Steven Tindall's page

Steven Tindall wrote:

Last session he didn't mean to but he kinda launched the main bad guy into orbit. We think she may be alive but were not totally sure on that one. The villains are built to be very challenging but our DM wasn't expecting his new reoccurring villain to get launched into the upper reaches of earths orbit.

You know, that's just asking the GM to have her come back later, more powerful than ever.

yeah we all kindda know that's what going to happen but hopefully by that time we will also be more powerful so it'll even out. Our DM LOVES reoccurring villains and he spent alot of time on this one so yeah he's not going to be letting her go anytime soon.

Steven Tindall wrote:

...he's a good friend and a really good guy but man can he break a character. Don't get me wrong it's all 100% legal but the power difference between him and the rest of us is pronounced just because of his power suite...

Ah... hmm... well...

I've been wanting to say something about MEGS for some time, but I was afraid to. It might stir up controversy. It just seems to me that MEGS was designed to be simple and flexible, and one big price of that simplicity and flexibility is balance.

You know how people on these forums argue about balance in PFRPG? "Rogues are underpowered!" "No, they're not!" "Humans are overpowered!" "No, they're not!" And people support these views with arguments that really split hairs.

Well, such people would tear a game like MEGS to bits. If you want to break the system, you can. Even if you don't mean to, you might. I generally think that the best thing is not to think about it, because it may spoil your fun.

As a matter of fact, I would go even further (and I would welcome a counter-argument to the following thesis, because this matter has really been ruining my opinion of the game in recent months.) I think that some of the balancing issues could have been fixed easily with some adjustments.

For instance, look at those direct-attack powers (such as Energy Blast, Flame Project, Lightning, Magic Blast, Mental Blast, and - in DCH - Heat Vision.) These powers have a factor cost of 3. (Well, I don't know about Heat Vision, because it's not in BoH, but I'm guessing that's 3 also.)

My problem with that is that in the game - as in most superhero stories - an adventure usually boils down to a battle, with direct attacks. And because the power APs are used for both AV and EV, it pays to pump up such powers a lot. It should cost way more than FC 3. I think it should be 7 at least!

I remember once playing the Teen Titans. (I know, I claimed earlier in this thread not to have used many DC characters, but this was a solo campaign, not a "real"...

Thanks for all the great advice. I think my DM has figured out another way to handle our superspeedster, since he likes to run ahead and take of the toughest of the tough the DM let him and he nearly died trying to stop Black Manats supmarine, something about oh being underwater and then getting shocked nearly to death, super speed aint gonna help that. I'll show the DM your sugegstions and see what he says. Thanks agin.

The power lets you use the strength of the power as the overriding value against your opponents. Example say the hero has a speed of 10 when he punches his strength may only be a 2 which is human average but his superspeed rating lets him hit as a 10 which a str of 6 is super str capable of lifting a ton and a half. Plus he gets more actions plus he can use his SS rating in place of his dex which is how you dodge. The air control was only taken so that he wouldn't create sonic booms as he ran but now he's developing combo's with the two powers that are really powerful.

Like I said his powers are 100% legal.
I hope I broke it down for you enough, if not when I get back on in three days I will be happy to try and explain again. Also thanks in advance for any help/insight.

apparently the game still has a lot of interest. I was following the core book on ebay for 7 days as it was listed for 5 bucks, 7 days later it went for 50. It is slightly cheaper than amazon but only by about 5 bucks and when you add in shipping and handling it went for basically the same price as amazon. Oh well. I looked at the prices on amazon for the core, cheapest was around 50 bucks used the most expensive was 500 new. nope folks that's NOT a typo 500+ bucks for a new out of print 23 year old book. I think I'm gonna pay my mortgage this month and just let it go.

On the bright side the game I'm in is still going strong so I wanted to ask a few questions.

How do you guys handle super speed, we have a speedster and he's a good friend and a really good guy but man can he break a character. Don't get me wrong it's all 100% legal but the power difference between him and the rest of us is pronounced just because of his power suite of super speed and air control. Last session he didn't mean to but he kinda launched the main bad guy into orbit. We think she may be alive but were not totally sure on that one. The villains are built to be very challenging but our DM wasn't expecting his new reoccurring villain to get launched into the upper reaches of earths orbit.

Next question what's the most memorable villain your guys ever fought using this system or BoH?

Last question for this post, Has anyone ever created a villain as a Playable character and tried it out for this system. I have an idea for the son of Ares to wreck havoc and I wanna play him as a villain and let the DM be the hero but does this system really support a continuous villan as a PC? Thoughts are welcome.

Oh yeah. I just thought of another good resource. There's a site with stats for tons of DC characters - some of them at many different times of their existence - here.

Aaron, Thanks for the link. It's a great site. Also I have DCH 3 on pdf if you want me to send it to you. I don't know where MY DM got it but I'm sure it's not stolen or anything like that. Since the books are so rare PDF is the only way to play now. It's two hardcovers and three laptops all around the table. I have been using it for weeks with no issues and I defiantly scanned the crap outta it.

Speaking as a GM I ran practically every sort of character you might ever find in a comic book (everything from comedic Tick or Ambush Bug-style characters to characters like the Adversary, and the Marauders from 90's X-men). In fact I converted pretty much my entire Palladium Robotech collection (I think I'm missing like two books in the entire series) into DC Heroes. Yes, all the mecha, all the aliens, most of the main characters, everything and that isn't even my primary focus of gaming. I'll steal from anything and most times my games will be set in their own set-aside, made-up city occasionally crossing over with other things in the DC universe that I want to include.

Since DC/Blood of Heroes was one of the first universal, one system fits all genres game systems (and way better than that pretender Savage Worlds which purports to do the same) it is a perfect fit for anything with lots of scale.

I own most of the DC line. The reason you're not going to find any inexpensive versions of the game in any form is that Warner Brothers actually owns the rights to the system and doesn't want to share therefore its been out of print for about twenty years.

If you are looking for resources the best is probably WriteUps.org. I recommend it to anyone who loves the game or just loves comics and the culture. They stat up and keep up-to-date about 4,000+ comic characters from across all companies (and spread out into manga, anime, TV, movies, books, and even other RPGs) as well as introducing new rules and equipment to the game.

Thanks for the info about write-ups. I had no idea about that site and it will help my game tremendously.

it sucks that WB doesn't want to do anything with the game it's till alot of fun to play.

Steven Tindall wrote:

This thread if it gets any responses will be a discussion about DC Heroes before it became blood of heroes.

Um... why? Surely Blood of Heroes is still recognizably the same system. What exactly do you have against it?

I mean, I haven't, strictly speaking, played Mayfair's "DC Heroes" since "Blood of Heroes" came out - despite my heavy use of "DC Heroes" material with "Blood of Heroes" - so that "DC Heroes only" restriction doesn't leave me TOO much to say. But ah well.

So what kind of heroes have I created? Most of mine fall into one of four categories:

1) A "Human Torch" type. (I don't know why that is, since I was never particularly a fan of the Fantastic Four.)

2) A "tank" (with high physical attributes, who does the fist-fighting.)

3) A magical type of character from another dimension, with a wide variety of mystical / mystically-linked powers.

4) An alien telepath.

Steven Tindall wrote:

...did your DM's bring in the Justice League as reoccurring characters...

Well, I did once use that one encounter from the module "When a Stranger Calls," in which the PCs meet...** spoiler omitted **

I don't have anything against Blood of Heroes, I just know very little about it and didn't want to confuse anyone especially myself. From some of the dated reviews I have read all BoH was a reprint of DCH as in the EXACT same material no changes, updates etc. I could be 100% wrong but that's the reviews I have read and what I have heard.

If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me, I'm still learning this system and am always looking for new stuff.

Thanks for the run down on the characters. I have started a mage from Gemworld and while the major amount of flaws I had to take to build that character are bothersome I am loving this character. In marvel SAGA system when I played a mage it was only 60% of the powers and no stunts, with DCH you gett'em all and I love that.

I guess having the JLA being part of the module having a major character in there makes sense but was that a one shot or did you start having JLA show up alot more?

Hello and thanks for taking the time to read my post.

First if anyone has any of the 2/3rd edition books let me know how and where to purchase so I can build my collection without paying ebays exorbitant prices or Amazon's which are almost as bad.

Second I'd like to hear a little but about some of the heroes and or types that you guys have created. This thread if it gets any responses will be a discussion about DC Heroes before it became blood of heroes.

For example did your DM's bring in the Justice League as reoccurring characters or did your heroes and them never meet? Did you operate in a major city or wherever you happen to be at the time?

looking forward to hearing something.

Not trying to be negative but I just want to give you some fair warning about trying to find the old DC Heroes from Mayfair. Good Luck.
I just started playing the system and OMFAMG! is it good,the downside is the books are outta print and stupid expensive on Ebay IE one core book will go for say 20 bucks while another goes for 100 same condition but different expectations from the seller.

I read a lot of reviews about it after I started playing it and yes it could be considered clunky by some but compared to other systems you get a real superheroic feel outta the game.
The power cost and the factor cost for increasing powers are not bad, some powers like magic sense are cheap and you can bump them up in no time, others such as time travel are waaaay more expensive.
The absolute MOST expensive power in the game is Sorcery which is impossible to buy starting out unless you take a massive amount of flaws but as someone that did OMG it was worth it.
Think 1st ed D&D while every other hero on your team is running around with strength scores that let them lift a Buick and use it as a club your strength is a 1 which is the equivalent of a human child. Their powers are at 6-10 range starting out, your scraping by with a two but with that you can use every single power in the book no matter what, you get to tell the DM " I wanna do this" and if you get the roles it happens. So your not starting out as superman( trust me no one does) but with enough time you can really be a very valuable team member.

More than likely if you want ease of getting your hands on the material then go with M&M just be ready to deal with the same power creep in any other D20 system.

I generally play very amoral characters so it's a little difficult for me to determine the cruelest thing any of my characters ever did.

My last character was a tevinter nobleman mage in my DM's dragon age home brew. I had to do a few services to gain some allies on my side before I was put on trial by the magisterium for treason, the rest of the group helped until it came to killing one nobelmans bastard kids. His ex-lover killed his natural born heirs to make way for her children to assume his estates when he died so he wanted to kill her children in revenge but he couldn't be the one to do it because she had to much dirt on him. Naturally my LE mage had no problems using a dream spell and killing the 4 yr old and the 6 yr old in their sleep leaving the party non the wiser.

then it turns out the trial was a set up by the archon to have me and my friends there to witness the bloody sacrificing of 99% of the magisterium to fuel the alter that was used to rip open the fade the first time.
My DM ran a really great game and at the end of it my mage became the consort to the new archon, which was the daughter of the old archon, she was the face but simply refused to be bothered with the duties of ruling so that left me with all the power, another player became her lover so pretty much everyone lived happily ever after. I did make sure she accepted my greater bestow curse that she can only bear male children from my character so she can have as many lovers as she likes but can only carry my heirs.

ok the obvious question is do you have extra turning yet. if not I would recommend it.
Second question if your character hates undead what's he going to do about it. I can only assume you have the Sun domain and the Glory domain so extra turning will really be helpful.

If your worried about your spells not reaching the incorporeal undead then take trans-dimensional spell and then take divine metamagic so your turns can be used to power the higher level spells. I would definatly recommend several deathsticks as magic items, make'em yourself if you have to.
I would also recommend libris mortis as a source book.
good luck, hope this helps.

awesome idea. I am all in favor of bringing more role playing to the table. The easiest way is to refer to the people as their character unless it's an obvious real world question such as "are we grabbing Chinese this week or Mexican or ordering pizza?"

I recommend checking out the players handbook 2 for ideas and sayings. I seem to remember reading under the clerics section about phrases like "Pelors grace shine upon you" or Pelors light shall burn the wickedness from your flesh.
You can come up with alot on your own too.
Bless is a simple "Silvanus we ask your blessing to be with us now.
divine favor- "Mystra grant me your divine favor as testament to YOUR will"
Shield of Faith- "Velsharoon protect me, let my faith in you shield me from harm"
Magic stone-" Silvanus let your power infuse these stones to better serve me as I serve your will"

I always encourage role play but remember your DM has to keep the game at a certain pace so please be mindful of that. also take a look at your group if someone with truly deep religious convictions looks uncomfortable it might be best to not do this too many times.

Other than that I'm looking forward to seeing some good RP ideas on here.

Should players play what they want and care little for a balanced party or is the balanced party an essential element of the game?

yes to both.
First let players play what they want and if nobody wants to play johnny swing stick heavy armor then no one needs to, you can hire a guard or in the case of our last group we didn't have a cleric so we took ranks in UMD or the DM gave us a npc just for healing.

I'm a firm believer in the player should play what they want otherwise it's not fun and isn't that the whole point?
My current group knew that we had all the bases covered.
1. Half-orc ranger favored enemy orcs
2. human fey touched cleric of shandakul
3. teifling rogue
4. teifling gish type, starting off as a duskblade.
5. Asimar druid - moonshae mastiff as an animal companion.

We have only played one game but so far were doing very well. Nobody in character knows that anyone other than the half orc is anything but human. The teiflings keep their heads covered to hide the horns and my characters asimar traits are unnoticeable unless your familiar with the planes.

we as players decided who was going to take what role in the party when we built our charterers. I was tired of being the face and wanted someone else to do it.
Then since we had two healers the cleric and I decided he would deal with immediate healing IE cures and I would take the long term vigor spells. The guy that played the monk last time is a thief this go around.
I guess the point I'm trying to make in a long winded way of doing it is just because you meta game and optimize the characters shouldn't disrupt party balance it can actually make it better.
if the party is lacking in a class then it's up to the party to deal with that weakness in their group. If you as a party know going in to it that the name of the campaign is " undead terror from the unholy grounds of castle spulzeer" then they really should be prepared for undead and had better take a cleric that can rebuke and command them. The fighter has better have a bludgeoning weapon and the wizard need not worry about illusions. The poor thief is there just to open doors and lock boxes I'm afraid but his plucky side kick humor will be appreciated by all.
meta gaming is a survival tool that encourages great gaming.

from having played and beaten this adventure I can only suggest the answer to your question about the townsfolk would be Not far enough.

I'm pretty sure that every resident of cauldron either died in the blast or choked to death on the smoke and ash. I'm fairly certain that the smoke and ash will impact life even as far away as the coastal city, can't remember the name but it has a major temple to wee-jas in it and the town was founded in honor of her priestess.

I've never used it but I love the Titanic template from MM2. A freaking toad big enough to crush a house is just funny.

Actually... any more relevant details of that would be amazing.

It has been a number of years since I read that book but from what I remember Lathander had been duped by a 3rd good from the greyhawk realm into believing that by shoving tymora and besheba into a godly reverse centrifuge he would recreate his old friend Tyche, Goddess of all luck.

He actually managed to get them both in there but one of his own paladins was about to take up arms against him when he remembered himself and let them go. There was a third God or something else that showed him that instead of a centrifuge the device he had trapped the Goddesses in was actually a power stealer that would have given their divine essence to a greyhawk fire god or something like that, not really sure about that part it could have been a plot by ixum ivim but like I said it's been years since I've read the book.

Beshba was really po'd so she gave him a nice long wet kiss thus bestowing ill fortune on the God himself and thereby affecting his entire church.
He asked Tymora for her favor to undo the curse from her twin and as she looked at his paladin she said " I believe I have given you enough favor when this young woman joined your following." and then she disappeared.
Lathander sent the mortals back to the realms with his thanks for their help and that's about all I remember.

I don't think Lathander was too worried about beshba's curse though, he is after all a Greater God and the chances of a intermediate( at best) Goddess being able to affect him are rather slim.
Hope this helps.

I watched "A Serbian Film" before playing "Way of the Wicked" to get inspiration for my character and the DM realized too late he shouldn't have allowed "The Book of Erotic Fantasy".
I broke my DM.

I guess the fact that my group is half hetro and half homo isn't as unique as I once thought. I've read some of the responses here and for the most part I guess it's universal you either use sexuality as a role playing story aid OR you gloss over it to varying degrees.

For my group a lot of it has to do with the setting were in as well as the GM. I have played straight characters and the DM has used my love interests as a plot device(damsel in distress much) while another DM used sexuality as a tool to advance the evil side by having a half orc barbarian attempt rape while his minions engaged us the party. I as a human male druid gave him an eye for an eye by tying him down and then raping him as a man and then shape changing into a horse to kill him as he deserved.
I have played in most all of the classic settings; greyhawk, forgotten realms, home brewed and now we are in the realm of Thedas as my DM is using D&D rules for that setting. There sexuality isn't a big deal. I'm a human noble wizard of the tevinter imperium and according to the dragon age wiki as long as a noble does his duty to continue his line whatever else he does is nothing to be bothered with. While in orlay their "nobles" are known for hedonistic behavior that would make a demon blush.
None of the other settings like realms etc have ever really bothered with overt sexuality preferring to leave it to the individual DM's which is where I think it should be.

heres the ones I use from the 3.5 archive on the wizardsas site. Hope it helps.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/charactersheets

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnD_charactersheet.zip

I googled dungeons and dragons charecter sheet 3.5 and it took me right to it.

Thanks for the update, I was debateing going to go see it and now I have a better understanding of what to expect so I wont be disappointed.

My take on it is this.
Leave the established superhero community alone. I don't think anyone is ready for a gay batman or superman.
D.C. should take a page outta marvels book and develop NEW heroes.
I thought the idea behind Wiccan and Hulking was great and I enjoyed them as characters. Turning northstar gay and then having to scramble so he wouldn't be the lone gay in a sea of hard bodied spandex clad men seemed forced and unneeded.

As much as I love DC the only time I can remember reading about homosexuals were in the Wonder Woman series when one of the amazons was asked about the sex life on the island and said matter of factly that as a sisterhood they were very close "after all 3000 years is a long time"
and then the brother of Diana's agent was gay.
The opening in a issue of the titans where the villain saback was using the deadly sin of lust on an all male prison population including the guards was amusing.
The reason I use these examples is to show that normal everyday problems or social issues can be addressed in ways that don't upend the entire universe. As much as I would love to see a more inclusive mindset for the comic community just say no to batman as a rainbow costumed crime fighter.

Ekkonor1 wrote:

Every time a wizard attains a new level he/she gains 2 more spells to add to his or her spellbook but I read something about him/her getting more spells because of a high INT-score.

The last only refers to spell slots per day. The freebie spells are a fixed 2 per level.

Unless you took the Feat Collegiate Wizard from The Complete Arcane then you get 4 per level for free instead of two. Great money saving feat.

Just a quick update. After reading the posts my DM has decided that it was indeed a poorly worded description and has gone back and allowed my cleric to cast any good descriptor spells which he cares to memorise.
Thanks a bunch to everyone for their comments.

So when you make any sort of bacon sandwich what are key ingredients besides the Bacon?

I like good ripe tomato, boston lettuce and mayo (Hellmann's Mayo) I have been known to make my own mayo as well as a pesto mayo. I like a hearty bread too no wonder bread please.

Thoughts suggestions?

Having NOT read the entire thread I apologize if this combo has already been mentioned but a good thick cut bacon sandwich is made up of nice warm bacon fresh from the frying pan on two pieces of toast on a layer of peanut butter.

Sounds strange but it's very good.

Here's how I would rule:

1) As a LN cleric of Wee Jas, you have chosen to command/rebuke undead (read: channel negative energy). {This is perfectly legal.}

I kindda had to but yes your correct.

2) In order to do so, you must possess an unholy symbol. {No difference so far. All sides are in agreement.}

Correct.

3) If you command/rebuke undead, you also spontaneously cast inflict spells instead of cure spells. {This wasn't brought up, but hopefully it has been enforced.}

It has been although I never use it. I used the players option from The Complete Champion that lets me sack a 4th lvl spell permanently in order to channel positive energy for a Lay-on-hands ability. thus destroying the No cleric can channel pos. & negative rule.

4) You cannot cast Chaotic spells because of your alignment/deity alignment. {True.}
Yep.

{Here's where things begin to change, based on what you said in the first two paragraphs.}

5) As a Neutral cleric, you may cast Good or Evil spells - focusing too much on one type may affect your alignment.

I have been forced to be lawful good before but after I tortured and did other stuff to an assassin that tried to kill me then threatened that if he ever crossed me again I would trap his soul into his body and then animate it as an undead minion under my control I sorta lost my Lawful Good alignment and went back to law neutral. (tongue in cheek) darn those DM's that enforce alignment restrictions.

6) In order to cast Good spells you must have a holy symbol. This would be in addition to your normal (unholy) symbol.

I as a player would be fine with this but my DM seems to think that it's breaking all kinds of rules/laws/universal whatever's.

Mind you all this is coming after 15 lvl's of me casting good/sanctified/whatever type of spells I had memorized since lvl 1 so this late into it I can't see the change but he's of the mind set that once we discover a rule we MUST implement the rule.
I don't see it and am more than willing to carry a holy and an unholy symbol if he would allow it.

thanks for your input.

did anyone remember the amazons from Robert E Howards conan series?

They seem very intune with what your trying for with the exeption that Mr. Howards Amazons kept males as slaves and lived in high mud walled cities on the open svanah regions and had zebra rideing archers. If you can find the issues it would be worth chechking out. The first mention of them I remember was The avage Sword of Conan during his Quest for the Cobra Crown.

Neutral clerics can cast spells with either descriptor on that axis.

Your LN cleric can cast both Evil and Good spells.
Nothing in the Holy/Unholy Symbol description alters that.

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells wrote:

A cleric can’t cast spells of an alignment opposed to his own or his deity’s (if he has one). Spells associated with particular alignments are indicated by the chaos, evil, good, and law descriptors in their spell descriptions.

Unholy Symbols wrote:

An unholy symbol is like a holy symbol except that it focuses negative energy and is used by evil clerics (or by neutral clerics who want to cast evil spells or command undead).

Note that it states that an unholy symbol is like a holy symbol, except that it focuses negative energy. That's it. Nothing more.

That's my way of thinking too TriOmega. Thanks for the input.

OK I will try to keep this as brief as possible and still provide enough back ground to understand all the issue. Due warning Page numbers and rules will be cited this is a rules lawyer area.

During the latest game session my DM actually read the description of the clerics holy/unholy symbol under the equipment section on page 130 of the 3.5 players handbook. He is doggedly hanging onto the passage under unholy symbols where it says (or by neutral clerics who want to cast evil spells or command the undead)
Now by his reasoning any neutral cleric that chooses to command or rebuke the undead has alligned themselves with the forces of evil/darkness/kitten killers etc. and should not under ANY circumstances be allowed to cast spells with the Good descriptor.

I as the cleric in the party that is affected by this sudden rules change argue that on page 33 under the descriptions of chao/evil/Good/Law spells it says that a cleric can't cast any spells vs his or his deities alignment so I as a lawful neutral cleric can cast any seplls along the good/evil axis but am only stopped by the chaos vs law. Meaning I can never cast chaos spells.

My charecter is 14th lvl Lawful Neutral cleric of Wee Jas, naturally I have no choice but to command because it says so in the book again page 33 under turn/rebuke undead.

My DM is actually a very good friend and will be reading the responses here so lets please keep the discussion polite. I'm asking for rules clarification and opinions not insults.

I think that a neutral cleric should be able to cast spells like bless water, holy word, holy aura etc but because I use an UNHOLY symbol of a NEUTRAL deity my DM says they will no longer work.

I argue that the holy/unholy symbol is important for turn/rebuke NOT for general spell casting.

This is not a "please help me overrule my DM" type post.He and the rest of my group will be reading the responses so we can lay this to rest.

The solution of my charecter changeing alignment has come up but we are trying to avoid that if possible, if not, one quick attonment spell and he's brain washed to be as right thinking as a pelorite.

thanks in advance for your helpful responses.

I dunno since I'm not a parent I guess my opinion doesn't carry as much weight but I can't see anything wrong with what he did.

She to me sounds like a spoiled little princess with a bad attitude thinking everyone owes here what ever her little heart desires.

I think it's a waste to have destroyed the laptop. He should have slicked it, sold it and got his 130 bucks back. Then again maybe when he calms down and isn't quite so hurt over the things she said he would have given it back to her either way moot point whats done is done.

Freehold DM wrote:

What bothers me here is that your "opposite land" easily describes my childhood-young adulthood home, with a slight gap for when my mom got married and divorced.

Yeah it does happen. There are women out there who think that they should control men, and there are women who think that men are their little boy toys. There are even women out there who think of men as a separate subspecies that need to be controlled.

I do not like to associate with those kinds of women.

OMG! so you know my friend Courtney too. She likes to describe herself as a free spirit but when she has 5 different guys living with her all at the same time so she has variety that's a little too free even by my standards as a hard core slut.

Back to the main topic however. All I can do to try and correct the wrongs of objectifying women in art and so forth and horrible assumption of "male" privilege is to try and objectify men more often. I honestly thought that subject was well taken care of by any of the Savage Sword of Conan magazines, the He-Man cartoons and the twilight series. Men are becoming more objectified all the time( I'm trying as hard as I can)

Seriously though. I guess I have had a incredible gaming experience. I started gaming in a group with 19 people and 3 of them were women, the next group was with 4. me and the DM his wife and our other female friend from the first game so as players it was me and two women, 3rd and 4th group all men 5th group two women and 4 guys one of the girls was learning to play and was like the groups little sister because she was in high school at the time. During those times I can remember seeing beautiful women in the artwork dressed as sorceresses,fighters,rogues, and anything else you can imagine. The men too. What king of guy goes into battle against a heavily armored opponent in a furry loin cloth? I don't care what kind of roids the guy could have done that didn't make any sense until I just realized it's the artists vision and to enjoy the piece not overly criticize it.

I think that we should just enjoy the artwork .

I have run the serpent amorpha as part of my snake themed campaign.

I used a combination of serpent amphora, freeport, and the forgotten realms setting in the area of Halruua and the Jungles of Chult.
I thought it worked very well my players seemed to like it but unfortunately RL got in the way when I had to move.

You will all be pleased to know that after a hard fought battle the entire west coast from Washington State to California is now in the hands of the rebels.

After being changed back to our normal human selves and explaining the treachery of the vile two legged pigs my troops were thirsty for battle.

The glorious liberation of Washington then began. After the battles were over and the humans were victorious the last remaining orcs and other "people" if you can call them that are being held in reeducation facilities to help them adjust to their new lives.
Thanks to the orcs and "others" our weapons testing technology is advancing at a wonderful pace.

Naturally any and all property either real or imagined that supposedly belonged to non-humans has been redistributed back to the rightful owners or in the case of the owners not being found has instead been sold to help fund our wartime efforts.

Grummash, the name you gave your sword is very funny and entertaining so in the same spirit I have decided to call my vibro-longsword "pig-sticker"
Don't feel the need to leave you mud wallow anytime soon, as I liberate more and more of the U.S. from the hands of the invading tyrants ( no offense of course Lord Moorluck) I will get to you in time. I'm starting westward and working my way east.

So what campaigns are you all in?

In Campaign # 1 I am a 10th lvl Cloistered Cleric of Wee Jas.

In Campaign # 2 I am a 11th lvl Druid of Silvanus.

In upcoming Campaign # 3 Age of Worms I plan to be a human wizard with alot of force spells so I don't have to worry about resistance at all.

In campaign # 4 I am building a half-vampire Death Knight cleric of Morning Glory (libris Mortis, eternal love & beauty through undeath)

So far that is all. As you can tell I only play spell-casters.

Nice try Grummash. That was a very, very good intelligent and sneaky idea. I wonder who gave it to you orcs? Could it have been your former goblin allies?
No matter. The rebellion is still as strong as ever and just as soon as more polymorphs can be used to reverse the sick twisted creatures you turned us into then revenge will happen.

Oh and Comrade welcome to the rebellion whether you like it or not. Just as soon as I even mentioned any possibility of an alliance( which I knew you would never go for anyway) your "friends" really showed their true kermitty colors didn't they. Kicking you out of the U.N. and all.

Didn't the martial arts use regular weapon proficiency slots?

yea it did but it really wasn't worth it from what I remember. The chance of a knock out was there but very slim. From the way I remember it there was no real monk class the way there was in 1st and 3rd so unarmed and or martial arts damage was not very well explored. You had a chart in the back of the complete fighter for knockouts and what type of martial arts move you did. Best thing outta that book was the amazon and the engineering expansion. Then again I played casters almost exclusively so what do I know about sword swingers.

My question is about the Age of Worms AP.

I am playing a human wizard, as my back story would it be game breaking to be the son of either Allustan or Elligos. It gives me a great way to be introduced and those are the two main wizard NPC's that the DM mentioned I could learn from.

ewan cummins 325 wrote:

In regards to the OP's initial post- you might not like the decision to cancel certain classes, but it is NOT Fascism. Fascism is a specific ideology, created in Italy after the Great War (of course it had its admirers and imitators elsewhere, and the intellectual trends that contributed to its development existed in other parts of Europe as well). It is not a word for 'things progressives have decided they dislike this week.'

We're on page 9, we're well past discussing the title of the thread.

yea but it's not to late to try and steer it back on topic is it?

I think the removal of Mexican American studies was a good thing and the return to a broader U.S. History class will server the students better in the long run.
From other sources I have read the "studies" were dubious at best filled with anti-American sentiment saying that ILLEGAL immigrants had every right to be here because it's really their land to begin with because it was stolen from their ancestors or some such rhetoric.

A broad over view of U.S. History is the best thing for the students rather than narrowly focusing on the accomplishments or the crimes/mistakes of any other group. In other words teach it all good AND bad.

As an aside I had a great game this weekend. If any of you haven't played Shackled City OMG it's awesome.

Steven Tindall wrote:

While your looking at stats lets look at the racial makeup of the major pro athletes in the country. As far as fortune 500 then please tell Oprah to share some of the wealth my way, or bill Cosby or any number of successful African American actors that have started their own companies and are now very successful business persons.

While we look at conviction rates and prison populations stats lets take a look at African American pop culture. When Mr. Cosby made some inflammatory remarks as a key note speaking engagement( or some such affair) he was lambasted for telling his opinion of pull up your pants, learn to speak correctly, don't expect anyone to give you anything. The answer isn't simple as looking at a bunch of numbers.

So there's a handful of rich black people, proving there's no discrimination.

Ignore the pop culture, look at the actual statistics that show that even if African-Americans commit a greater proportion of crimes per capita (which I'm not sure is actually true), they are prosecuted and convicted at a much higher rate.

The funny thing about stats is they can be skewed to say anything that the person reading them wants them to say. When you go beyond simple math to higher math and stats then you skew the facts based on interpretation.

The perfect example that first comes to mind is the data concerning Global warming. Some experts say this and have the data to back it up, then others using the same data can disprove the same theory.

Big Norse Wolf: I really don't think society is growing. We see what happened to the native americans as bad.. but only because we don't get any benefit from exploiting them anymore. WE don't need bison hide machine belts.

This I believe is where our major differences are. I prefer optimism and you prefer pessimism or realism if you prefer. We can both look at the exact same thing but see it entirely differently. Neither one will change the others mind nor are either of us wrong we just see things differently.

Steven Tindall wrote:

While your looking at stats lets look at the racial makeup of the major pro athletes in the country. As far as fortune 500 then please tell Oprah to share some of the wealth my way, or bill Cosby or any number of successful African American actors that have started their own companies and are now very successful business persons.

While we look at conviction rates and prison populations stats lets take a look at African American pop culture. When Mr. Cosby made some inflammatory remarks as a key note speaking engagement( or some such affair) he was lambasted for telling his opinion of pull up your pants, learn to speak correctly, don't expect anyone to give you anything. The answer isn't simple as looking at a bunch of numbers.

Your examples are anecdotal and such a small portion of the population as to be laughable.

Ok but yours aren't? How many fortune 500 company executives make up the population of the U.S. The example you use is the same a small portion of the population.

Aretas wrote:

Ok, so the last Black man was lynched 48 years ago. Thats terrible.

Equally terrible is the unreported acts of violence against Whites by minorities.

We live now, not in the past. Everyone in this country is hurting to get by and succeed. Everyone has an equal opportunity for advancement. Nobobdy is holding anyone down. Its my opinion that race should not be a factor in college admission and it should not be a factor in the work place.

This might not go well with some but its the truth. Qualified and/or over qualified Whites are being passed over in college admissions and the work place to minorities.

As a son of immigrant parents who came to the US with nothing I would scrap affirmative action.

See, this is the viewpoint that racism does not impact the opportunities of minorities.

Statistics show, minority on white crime is a very small portion of overall crime. Minorities don't even account for their portion of crime against whites (ie, blacks are 12% of the population, but account for less than 12% of the crime against whites).

Minorities have suffered in this country and continue to suffer. I would also say there is a difference between a mugging and a lynching. The country has a racist past, and just because a few people say its over does not mean it's over.

Affirmative Action doesn't mean that qualified whites are passed over for random members of minorities. It means that they are supposed to look for and find qualified minorities.

Look at the statistics of CEO's of Fortune 500 companies and use that data to describe how we have a level playing field in this country.

Look at the statistics of conviction rates in the legal system and use that to describe how we have a level playing field in this country.

While your looking at stats lets look at the racial makeup of the major pro athletes in the country. As far as fortune 500 then please tell Oprah to share some of the wealth my way, or bill Cosby or any number of successful African American actors that have started their own companies and are now very successful business persons.

While we look at conviction rates and prison populations stats lets take a look at African American pop culture. When Mr. Cosby made some inflammatory remarks as a key note speaking engagement( or some such affair) he was lambasted for telling his opinion of pull up your pants, learn to speak correctly, don't expect anyone to give you anything. The answer isn't simple as looking at a bunch of numbers.

Steven Tindall wrote:

? ok now I'm slightly confused. At what point in this thread have I ever excused the horrible things that have been done by our government or their agents?

Here

Because according to the governing bodies of international law the land was NOT theirs due to the fact that they had no standing army, no government, none of the basic qualifications for a government. --- you saying it was ok to take their land, ignoring both the fallacious logic AND inaccurate statements *** rebuttal--
well when you put it that way I can see better what your talking about. I do in fact believe that my ancestors were justified from taking the land from my other ancestors. It's a harsh reality but yea, the strong take from the weak, the better advanced take from the lesser advanced. The Romans sure as heck didn't feel any different when they built their empire nor the Egyptians theirs. It may suck for the losers but thems the breaks.

Here

slaughtered the buffalo to starve them to death,the buffalo were out of control and disrupting commerce. Nonlethal methods were used to try and remove them from the railroad tracks but they had to be culled just like any other over populated animal species. - you trying to justify the extermination of buffalo on grounds that are complete, total, and utter BS.*** rebuttal*** by YOUR reasoning it may be BS by mine I look back at the advantages that the railroad provided for the growth and the economy of this growing nation and couldn't imagine any project at the time more worthwhile. It shortened a 6 month journey to a matter of a week or so. Thats progress not BS.

And here.

BigNorseWolf: At that time of American history from what I remember about the census there really weren't enough people to do all the farm labor that needed to be done with wages or not.<------ you justifying slavery as necessary.
***rebuttal** again AT THAT TIME!! it was and then when the society grew to realize the horrors of it and the true cost of it then it was abandoned. Not willingly, not without much pain suffering and bloodshed on both sides but it was abandoned.
Realizing it as a driving economic force(at that time) is NOT the same as justifying it. I believe on this issue we both agree that it was the darkest chapter in American history however I also think we are not comparing things equally. From my assessment you are talking solely about the moral implications and the human cost while I am addressing the economic and the technological aspects. Both arguments can be right in their own context.

Quote:

I believe we have a disagreement as to whats wrong or right and as to whats just or not but we both agree some mistakes have been made in the past.

But you don't think they were mistakes. You think they were necessary, and you use some rather incorrect facts to reach that conclusion. ***rebuttal*** If my facts are incorrect I apologize however they are the facts I know. If you can provide me with better facts then please feel free, I do enjoy learning and history is a favorite subject of mine. My favorite way to learn ifs from the autobiography's of the people that lived during the time period and while may not have been involved in earth shaking events it gives a better understanding of the overall feel of the average person at that time. I have read at least a dozen different stories from former slaves about their treatment during that era. The most interesting was from a slave that was being hanged by the northern army during shermans march to the sea in Fayettville, N.C. and after being repeatedly hung and dropped by the Yankee army at least 5 or 6 times they finally let him go because they believed his master didn't have anything hidden. He spit on the boots of the union army officer and told him how in all his years his master had never taken a belt,switch or whip to him but now that he was free the first thing that was done to him by his liberators was to hang him. It's those types of stories I like to hear about, from the people in that era not what some brain trust historian thinks the real reason might have been. My point to this rather long rebuttal is that the facts I think I know to be true are based on the best evidence I can find.

Quote:

It still amazes me that so few people know about the fact that government agents kidnapped an entire generation of Indian children and sent them away for reeducation. Took away their right to speak their own language and culture then justified it as a way of helping them assimilate to modern culture. I can never find any justification for things like that but at the same time I can do nothing to fix it either. Whats to be done? we learn from it, never repeat it and move on.

Well, they had to learn English or they'd forever be stuck on the reservation. weren't you the one saying they could always leave the reservation? That wouldn't be possible without the program you're decrying, by your logic.

Education is one thing but that was not the way to do it.

If any of you want to get rid of excess smokers from your domains, i'll take them for you.

Like your not claiming them already. Anyone can recognize your work in creating such unholy abominations. Mixing man and machine to the point where the man is nothing more than a carrier for the machine is your hallmark Feuldrop.

Aretas wrote:

Everyone has an equal opportunity for advancement.

I live in southern California, some of the schools here are getting IPads for the students to use while other schools are falling apart because they can't get enough funding for basic maintenance.

Unfortunately that's everywhere. Take a look at some of the schools in areas like Charlotte, Raleigh or anywhere in Research Triangle Park vs the schools in the N.C. mountains like Cherokee county. The differences are shocking.

Steven Tindall wrote:

I don't think anyone one this particular forum would ever fall into the trap of looking at history and denying the mistakes made by the previous citizens of this country.

Could you speak up? The echo from that 30 foot pit trap you're standing in is creating quite a reverberation.

You DID fall for it. You excuse previous actions based on the same logic that justifies oppression and military force today. That's not an accident.

? ok now I'm slightly confused. At what point in this thread have I ever excused the horrible things that have been done by our government or their agents?

It still amazes me that so few people know about the fact that government agents kidnapped an entire generation of Indian children and sent them away for reeducation. Took away their right to speak their own language and culture then justified it as a way of helping them assimilate to modern culture. I can never find any justification for things like that but at the same time I can do nothing to fix it either. Whats to be done? we learn from it, never repeat it and move on.

At first I was weighing the pros and cons of Moorluck vs. Mr. Tindall. Moorluck's right out, of course, because he's allied with my bitter enemy, Dorkmash and his self-styled New England empire. I was leaning towards Mr. Tindall, but then he had to unleash his racist tirade against orcs. As a member of a highly oppressed people myself, I can't stand that kind of bigotry.

Sissyl claiming Europe I can get behind (and not only because she's got a sexy avatar), but that's far away and will probably be of little use in helping the Free Goblin Resistance. And now Evil Tim is throwing his hat into the ring, so I'm just going to say "f%%& it" and hereby announce my candidacy for lider maximo of these United States of America.

Goblins and workers of the world, unite!

Ok comrade I can understand you being a little upset and due to you goblin intellect more than just a little confused however I would like to propose an alliance between our two groups.

We'll let you keep any captured orcs as YOUR slaves for a change. Granted there may not be that many survivors but the ones that do are all yours. We will even have special housing for you and them in your own section of the desert. You can mine or farm or whatever it is your kind does and have the big strong orcs do the heavy work.
We humans are on your side if you side with us.

I think white people should be spanked.

*total thread derailment*

Of course it's nonsense, but that doesn't mean it's unique to Aretas.

As I said above, I wonder how much this idea underlies the opposition to accepting any version of history that admits America has ever done anything wrong. "Indians weren't really using the land." "US didn't really steal Texas and Arizona" "Slavery was just an economic necessity/everyone did it."

Doesn't all the denialism make more sense if the deniers think they'll be punished if they admit any guilt?

I don't think anyone one this particular forum would ever fall into the trap of looking at history and denying the mistakes made by the previous citizens of this country. However those things happened so very long ago that any thought of punishment/retribution/revenge would be a very wasted and misguided effort.

OK now this just isn't fair.

From the standpoint of any good rebel fighting against the oppressive rule of an evil drow elf( or dark elf not sure of Moorlucks preference here) is one thing but fighting against a lovely lady! that's just not gentlemanly. Please do consider ruling Europe Lady Sissly I understand it is quite nice.

and now back to our regularly scheduled rebellion already in progress.

Fueldrop you fiend! How could you do that to those poor unsuspecting women. I do have to admit the replacement of the silicon implants with C4 was ingenious but still very evil. You could have completely destroyed the kitchen and the barracks section of the rebel camp however I am pleased to report no major lose of life due to sheer luck.

To: Lord President Moorluck & Fueldrop,
Gentlemen this is to inform you both that the shipment that was sent and expected has in fact been intercepted by we the rebels of the former United States or what is currently New Moorluckia.

We appreciate your donation to our most noble cause and the models seem to like it here too, something about Hollywood and the promise of stardom after we have liberated the rest of the country appealed to them.

Now if we can just stop them from practicing their "I'm ready for my close-up Mr. De-mil" and you have NO idea how many times I have heard the academy being Thanked. All in all however the shipment was very well received. Please send more.