I hope that I am reading this wrong, but it appears that the Dragon Totem rage power path essentially replaces (and improves upon) the entire Invulnerable Rager archetype. It reads (to me) that if you have all 3 Dragon Totem rage powers (achievable by 10th level), then you essentially have DR 8/--, <<Some Element>> Resistance 16, Perception and Save bonuses, and flight.
A 10th level Inv. Rager, by contrast, has DR 5/--, Endure Elements to one environmental type, and energy res 2 versus either fire or cold. And you get all that without having to give up Trap Sense (meh), or Uncanny Dogde/Improved Uncanny dodge.
I understand that the Dragon Totem path is pretty specific, and speaks for all of your rage powers up through level 10, but I can't help but feel that the Dragon Totem gets a better deal (Animal Fury and Intimidating Glare being useful in their own right). It looks like the rage power's intent may have been to scale the Enery Res only, but that isn't how it reads to me.
Thoughts?
Yeah, 1/2 your total rage power allotment in a 20 level game, or 5/6 in a 12 level game is a pretty big investment. IR can grab a lot of really potent abilities with those rage power slots.
I'm allowing my barbarian to figure he will get an extra 2DR unless someone from Paizo gives an official ruling on this. Wording is really foggy.
Well, to start, DR X/- stacks, so you can take both.
Also, are you sure that Dragon Totem Resilience gives you DR X/-? It seems to give resistance to energy in an amount equal to double the DR you get from the barbarian damage resistance feature, plus 2 for each Dragon Totem power you have, but it's horribly worded.
Also, Dragon Totem powers means you can't take Beast Totem powers, and pounce still beats super-limited-duration flight.
No, Only Totem Warrior Archetypes can take Dragon and another Beast Totem. So you can get pounce ifr you chose right archetype.
Others are limited to 1 Totem according to the book pg 26 UC.
Well, to start, DR X/- stacks, so you can take both.
Has this been errata'd? The Core book says "If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack."
Some class abilities specifically say "this damage reduction stacks with x", but unless it does, it should not stack.
Edit: Ninja'd
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Here is an interesting base for a build for 11th level.
Race: Any
Class: Barbarian
Archetypes: Invulnerable Rager and Totem Warrior
Rage Powers:
2- Lesser Beast Totem
4- Intimidating Glare
6- Dragon Totem
8- Dragon Totem Resilience
10- Dragon Totem Wings
Feats:
1- Extra Rage Power (Animal Fury)
3- [Open]
5- [Open]
7- Extra Rage Power (Beast Totem)
9- [Open]
11- Extra Rage Power (Greater Beast Totem)
This will give you:
1d8/x3 Crit Claws
+3 Natural Armor
Pounce
1d4 Bite
DR 5/- or 11/- when raging
Resist [Fire/Cold] 2 or [Energy] 22 when raging
Flight
Other bonuses to skills and saves
This assumes that the Invulnerable class ability is treated as the same as the DR class ability. Personally as a DM I don't see why this wouldn't work, it is still DR provided by the Barbarian class.
The way I read it is that your DR is considered to be two higher for the purpose of calculating your energy resistance. It does not actually give you more DR. Improved Damage Resistance only gives +1, why in blazes would they make a power that gives a better bonus to DR?
Two things, one the interpretation that Jason Ellis gives is the one i am predisposed to as well.
Second, as far as totem rage powers go, I don't see anything in the totem warrior archetype that would lead me to believe that s/he is now allowed to choose multiple totems. In fact with how bare the archetype is it kind of makes me think it's more of a flavor choice as far as what you'd like to be called (barbarian compared to totem warrior) as nothing seems to preclude normal barbarians from obtaining a totem rage power, nor does the archetype make any distinction from a typical barbarian (nothing is given for a unique ability, sans maybe in the realm of rage powers).
My apologies as the bulk of my statement was not exactly in following with the theme of the thread. I may also be missing something, and thus would be pleased if anyone could point out my error to me.
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^this. Totem Warrior isn't really an "archetype" so much as it is a decision to take Totem powers. You cannot take more than one line of totem rage powers. Nothing changes that. Therefore, you cannot make a pouncing dragon/beast totem barbarian, and selecting ANY totem power completely blocks you from selecting any from any other line.
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Two things, one the interpretation that Jason Ellis gives is the one i am predisposed to as well.
Second, as far as totem rage powers go, I don't see anything in the totem warrior archetype that would lead me to believe that s/he is now allowed to choose multiple totems. In fact with how bare the archetype is it kind of makes me think it's more of a flavor choice as far as what you'd like to be called (barbarian compared to totem warrior) as nothing seems to preclude normal barbarians from obtaining a totem rage power, nor does the archetype make any distinction from a typical barbarian (nothing is given for a unique ability, sans maybe in the realm of rage powers).
My apologies as the bulk of my statement was not exactly in following with the theme of the thread. I may also be missing something, and thus would be pleased if anyone could point out my error to me.
I thought the same thing as you about the Totem Warrior but if you read about the Totem Rage Powers on page 26 of Ultimate Combat it states:
A barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers; for example, a barbarian who selects a beast totem rage power (see the Advanced Player’s Guide) cannot later choose to gain any of the dragon totem rage powers (any rage power with “dragon totem” in its title), unless she has the totem warrior archetype.
Now it could make sense as to the increase to DR would only be applied to the effects of the Energy Resistance, but overall it is not as powerful as some think, even compared to the feat Improved DR.
The feat increases your DR by 1, but that increase is applied at all times, where as the increase from the rage power is only while raging.
Which requires at least 4 rage powers to get just a +4 bonus. And if you compare rage powers to feats they are very similar in power and the feat Extra Rage Power only gives you one rage power, thus their power level should be about the same.
I've emailed customer service for some clarity on the ability, I will post the response.
Two things, one the interpretation that Jason Ellis gives is the one i am predisposed to as well.
Second, as far as totem rage powers go, I don't see anything in the totem warrior archetype that would lead me to believe that s/he is now allowed to choose multiple totems. In fact with how bare the archetype is it kind of makes me think it's more of a flavor choice as far as what you'd like to be called (barbarian compared to totem warrior) as nothing seems to preclude normal barbarians from obtaining a totem rage power, nor does the archetype make any distinction from a typical barbarian (nothing is given for a unique ability, sans maybe in the realm of rage powers).
My apologies as the bulk of my statement was not exactly in following with the theme of the thread. I may also be missing something, and thus would be pleased if anyone could point out my error to me.
I thought the same thing as you about the Totem Warrior but if you read about the Totem Rage Powers on page 26 of Ultimate Combat it states:
A barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers; for example, a barbarian who selects a beast totem rage power (see the Advanced Player’s Guide) cannot later choose to gain any of the dragon totem rage powers (any rage power with “dragon totem” in its title), unless she has the totem warrior archetype.
Very interesting, seems that ultimate combat kind of snuck that in there as a bonus to the archetype as page 74 of the APG states that you can not take more than one. In any case thank you for pointing this out to me.
The way I read it is that your DR is considered to be two higher for the purpose of calculating your energy resistance. It does not actually give you more DR. Improved Damage Resistance only gives +1, why in blazes would they make a power that gives a better bonus to DR?if that were true they would not have placed a ; in the middle of the sentance. by doing that the use of it dictates:
** spoiler omitted **
this typically means that both are independant but related. so that you get resistnace and you get improved DR which after calculated will also effect the amount of resistance.
besides there is no reason why they worded the sentence that way. If they were making it that reistance is higher it should be worded This resistance equals double her current DR/- from her barbarian damage reduction class feature, treat her DR by 2 higher for each dragon totem rage power she possesses,including this one for the purpose of calculating the resistance.
since it does not. This would indicate DR INCREASES by 2 for each dragon totem rage power and this calculates the actual DR so DR6/- higher with all 3 feats.
By the time you have to appeal to "they used ';' instead of ','" you should realize the debate is lost. Occams razor says that they intented a ',' but pressed the wrong button and the editor didn't notice that it made the paragraph mean something different to people who really want more DR.
If you're going to argue semantics the word 'this' right after the ';' clearly indicates the DR as in the one used on the last phrase, i.e. DR for the purpose of calculating the Energy Resistance.
Now it could make sense as to the increase to DR would only be applied to the effects of the Energy Resistance, but overall it is not as powerful as some think, even compared to the feat Improved DR.The feat increases your DR by 1, but that increase is applied at all times, where as the increase from the rage power is only while raging.
Which requires at least 4 rage powers to get just a +4 bonus. And if you compare rage powers to feats they are very similar in power and the feat Extra Rage Power only gives you one rage power, thus their power level should be about the same.
I have no idea what feat you're talking about. There is a Improved Damage Reduction Rage Power, that increases you RD by +1 when raging. There is no Improved Damage Reduction Feat that I know of or on the pfsrd. Maybe in a 3rd party book, or something from 3.5, but you will have to name your sources.
Also it would be way overpower, because it wouldn't just give +4 DR, it wold also give Energy Resistance, bonuses to Perception and against three types of effects, and flight. That is a LOT.
The way it is written I find it extremely likely it is a typo and was meant to be referencing 'This resistance..' instead of 'This DR...'
The morale bonus on saves vs fear and sleep will see little use with raging giving a morale bonus on all will saves, I'd raise the save bonuses to +2 vs fear, paralysis and sleep effects and perception checks so they actually have some use.
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Saying only totem warriors can take more than one totem line is the same as saying any barbarian can, since totem warrior changes no class features, so can be combined with any other archetype.
Seems pretty clear to me.
You gain energy resistance equal to double you DR/-. For each dragon totem power you have your DR increases by 2.
So a 10th level Invulnerable Rager would have 5 DR/- then have +6 DR for with all 3 Dragon Totem powers giving them a 11 DR/- and 22 Energy Resistance for the type of Dragon Totem they chose. This only applies while raging. When not raging the Barbarian would DR 5/-.
This isn't a case of stacking because the Dragon Totem Resistance is increasing your existing DR/- not adding DR/-.
The energy resistance wouldn't stack though.
Resistance and DR are two different things. So when it say increases your DR that's DR not energy resistance. Energy resistance is calculated off you DR rating.
Saying only totem warriors can take more than one totem line is the same as saying any barbarian can, since totem warrior changes no class features, so can be combined with any other archetype.
"Totem warrior barbarians can select from the following rage powers.
Rage Powers: The totem warrior is based entirely upon his totem rage powers. In addition to the totem powers themselves, the following rage powers complement the totem warrior archtype (depending on the totem chosen): animal fury*, low-light vision*, night vision*, raging climber*, raging leaper*, raging swimmer*, and swift foot*."
Seems this archetype can be combined with any other archetype you are limiting your rage powers to the list above. It's not clear here but it sure sounds like the Totem Warrior can only select from totem powers or the those listed above.
You know there's a rage power called "Improved Damage Reduction" that gives +1 to DR and can only be taken three times, right? It's on the Core book.
Then why, why, would you believe that they would make another power tree that gives +6DR and Energy Resistance? Making the previous power useless? That is both overpowered and bad design. This isn't 3.5, guys. Give the Paizo team some credit, will ya.
Saying only totem warriors can take more than one totem line is the same as saying any barbarian can, since totem warrior changes no class features, so can be combined with any other archetype."Totem warrior barbarians can select from the following rage powers.
Rage Powers: The totem warrior is based entirely upon his totem rage powers. In addition to the totem powers themselves, the following rage powers complement the totem warrior archtype (depending on the totem chosen): animal fury*, low-light vision*, night vision*, raging climber*, raging leaper*, raging swimmer*, and swift foot*."
Seems this archetype can be combined with any other archetype you are limiting your rage powers to the list above. It's not clear here but it sure sounds like the Totem Warrior can only select from totem powers or the those listed above.
For a moment I thought you were serious, but then I had to laugh. Nice trolling, guy.
You have to be beacuse this line: "the following rage powers complement the ________ archtype", appears in all barbarian archetypes.
That's the confusing part I was talking about. It's the only archetype that says you select from the following rage powers. Then in the description say they compliment the archetype. Odd is all I can say.
You know there's a rage power called "Improved Damage Reduction" that gives +1 to DR and can only be taken three times, right? It's on the Core book.
Then why, why, would you believe that they would make another power tree that gives +6DR and Energy Resistance? Making the previous power useless? That is both overpowered and bad design. This isn't 3.5, guys. Give the Paizo team some credit, will ya.
I agree is seems over powered but that is how it is written. As well the +1 DR taken 3 time would also add into the mix too.
I think personally they didn't take the invulnerable rage into account with the design here. It's not bad with basic barbarian but with IR it's a tad over powered.
It can't get much more clear cut than
This resistance equals double her current DR/— from her
barbarian damage reduction class feature; this DR increases
by 2 for each dragon totem rage power she possesses, including
this one.
DR from your "barbarian damage reduction class feature" increases by 2 for each dragon totem rage power you possess.
But it also specifically mentions your barbarian damage reduction class feature, so an invulnerable rager would not benefit from dragon totem resilience since there DR comes from a class feature called Invulnerability.
Good catch! Now that makes sense.
A totem warrior barbarian can choose a multitude of totem powers and combine them. However, A totem warrior is limited in what rage powers they can use.
While individual totems vary, those in the tribe that call upon a totem receive similar abilities. Totem warrior barbarians can select from the following rage powers.
Rage Powers: The totem warrior is based entirely upon his totem rage powers. In addition to the totem powers themselves, the following rage powers complement the totem warrior archetype (depending on the totem chosen): animal fury*, low-light vision*, night vision*, raging climber*, raging leaper*, raging swimmer*, and swift foot*.
If your a totem warrior barbarian you may only choose from the powers listed in the Rage Powers section.
As such any barbarian can be a totem warrior but doing so limits your choice of rage powers drastically.
I removed a bunch of posts. Don't be a jerk.
Do you guys have any news on the topic?
I believe that the power Dragon Totem Resilience does not increase damage resistance (DR) at all. It only grants energy resistance.
10th level barbarian has DR 2/-
With Dragon Totem Resilience he gains Resist(energy type) 6.
With Dragon Totem Resilience and Dragon Totem he gains Resist(energy type) 8.
With Dragon Totem Resilience, Dragon Totem, and Dragon Totem Wings he gains Resist(energy type) 10.
At 13th level he will have DR 3/- and Resist(energy type) 12.
