This thread was much better before it became about which poster is incorrectly defining terms.
I was rather enjoying the barbarian/paladin exchange, myself.
Of course it is, once you add that crucial piece of information.
On the flip side, a player who says, "I have a character concept that the mystic theurge would be a great match for, but I don't want to screw the party by being a wizard 3/cleric 2 in a 5th level adventure" is being extremely considerate to his co-gamers. It was a comment like that which caused be to add our Archivist option for clerics.
Agreed.
While I'm clarifying, the player himself is not a bad guy, he just sees red at certain game systems. A system transplant can solve many problems.
But that leads me to another player flaw: those who lose sight of the goal of having fun, and replace it with aspirations to realism.
Also, players who conceive of their own plot in advance and cannot handle deviations from their expectation.
I was rather enjoying the barbarian/paladin exchange, myself.
Sadly, I dropped out halfway through. I'm sure it is hilarious, but the caps hurt my eyes.
Exactly correct, EL. I should also point out that our houserules were always subject to player discussion, and on several occasions a proposed rule was called to a vote (in which I would abstain except in the case of a tie) -- so Hogarth would have been able to present his case in a less roundabout fashion.I've been guilty of building "cautionary tale" PCs, but for a different purpose: to point out houserules that I think were poorly thought out. It's childish, I know...Were I the house-ruler in question, I would be grateful and call your actions "playtesting." :)
I've only done so after friendly discussion had reached the point of "I/We haven't heard any complaints, so there must be nothing wrong with my/our house rule." Therefore, the only way for me to provide evidence that there's something wrong with the house rule is to make someone complain, I guess...
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Also, players who conceive of their own plot in advance and cannot handle deviations from their expectation.
This, and the same for GMs.
Also, sorry for the thread derailment earlier. :( I'm just tired of getting judged for what I play (especially since I get it from both ends of the spectrum - it's like I get flanked by elitism).
Also, if you can stomach the caps, the Paladin/Barbarian dialogue was pretty funny. :)
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Mine:
The phone people
They just can't put the damn thing down. It's like a thirteen-year-old boy and his penis, only this thing makes noises. The sad thing is, I remember playing with these people before they had phones. They can't, apparently, and are insulted when I, or someone else, mention they're distracting everyone. Check your texts, play your games, and whatever else during a break.
The people that can't be bothered to look up anything on their own
You have a nice shiny book sitting right in front of you. The reason it's so nice and shiny is because you never open it unless you're forced to do so! Please, learn the rules. Stop asking questions about how to use the same combat maneuver/skill/feat/magic item you've been using in every combat, every game day, since we first started this adventure. The reason people groan out "Longest turn EVAR!" is because it's true; you've been sitting there holding up combat for the last five minutes in order to perform an action that anyone else at the table could have done in under 30 seconds. Learn the rules. If this were your job, they'd have fired you before your probationary period was up.
The chronically distracted
These are the ones that, immediately after the description of room has been given, and the map's been shown, ask "What are those round things in the corner?" after having just been told what they are. Or they declare an action against the ogre who has been down and dying since the beginning of the round...probably because they're sitting next to the guy with the frickin' phone. So help me, if you ask me the same question someone else just asked ten seconds ago and I just answered, I will pelt you with d20s. My big ones. In the groin.
I don't. They prove they're powergamers once they begin playing. :)
Edit: My point with this post is that nobody can look at someone's stats, even in a point buy game, and immediately know what type of a player that is. Some people just like having particular stats (often high stats). That does not always mean that they're going to be a disruption to the game. The moral of this story: Don't judge someone's gameplay based on anything other than how they actually play the game.I don't believe you. When asked, you specifically said that having two 18s and two 7s qualified. Then you change your tune when someone calls you out on your prejudice.
Sounds a bit more likely that you see the stats and brand the player as a powergamer, and then just let the confirmation bias flow freely once the game starts.
And for the record, being a "powergamer" or a "min-maxer" is not a bad thing and does not mean they're a problem player. There's nothing (except certain people's rampant elitism) keeping Mr. Concept and Mr. Optimal from having a grand old time together. As I've said in another thread:
Just as a wizard needs to respect a fighter's brawn and a fighter needs to respect a wizard's brains, so too Mr. Concept needs to respect Mr. Optimal's ability to keep him alive and Mr. Optimal needs to respect Mr. Concept's ability to bring a story to life. Isn't that the kind of teamwork that this game is supposed to promote?
Prejudice? Well, you can see it that way if you like. I would hardly consider this a "bigotry", nor certainly one that ever needs changing.
I don't like being around smokers, because I don't think there's any upside to my getting lung cancer from their stupid decision. I couldn't care less if this was 'prejudiced' or not: I'm still going to avoid their company.
Similarly, I don't like playing D&D with powergamers and min/maxers, and there's absolutely no reason to change this opinion. You're reacting awfully strongly to someone else's opinion -- someone you'll never play in a game with, I might add. I'm assuming you are a powergamer, and somehow upset that there are people out there who won't tolerate it?
Either way, get over it. :)
Similarly, I don't like playing D&D with powergamers and min/maxers, and there's absolutely no reason to change this opinion....
Absolutely no reason, dumb paladin?
Similarly, I don't like playing D&D with powergamers and min/maxers, and there's absolutely no reason to change this opinion....Absolutely no reason, dumb paladin?
<sigh> No reason that has yet occurred to me. Such a reason may theoretically exist.
Are people actually having an argument over
Child :I don't like to play cops and robbers with the neighbor cause he don't die when I shoot him
Mother: Than find somebody else to play with dear. Or play another game
This thread is turning into family circus
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Cheeto Fingers. It's been years since I've encountered one but the emotional scars and book stains remain.
Also, the Antagonist. That Guy. The one that sabotages the party or the campaign. The one that tries to make the paladin fall or plays a paladin in a party of criminals or evil characters. The one that gives constant IC grief to a player because of his race and/or class choice regardless of that character's actions. The one that was drawn to the 1E Unearthed Arcana cavalier and barbarian like a moth to the flame. The one that actively makes himself a ticking timebomb of party-destroying drama under the pretense of "just playing his character" without a care for what the rest of the table wants.
If the antagonism is within the boundries of the individual table's social contract and everyone is cool with it, aces. Otherwise, @#$% that noise.
Cheeto Fingers. It's been years since I've encountered one but the emotional scars and book stains remain.
Ewwww ... :|
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PALADIN THINK MIKAZE PRETTIEST MAN ON FORUM. AM NOT KNOW IF THREE MILES. PALADIN AM NOT GOOD AT DISTANCES.
AM THREE. BARBARIAN HAVE GOOD SURVIVAL SKILLS.
BARBARIAN HAVE NEW PLAYER TO ADD TO LIST.
PLAYER WHO AM NOT GETTING THIRD DISTANCE.
AM CHARGE DISTANCE. THERE AM MELEE, NOT MELEE, AND CHARGE.
MAYBE CHARGE OFF BATTY BAT DISTANCE, BUT BARBARIAN AM NO PHYSICIST; DO NOT DEAL IN THEORETICAL DISTANCES.
ANOTHER SEMICOLON. MOTHER AM PROUD OF BARBARIAN.
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Of GravesScion's list the top 3 I would not want to play with:
1. Smelly
2. Self-entitled
3. NitroThe top 3 I would want to play with:
1. Mood-Killer (this guy would crack me up)
2. Former DM (need all the help I can get)
3. Pervert (I like that uncomfortable feeling)
come to one of my groups savage worlds games :P
And the pervert is a woman, playing a dragon. Its bad.
We should compile a list of all the crazy player types mentioned in this thread. I would like to give it as a handout to my players, maybe they'll take a hint.
Cheeto Fingers. It's been years since I've encountered one but the emotional scars and book stains remain.
Seconded. My books are precious to me. An orange fingerprint is an immersion-destroying buzzkill when I'm looking at my shiny artwork and beautifully laid out tables. I'm kind of a Nazi about this, actually.
Also, I just pre-emptively invoked Godwin's Law. You're welcome.
You *have* told him that he can't flurry a meteor hammer, right? It's not a monk weapon. Allowing something from a non-allowed book and bending the rules are two different things.
And the meteor hammer is the ONLY request of his I've entertained, btw.
*blink*
Hopefully that doesn't merit explanation, but thank you for the warning. *scribbles reminder in GM notebook*
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Sorry to have mashed on an obviously very sensitive button, I meant no ill will.
The sorry makes me feel a lot better, thanks. :)
Yes, it is (becoming) a sensitive button for me. There's a very vocal segment of the messageboard population that is extremely judgmental towards players they deem rollplayers/min-maxers/etc. About... let's say 75%* of my negative experiences with Pathfinder involve someone condemning me (either calling me out personally, or sweeping me into categorical judgments) for being bad at roleplaying - but making that judgment based on how "powerful" my character is instead of, you know, how well I roleplay. Your earlier post sounded like that was happening again - thanks for the clarifications. Guess I'm becoming a bit paranoid about elitists coming after me. Get stabbed enough times, and you start to expect a knife every time someone goes for their pocket, you know?
Anyway, back on topic: I can't remember if this one's been mentioned yet, but The Reminiscer: Spends most of this game regaling the table with tales of his past games.
OK here's a few of my favorites.
The work schedule conflict guy- his schedule at work is sooo messed up he can only play every so often but when he comes back in 4 levels he asks "can I just say I catch up to you guys and be 5th level too"
The smokers in our group are generally very good but if we go too long they do get testy.
The guy that can't wait his turn to DM next and wants us all to roll characters for a game that is literally months if not a year away.
I'm the guy that falls into multiple categories. Grognard-punster-always plays the same type of character(if it doesn't cast spells it's not worth my time to play)
Last but not least. PLEASE understand no disrespect to any of the fine folks here but we have a pathfinder cheerleader- This is the guy that will continue to talk in game about how PF fixed this issue or that issue or made this soooo much better.
We are happy playing in 3.5 and while we do use the AP's we don't want to do a full conversion. No matter how many times we tell him to shut up about it he won't. That's annoying.
/snip insane questions when you were already clear/
Needless to say, I'm already worried about how he will affect gameplay. And we haven't even met in person yet.
Here's the long and short of it: You're f&~+ed.
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Speaking of monks with Meteor Hammers, I let one of my players monks take one and allowed flurry just for lols. (She was like the crazy schoolgirl from Kill Bill)
She got eaten by a remorhaz before it got out of hand.
Back on subject, I don't care what you plop down for stats as long as its legal.
I'd rather have 10 optimizers than a single stinky uncouth player that whines all the time and is constantly checking his cell phone/laptop.
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There are some people who, if they have the same focus or tendency, can egg each other on. One person who makes lots of pop-culture quotes or references may not derail the whole campaign, but the more are in a group, the more the group gets derailed. One game got to the point where each player's turn was interrupted by whole Youtube videos, even ones other players said they hated!
Then again, half the group in that anecdote were tired and fidgety for their own reasons.
My single biggest pet peeve is when someone passive-aggressively brings their Real Life issues into the game, having their character act toward others in ways that mirror the players' issues. By this I mean team-killing, in-game insults, or even re-creating an issue between their characters. Spouses playing characters who are spouses is no problem, but exes whose characters make every sentence a snide remark at the other for no in-game reason just go from adventurers on an adventure to just another arena of pettiness, isolating themselves from anyone else.
(Come to think of it, exes on bad terms playing in the same campaign group is a recipe for danger by itself)
I've had to restrain myself a few times over the years from being the "Please can I use this splat book?!" guy. And I frequently verge on the "Can we PLEEEAAASE start above 1st level?! I'm sick to death of everything below 6th!" guy.
I've been guilty of building "cautionary tale" PCs, but for a different purpose: to point out houserules that I think were poorly thought out. It's childish, I know...Back on topic: The player who would rather be playing another system, and so chooses his PC's actions to illustrate why the current system is inferior. If not that, then he gripes and whinges about how the current system doesn't allow him to do what he should be able to, etc. etc.Needless to say, I have a lot of sympathy for those types of players. I would never have embarked upon my massive houserules project if it weren't for a few of those types of players, in fact.
Maybe I'm childish too, but I call that play testing too. I have the same attitude about the RAW: if the rules allow something, go ahead and prove how broken it is. Just don't be surprised when I house rule it. :)
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She sat on his lap and "cuddled" with him the whole time, and when it was her turn in combat, or the GM asked her what she was doing, she'd shrug, turn to her boyfriend and say, "I dunno, what should I do?" I wanted to slap her.
Was she cute? That goes a long way.
I once made chicken wings for lunch for the group, he ate over half of them himself, took the last of them when some people hadn't even had any, and didn't bring anything else to pass.
Dude's got to get his grub on. Reminds me of this feat:
Extra Helping
Benefit Whenever you and your companions are enjoying a group meal, you always manage to get two servings out of the meal instead of one. Choose one ally from among those who are dining. This character does not receive a serving.
I disagree and the next time I DM I will be having words with the offending person and if some things don't change, I will be booting him anyway.
That's fair. He may be unaware that he's being offensive.
Also, the Antagonist. That Guy. The one that sabotages the party or the campaign. The one that tries to make the paladin fall or plays a paladin in a party of criminals or evil characters. The one that gives constant IC grief to a player because of his race and/or class choice regardless of that character's actions. The one that was drawn to the 1E Unearthed Arcana cavalier and barbarian like a moth to the flame. The one that actively makes himself a ticking timebomb of party-destroying drama under the pretense of "just playing his character" without a care for what the rest of the table wants.
If the antagonism is within the boundries of the individual table's social contract and everyone is cool with it, aces. Otherwise, @#$% that noise.
Wowsers, I swear we've played at the same table. Ours was everything you said above, and in addition, a campaign assassin. The moment he became bored or disinterested, he'd do something terribly damaging in-game and nose-dive the entire campaign. In a Star Wars game, he openly assaulted a powerful evil npc in a heavily Imperial-occupied area; got the entire party captured and/or killed. All because he got a little bored. Just in the games I've played with him, I've witnessed at least 3 campaigns completely trashed because of his impatience and apathy toward the party.
I know this is thread necro (and I apologize) but I had some I wanted to add:
1) Doesn't know the appropriate time to cheat; the player who only ever cheats (or tries to anyways) when the outcome of their action was already determined to be a success. (you rolled a 19, why do you feel the need to pretend you got a 20?)
2) Doesn't roll dice so much as flings them across the table/room
3) Feels the need to interject gory descriptions of what happened every time their character inflicts damage, and even when the GM has already offered a description of what happened, offers a conflicting one. (you dealt the monster 9 points of damage to its over 100 health with that attack, and the GM said it pierced the monster's arm, therefore no, you did not lodge a crossbow bolt in its lungs)
4) Decides another is the leader. Will declare their most confident teammate to be group leader without consulting that player, or the rest of the group.
5) Comes to the game tired, interrupts game to go buy soda for sugar rush rather than coming prepared and bringing soda (and repeats every week).
6) Suggests no ideas other than those that are clearly bad (and that they're aware are bad ideas) because it would be funny.
7) Tries to teach new players (normally not an issue on it's own, but also:) does a bad job of it. (Teaching a new player that they need to be perfectly optimized or that they will die in any Pathfinder game ever is a bad thing, and untrue. Suggesting complex archetypes and strategies to a player who is still learning basic character creation simply causes confusion)
8) Verbally recaps the events of the campaign (in detail, starting from the very beginning) at the beginning of every week. Ignores cries of "We know, we've been playing this campaign for months". Also overlaps with:
9) Loves to talk. Is almost impossible to interrupt once talking begins (even by shouting over them).
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The ones I most hate.
The Down-Timer : Player who wants to play out every last second of down time. Going to the local tavern, stabling the horses, shopping for stuff, everything has to be played out with well-developed NPC's for every single thing anyone could possibly want to do during a visit to a town.
The Sex Fiend : Also Known as the Girl-chaser, the Womanizer, the Hound, and many others. Basically, the player who wants to make every visit to any town into a never-ending search for sex. The kind of player who, whenever encountering any female NPC of any kind, asks "Is she hot?". If the answer is ever, "yes", he immediately tries to seduce them.
The Carbon Copier : The player who plays the same character in multiple games, changing only the name and the story, the actual character itself is the same. An example, a player plays a half-elf fighter in a game. That game ends and someone else takes over to run. Same player plays another half-elf fighter. That game ends, etc., etc.
The Munchkin : Also known as the Min-Maxer and the Power Gamer. This is the player who tried to make a character that is absolutely godlike at level one. The kind of player that is not happy until they can kill Great Wyrms at level 3. Story and character development be damned, they just want power.
The Rules-Lawyer : Does anyone actually need me to explain this one?
The Metagamer : This one tries to use out-of-game information for in-game situations. Things his character could not possibly know, he somehow knows because the player knows. He then gets mad when you call him on it.
The Teleporter : I'm guilty of this one myself. This is when a player seem to be everywhere at once. No matter where he is or what he is doing, he somehow always makes sure he is right up front wherever the action is as soon as it happens. He could be clear on the other side of town, as soon as anything interesting happens, there he is, right in the middle of it. They throw things at me when I do that.
The Smoker : This one has been mentioned several times. Constantly stepping away form the game to smoke. Truly obnoxious.
And Lastly, but quite possibly most annoying....
The Inconsistent Player : Doesn't understand what a schedule is. Drops in and out of the game at a whim. Couldn't achieve regular attendance if you put a gun to their head. Despite this, Insists that they no be kicked, and, when they don't show, they get mad if we play without them. Despite the explanation of "Well, you weren't here", they can't understand how we played without them. They take it as an insult and a betrayal and refuse to ever come back. This lasts for about 2 sessions, then they go right back to the previous pattern. I've had an entire group of these at one point. I don't game with them anymore.
That's all I can think of right now. Oh, and a Necro only needs to be apologized for if it is a bad necro. This is a pretty cool thread (argument notwithstanding), and the necro is therefore forgivable.
Steve*:When is the next session? I want to game so bad.
Steve*:We still gaming tomorrow? I have my character ready, and all my gaming books in the car.
Steve*(4 hours before game time) We still gaming? I can't wait. See you in 4 hours.
The other players:(6 hours later)--Steve bailed on us again, and this time it was a no-call/no-show.
*Name changed to protect the guilty.
The Teleporter : I'm guilty of this one myself. This is when a player seem to be everywhere at once. No matter where he is or what he is doing, he somehow always makes sure he is right up front wherever the action is as soon as it happens. He could be clear on the other side of town, as soon as anything interesting happens, there he is, right in the middle of it. They throw things at me when I do that.
Alignment: Chaotic Everywhere.
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The No Responder - The person who cannot respond in a timely manor to emails, yet is on their PC everyday of the week for many hours at a time playing MMORPS.
I had 2 of those, we just dumped them. Really like both guys but never knew if they where showing up or what they would be bringing to help make the game meal I work hard at fixing. Also never posted in the group forum/website or got the DM the character sheet asked for until they show up to play or created a character background when told it was a requirement.
The Mooch - The person that shows up to every fame, heaps their plate full of food, throws more than 1/2 of it away and never once helps pay or chip in for the food they just ate or tossed in the garbage.
The Crafter - The person that brings their Needlepoint, or knitting or sewing to the game and works on that more than participating in the game
The Texter - They cannot stop texting on their stupid phone and claim it is important... Important to a Collage Student is what... Seeing where the next raze party is at? Who is dating whom?
The Interrupter - The person that decided to interrupt the DM right in the middle of them explaining something or having an NPC tell the party info. I found this is usually the person doing Needlepoint, or knitting or texting.
The Screechier - They use the most High Pitched God awful voice that just grates on you when they get excited
The Dipper - Stuffs a can of Skoal or Copenhagen into their mouth then spits it into a glass bottle for all to see all game long - GROSS!
Randy "Macho Man' Savage - Every time they hit the enemy stands up, Flexes their muscles and says OHHHH YEAHHH! Can also be called The Incredible HULK as they put fists together by their waist and flex showing teeth like the Hulk
So we have this party of decent players at 5th level and a new guy wants to join. He says he has a character he has used before in a different campaign that is 6th level. Without really checking the character sheet, out GM allowed it.
The character had a Rage Mage who had bracers with all sorts of magic wands attached to them.
When he cast magic missile spells he would yell,'You all see 5 silver dragons!'
As a player he knew the red snow was bad stuff you didn't want to walk through...so when he was raging and tried to close in with the enemy he plotted a trail around the red snow...He was ticked off when the GM pointed out that his character was raging and would take the most direct route.
The GM had to upscale all the encounters to take this guy into account. So. During a break I tell this glory hound that he needs to give the rest of the party a chance to do something. When we resumed his character decided to stay in on a lower level while the rest of the party went ahead. The encounter had been beefed up because of this guy and now the party couldn't handle it without him ... It was his way of trying to teach the party a lesson.
He got really ticked off when my character took out one of the two creatures in a single attack, so he came running in to save the day.
He was late...and very very ticked off.
..
The Carbon Copier : The player who plays the same character in multiple games, changing only the name and the story, the actual character itself is the same. An example, a player plays a half-elf fighter in a game. That game ends and someone else takes over to run. Same player plays another half-elf fighter. That game ends, etc., etc...
Different but not really: This player makes actually pretty decent characters. They are all very different. Different classes, ability scores, races, feats, etc... Plays every single one of them like a stereotypical 3.0 halforc barbarian. Charge biggest target to melee. Hack on it until it goes down. Charge next biggest target. . . Never retreats. Never pulls back to get healed. Never waits for the caster to fireball before charging. Never positions tactically.
Dunno if we have this one anywhere on the list but....
That one guy who's always essentially playing "himself with super/magic powers". One of my old players was like this, all his characters were essentially RPed as "me but with nifty abilities", and combined with his tendency to play only select classes (Sorc, Psion/Wilder, Alchemist, Summoner, and Monk) it got very tiring very quickly.
We got him to play a Warlock once, and not only was it awesome but he managed to actually RP the character as something more than just a fantasy version of himself. Sadly he got bored with the character and made a Summoner about three levels later.
I had a player once with narcolepsy.
Who constantly fiddled with his dice.
He'd be constantly rolling them during other players turns. Occasionally he'd faceplant and send the dice everywhere.
I laughed so hard at this that I almost fainted. I've read it ten times and I still start laughing every time I see it. 8)
I wanted to run a breakout adventure where half the party is fighting their way into a compound, while half is trying to bust out. I kidnap two of the players to start it off. On their turn the manage to overpower a guard and are getting ready to pick the lock of their cell.
Switch to the other two players...
"We're going to go back to the inn and try to buy some horses."
Me: "Ummmm, what about Bill and Ted who have been kidnapped?"
"How does that affect us? We're going to elven lands. If Bill and Ted can't make it, why should we wait?"
Me: "So you want me to run the rest of the campaign for the two of you, and tell Bill and Ted, who have been my friends for ten years, that their characters have died and they can't play anymore because you're going to the elven lands?"
"I'm just doing what my character would do, why do you have to make it sound like I'm a jerk?"
<facepalm>