps choose a bow in case I need to shoot someone far away and can't get at them otherwise.

Ok, on to higher levels! I won't list what fighters get automatically, but only abilities where I have to make a choice.

Level 2: Sudden Charge, Powerful Leap
Level 3: Toughness. Athletics (Expert)
Level 4: Knockdown, Rapid Mantel (stop using a shield around now, if I use one at all).
Level 5: +1 str; +2 dex, con, wis. Natural Ambition (Exacting Strike). Acrobatics (Expert). Weapon Group Mastery (Flail).
Level 6: Guardian's Deflection, Titan Wrestler (definitely stop using a shield around now).
Level 7: Die Hard. Athletics (Master).
Level 8: Sudden Leap, Combat Climber.
Level 9: Clever Improvisor. Acrobatics (Master). Floating Feat usually Felling Strike.
Level 10: +1 str, con; +2 dex, wis. Improved Knockdown, Cat Fall.
Level 11: Breath Control. Stealth (Expert).
Level 12: Lunging Stance, Quick Swim.
Level 13: Unconventional Expertise. Stealth (Master).
Level 14: Whirlwind Strike, Quick Climber.
Level 15: +1 str, dex, con; +2 wis. Incredible Initiative. Athletics (Legendary). Floating Feat usually Disruptive Stance.
Level 16: Guiding Finish, Cloud Jump.
Level 17: General Training: Canny Acumen (Will Save). Acrobatics (Legendary).
Level 18: Savage Critical, Kip up.
Level 19: Quick Squeeze, Stealth (Legendary).
Level 20: +1 str, dex. +2 int, chr. Extra trained skill from int boost: Nature (I assume going from 8 to 10 in int does not grant an extra language). Boundless Reprisals, Steady Balance.

Anyhow, thanks to anyone that bothers to read this. Greater thanks to anyone that bothers to respond!

If I use the 2 action knockdown maneuver but on the strike I get a critical success and being a 5th level human fighter with unconventional weaponry and mastery in, say, gnome flickmace, make the opponent prone on that strike, then there seems to be nothing for my second action to do since I can’t try to trip someone that is prone already. Does that second action still get used even if it does nothing? Does it still count towards a multiple action penalty?

Does the use of the fighter feat guiding finish cause damage normally (assuming you hit) as well as forcing an opponent’s movement? Or do you merely force the opponent’s movement on a hit?

Sudden Leap takes two actions and combines a leap, high jump or long jump with a strike. Quick jump shortens a high jump or long jump to one action instead of two. Does it also shorten Sudden Leap to one action?

Thanks!

If I raise my Intelligence from 12 to 14 at level 5 do I get an extra trained skill? An extra language known? Both? Neither?

I was wondering if anyone compiled a list of all feats, spells, etc. that are free actions.

Funny, I am coming at this from a Tome of Battle 3.5 point of view where there are maneuvers that specifically heal your allies in the midst of combat, (even as a direct result of hitting an enemy). So I am fine with it not requiring a free hand.

Could I have a character that knows the shield cantrip from the arcane list, the divine list and the occult list?

If so, can I cast shield from the arcane list in round 1, shield from the divine list in round 2, and shield from the occult list in round 3?

This is either an interesting build or a completely illegal one (still waiting to hear about the ruling on this):

The Two-Handed Weapon, with Shield build.

Half-elf with Otherworldly Magic (take Shield as an Arcane spell). Then take fighter but use some of your class feats to get Cleric Archetype Spellcasting and (via Multitalented) Bard Archetype Spellcasting. Take Shield as a Divine spell. Take Shield as an Occult Spell. Take Power Attack and Furious Focus.

Ok, you are set. You have a large two handed weapon to beat things up with. When someone hits you, you cast Arcane Shield to mitigate the damage. That cantrip has a 10 minute recharge. But if someone hits you a second time (say in the next round), then you cast Divine Shield. And if they hit you a third time (say in the third round), then you cast Occult Shield! Hopefully, after that, you have pasted your opponent via Power Attack.

So it is an interesting idea. Is it legal? I don't know. It depends on whether you can learn spells of the same name from different lists and what the 10 minute recharge on Shield applies to (just the specific Arcane Shield, if cast as an Arcane spell, or to all of Arcane, Divine and Occult Shields if any one of them is cast?).

For Gods, Nethys seems like a good choice, although Iori could work. Both let you take the Enigma Muse, which gives you Bardic Lore. Maybe even go for Cleric Archetype feats to get Domain spells in Protection or Might. Take some Athletics friendly skill feats. Heck you could be casting 8th level Cleric and Bard spells if you really want to.

And you have the Fighter chasis too (complete with Attack of Opportunity - not sure you need the Shield Block feat to use the Shield spell, but if you need it you have it). Nice armor, nice weapons, nice hp. Since you are half-elf you could take the human ancestry feat Clever Improvisor to mititage your relative lack of skills known.

Would the spells granted by archetypes make the spellcasting feats of archetypes better or worse than the class feats that they replace?

And I assume that Ancestral Paragon is a good general feat to take as it gives you an Ancestry feat?

Similarly is the half-elf ancestry feat Elf Atavism good or bad to take? It gives you an elf heritage but it costs an ancestry feat.

1. Is it possible to learn the shield cantrip from more than one list using archetypes (divine shield, arcane shield and occult shield)?
2. If so, can one cast shield from the divine list, then shield from the arcane list, then shield from the occult list all in the same combat?

Thanks! I am getting closer to this edition’s version of the 1st ed AD&D half-elf cleric/magic-user/thief.

I was thinking of making a half-elf rogue (thief) for Pathfinder 2nd edition and using the multiclass archetypes to get spellcasting in two traditions. I was curious as to what people thought were the best spells to choose for each level (from cantrip to level 8) in the cleric list and wizard list (although you can chime in for the primal and occult lists too!).

So if I played a half elf rogue (thief) and maxed out dex and left str at 10, then at level nine took multitalented as a racial feat and got the champion dedication, and then on all subsequent even levels took champion feats and abilities (somewhat weaker than a full champion would have) instead of rogue feats, but did not bother with the versatile armour one since my dex was so high, would the resulting character be crippled and a drag on the party or would it still be as viable as a champion without any multiclass archetype or as a rogue without a multi-class archetype?

If you had a character, either human (without the double stat variant), half-elf or half-orc, who has, after racial modifications, all 12's as stats, what kind of character would you build?

I was thinking a sorcerer 5/dragon disciple X might be fun.

Perhaps a bard could also work.

Thoughts? Aside from "Why? Why would you do this to yourself?" ;)

I guess another way to do it is via Leadership (the goto solution, but there ya go) and have a cohort or follower with one level of cleric or inquisitor stand next to you and use the law domain on you, but I fear the lifespan of said cohort/follower would be short.

Also, my particular party is large as it is so my DM would not favour the leadership feat. ;)

Thanks for the advice.

While I am at it what are the ways to increase uses of domain powers per day?m

The touch of order from the law domain. I want to apply it to myself and still be able to do something like attack or cast a spell. At low level preferably so quicken spell from the other side would be too high level.

Paladins can do their lay on hands on themselves as a swift action and I wondered if there was anything like that.

I was wondering if there was a feat that allowed a cleric to activate a domain power as a move, swift, immediate or free action instead of as a standard action. Is there such a thing?

Feinting vs. a non-humanoid has a -4 penalty.

Feinting vs. an opponent with int 1 or 2 has a -8 penalty.

If feinting vs. a non-humanoid with int 1 or 2, does that bluff check have a -12 penalty?

Aside from spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and other magical stuff, what non-magical things require will saving throws?

I have this idea for a brawler (snakebite striker)/VMC rogue with the snake style feats, the greater weapon spec. line, pin down, shadow strike and greater feint. This uses up the feats. For traits, I would take criminal, bullied and martial manuscript (and the meticulous drawback). This is just to set the stage for saying I have used up all the feats and traits.

Why is this relevant? Well, it means I have no space to improve my bad will save with feats and traits (without changing the character concept such that I would no longer want to play the character). And unlike the rogue or the monk or even the fighter, there are no class abilities that help with the will save or aspects of it (like a second chance vs. enchantments, or a bonus vs. fear spells).

So I would be joining a party with a bad will save progression. How bad is this? I know that I could be more easily charmed, frightened, held, fooled by illusions, etc. Can the party find ways around this? Should my character not be played?

At 15th level, the snakebite striker archetype of brawler can name two adjacent squares to count as extra squares their attacks could come from for the purpose of flanking. If this character is orthogonal adjacent to a medium sized enemy could the snakebite striker name two squares, each diagonally adjacent to the snakebite striker, such that those squares flank that opponent?

So if Sam the snakebite striker is south of Enid the enemy, could Sally name the squares northeast and northwest of Sally, which would be east and west of Enid and hence flanking Enid?

I am assuming that diagonally adjacent still counts as adjacent and that the two named squares have to be adjacent to the snakebite striker but not necessarily to each other.

? What does “dot” mean?

Is there any way to get extra immediate actions in the same round?

There is always aid another. Can be used to help someone with offence or defence.

If I were to run an underwater campaign (always underwater) what pc races could be played from level one?

I am a middle-aged human with middle-aged eyes, and so while admiring the Pocket Pathfinder Core Rulebook, could not comfortably read it. But I can comfortably read the pocket Bestiary 2.

Why would that be the case? Are the fonts the same size? Is the background colouring lighter in Bestiary 2? Was there a change at some point? Based on this change, which pocket books would you think I would be able to comfortably read?

I believe that the dividing line is between Int 2 and Int 3.

I think that is why in 3.x the celestial and fiendish templates, when applied to animals/vermin, bumped their int to 3 because it changed their alignment to always good/always evil.

Mind you, Pathfinder doesn't do that with its celestial and fiendish templates.

But I think that PCs are not allowed to have an int lower than 3 (barring poisons or other temporary effects).

Round 1 Bard inspired courage for party, sorcerer starts Summon Monster I spell.

Round 2, Sorcerer summons a Celestial Eagle, Bard maintains inspire courage.

Does the summoned Celestial Eagle get the benefits from Inspire Courage due to it being maintained by the bard (so the bard could include the eagle in round 2), or would the bard need to spend a standard action to "start over" and inspire courage, this time including the eagle among the allies.