You know, all that annoying adventuring gear that weights a ton, but that noone (especially those with just 10ish strength) want to carry around, and that isn't really required for anything.
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Beat them with soap stuffed into stockings, Full Metal Jacket style!
And, I note that not many characters buy soap, either, which is a shame. They make it 1 copper for a reason, filthy people.
You know, all that annoying adventuring gear that weights a ton, but that noone (especially those with just 10ish strength) want to carry around, and that isn't really required for anything.
Ohh sleeping outside in the elements without protection gee all the neat diseases parasites and illnesses in the book which ones should I have you test for in this environment.
I like Dragonsong's idea. I'd also make sure the PCs end up in unfriendly environments of the really hot and really cold sorts, just to use the rules for hypothermia, heat exhaustion, and whatnot. I'd even be sadistic and ask if they've got waterskins while in the desert while I was at it :)
Start with something small (the first night)
Like just not getting any sleep, meaning exhausted
the next day.
I was really annoyed at the start of king maker, when I spent tons of loot on getting loads of wilderness survival stuff and rations (also a mule to carry it all) and then the GM handed us stuff as well.
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...nothing. Because I find messing with that stuff boring.
I like for folks to have it covered. Covered could be endure elements, campfire bead and gear, rope trick, instant fortress and the like.
You know, all that annoying adventuring gear that weights a ton, but that noone (especially those with just 10ish strength) want to carry around, and that isn't really required for anything.
I've not had this happen at my table; we always make sure we have the basics covered.
I might suggest having them make fort saves or be fatigued for a day for not being able to sleep well without a bedroll. There are rules for freezing to death from the cold.
A lot of mundane gear can be replaced with magic, but replacing it all takes a lot of resources. Sometimes you need a couple of sacks or a length of rope. There is a reason that most adventurers drag all that stuff around.
If you only have a 10 strength and don't want to be weighed down with a suit of cold weather gear and a winter blanket, you better be ready to dedicate one of your spells to endure elements.
Floating disk can carry a lot of weight, but is only 3' across. There is a limit to how many loose coins you can pile on it. Add a number of sacks, and you are pulling a lot more loot out of the dungeon.
Some mundane gear is more important then others. The random stuff -can- be useful, and at the very least can add a lot of flavor, which is important for a roleplaying game.
I was really annoyed at the start of king maker, when I spent tons of loot on getting loads of wilderness survival stuff and rations (also a mule to carry it all) and then the GM handed us stuff as well.
Tell me about it. I take the Pioneer campaign trait on my low strength witch, so I can carry my stuff and can move around faster in battle. Mostly to carry stuff though, since I usually own a wide assortment of crap that makes sense, weights alot and would put me over my heavy weigth score :)
And then before we even leave the starting camp, we get to kill a couple of bandits, who just happen to have enough horses with them so that everyone of us gets one. Yay.
At least I could convince my GM that he'd make my trait horse combat trained, but it was still somewhat annoying.
Thanks for the advice on how to handle it, you gave me some ideas there.
Depends on the campaign. If its urban, or located near a town, have the PC's pay the appropriate Cost of Living/Lifestyle cost for a month, and dont worry about sundries like this.
If its a wilderness campaign at low level? A lot more relevant. Some spells make it less so.
They don't clean themselves? Give them penalties to diplomacy.
They don't sleep on anything they're used to? Make them roll a fortitude save, if they fail penalize their movement by 5 for have issues with their back.
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Nothing. Some people, myself included, find lots of compulsive inventory management interesting and like to know every candle and bit of rope in their inventory. Some people are bored silly and don't care. There's no reason these two sorts of players cannot coexist.
For the latter, forcing them to detail their possessions adds nothing to the game. So as long as they throw down fifty gold on an "Adventurer's Kit" or some other suitably generic and vague bag of equipment I assume they have basic needs covered.
And then the former still get that perverse thrill when they notice they need a whistle or something and happened to have one written on their character sheet.
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That's not something I'm interested in, either. Maybe if the campaign took place at the North Pole or something, but otherwise I don't care.
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They don't clean themselves? Give them penalties to diplomacy.
They don't sleep on anything they're used to? Make them roll a fortitude save, if they fail penalize their movement by 5 for have issues with their back.
The only problem with that is that sleeping in full plate doesn't even reduce movement peed for crying out loud and its not hard to find a relatively soft spot on the ground without something poking in your back, just ask any boy scout.
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Having slept rough on the ground with nothing I'd say 1d4 points of cold subdual damage would be in order (probably none in the summer, 1d4 spring/autumn 1d8 in winter) Can be negated with a DC 15 survival check.
For some reason I tend to buy only a winter blanket as it wieghs lesss than a bedroll.
If not for encumbrance I would not bother 'bout that stuff, it costs nothing and adventurers can be expected to have that stuff. Make it a standard pack for that issue (-> if the character says "hey, this situation can be solved totally by a simple blanket" and blankets are standard pack, he can, other stuff needs to be mentioned)
If for encumbrance, yeah, make that an issue. Especially with Halfling Dervish Dance STR 5 Fighters.
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Conan never went shopping and the closer to that your PCs get the more fun the game is.
Depends on the players, some folks like shopping IRL and in the game.
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It is (like so many things) a campaign flavor thing, not a right or wrong thing. If you are playing a wilderness exploration themed adventure, your players should be expected to handle such things, and I would certainly penalize one who didn't. However, bedrolls and the like are an unnecessary hindrance to game flow in action or intrigue based adventures. In the former, the characters want to focus on fighting, not sleeping, so emphasizing sleeping will put them to sleep in the real world. In the latter case the players want the maximum RPing time they can have, and what time are the characters RPing the least? When they're asleep on their comfy bedroll.
It's a conscious choice you need to make as GM (again, like so many things).
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Our group uses something referred to at the Standard Adventurers Kit sold in most shops. It contain pack, bedroll, waterskin, some other odds and sods as well as X gp in random living essentials. If they want a razor or a simple mirror, it is in there.
They can pay for it and it covers a great deal of the basics.
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Fatigued.
If unpleasant conditions, worse.
You know, all that annoying adventuring gear that weights a ton, but that noone (especially those with just 10ish strength) want to carry around, and that isn't really required for anything.
The level of book keeping and realism also varies by GM. I normally buy it as a player, or at least some of it, but I have never been penalized for not having it. The GM's I have played under have never called for a thunderstorm while we were camping so it has never mattered. If I did play in such a game I would always get a mule or get the strong guy in the party to carry some of my stuff until I can get bag of holding or a handy haversack.
I would ask the group do they prefer to play that way or not. There are things that annoy you in the game from a character perspective, and things that annoy people(the players). Ability damage annoys my character as an example. Having to track a bunch of things would annoy me if they don't really matter.
PS:I did not even know soap was on the equipment list. I will start to get that now.
On other notes. Most of the spell casters use prestidi-whats-it to keep their clothes insect free and their skin washed with the faint scent of lavender. Rest of us use rivers and inns when available. No bedroll, well... cloak will work in a pinch, but it is never a good sleep for them. After awhile however you get used to it barring poor weather conditions.
Depends on the setting and situation really.
Fatigued.
If unpleasant conditions, worse.
I really don't know what people think a "bed roll" is giving you that sleeping on the ground without one would give you such penalties. It's not an inflatable mattress or a space-age cocoon sleeping bag. It's a bedroll - its basically your comforter doubled over and sewn up the side to leave a hole in the top. You are still sleeping on the ground with every single lump and hardness implied thereby.
The level of book keeping and realism also varies by GM. I normally buy it as a player, or at least some of it, but I have never been penalized for not having it. The GM's I have played under have never called for a thunderstorm while we were camping so it has never mattered. If I did play in such a game I would always get a mule or get the strong guy in the party to carry some of my stuff until I can get bag of holding or a handy haversack.You know, all that annoying adventuring gear that weights a ton, but that noone (especially those with just 10ish strength) want to carry around, and that isn't really required for anything.
A bedroll isn't a tent either. If it rains while you are doing your heroic backpacking gig and you bought the standard adventuring kit, you are SOL and wet.
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Not let them get a full nights rest. Unless the environment is perfect. Pleasantly warm on lush grass etc.
But I would just talk to the players explain you are planing to run a more "realistic" game where you will take into account things like bedrolls and stuff, which will typically be required to get a full nights rest. The casters should at the very least get them then. The rest will if you use rules for exhaustion etc.
You are still sleeping on the ground with every single lump and hardness implied thereby.
Its not that the ground is lumpy its that the the ground is freaking COLD.
Unless you manage to find some loose dirt, peat, moss, or a really nice bed of grass, what you have is your 200 pound, 98.6 degree body in contact with a 70 degree billion ton piece of rock. laws of thermodynamics being what they are, it means heat gets transferred from you to the rock, and you really can't heat the rock up. In other words it sucks the heat right out of you. While it seems silly, the amount of insulation a blanket provides really does cut down on the transfer quite a bit. (newspapers and cardboard are also oddly effective at this)
You are still sleeping on the ground with every single lump and hardness implied thereby.Its not that the ground is lumpy its that the the ground is freaking COLD.
Unless you manage to find some loose dirt, peat, moss, or a really nice bed of grass, what you have is your 200 pound, 98.6 degree body in contact with a 70 degree billion ton piece of rock. laws of thermodynamics being what they are, it means heat gets transferred from you to the rock, and you really can't heat the rock up. In other words it sucks the heat right out of you. While it seems silly, the amount of insulation a blanket provides really does cut down on the transfer quite a bit. (newspapers and cardboard are also oddly effective at this)
But there is no need for a bedroll. You could just collect whatever and sleep on it. Isn't like your not hauling around in a ton of clothing.
I always take that stuff, I haven't really had a problem with players not taking it either.
I personally always take a bedroll, blanket, sometimes a tent, sometimes not. I get an adventurer's sash so I can drop some load as a move action. Before that, I would always keep track of where my gear was, and drop the backpack as needed.
But there is no need for a bedroll. You could just collect whatever and sleep on it. Isn't like your not hauling around in a ton of clothing.
well, that's why i mentioned a survival check to negate it: you gather up some ferns or what have you and make a bed.
You could probably negate it with a fort save too and "tough it out".
A cloak (if you have one) will work at least for anything but a really bad winter. I used to use a big wool cloak i got from the ren fair when i wanted to hike light. (it was also great for wildlife observation , since it breaks up your shape) I don't think that a spare set or two of clothes would really help much though.
I never have this problem, I always give my characters the basics: Backpack, Bedroll, Sack, Flint and Tinder(IF i have spark, skip this), belt pouch for potions, grappling hook, silk rope, and trail rations.
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I usually pick up the bedroll, chalk, waterskin stuff just because it feels right, but I don't get bothered when others don't and choose to just take it for granted that the usual necessities are taken care of. Unless it's Dark Sun or something that hinges on survival skills and supply management...
Even then inventory management can get taken too far if one doesn't draw a line somewhere.
GM: You stand before the entrance of Bonestorm Castle. Distant thunder rolls across the steel gray skies overhead as the yawning portal beckons.
Paladin: Alright, let's go!
GM: Before we get started, has everyone made potty?
Paladin: This morning.
Rogue: Did it about an hour ago.
Barbarian: Taking care of it now!
Wizard: It's been a couple of days...
Paladin: Really?
Wizard: It's been a couple of bad rolls. It's no big deal, let's just go in.
GM:
Personally I'd rather leave that level of detail to GURPS.
I never have this problem, I always give my characters the basics: Backpack, Bedroll, Sack, Flint and Tinder(IF i have spark, skip this), belt pouch for potions, grappling hook, silk rope, and trail rations.
Ditto. We have a standard "Adventuring Kit" that we hand wave. If a player asks if they have something I determine if its in there or not. Basically I assume that the PCs are semirealistic and wouldnt go out into the wild or dangerous situations without certain things. Even low WIS or INT wouldnt go out, because the rest of the party wouldn't let them.
For the most part my group handwaves it. For instance I spent a good deal of time picking out gear for the start of my kingmaker game, and ended up disappointed because the dm completely handwaved any kind of wilderness survival aspect of exploring the region. But then again, not everyone wants to play pathfinder inventory tracking, so I get it. Its really a matter of play style. In my upcomming game I may pay additional attention to such things as it will be an adaptation of Serpants Skull where as my current game was completely urban.
Conan never went shopping and the closer to that your PCs get the more fun the game is.
Oh no?
Black lotus?
Stygian?
The best?
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I usually pick up the bedroll, chalk, waterskin stuff just because it feels right, but I don't get bothered when others don't and choose to just take it for granted that the usual necessities are taken care of. Unless it's Dark Sun or something that hinges on survival skills and supply management...
Even then inventory management can get taken too far if one doesn't draw a line somewhere.
GM: You stand before the entrance of Bonestorm Castle. Distant thunder rolls across the steel gray skies overhead as the yawning portal beckons.
Paladin: Alright, let's go!
GM: Before we get started, has everyone made potty?
Paladin: This morning.
Rogue: Did it about an hour ago.
Barbarian: Taking care of it now!
Wizard: It's been a couple of days...
Paladin: Really?
Wizard: It's been a couple of bad rolls. It's no big deal, let's just go in.
GM:
Personally I'd rather leave that level of detail to GURPS.
But did the men have to make zipper rolls? I hear a botch on one of them is pretty painful. :)
Conan never went shopping and the closer to that your PCs get the more fun the game is.Oh no?
Black lotus?
Stygian?
The best?
Rat on a stick?
The drunken debauchery?
PUNCHING THE CAMEL?!
Damn right punching the camel.
The man wasn't a thief to pass the time. He need them garnets. For shopping trips.
Albeit, shopping for drugs and hoors. But shopping all the same!
My GM let's us use an "adventurer's kit." 10 gp, 10 lbs, don't really think about it much after that.
They don't clean themselves? Give them penalties to diplomacy.
They don't sleep on anything they're used to? Make them roll a fortitude save, if they fail penalize their movement by 5 for have issues with their back.
So, in game terms would you say that every person in real-world pre-industrial societies who didn't bathe regularly suffered penalties during social interaction? That doesn't make much sense to me. It's more likely that denizens of a fantasy world roughly comparable to medieval or early modern Europe would find frequent bathing strange.
Now I just thought of a prestidigtation bath to get your party clean.
You mean you don't use it for that?
As far as managing gear goes, it's all up to the Gamemaster to set the tone for the game, but it's also up to the player. I love gear management in my games, but I don't enforce it as much as a GM as I do on myself as a player. It also depends on the kind of character you play. Skills-based characters such as Rangers and Rogues require more specialized gear than fighters or wizards. Now the real pain is when GMs make wizards keep track of spell components. UGH. That's just dumb. Most of the game is based around the wizard harvesting bat guano from his bat farm.