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I just started up a new game, and my players asked that I choose some unconventional races to be played. I looked through my books, and decided I could run a game using only humans and all the races in the Dragon compendium.
My group is mainly made up of girls, and when they saw the Tibbit race, with sequels of delight, I suddenly had a party made up of Tibbits, and rogue Tibbits, at that.
Well crap.
Of course, they all switched into cats and immediately started acting like cats. In a haunted house.
Double crap.
They can't do anything!
I'm having a host of troubles. Any help would be appreciated on these issues:
Everyone dropped their strength scores to 7 to get the extra points, and when in cat form, Tibbits have a -8 to strength. And at a 5 strength, that -8 should put them at a -3. I know the lowest it actually goes is 1, but I just feel like it is giving the characters a free pass at lowering their scores as low as they'd like.
Because of the player's desire to be in just cat form, they haven't been able to function in combat; they just run away from all combat encounters. I'm also having trouble wondering if ghosts would even look twice at a cat (Edit: Actually, that question pertains to almost all semi-intelligent dungeon inhabitants). Assuming the world has Tibbits as a major race, would people just assume that a cat is a Tibbit?
My biggest problem is motivating the players. They pretty much just want to act like cats roaming around a dungeon. I feel like I should revoke the race, but I'm afraid that'll start a riot.
Help please?
Re-wright the dungeon to challenge them as cats. Skill challenges, fighting like-sized monsters (dire rats, dogs, etc). That's what I would do. Sounds like a fun campaign to play in or GM for ;)
EDIT: under the circumstances, if they want to be cats, I would set their Strengths to 3, normal for a cat.
IIRC remember Tibbits correctly,they are one of races that require special attention when updating them for Pathfinder - Pathfinder had serious changes in the way polymorph effects and changing shapes work.
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Old D&D monster called the ratlord- and hordes of intelligent evil rats come looking to kill and otherwise maim the Tibbits. Let them find a few that the haunts or ghosties have butchered first then have at it. If they don't stand and fight have them chased to a corner.
otherwise use a lot of traps and other tricks for them to overcome.
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Hehe, I understand where you're coming from. Personally I like tibbits. Or to be more accurate, I like MY tibbits. When my wife expressed an interest in playing one in our SCAP game I went to town PF'ing the race. The first thing I did was make it where the cat is their natural form, so when the change their "humanoid" gear is left laying there on the ground, I also imposed a fear of water on the race, it can be bought off with a feat, but only if you have a +3 or higher base will save. Otherwise the little catwere suffers a -2 to hit/AC/saves/ability AND skill checks. The big one for her is the having to leave her gear behind when she changes, she's used her cat form sparingly and then only for quick recon.
Sorry for rambling, but I hope that helps a little. :/
I just started up a new game, and my players asked that I choose some unconventional races to be played. I looked through my books, and decided I could run a game using only humans and all the races in the Dragon compendium.
My group is mainly made up of girls, and when they saw the Tibbit race, with sequels of delight, I suddenly had a party made up of Tibbits, and rogue Tibbits, at that.
Well crap.
Of course, they all switched into cats and immediately started acting like cats. In a haunted house.
Double crap.
They can't do anything!
I'm having a host of troubles. Any help would be appreciated on these issues:
Everyone dropped their strength scores to 7 to get the extra points, and when in cat form, Tibbits have a -8 to strength. And at a 5 strength, that -8 should put them at a -3. I know the lowest it actually goes is 1, but I just feel like it is giving the characters a free pass at lowering their scores as low as they'd like.
Because of the player's desire to be in just cat form, they haven't been able to function in combat; they just run away from all combat encounters. I'm also having trouble wondering if ghosts would even look twice at a cat (Edit: Actually, that question pertains to almost all semi-intelligent dungeon inhabitants). Assuming the world has Tibbits as a major race, would people just assume that a cat is a Tibbit?
My biggest problem is motivating the players. They pretty much just want to act like cats roaming around a dungeon. I feel like I should revoke the race, but I'm afraid that'll start a riot.
Help please?
First: I'm guessing Carrion Crown. I'm sorry.
Second: from what I'm seeing you want to play one game, and they want to play another. So either talk to them to figure out a reasonable se (explaining that you're not having fun); roll with them for a bit, and put your game on hold until they're ready to start a new one (seriously abandon the AP and save it for later, if that's what you're using); or be the totalitarian power you are and enforce THE LAW (not recommended).
Third: don't feel badly about them using the stats thing. It happens.
Fourth: You're not being a jerk if evil, malicious undead that hate all life happen to notice the presence of a living cat and decide to be... you know... evil, malicious undead that hate all life and do bad things to it. You are being a jerk if you spring that aspect of the game on players. If you go this route, explain to them in advance that it's going to need to get much more nasty. Also worth noting: most monsters in the bestiary find cats to be surprisingly tasty. Fun fact.
Suggestion: talk to them. Figure out what they want and why. If it's just "to be cats in a dungeon" then run that for a little while. Compromise. Tell them that it'll eventually get boring, but you'll run with it for them for now. Explain that it really doesn't fit your story to go with that, and ask that if you'll do this for them, that they please go with the story you're interested in later. Then run it to its natural conclusion. If they want the current story in this form, warn them simply that undead hate all life, not just humans, and will do terrible things to any living creature they see. That should help.
(ALSO: inflicting lycanthrope of various kinds and vamparism/undeath/possession is a means of changing their focus somewhat)
(ALSO ALSO: lacking in healing is a pretty terrible thing for a party v. undead)
Thats girls and cat races for ya....
I'd suggest continue as you would with a normal dungeon. When they get eaten a few times maybe they will create real characters to play.
I have to say I found this funny.
Saying that I'd run this game like Puss In Boots.
As several people have said, it sounds like your players want to play a completely different game than you do.
Have you considered introducing them to something like Mouse Guard?
My biggest problem is motivating the players. They pretty much just want to act like cats roaming around a dungeon. I feel like I should revoke the race, but I'm afraid that'll start a riot.
If they are having fun, let them. Just adjust the flavor of the challenges to fit the mood.
I'm actually running them through CotCT, with some added modules.
I don't want to tell them NO to their chosen race, it is just that they are getting angry at me for almost killing them in every encounter, encounters that they could easily overcome if they just swapped back into humanoid form.
Like it has been said, you are obviously running a very different game than they are, now, interested in. You can adapt or continue to kill them.
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I'm actually running them through CotCT, with some added modules.
I don't want to tell them NO to their chosen race, it is just that they are getting angry at me for almost killing them in every encounter, encounters that they could easily overcome if they just swapped back into humanoid form.
Yeah, the race isn't the problem. Your players just would just make silly choices regardless.
It seems like they just want to do fun role-playing which isn't something the APs (or Pathfinder as a whole really) are particularly well suited for. You need to have a chat with your players about shared expectations for the game and make adjustments as necessary.
I'm actually running them through CotCT, with some added modules.
I don't want to tell them NO to their chosen race, it is just that they are getting angry at me for almost killing them in every encounter, encounters that they could easily overcome if they just swapped back into humanoid form.
I don't want to sound like a jerk to your players, but that's their problem. If someone is playing a character and chooses to not use their abilities appropriately, then the GM isn't at fault.
Personally, I would tell them that this isn't working out. I would let them know I'm not having any fun. I would let them know that I'm not willing to run a game that I'm not having fun running. Just like I wouldn't expect them to be in a game that they aren't having any fun playing.
This is a good time for everyone to get on the same page on the expectations of what they want from their Pathfinder game.
I second the you both have a different game in mind sentiment. (or 3rd or 4th, I lost count). Personally for me I never found players being weak a huge problem assuming they are on the same power level as eachother, were it me I'd throw the CR system out the window, possibly boost the XP for whatever the massively nerfed crap I will be throwing at them is to make it at a comparable pace as a regular game. Bottom line is if everyones having fun you are all set. The problem is it sounds like you aren't, there are 2 causes for this.
1. This may just not be your cup of tea, if so you need to either talk to your players, let them know how you feel and that you aren't enjoying it.
2. Maybe you aren't giving it a chance? Is it possible your notions of what a game "should be" is causing you to not enjoy what could be an entertaining change of pace. This one isn't going to be your typical game, and I somewhat doubt this group would enjoy a typical game. Bottom line you can't make your players like your normal game, you can adapt to their style, or you can find new players.
I just started up a new game, and my players asked that I choose some unconventional races to be played. I looked through my books, and decided I could run a game using only humans and all the races in the Dragon compendium.
My group is mainly made up of girls, and when they saw the Tibbit race, with sequels of delight, I suddenly had a party made up of Tibbits, and rogue Tibbits, at that.
Well crap.
Of course, they all switched into cats and immediately started acting like cats. In a haunted house.
Double crap.
They can't do anything!
I'm having a host of troubles. Any help would be appreciated on these issues:
Everyone dropped their strength scores to 7 to get the extra points, and when in cat form, Tibbits have a -8 to strength. And at a 5 strength, that -8 should put them at a -3. I know the lowest it actually goes is 1, but I just feel like it is giving the characters a free pass at lowering their scores as low as they'd like.
Because of the player's desire to be in just cat form, they haven't been able to function in combat; they just run away from all combat encounters. I'm also having trouble wondering if ghosts would even look twice at a cat (Edit: Actually, that question pertains to almost all semi-intelligent dungeon inhabitants). Assuming the world has Tibbits as a major race, would people just assume that a cat is a Tibbit?
My biggest problem is motivating the players. They pretty much just want to act like cats roaming around a dungeon. I feel like I should revoke the race, but I'm afraid that'll start a riot.
Help please?
Adventurers need a reason to adventure. Why are they in the haunted house?
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How attached are you to running your campaign as you'd envisioned it?
If this were a campaign with an established history of being by-the-book, serious heroic fantasy and the PCs all suddenly decided to turn the game into Happy Lolcat Romper Room Time while insisting on their intent to complete the adventure, I wouldn't hesitate to dig a few new graves in the pet cemetery. They would all suffer the consequences of dumping their Strength scores to 1 and they'd have nobody to blame but themselves if some sadistic violin-maker or short-order cook managed to drown them in a river.
However, since it sounds like this game started out as Happy Cat Junction, you could just roll with it and establish some new guidelines.
1. Since the players all want to spend all their time as cats, make them cats. Ditch Tibbits altogether and let them be Awakened cats with standard bestiary-prescribed cat physical and WIS scores and the appropriate rolls for INT and CHA. Or, hell, don't even use the Awakened cat scores. Just make them plain old, ordinary bestiary cats. It doesn't sound like ability scores (or skills or feats or classes) really matter to these players anyway.
2. Forget about the adventure paths and modules. Go watch some old episodes of Heathcliff, Rescue Rangers or Tom and Jerry and get some ideas for stupid cat adventures. And, for the love of science, do not let your players watch Samurai Pizza Cats unless you are absolutely certain you are prepared for that level of insanity.
3. If the players still don't seem interested in completing the stupid cat adventure of The Great Catnip Caper, introduce the players to their new GM, an actual ball of yarn or an empty paper sack, and let the situation sort itself out.
4. If that worked, take a long, hard look at your life, ask yourself how it came to this, sigh and quietly leave the gaming table while your players cavort like a bunch of six-year-olds on ecstasy (not recommended for children.)
5. After you've had some time to drink, build a viking longboat out of milk cartons, pile all of your gaming materials and minis into it and then set the whole thing to fire before pushing it out into your neighbor's pool.
6. I don't know. Throw up on the police when they come to arrest you for setting your neighbor's pool on fire I guess. It doesn't really matter. Nothing really matters anymore.
*#@%ing tibbits.
This thread is one of the single most awesome things I have ever read. I think someone above mentioned running the game if only for the stories you'll have to share years later. I second this. Then again, it sounds like your campaign is on the road to self-destructing without some major overhauls. It might just be better to run a different game, if only to save your own sanity. Or it might not. Good luck!
Aaaand now I've got Neko Mimi Mode stuck in my head. Again.
This thread is one of the single most awesome things I have ever read. I think someone above mentioned running the game if only for the stories you'll have to share years later. I second this. Then again, it sounds like your campaign is on the road to self-destructing without some major overhauls. It might just be better to run a different game, if only to save your own sanity. Or it might not. Good luck!
Aaaand now I've got Neko Mimi Mode stuck in my head. Again.
Neko Mimi Modo desu!
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I almost found my self in a similar situation when I mentioned to a group of girls that the Mouse Guard RPG could be adapted to fit "My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic." I almost committed ritualistic suicide when I realized the blasphemy of the situation.
I also have a neary all girls group, and I have to say it is very different from the traditional mostly mens group.
To be honest, all of the best advice I could give you have already been said here. But here it is again in summary form:
At the beginning of a game talk openly and honestly to the players about how you are not having fun and that it is clear they have completely different idea's as to the type of game that is to be played. Ask them what their expectations are, what type of game they do want to play, and what they expect from you. You should have done that before the game even started, and you possibly could have avoided most of the trouble if you had.
Tell them the type of game you were expecting, and explain that you are not prepared to run a cute cat game. CotCT is a gritty, dangerous adventure with political strife, lots of evil foes who will skin you alive, and some mature themes. It isn't a game for cute cats who want to just mess around.
Find a middle ground and change the adventure. Also, change the race to be more in line with Pathfinder.
If you can't find a happy compromise, politely inform them that you are not the GM they need and offer to help them find someone else. Then find a new group. This is of course a last resort.
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So, to answer some questions:
The players are typically a standard gaming group. They play wizards and fighters and the like, in standard fantasy games. We recently cancelled a game because we all agreed it wasn't what any of us wanted (Shadowrun. Thank the gods our local gaming shop allowed the corebook's return) Someone asked for steampunk, another for weird races (I have every book, they've seen some of the weird stuff available), another for something Golarion. Seeing as how I already view Golarion as a mildly steampunk setting, I picked up CotCT, and off we went! I didn't think they'd play the tibbits the way they did...but they did.
I'm running them through hangman's noose. Once they're out of the courthouse, they're out of there! None of them are of a good alignment.
I really don't want to cancel a game after I just cancelled another one less than a week ago.
I have played an awakend cat rogue once and my GM made Moon Rats the main antagonists.
Moon rats are normal looking rats that can cast spells and are highly intelligent when the Moon rises.
Was very fun :3
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picture turning this issue around.
What if the DM had sit down with a carefully crafted game of Political Conflict - perhaps an Urban campaign with investigations, social interactions, stealth, spying and thieft. Got that picture?
Now the players come in and you have 5 middle school boys, each of whom have created a character modeled after AM BARBARIAN.
1st mission, planting magical listening devices at the Teldan Dukes Ball.... Results - 43 dead, major fire downtown and the players on the run. Where does the campaign go from here? and (for some people this is important) whose fault is it?
I think AM BARBARIAN would be great in a political intrigue game, y'know. He's not all about ragelancepounce.
Back on topic.
I too have encountered the "cute kitty being played by a girl" thing, it can get very distracting for those who don't really care for cats (like me). Having an entire party of that would probably drive me nuts. It's like anything where you get cute comedy characters played by PC's. I've seen it done well but when done badly it's just groanworthy.
The trick is to sit down and talk with your players. They are obviously having fun, so you don't want to stop that, but equally you are not having fun. Tell them that you don't mind a little fun but the campaign is not about a bunch of cats, it's about a group of accomplished adventurers trying to complete a quest. As nosig said your fun is important too and it's no fun to run a game powered by squee.
In short, the campaign is a dangerous quest to oppose a powerful opponent not nyancat the roleplaying game. Tell your players this and work out a compromise.
As several people have said, it sounds like your players want to play a completely different game than you do.
Have you considered introducing them to something like Mouse Guard?
+1 to this Mouse guard can be a lot of fun and may get at something they are expressing they want to play.
[Tangent Alert:] Reading this makes me think of Shaffar of the people (the cat who opens a room for you after speaking with animals) from the Ravenloft: Stone Prophet video game
So, to answer some questions:
The players are typically a standard gaming group. They play wizards and fighters and the like, in standard fantasy games. We recently cancelled a game because we all agreed it wasn't what any of us wanted (Shadowrun. Thank the gods our local gaming shop allowed the corebook's return) Someone asked for steampunk, another for weird races (I have every book, they've seen some of the weird stuff available), another for something Golarion. Seeing as how I already view Golarion as a mildly steampunk setting, I picked up CotCT, and off we went! I didn't think they'd play the tibbits the way they did...but they did.
I'm running them through hangman's noose. Once they're out of the courthouse, they're out of there! None of them are of a good alignment.
I really don't want to cancel a game after I just cancelled another one less than a week ago.
Well, it sounds like if they're normally fairly reliable and if you've recently had to cancel another game recently, it sounds like there's something affecting the group dynamic. Your best move might be to talk with the players about what's up and how to address it with some give and take from all parties involved. Seems like with the current situation, it has both the gm and the players aggravated here.
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Well, it sounds like if they're normally fairly reliable and if you've recently had to cancel another game recently, it sounds like there's something affecting the group dynamic.
Um, I'm going to blame it on Shadowrun, not the group dynamic. Or, the group dynamic was affected by Shadowrun. Either way, never again.
It is odd, because yeah, normally, they are very reliable players who love whatever setting they are in. I figured they'd take the tibbits as a race of 'halflings of a different color', not 'meow?'
Seriously, they are running the dungeon like you'd normally run a dungeon...but as cats.
Imagine:
Conan the barbarian.
Now imagine Conan the barbarian...as a cat.
Normally, this'd be funny. But haunted houses just aren't made for funny.
Normally, this'd be funny. But haunted houses just aren't made for funny.
Seriously, though, either change your expectations (haunted houses can be funny - Casper and Scooby-Doo, regardless of your opinion of those in specific, continually worked, regardless of the "haunted" presentation) or have a sit-down conversation with them and explain the problem.
It's not easy, but it's the best way to handle it.