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GreyWolfLord wrote:

Luckily, if that happens I'll still be able to print out a copy from the Free Offering of the playtest from Paizo, even if I don't get a more sturdy printed copy.

Many print shops can do book binding for a few extra bucks, even hard back.

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67) An old wizard dressed all in grey shows up at your door and forces you to leave with 13 dwarves.

68) same as above, except you escape and put much road between you, wizards, and dwarves.

69) You head off to seek your fortune in a brothel in a large town

So I'm thinking of starting a pbp since my gaming group and I have grown apart and I don't have time to devote to a structured weekly schedule. For the pbp campaign I have in mind I want to mess with spell lists a bit and here are my thoughts:

• You can cast any spell on your spell list as normal.
• You may cast any spell on any other spell list that has the same maximum level as you, ie. wizards clerics and druids or rangers and paladins or bards magi and summoners.
• Casting a spell of another class always takes 1 spell slot higher than the highest level another class casts it at. For example if there was a spell that wizards have on their list at 5 and clerics at 6, Druids could cast it as an 8th(with appropriate dc for an 8th level spell).
• Casting a spell of another class requires an appropriate knowledge check with a dc = 20 + spell level * 2 or lose the slot.
• All spells not on your list have a "wild" magic chance, that is reduced by the result of the check(this will be a dm behind the scenes type thing(that is still being worked out) but even if successful there is a chance of the raw magic going haywire, and the worse you roll the more likely it will happen)

What do you guys think? Will this give too much power to spell casters?

General advice:
Use a lance
Get power attack, furious focus
Try to ride a raptor(it's on the animal companion lost out of core)
Play a paladin
Use aura of justice
Charge, you get 1 attack at 3x damage(paladin level x 4 if outsider, undead, or dragon), your mount gets 5 attacks all using your smite evil bonuses

We handle it like this:
You collect loot as you progress through a 'level.'
Between sessions after you level you adjust your WBL accordingly, however found loot is worth the craft cost, not the market value.

For example, I had a hafling oracle who found a wand of wonder. It was worth 6k in magic items, or she could keep it and it'll still only cost her 6k. So she kept it. A lot of players keep items they normally wouldn't when they get them for "1/2" price.

First the rules:

PRD wrote:

Silent Hunter : Elves are renowned for their subtlety and skill. Elves with this racial trait reduce the penalty for using Stealth while moving by 5 and can make Stealth checks while running at a –20 penalty (this number includes the penalty reduction from this racial trait). This racial trait replaces the elven magic racial trait.


PRD wrote:

If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.

Note emphasis mine.

So an elf with silent hunter who successfully creates a diversion using bluff is at a -5 penalty to hide?

Candika, LE telepath/thrallherd and her two triplet sisters(one a wizard specializing in the creation of constructs, the other a cleric of undeath) with a modified fusion spell so all three could become one goddess of control.

At least that's where I wanted her to go. She only made it to thrallherd 1 and never actually got to meet her first sister in game :(

PRD wrote:
Hide in Plain Sight (Su) : A shadowdancer can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of an area of dim light, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

Me: if dim light is 10' away from the SD he an HIPS

DM: the SD must be in an area of dim light that is at least 10' large to use HIPS

Who's right?

Also does anyone read this ability as a SD can always stealth while being observed but still needs cover or concealment unless near dim light?

Sounds like a better set up is +3 holy, axiomatic, bane x3* bow. For +5 to hit and +5 +10d6 damage.

*assuming bane(outsider(evil)) is counted as a seperate weapon enhancement from bane(outsider(chaotic))

Otherwise I'll probably just go with +3 holy, axiomatic, bane(outsider(evil)) and use +1 bane(outsider(chaotic)) arrows for a +5 to hit, and +5 +8d6 damage.

If you look at demons in the beastiary they are Outsider(Chaotic, Demon, Evil, Extraplanar). You can choose any outsider subtype for bane. The only reason I wouldn't choose extraplanar is I intend on fighting them in the Abyss, and they lose the extraplanar subtype on thier home plane.

I get to make my own bow for a campaign that will feature heavily in the Abyss. So I'm thinking the best bow for this would be a +5 bane(evil outsider) bane(chaotic outsider) bane(demon outsider) holy bow. This would give me +11 to hit, overcome cold iron, and provide +11 + 8d6 damage. Thoughts? Should I just make +1 seeking speed baneX3 holy longbow and use cold iron arrows?

ossian666 wrote:

There is a player's guide for each AP.

Not sure why you came to the boards asking us to cheat and metagame for you...?

I find it funny that you as well as others tell me to go read the guide, without thinking that maybe I had read it. After all it is the players guide for the ap and easily found with a search. The funny thing is there is no breakdown of classes and what to expect, but rather just some background info on the starting town of Sasserine. I have read the guide, cover to cover. It implies swashbuckling, and that's about it.

As for meta gaming, I am asking because in trying to build a backstory where my father was killed by some other planes creature, and trying to make it relevant to the AP, and my character choices in the future. I'm not asking for huge ap shattering spoilers, just a piece of info to help tie my character to the story. I would ask my DM, except he sleeps at night and I sleep during the day, and we won't communicate until game time tonight and I'd like to have my background written and emailed before bed.

What Uriel said.

But I'll add that if they need to learn about a specific individual there is always diplomacy for gather info.

While I normally agree with you Remco, we have a solid time crunch on our games, so we do hand wave much of the RP parts, not all, but quite a bit.

My back story will be linked to my eventual choice of a favored plane, as an agent of whichever plane was the reason for my father to be forced to leave Mordant Spire, and my father's death 2 years prior to the start of the AP.

We are going to be playing savage tide ap and I want to know which planes we are going to do I know which to pick. I figure I'll take wherever we are at 3 but at 8th I want to pick my end game favored plane(so I can have the highest bonus on it). I'm thinking it'll be either hell or the abyss.

Also I'm assuming that for my 5th level FE I can choose Outsider(Evil) and be fine.

Would WWA be worth 5 useless feats? No.

However dodge is one of my favorite feats, anything that bumps touch AC is good.

Mobility is a decent feat, with this, Fullplate, and combat expertise you can usually move around that battlefield without worry. In fact if used cleverly against foes who lack combat reflexes you can greatly help your rogue get into position or a wizard/cleric get in close for spells that require them to move in close.

Combat expertise is very situational, I hardly use it except against things that need only touch attacks, because again anything to improve touch AC.

Spring attack, is not great, but not as trivial as some would lead you to believe. The main thing I use spring attack for is to close against monsters with reach. For that it's great, however it's a tactic that doesn't work well with the mobility one above.

All of that is worth four feats if your build will use them.

Now for WWA itself, don't expect to be able to pull off 8(or more with reach, enlarged, or what have you) attacks every round. In fact usually all I did with it was give up my weak secondary attack for a full BAB attack on a second character. Yes I have run into a room of zombies in the second AP for CotCT and my party close the door behind me and two rounds later I opened the door 2 CLWs down from full and a pile of decayed flesh in a neat little circle behind me. However that will be the exception and hardly ever the rule. But it was at least for that night well worth the investment.

Midnight_Angel wrote:

According to the table that comes with the Reincarnate spell, the character can come back as a Goblin.

The racial modifiers (on physical scores) for Goblins, according to the table, are Str-2, Dex+2.
According to Golarion's bestiary, the modifiers are Str-2, Dex+4.

So, which Dex modifier am I supposed to use?

Next question: With the advent of the ARG, the table is pretty much outdated, anyway. Unfortunately, none was included in the ARG (where it would have fit quite nicely, IMHO).
Am I supposed to whip up a table of my own if reincarnating, say, a Tengu?
Should I merrily keep using the standard chart (You might reincarnate as a Bugbear, but Tengu are out of the question)?

That's funny I just had a tengu get reincarnated in my last campaign. I died and came back as a human. It hurt as I was a Dex based inquisitor, but thems te breaks.

I would just add up all the 'possible' races and roll randomly with equal chance. Maybe add a special slot for a non possible race(like awakened rat or something). I never liked that reincarnate has a higher chance of making you human than bugbear.

How about grind your teeth you just add Str or con to will saves? I personally don't see fighters making a lot of reflex saves(except Dex based fighters and archers) I more see them as just "taking it like a man". Or maybe you gain a choice between will and reflex.

What I don't see anywhere is energy resistance. Fighters in myth and fantasy often shrug off fire cold and lightning. This goes inline with what I was saying above. I see a fighter eating a wizards fireball, and keep coming on. Ash covered and singed, hair still smoking, loose strips of clothing still aflame but ignored as the fighter stares down the wizard, who too late realizes his mistake, this is not just some metal encased peasant jumped up with a big pointy stick, this is a Fighter. Maybe a heroic that adds energy resistance 1 +1/3 levels to one type, and half that to a second?

Balin wrote:

maybe I am dense, but then what is the big deal about Awesome Display? It is a Save or Sucks spell with Illusions . And save or sucks is generally thought of as inferior.

I find monsters Will Save scale faster than the caster can increase his/her DC.

Do you find the Oracle dip/ sorcerer gets high enough spells to increase the DC to keep up with the monsters, or do you need to designate ever feat to keep up?

At 9th level with a charisma of 26 (18 +2 race, +2 inherent, +4 headband) a couple well placed color sprays, sometimes only 1, and a heavy hitter coup de grace all the 10hd unconscious baddies while 11hd and above stood motionless and blinded would make many battles a cake walk. Sure the spell doesn't work against casters so well cause of their good will saves, that's what mantle of moonlight is for.

Edit: This is from personal experience with a heavens oracle in Curse of the Crimson Throne.

All characters get the benefit of the vital strike chain anytime they cannot take their extra attacks for a high BAB. If you have BAB +6/+1 and you charge, you roll double weapon damage, all modifiers still only apply once. +11/+6/+1 roll triple weapon damage. This extra damage is multiplied on a critical.

Evil Lincoln wrote:

If you're playing online or allow computers at the table, having PCs link their spells to an SRD site saves a ton of time.

Does anyone have any advice on treasure dispensation, buff assignments, or spell prep? Non-combat elements can definitely slow things down. Also, remember, I'm okay with breaking the RAW if a "patch" rule can speed things up and preserve the fun.

For example: does anyone abstract treasure into GP values to skip the "trade in" step? Or allow the transferrance of magic abilities from item to item?

We do treasure as WBL. Each level you're allowed your WBL in gear, if you decided on taking any gear over the coarse of the last level you pay for it at 1/2 the normal rate.

Example: At lvl 10 I had 62k, when I level up I get 20k to buy new items(8k for a ring of protection +2), upgrade my current items(my cloak of resistance improves from +2 to +3 for 5k), and I'm keeping that Cloak of Arachnida from the drow cleric we killed(market value 14k, only counts as 7k cause it was a found item).

A couple of my favorites in regards to HP:

Every character gets 4hp bonus at 1st, reflecting their time as a commoner before choosing a profession.

Roll your hit die at level up, divide by 2 rounded down, add 1/2 your hit die. For example if you're a fighter and roll a 5 that's 2.5 down to 2 plus 5 for 7 + con mod total.

May I recommend some ranks in UMD and a wand of bless weapon? Against evil bless weapons ability to auto confirm makes all low BAB attacks much more effective. It turns needing to roll 2 15+ into only needing 1. Our gm allowed us scabbards of bless weapon once. That ended in a slaughterfest. He never allowed them again.

Remco Sommeling wrote:

1) You can not target a creature's specific square unless it is an AoE effect, you target the creature if it is within 10' you suffer the penalty.

I think you may be wrong about this:

PFSRD wrote:

If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character.

That seems to say I can pick a part of a big target to aim at. Since called shots are an optional rule released way after the fact, the only other way to pick a part of a target is to target a specific square of that target, much like trying to attack a large invisible creature. Besides where does it say you can't pick which square of a monster to target?

cnetarian wrote:

The guys in the front line should not be adjusting position based upon a bowman in the back line getting a clear line of sight. It is far more important for the front line people to position themselves for AoOs and stopping the enemy from getting through. A front liner is not going to worry about some bowman getting a clear shot because the bowman cannot be bothered to buy an essential feat when the chance of someone in a bathrobe eating a pounce and dying is in the equation.

That seems a bit harsh. Forgive me for trying to pull one feat out of a feat intensive build by, god forbid, suggesting a change in the 'accepted' practice. Like I said if the tank isn't AoO specialized then a 5' back isn't likely to open up a 'pounce' on any casters, in fact pounce is a fairly rare ability except in hypothetical builds, cats and AM BARBARIANs. Besides when nessicary obviously the archer would just suck up the -4, but I think that if you can get 3/4 of your attacks not focused on a melee combatant, through targeting enemy caster types, large and larger creatures, and group effort, then the use of the feat elsewhere will be better.

What about refocusing initiative and team tactics to keep your melee guys 5' out from their targets on your turn? Everyone seems to say that you will have to shoot into melee most of the time, but I've seen spell casters skirt baddies like this for years, and if the tank started doing it and you just attacked after him wouldn't that solve the whole issue?

I think I'm gonna try it, at least for a few levels. I'm a fighter after all, I can always pick it up later if I think it's not working. I was just hoping somebody had tried working around it, rather than accepting the feat tax.

I'm planning on playing a mobile fighter/archer and between archery feats, weapon feats, getting mobility and nimble moves as difficult terrain is very common and I'd rather that than Point Blank Master, I have a very feat intensive build. Common wisdom in the 3.0 days was you had to take precise shot. Now I'm not so sure.


Shooting or Throwing into a Melee : If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)

If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character.

If your target is two size categories larger than the friendly characters it is engaged with, this penalty is reduced to –2. There is no penalty for firing at a creature that is three size categories larger than the friendly characters it is engaged with.

Precise Shot : If you have the Precise Shot feat, you don't take this penalty.

First off I noticed no chance to hit an ally. Secondly the penalty is reduced by half if the target is 2 size categories larger, and eliminated if 3. interstingly if you maneuver yourself right, and your allies do to, you can avoid the penalty altogether whenever fighting a large creature, or larger, by aiming at a part of him that is 10' away from your ally:

x = empty space
a = aimed at part
e = enemy
f = friend
x x x x
x a e x
x e e x
x x x f

If you aim at the "part" of the enemy in box a it is at least 10' away. Might be a bit of a stretch.

Further more, if your ally is not an AoO junkie you can always use refocus to go after your ally, before your target so he can always 5' outta melee. Then there's also all the times that as the ranged support you'll be taking out bigger threats(like casters) while your frontline holds off the brutes.

Has anyone ever had any experience trying an archer without precise shot? Is it a viable build?

Okay first round of data in! I used an average 1/2 CR creature based off of the monster creation guidelines.

HP: 10
AC: 11
Attack: +1
Damage: 1d6 + 1(technically .5 average more damage than a CR 1/2)
Init: +1(I just made this up figuring the 11 AC was because of Dex)

My heroes were all lvl 1 human fighters with Skill Focus(Perception), Quick Draw and Iron Will, as all the other warriors in town failed the fear save for the horde of Weaklings coming their way.

Hero stats before mods:
HP: 10
AC: 16(The town equipped everyone with chain shirts and heavy wooden shields)
Attack: +1
Damage: 1d8(They also got long swords)
Init: +0

So what did I learn? Well nothing much. Strength dominates, while Constitution is nearly useless. The only new tidbit is that Strength has diminishing returns eventually, where Dex seemed to remain rather constant. I assume once average damage killed the weakling in less hits(from >5 hits at Str 3, to <2 at 18) was when strength started tapering off.

All the numbers:
Format: Str/Dex/Con - Duels won out of 100k - win%
3/3/3 - 698 - 0.7%
10/10/10 - 76755 - 76.75%
18/18/18 - 99972 - 99.97%

18/3/3 - 70012 - 70.01%
3/18/3 - 43029 - 43.02%
3/3/18 - 4399 - 4.4%

18/10/10 - 96443 - 96.44%
10/18/10 - 96783 - 96.78%
10/10/18 - 89160 - 89.16%

My code is missing critical hits(which I think will slightly favor Dex), and ties on init went to the hero, not the one with a higher Dex. I intend to run the same battery of tests against orcs, goblins, kobolds, and riding dogs. Then the plan is to create a survivabilty to point buy ratio so that one can optimize their builds based off how many points they wish to spend in physical stats. Lastly I'll work on creating fighting styles by having my heroes make use of actual useful feats for this, as well as different weapon options.

If I'm still motivated after all that, which is unlikely, I will start looking at what these things look like at higher levels with multiple attacks and buckets of hps.

We pick a rolling method, ie 4d6 drop lowest, and then add up the points. Then the gm sets a point buy and everyone builds off of their rolls up to the point buy which is usually a couple points higher than the best set.

You get "equal" characters, while at the same time vastly different stat distribution. For example I rolled 18, 11, 11, 10, 9, 9 and then someone else rolled something like 16, 15, 12, 11, 10, 9. GM set the point total at 22 so I had 5 points to add to mine, where the other guy only got 3. His character is far more balanced, and mine almost laser focused specialized.


I really like seeing someone doing something like this. I'm teaching myself python and I think doing similar research, though with different methods would make a good project. Would you be offended if I took inspiration from you and started my own statistical trials? Well I'm gonna do it anyways, but I won't post anything if you think I'm stealing your thunder so to speak.

Small mithril daggers only cost 250gp but still give you the +1 to hit of a masterwork weapon, and all the benefits of mithril.

I want to play a stealthy mobile archer character. Any advice on my build would be appreciated.

Rolled stats: 18,12,12,12,10,9
Elf, Fighter(mobile archetype)
Str 12
Dex 20(18 +2 race)
Con 10(12 -2 race)
Int 14(12 +2 race)
Wis 10
Chr 9

Race Options:
Silent Hunter(no penalty to stealth for less than a move, can run and stealth at -20)

Warrior of Old(+2 init)
Highlander(+1 stealth, and stealth is class skill)

1st: Point Blank Shoot
FB1: Rapid Shot
FB2: Precise Shot
3rd: Deadly Aim
FB4: Weapon Focus(Longbow)
5th: Weapon Specialization(Longbow)
FB6: Manyshot
7th: Nimble Moves
FB8: Greater Weapon Focus(Longbow)
9th: Dodge
FB10: Mobility
11th: Improved Precise Shot
12th: Greater Weapon Specialization(Longbow)
Not sure after this, maybe penetrating strike or critical focus.

Stealth (max)
Perception (max)
Acrobatics (near max)
Craft(bow) (up to +10)
Craft(Alchemy) (up to +10)
Survival (1 rank at level 1)
Cllimb (1 rank at level 2)
Other fighter skills (1 rank as I get a chance

We are using core and APG only. My DM may allow me to use expert archer in place of leaping attack.

I want to be self sufficient on arrows, and make alchemical arrows(like smokestick, alchemist fire, and thunder stone arrows)

I'm considering dropping my con to 8 in favor of a wis 12.

I know the concept isn't optimal, but I would like to optimize the concept.

Dodge and iron will are always my top two "extra" feats.

Depending on how much you encounter difficult terrain nimble moves, I don't know how many times I've wanted to 5' step and couldn't.

Serisan wrote:
Typically the answer here would be to double the base cost for an off-slot item, from my understanding.

This is a legacy issue. There is no body slot types anymore. A bracer of Int is the same price as a headband. Pathfinder did away with those restrictions.

Yes I can give you an answer:

PRD wrote:

Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point. The pricing of scrolls assumes that, whenever possible, a wizard or cleric created it. Potions and wands follow the formulas exactly. Staves follow the formulas closely, and other items require at least some judgment calls.

So your boots should cost the same as a ring, since it's the exact same effect. The reason for the cost difference from the formula is the "usefulness" of the item.

Hyla wrote:

Is suspect that no official ruling on this exists.


I'd allow it.

Me too.

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Okay here's the quote:

Sean K Reynolds, 10/22/10: wrote:

Weapon Specialization (page 137): Can you take Weapon Specialization (ray) or Improved Critical (ray) as feats? How about Weapon Specialization (bomb) or Improved Critical (bomb)?
All four of those are valid choices.
Note that Weapon Specialization (ray) only adds to hit point damage caused by a ray attack that would normally deal hit point damage; it doesn't increase ability score damage or drain (such as the Dexterity drain from polar ray), penalties to ability scores (such as from ray of enfeeblement) or drain, negative levels (such as from enervation), or other damage or penalties from rays.

And weapon specilization:

PRD wrote:

You are skilled at dealing damage with one weapon. Choose one type of weapon (including unarmed strike or grapple ) for which you have already selected the Weapon Focus feat. You deal extra damage when using this weapon.

Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th.

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

Weapon specialization does not specify HP damage either and yet is restricted to HP. So while this does not mean no ability damage by RAW, it is clearly does by RAI.

Actually it says "weapon damage rolls," which is different than "damage rolls". I was just reading in another thread about a similar issue and there was a developer quote that said something along the lines of "if it doesn't do HP damage it doesn't benefit from feats that work on weapons." that would mean a ray that doesn't do HP damage wouldn't be a weapon, and therefore has no weapon damage.

Let's see level 9 with 20 point buy,
Human Fighter(Archer) 9
Str 14 (5 points)
Dex 20(17 points, +2 Human)
Con 12 (2 points)
Int 8 (-2 points)
Wis 10
Chr 8 (-2 points)
H: WF longbow
1: Point Blank Shot
1(b): Precise Shot
2: Rapid Shot
3: Deadly Aim
4: Traded out at level 8 for Snapshot
5: WS Longbow
6: Manyshot
7: Clustered Shot
8: GWF Longbow
9: Improved Snapshot

+2 Composit Longbow +2 Str(8.5k)
Belt of Dex +4(16k)
Gloves of Dueling (15k)
6.5k for defenses.

To Hit: +9(base) +7(Dex) +2(enhancement) +4(weapon training) +2(GWF) -3(deadly aim) -2(rapid shot)= +19/+19/+15
Damage: 1d8(longbow) +2(Str) +2(enhancement) +4(weapon training) +2(weapon specialization) +6(deadly aim)=1d8+16

Frost Giant Is a CR 9 and has AC 21, so average damage is: .95(41) +.95(20.5) +.7(20.5) +.05(2(.95(41))) +.05(.7(41)) =38.5 +19.25 +14.35 +3.85 +.96 =76.91

I'm sure someone could do a lot better, but as you can see he could be doing a lot more damage. I used clustered shot instead of combat reflexes, if he doesn't have this than use enemies with dr. Even 5 dr can ruin an archers day.

Okay 4 Inquisitors with elven curveblade proficiency, improved crit eleven curveblade, weapon finesse, power attack, combat expertise, gang up, combat reflexes, leadership, outflank, paired opportunists, precise strike.

4 cohorts all are two-weapon warriors, with weapon focus, greater weapon focus, and improved crit scimitars, weapon finesse, outflank, paired opportunists, two weapon fighting, double slice, combat reflexes, combat expertise, gang up, power attack, crit focus and a selection of critical feats, stunning assault

4 +1 holy frost axiomatic elven curveblades, 7 +1 holy axiomatic dragon bane scimitars, 1 +1 bane frost holy menacing scimitar, 8 belts of physical might +6(Str and Dex), 4 Dex manuals +5, 4 Dex manuals +4, 12 oils of bless weapon, 4 oils of lead blades, 8 potions of fly, 8 potions of grace, 8 boots of speed

Inquisitors have following spells cast:
Greater magic weapon(each cast on their weapons, and their cohorts)
Divine power
Shared Wrath(at least one on everyone)

The plan, have everyone oil up weapons with bless weapon, inquisitors use lead blades as well, swallow potions of fly if need be, use potions of grace, have active bane and judgements(+ to hit, damage(true judgement), whatever), and haste. All fly up to 90' without drawing an AoO and ready an attack for when the last one attacks, and the last one attacks.

Inquisters will be at:
To hit: +15(base) +13(Dex) +6(luck) +3(morale) +5(enhancement) +2(greater bane) +6(flanking) +1(haste) +5(judgement)-4(power attack)=+53 to hit(+57 on AoOs)
Damage: 2d6(holy) +2d6(axiomatic) +4d6(greater bane) +1d6*2(frost) +1d6(precision) +2d8(large ECB) +9(Str) +12(Power attack) +8(judgement) +6(luck) +5(enhancement) +3(morale) +2(greater bane)= 2d8+45+9d6+1d6*2=104.2 average damage per attack(including criticals and 5%misses)

Two weapon warriors:
To hit: +18(base) +12(Dex) +3(morale) +5(enhancement) +2(bane) +6(flanking) +1(haste) +2(greater weapon focus) -5(power attack) -1(Two weapon fighting) -5(stunning assault)=+38 to hit(+42 on AoOs)
Damage: 2d6(Holy) +2d6(Axiomatic) +2d6(bane) +1d6(scimitar) +6(Str) +7.5(Power attack average for both weapons) +5(enhancement) +3(morale) +2(bane)=1d6+23.5+6d6=46.5 average damage(53.7 on an AoO)

There is a 98.62% chance that at least one of the initial 12 attacks will critical, giving all 4 inquisitors an AoO, and all 4 two weapon warriors 2 attacks as an AoO for every die that rolls a 15+. This will max out the Inquisitors and the two weapon warriors AoOs/round roughly 98% of the time, giving an average DPR of .9862(4(104.2 +2*46.5)) +.98(14(4(104.2)) +13(8(53.7))) =11969.5, killing said dragon 20x over, and also most likely exhausting him, blinding him, stunning him, staggering him, deafening him, sickening him, and adding up to 72d6 bleed damage on average.

As a side note, a single full attack by the inquisitors is 1667.2 averag, enough to kill said dragon 3x over, and the first twelve attacks will average 777.9, with 416.8 using just the 4 inquisitors. I'm sure someone better at optimizing could get the 4 inquisitors up to the needed damage on just a single charge each.

I am a feat short, I haven't decided on my level 10 feat yet. I'm thinking whatever I choose I'm gonna swap out at 12 anyways so I'm not sure what I'll take. Maybe improved initiative or step up. The campaign is only going to about level 16 so if I can get that sash it'll hold me through the whole campaign.

Yeah that knockdown feat is pretty broken. By fourth level your base damage will be +9 (if you bump strength to 18 you're at +6 strength, +1 weapon training, +2 weapon specialization, and with PA add another +6), so every hit will grant you a trip. At sixth every trip will grant you an attack. That's just broken in my opinion.

You may want combat reflexes at 5 instead of iron will. As a dwarf your will saves will e decent and at 6th you'll not only be getting an AoO when the enemy stands up next to you, but also when you trip them, meaning 2 a round. This also means you may want to keep your dex where it is. I also agree about getting improved trip at first and taking weapon focus at 3 and power attack at 2.

The cloak is a revelation from the heavens oracle mystery. Don't know if it's completely legal but it doesn't seem unbalanced to let her use magic vestments on it.

The majority does seem to agree that mithril>admantium, and I could do mithril and the +2 dex so I'll just wait to hear beck from my dm about the gloves of dueling and I'll go with that either this level or next.

I have power attack.
I could do that, it'd be 14k for the mithril and the +2 dex added to the belt, for a +2 to AC, +1 when enlarged. I would benefit from the better skill checks only minimally, and I could never compete with the paladin on being shiny :)

Mage armor doesn't beat the cloak thing +magic vestments as that's a total of +8 and Mage armor is only +4. I like the idea of greater magic weapon, though the paladin already has a +3 weapon, so it wouldnt help him any until 16th level, unless he reassigns the bonuses to abilities instead of enhancements. Maybe he would go for this.

I like the gloves, I will run it by my GM, he does APG on a case by case basis, so we will see.

EWHM wrote:

That'd leave 5k more, enough to make your full plate +2 with 1000 left for a bit of fluff

The magic vestments I get daily from the oracle is the same as +2 enhancement to armor and the oracle never runs out of 3rd level spells, and keeps that spell for her cloak of many stars thing, since she can't magically enhance it any other way.

As for the rest, I had considered asking the dm if I could upgrade the falchion to a +2, or even a +3, but I thought maybe some defense would be good. Though I can use combat expertise much more often if I increase my to hit by 2.

We are level 10
Str 26(belt +4)
Dex 18
Con 15
Int 13
Wis 17(headband +2)
Chr 15
Power attack, dodge, mobility, spring attack, combat expertise, whirlwind attack, weapon focus(falchion), weapon specialization(falchion), improved critical(falchion), greater weapon focus(falchion), critical focus
Traits bonuses:
Will +1, knowledge religion +1 and class skill
Equipment of note:
Belt of Str +4, headband of wis +2, ring of protection +2, amulet of natural armor +1, cloak of resistance +2, ring of force shield, MW spiked fullplate, plot device +1 "incomplete" falchion that radiates a CL 17.

Up until this point we had mostly only been able to find gear. I was able to buy the belt however, other than that I found everything within the AP. we have changed formats slightly so now we can pick our own gear at level ups, but gear we find gets subtracted off the total, but at less than full price. For example the oracle is keeping the rod of wonder we found so instead of 16k she only gets 8-10k.

Currently the max dex of my armor is only +3, so increasing dex will not help unless I also go with the mithril. Also I get enlarged often so it's nice that when I do my ac only goes down 1 not 2.

It's curse of the crimson throne AP so I'm not sure if we will run into more casters, but thus far it's been more martial. Also the oracle casts protection from evil on me most battles so compulsion isn't a worry, but anything else is.

For my tenth level fighter should I spend my 16k on an adamantium full plate or increasing my cloak of resistance from +2 to +4. I suppose some info would help

I have an ac of 28 in my current regular full plate, 30 when the oracle casts magic vestments, and up to 33 when I use combat expertise. I still get hit fairly often as I am playing a two-handed weapon brute and everything targets me first. My saves are F+11, R+8, W+8. The other party members are a paladin, and a wizard.

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